>mulecreek, I figured you were a
>coal miner with the way
>you kept trying to take
>the discussion from oil/gas and
>direct it to underground coal...
>which is certainly not the
>most applicable form of resource
>extraction when referring to the
>Bears Ears area. It was
>obvious you have a pretty
>heavy bias in favor of
>coal mining, which I respect,
>but there aren't any current
>plans to mine for coal
>in the greater Bears Ears
>region... unlike oil/gas which is
>drilled virtually on the doorsteps
>of Bears Ears.
>
>Everything I have said has been
>factually correct and I differentiated
>between surface coal, oil, and
>gas in my posts. If
>you want to pick nits
>over the difference in surface
>coal and underground coal roayalties...
>fine, I'll concede the underground
>coal rate is lower than
>everything else. All the numbers
>I have given are for
>surface coal, oil, and gas...
>in fact, in the paragraph
>before I mentioned that federal
>royalties haven't changed since the
>1920's, which is true, I
>specifically mentioned oil companies. You
>then try and change it
>to coal and imply my
>post was incorrect even though
>surface coal is also currently
>12.5%. That is disingenuous. Do
>you also want me to
>get into offshore drilling royalties,
>because they're different too? This
>is a broad based discussion
>that can't possibly be dealt
>with by the minutia of
>all natural resources in all
>scenarios. What I have posted
>is the most factual information,
>pertaining to the most products
>(oil, gas, surface coal), and
>is most applicable to the
>Bears Ears area.
>
Everything I have stated has been in reference to coal. I never dipped into the oil pond. You are clearly jumping back and forth. I have no direct knowledge of oil and gas royalties, though I suppose I could read the same Center for Western Progress handout that you did and find out more about how oil and gas companies are ripping off the citizens of America. But to be clear since I am having a hard time following where you are going, the State royalties you stated in Post #65 do not apply to coal, regardless of mining method. Could be oil and gas, not sure but I know they are not coal.
>Please refer to my Post 38.
>You will see that the
>main concern for Bears Ears
>due to geographic proximity to
>major oil/gas fields is oil/gas,
>not coal. I don't know
>of any major current oil
>finds in Bears Ears, but
>it is certainly possible in
>the future as there is
>already drilling in very close
>proximity to Bears Ears which
>could certainly expand in that
>direction. For comparison, are you
>aware that a new oil
>field was just found in
>West Texas that is three
>times larger than the Bakken?
I am, I believe they are calling it the Cline Field.
>New technology is finding new
>oil fields every few months.
>Who's to say the pictures
>I posted in post 38
>aren't the future of Bears
>Ears if it isn't protected
>today.
>
Could be, and if that happened it would be a shame. But just because an area has gas/oil and is not under national Monument protections does not mean it has to look like that. The two scenarios are not mutually exclusive.
>As to your tax code Red
>Herring, I direct my accountant
>to pay every cent that
>I owe and not a
>penny more. I suppose the
>oil/mining companies do too. That
>is why Trump changing the
>rules to give them a
>fuzzy math loophole applies. This
>loophole can be opened or
>closed, and what amounts to
>a "fair share" is completely
>open for interpretation... one person's
>"enough" is another persons "not
>enough". There is no way
>to settle that argument which
>is why I posted in
>post 65 that you and
>I have a gentleman's disagreement
>on that.
>
>***On a side note, if I
>transferred my property from one
>entity that I control to
>another and then sold that
>property, I would have to
>pay taxes on both ends
>of the transaction. Which, after
>deducting for basis, would equal
>paying taxes on the higher
>sales price. Otherwise I would
>risk going to jail, so
>this really is a loophole
>that you and I don't
>get to exploit.***
>
Don't get me started on Taxes in regards to coal mining. Royalties and taxes are two separate and distinct things. Trust me the State and Feds are getting more than everyone's fair share in taxes when coal is taken out of the ground.
Individuals get plenty of tax deductions/benefits/loopholes that business does not and visa versa.
>I respect your opinions and posts
>and appreciate a lively discussion,
>which was hopefully informative to
>many. I'm just trying to
>stay on point here about
>Bears Ears, the payments from
>oil companies to politicians, the
>current state of disrepair of
>nearby oil fields, and the
>potential future of Bears Ears
>if we leave it in
>the hands of politicians who
>are padding their wallets from
>oil company donors. The fox
>is guarding the hen house
>on this one.
>
>Grizzly
Fair enough! I respect your opinions as well, even if they are wrong.
You brought up "games" mining companies play in regards to royalties from public land mineral extraction in Post#55 and I thought I should try to inform you as well. Hopefully you can come away with a better understanding of how the vast majority of mining on public land takes place rather than professing propaganda as truth. Both sides of this equation do plenty of fear mongering without rational people adding to it.