Bedding question - Weatherby Vanguard

[searcher]

I am looking at glas-bedding my Weatherby Vanguard 270 WSM. It is about 5-6 years old and has the factory black synthetic stock. The barrel is stainless. I have been having trouble with consistent groups. The rifle will pattern 2 shots ok but I get a flyer in every 3 shot group. Sometimes 3-4 inches and sometimes more. When I cold fire one shot, the rifle is always on so I am thinking I have a pinch point, expansion problem when the barrel heats up after the 2nd and 3rd shots. I am hoping that bedding the stock will tighten the groups. Does anyone have any experience with glas-bedding this stock / rifle who wants to share info?. I have glas-bedded one other rifle (A Ruger wood stock) with good results but I am not expert and don't want to screw up a good rifle. The weatherby stock has a lot of void space in the forearm. I was wondering if I should completely fill these areas with the bedding compound or is there some lighter material that I could use to fill the voids about 3/4 full and then bed over top of them. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Tim

 

[Cahunter805]

The factory tupperware vanguard stocks can be bedded. I would bed the recoil lug and tang of the action with devcon. Then reassemble and shoot it. Another option would be to find a used stock from a SUB-MOA as they are a b&c stock with aluminim bedding blocks. The factory vanguards stocks are known to be somewhat filmsy but you could bed it and see how it shoots. Also if you have bedded a ruger rifle the vanguard will be no problems. Much simplier to bed. Good luck.

 

[EVILNR]

I had what sounds like the same problem you have.
Mine, a MarkV Lazermark in 7mm Wby.
Would be dead on w/first shot, after that climbed
progressively high and to the left. I swapped to a
B&C Medalist stock with same results, even free floated
the barrel. Tried inumerable handloads, bullet-powder
combos, brass, primers, stock box ammo etc....
Even changed scopes and mounts.
NOTHING HELPED.
I bought a Rem.700 in .300 Winny.
Out of the box shooter with anything I feed it.
This last remmy made my 4th one, all shoot better than me.
Guess what my next gun will be?

 

[searcher]

Thanks for the reply. I have checked prices on replacement stocks and some of them are almost as much as a non-resident antelope license so I am hoping the glas-bedding does the trick.

 

[shootinfool]

For best results bed the pillars and the entire action. Bedding just the rear tang and the recoil lug still leaves a problem with the possibility of spongey pillars. Also if the forend of the stock is not very sturdy you can remove material and add bedding. It is recommended to have the barrel free floated and this can be done with the adding of the bedding(for strength and stiffness) in the barrel channel. Also most bedding jobs extend anywhere from 1 inch to 2 1/2 inches up the barrel, past the action. hope this helps. Not sure of what specifics you need.

 

[REDDOG]

>I had what sounds like the
>same problem you have.
>Mine, a MarkV Lazermark in 7mm
>Wby.
>Would be dead on w/first shot,
>after that climbed
>progressively high and to the left.
>I swapped to a
>B&C Medalist stock with same results,
>even free floated
>the barrel. Tried inumerable handloads, bullet-powder
>
>combos, brass, primers, stock box ammo
>etc....
>Even changed scopes and mounts.
>NOTHING HELPED.
>I bought a Rem.700 in .300
>Winny.
>Out of the box shooter with
>anything I feed it.
>This last remmy made my 4th
>one, all shoot better than
>me.
>Guess what my next gun will
>be?


You ready to sell that POS lasermark to me yet?

 

[RELH]

Pillars are normally not needed in the vast majority of Sny. stocks, but should be added in a wood stock. The reason for this is that a Sny. stock will normally never compress, like a wood stock will over time due to the torque applied to the receiver screws. Wood will swell and shrink depending on moisture in the air, Sny. material will not.

I would glass bed the intire receiver to a point of 1-2 inches in front of where the barrel screws into the receiver and make sure the rest of the barrel is free floating and not touching the stock where you can slip a sheet of typewriter paper down the full lengh of the barrel until you reach the bedding area.

If free floating will not decrease the group size, then you should try to add a pressure bedding point about 1 inch back from the tip of the forearm. You are looking for about 8 pounds of pressure at this bedding point. Some rifles need this pressure point to dampen vibrations and decrease group size, most barrels will prefer free floating.

In all the rifles I have bedded, 90 % perferred free floating, the other 9% needed a pressure point in the forearm. Then there is that darn 1% that will crop up that required the receiver and the intire barrel lenght to be glass bedded for full contact. I only had one rifle that required that. It went from 1-3/4 inch groups to 3/4 inch groups after full bedding.

If you try these metholds, and it still will not shoot. You have either done a poor bedding, or the darn barrel is no good.

There is more to doing a good bedding job then just sticking the action in the goop, after putting release agent on the action-barrel. You have to be sure you do not cause a binding or torque problem with the action or recoil lug. There is web sites on how to do a proper bedding. I would check at lease several of them to learn all the tricks before you bed that action.

RELH

 

[searcher]

Thanks for all the replies. I will check some other websites for more info. I do want to do a good job. I like this rifle, it just seems like it could be more consistent.

Tim

 

[hntbambi]

I have to disagree that "most" synthetic stocks do not need pillars. The vast majority are injection molded stocks that need pillars as much as a wood stock. The action area is not strong enough like a good lay-up stock to properly support the action. Even the top shelf synthetics like Manners and McMillan recommend pillar bedding. This is for consistent repeatable accuracy. You can remove the barreled action from the stock, put it back in and torque and it will not change the POI.

Also when floating the barrel, the gap between the barrel and forend will need to be larger than just clearance for a piece of paper, for an injection molded stock. The forend is not strong enough to support the recoil so it acts like it is not bedded at all when the harmonics go down the barrel. I gap mine at least .065" and sometimes up to .100 if the barrel is still hitting. It does not look as good, but it's an injection molded stock, I don't care. To me, performance is valued higher than astetics.

 

[RELH]

Gee! I wished that I had known that before I bedded all those Sny. stocks without pillars. I might have gotten quarter inch groups instead of the 3/8 to 1/2 inch groups I did obtain with shilen barrels, and slightly larger with some factory barrels.

Just how much torque do you apply that it will have a "crush" effect on the Sny. material.

I made my statement based on actual experience of doing it and seeing the results. Are you making it based on what some manufactor is telling you in order to sell you their product at a higher price?

I do not understand your statement about the forearm supporting the recoil. The forearm does not support the recoil as that is done by the area surrounding the recoil lug. the forearm is jsut a place to hang onto the rifle with unless you have a major magnum rifle, as in elephant rifles, that carries a secondary recoil lug area in the forearm as was done to wood stocks to prevent cracking the stock behind the primary recoil lug

RELH

 

[Timberbuck]

As the rifle is 5-6 old you should give it a good cleaning to remove all traces of copper as well as looking at the bedding.

 

[searcher]

Good point on the copper cleaning. I will do that. I got the bedding kit in the mail today and I hope to work on bedding the stock this weekend. Now here is a really dumb question. I looked at several websites and downloaded pages of instructions. Most say to remove the scope and mounts. Why? Is this just to keep from getting goop on the scope or some other reason? I did not remove the scope on the other rifle I glas-bedded and I seemed to get good results. Another question, some of the instructions said to undercut grooves into the sides of the synthetic stock as the glas may not adhere well to the synthetic material and the grooves will fill up with the glas goop and help lock the bedding to the synthetic stock. Is this necessary? I talked to a guy who glass bedded a Browning A-Bolt and did not undercut anything and he seemed to get good results.

 

[RELH]

I would remove the scope and mounts to allow better access on handling the barrel-action. Also why take a chance of messing up a good scope.

As for cutting groves, that is only mentioned due to most injected stocks have a very smooth finish coat on the inside of the stock. You do not have to cut grooves, but I would rough up that smooth surface to allow better grip for the epoxy compound.

Also be sure your action screw holes do not fill up with compound and act as a secondary recoil lug, they need to be free and not touching.

I would also put a thin layer of tape on the bottom and sides of the recoil lug and the front. This will allow enough free room to remove and replace the action in the future and may prevent a binding action that will not produce good groups.
You want the rear of the recoil lug to have full even contact with the epoxy. Same with the bottom and sides of the receiver and bottom of the tang.

Glass bed the trigger guard group as well and when you tighten the screws, do not over tighten that may cause binding or flexing of the action.

Put one coat of release agent on all parts that will contact the epoxy, let dry and apply second coat for insurance. If possible remove the trigger group or tape it up to prevent epoxy from getting into it. If there is any holes in the receiver that is below the stock line, plug them with clay to prevent epoxy from getting into the hole and pinning the action to the stock.

RELH

RELH

 

[searcher]

Thanks RELH - sounds like good advise. I hope to put 3 shots thru 1 hole the next time I shoot my Vanguard

 

[RELH]

Good luck. You have a very good chance of seeing good groups with that Vanguard. The factory rifle and barrels I mention above about getting good groups with were Howa 1500 barrel-actions and they make the Vanguard for Weatherby.

RELH

 

[searcher]

Well, I finally got around to shooting my Vanguard 270 WSM after the glas-bedding job. This really tightened up my groups and no more fliers so I am definitely pleased with the improvement in the groups. I was not shooting premium ammo so I I hope to get even better performance after a good cleaning and switch to premium ammo. Thanks to everyone who provided comments and suggestions.

Tim

 

[RELH]

Sounds like you did a good job and received the results you were looking for.

In testing rifles for accuracy with factory ammo, I got my best luck with Federal Supreme ammo over other brands most of the time.

RELH