BDC reticles

BPKHunter · Jun 21, 2007

I'm looking at a new rifle(sako) and subsequently a new scope. I am interested in a scope that can help me with the longer shots available in my new home state of Idaho. I know many brands carry their own versions. I am looking for a quality piece of glass, but not particularly german(swaro, leica, etc) due to cost.

I am looking in particular at Leupold and their three options: 1. Boone and Crocket Reticle 2. Varmint Reticle(windage dots) 3. BDC turrets for my load through their custom shop.

I was hoping to get some educated responses from users of these various systems, Leupold or others, including any pros/cons. FYI, I mentioned the gun is a Sako, but I didn't mention the caliber will be 7MM Rem Mag, using hand-loads at just around 3000fps, so no overly custom 3500fps cartridge here.

dleonard3 · Jun 21, 2007

I would recommend your third option. I love Leopold scopes, and if you give them good information, they should be able generate a very accurate BDC turret for you. I have set up BDC's on all of my rifles. It's really quite easy to do, but it might be a little technical and confusing for some. I like using a laser rangefinder to tell me the distance, then I just dial in the distance and aim in the middle of the target - it's pretty simple. Sometimes you need to cut some distance off if the angle is severe, and wind is always a concern at long range.

If you get a chance, you should watch the very educational "Beyond Belief" videos. They not only show you what is possible with a little effort, but also exactly how to set everything up and how to practice. When I bought mine, I thought the cost was a little steep, but after watching it over and over again, I've come to realize that it was worth every penny.

ktc · Jun 21, 2007

Do you have to send in your scope for the BDC? Or do you install it yourself after you provide the information?

dleonard3 · Jun 21, 2007

You provide the information, Leupold will make the turret then you install it yourself easily with three little set screws.

I would recommend sighting your rifle in to group dead center at a measured 500 yards (use your rangefinder). Then you just loosen the turret set screws and rotate the turret cap to the 500 yard mark, and re-tighten the set screws. Then check it at 100 yards to make sure it's right - you'll want to know it works before heading out to the woods. Oh ya, and don't forget to practice.....alot. Shooting long range rocks is a great way to gain confidence.

cabinfever · Jun 21, 2007

The BDC dial is the best thing since sliced bread.I highly recommend that you work up a load that will produce as close to 1/2 groups as possible before sending in your data.
dleonard3, have you found that your system is more accurate if you sight in at 500 yds and than work from there. I sighted in at 100 yds and than turned the turret to 100yds and tighten down the set screw. I have found that I'm still right on at 500 yds, 600yds......
Does anyone know if Swarovski has a BDC set up available?

Mike

dleonard3 · Jun 21, 2007

There is always a little bit of error in these BDC's due to atmospheric, ammunition, and shooter variations. I've noticed that if your zero is off a little bit at 100 yards, the BDC will be way off at the longer distances. On the other hand, if you have it dead on at the longer distances, the shorter distances are usually pretty close. Unless the data used was wrong.

ktc · Jun 21, 2007

My scope is a 5 year old 3.5-10 VariXIII. Are you sure scopes this old do not have to be sent in? Seems I read they did, but I could be wrong? I know I am a thick headed bastard.;-)

The scope removal is key. If I can leave it on my rifle I will definitely get the turret. If Leupold ever reloads their Custom Shop site.....

JimmyA · Jun 21, 2007

the biggest draw back from the bdc turrets is that they are customized for an average elevation/average temperature = they will only work for a particular hunting area. Even a slight change in elevation and average temperature will affect bullet drop tremendously.

Consider the Nightforce NXS series or the Leupold Mark IV which have "target knobs" and work on M.O.A. In addition to chosing a scope with target knobs, invest in a ballistic program which will allow you to input all of your variables, (temperature, elevation, load specifics, distance at which your scope is zeroed, velocity, etc) and print a bullet drop chart. This way you can print a drop chart based on whatever area you decide to hunt in.

Yes having to look at your pre-printed drop chart is an extra step, but when shooting long distances, every detail counts.

I have been practicing this method for about three years and feel extremely comfortable shooting out to 600 yds.

Range it, adjust target knobs according to bullet compensation drop chart, shoot

dleonard3 · Jun 22, 2007

If you have standard adjustments on your scope, then you'll have to send it in and have the target style turret installed. If I remember right it costs $75.

dleonard3 · Jun 22, 2007

JimmyA, you are right about the average, but if you correct the B.C. to something similar to what your hunting conditions will be, it should be pretty close. I also agree with using a drop chart, but it is a pain to use in the field. Most of the time, having the knob already figured out is alot more useful in a hunting situation.

Another trick is: I make tape-on BDC's for the actual conditions in the field so I can change them as needed depending on the variations. Turret adjustments can be made in the field if you have an allen wrench with you. I like to take a few "practice" shots at rocks in the actual hunting conditions to make sure I'm dead on.

cabinfever · Jun 22, 2007

JimmyA, I disagree with you on tempature and elevation. They are the smallest variable in the overall equation. Your most important factor is having a gun and a load that will produce 1/2 inch groups. From there it's all about the BC and the Muzzle volocity.

Mike

cabinfever · Jun 22, 2007

KTC, I bought a new VXIII and still had to send in my scope. Hope that answers your question.

Mike

JimmyA · Jun 22, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Jun-22-07 AT 03:49PM (MST)[p]cabinfever

I did not suggest they were the most important factors. I was only pointing out why the bdc turrets have a draw back and their limiting factors.

I do agree that the bc and velocity are extremely important, but elevation and temperatures are also variables that need to be factored into the equation.

earthman · Jun 22, 2007

JimmyA, I agree with cabinfever, i study the exbal balistic program quite a bit and am always throwing in diff elev and temps because i hunt from 7600 to 12500 and 65 to -20 and am very amazed that there is not enough significant diff to really worry about. I just used 9000 and 40 for the bdc i ordered. I'm not trying to slam you either...just puttin in my two cents

Eric

BPKHunter · Jun 22, 2007

Thanks for the great info.

Right now I doubt that I'd be attempting any shots greater than 500 yards, especially on a deer sized animal. My biggest consideration there is the size of my target, as I don't wish to take a chance that my skill and experience aren't prepared for. I do plan on putting in the time. I have spent a little time on Longrangehunting.com and I know there they generally do NOT appreciate either the BDC retice or the dial, for the same reasons you mention - enviornmental factors like temp, elev, etc. But if I'm looking at hunting Mule Deer and Elk, limiting myself to 500 yards, possibly 600 on Elk only, then how much variation can I allow myself?

Using my simple Point Blank softward, if I start with my 7mm pushing a 160gr Accubond out the muzzle at 3000 fps, and I'm practicing at my home at 3500' elevation at 80 degrees, my drop at 500 yards is 34.98" If I change my elevation to 7000' and temp down to 20 degrees, the drop at 500 yards is 34.84". Now out at 1000 yards the difference is 239.1" vs 241.0". Man that seems "statisticially insignificant" to me.

So if I go with the turret, and right now I think I want one step up from 10x magnification, so I think the 4x-14x, or nearest equiv, what model do you recommend to have the turret done on, VX-III or VXL? 40MM or 50MM? Remember, I'm hunting here.

Again, all opinions are greatly appreciated!!!

fisrtcoueswas80inches · Jun 22, 2007

I have all three... varmint reticle has been extremly accurate!!! my turrets are extremly accurate too! with the varmint reticle i killed a jack rabbit at 415 yards on my 22-250 and have hit melon sized rocks at 550 with the turrets on my 270wsm
Casey

KLL · Jun 23, 2007

What B.C. are you using??? Something seems wrong on the 1000 yds. difference, but I don't have my ballistics calculator in front of me.

Kevin

KLL · Jun 23, 2007

Wouldn't zeroing in at 500 yards put him 15 or so inches high at 300 yards? This could be a problem. Let me know if I am thinking right

Kevin

cabinfever · Jun 23, 2007

The guys from best of the west..producers of beyond belief...use a similar system as Leupolds BDC only they combine their field data with all the other variables. They also have a recticle installed with 1 MOA windage dots. I will have this on my next scope. They apparently build one of the best LR custom scopes available. They are called a huskamaw. I believe we will be hearing a lot more about these scopes in the future.

Mike

BPKHunter · Jun 23, 2007

>What B.C. are you using???
>Something seems wrong on the
>1000 yds. difference, but
>I don't have my ballistics
>calculator in front of me.
>
>
>Kevin

For my 7mm Accubonds, 160 gr BC = .531.

Is my math wrong, because this sure seemed like a statistically insignificant variable. If I'm calculating it wrong I'd love to know.

BPKHunter · Jun 23, 2007

>The guys from best of the
>west..producers of beyond belief...use a
>similar system as Leupolds BDC
>only they combine their field
>data with all the other
>variables. They also have a
>recticle installed with 1 MOA
>windage dots. I will have
>this on my next scope.
>They apparently build one of
>the best LR custom scopes
>available. They are called a
>huskamaw. I believe we will
>be hearing a lot more
>about these scopes in the
>future.
>
>Mike

Mike,

I watch "The Best of the West" religously, thanks to TIVO. I have not bot the CD series, mostly because I don't really want to build my own gun. While I don't like the show as much this year, too little John Burns and too much marketing, but I have thought about the Huskemaw, except I love the reliability of a name like Leupold and their service/warranty. I havn't priced those scopes either, but I bet they aren't cheap.

KLL · Jun 24, 2007

My program shows that at 1000 yards, the elevation difference,(3500 to 7000 feet) gives you 15 inches of drop difference. I am new to long range hunting also, so I would also like to know if i'm right or wrong!

Kevin

cabinfever · Jun 25, 2007

5000 ft change in elevation will not have a significant amount of impact on shot placement. Most of my range time was spent at 3500 ft elevation where as most of my hunting was between 7000-10000 ft in elevation. Again very little change in point of impact.

mtmuley · Jun 25, 2007

I agree with cabinfever. If you are concerned about temperature and elevation for a 500 to 600 yard shot, you are splitting very small hairs. Sierra Infinity is an excellent ballistics program that allows you to enter those variables and calculate trajectories. It also factors wind if you like. For about 30 bucks, it has become indispensable to me. mtmuley