Big Changes In G&F Fees

[AZStickman]

As posted by Dave Myrick on the AZ Bowsite Forum:

Could be some big changes coming with the tag and license price structure! Possibly making some hunts a lot more expensive and creating a premium hunt structure that cost more.....yea, the Sept. archery bull hunts would be a premium price hunt. Link to Game and Fish Website is below. Check out the power point presentation and the hand out. Meetings have already started and the Phoenix meeting is this Monday.
http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/licenses_newFees.shtml

Phoenix meeting: Monday, May 20th, 6:00pm, Ben Avery Game and Fish.

 

[AZStickman]

My comment to G&F
I adamantly oppose your proposed fee structure. For several years the department has been promoting the desire to increase opportunity for hunters and anglers. Now with the proposed restructuring of fees and the addition of premium hunts you are pricing the common man out of the recreational opportunity hunting and fishing represents. All this at a time when most Arizona families have been negatively impacted financially by the housing collapse and recession and are just now beginning to show weak signs of recovery.

If you truly believe in providing more opportunity to hunters and anglers, and have any compassion for the financial hardships Arizonans as a whole have and are continuing to experience, this is not the way to go.

This is an embarrassment and shows just how out of touch the department truly is with its constituency. Please go back to the table and come up with a better proposal than this.

 

[Boskee]

I would certainly hope that those working on this would move the early archery elk hunts start back into the I week later starting dates structure. They moved us up 1 week and if they're going to charge premium prices they need to give us a hunt equal to the early rifle and muzzy hunts. Both of those hunts are closer to the rut while the majority of the archery hunt is prerut.

 

[lefty1]

i wouldn't mind a tag fee increase, maybe then less people would put in, thus giving me a better chance at a tag.as for liscense increases, bing it on, got both lifetime hunting and fishing licsenses.

 

[DonMartin]

The license meeting will be here in Kingman on Thursday from 6-8 p.m.

I was at the presentation that G&F made to the Commission a couple of weeks ago when they were here for the Commission meeting.

Some of it I liked (juniors licenses dropped to $5)but at that time I advised the Commission to get ready; that the archery community wasn't going to buy into the premium elk business.

I don't care for the premium deer feature either on units north of the River.. Why shouldn't the average Joe have a chance to get a tag north of the ditch at a reasonable price? Let's not make hunting only a rich man's game, even when dealing with a so called "premium" hunt. I know $100 doesn't seem like much to many folks, but for a lot of AZ residents, these are serious times.

I'm going to the meeting and see the presentation once again.

I am concerned about the prices being raised a lot in some cases-- at a time when most blue collar folks are still reeling (no pun intended) in this Obama inspired economy.

Going to be interesting for sure!

Don Martin
AWO

 

[tooele]

If they are going to charge premium prices, it better be a premium hunt:

1. No cow tag hunters during the hunt
2. True premium archery dates (1 week later)
3. Reduced tags including archery and late season rifle hunts in order to boost quality back to what it used to be.

Otherwise I strongly disagree with charging a premium price for a non-premium hunt.

T

 

[Bombardeer]

LAST EDITED ON May-22-13 AT 04:00PM (MST)[p]The hippies are taking over your state too huh?

Here in NV we force non-residents to take out a second mortgage if they draw an elk or a sheep tag ($1,400). Quite the jaw dropper....

Paying a little extra for the hunting license just to apply for tags isn't all that bad, but it would by quite the bummer if they bumped the NR elk tags in AZ to $1,000.

I know UT charges a little more for their limited entry tags, but nothing like this...

 

[105Coues]

>i wouldn't mind a tag fee
>increase, maybe then less people
>would put in, thus giving
>me a better chance at
>a tag.as for liscense increases,
>bing it on, got both
>lifetime hunting and fishing licsenses.
>


WOW! all about me!!!! what about your future generations. It will surely affect them as well as hunting for everyone in the future. The arguement of less people putting in was made the last couple of fee increases and didn't make any difference.
IMHO mismanagement of funds could be corrected to make up for some of the revenue losses.
For example, Stocking Rainbow lake with taxpayer money when the whole shoreline with the exception of the boat ramp is private???? How does that make sense?
Another is the expense of OHV officers, I say ticket the heck out of people that are tearing up ground and being a public nuisance but stop funding the harrassment of law abiding citizens just to make sure they paid the OHV 25 tax.

 

[prescottwizard]

I notice that G&F state that 25 Sportmans Organizations support this bill. By chance are these the same so called " Sportsmans Organization " that supported the no baiting law that was passed under the cover of darkness.

I would like to see the names listed of these " Sportmans Organization " that supported this current bill. They claim that 25 were in favor...... then list them. Would really like to see how many are really from Arizona and how many from another state.

 

[AZ8]

LAST EDITED ON May-23-13 AT 10:47PM (MST)[p]Just for clarification, when they said those groups supported the bill, it was for the initial bill from a couple months ago to simplify the fee structure. Not the proposal presented at the meetings this week.

 

[DonMartin]

I just got back from the G&F meeting here in Kingman. The groups that supported this bill are listed on their website.

 

[AZ4life]

LAST EDITED ON May-23-13 AT 11:06PM (MST)[p]I was at the Kingman meeting as well.

Here they are:
? Arizona BASS Federation Nation
? Arizona Bowhunters Association
? Arizona Deer Association
? Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society
? Arizona Elk Society
? Arizona Flycasters Club
? Arizona Outdoor Sports,Inc.
? Arizona Sportsmen for
Wildlife Conservation
? ArizonaWildlife Federation
? The Bass Federation
? Desert Christian Archers
? Desert Fly Casters
? Mogollon Sporting Association
? Mohave Sportsman Club
? Mule Deer Foundation
? NationalWildTurkey Federation AZ
? Northern Arizona Flycasters
? Safari Club International ? AZ Chapter
? Sportsmen?s Constituent Group
? Trout Unlimited ? GilaTrout Chapter
? Trout Unlimited ? Old Pueblo Chapter
? Trout Unlimited ? Zane Grey Chapter
? White Mountain Fly Fishing Club
? YumaValley Rod and Gun Club

http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/documents/SB1223brochure_rev_130314.pdf

 

[DonMartin]

I think there were about 17 people who attended, not counting all the G&F folks.

Thought it was a good meeting, Dept. people explained the concepts in detail.

Here are my OPINIONS about some of the items that were addressed tonight. These are just my opinions; so don't hammer me and call me names, etc. Keep it civil. We all have opinions and I'll respect yours even if I don't agree with you.

I personally like the $5 juniors license concept, but think that juniors elk and deer tags ought to be the same, $25. And I like that youth will be defined as from 10-17 years old, and I'm OK that licenses are required for kids ages 10 and up as long as they are just $5. Remember these will be combo licenses, good for hunting and fishing. That's a deal. That is the price of one movie compared to a year in the outdoors.

I think I like the idea that a license is good for 365 days from when you buy it.

Don't care for the "premium" deer and elk proposals, but IF the majority of AZ sportsmen support them, I think that the units that are managed as "alternative management units" for deer, and not all units north of the ditch, should have the premium designation.

I was surprised to hear the NR that attended the meeting tonight say that he wouldn't mind paying $700 for a Premium deer tag! I suspect that he doesn't realize that just because the price is raised to $500, that is NOT going to improve his odds. Sure some may drop out, but for those seeking a deer tag north of the ditch, G&F won't have any trouble having lots and lots of applicants who will gladly fork over $500 for a Strip tag.

Now when those same NR guys get that early Kaibab tag, and according to G&F, 80% of the bucks taken on that hunt are 1,2, or three years old, hardly seems worthy a Premium designation does it?

On the same token, do you as an Arizona resident think that a 2 X 2, or small 3 X 3 is worth $100 for a tag? Nah, you can get those in Unit 16A...ok you used too.

Don't care for the elk "premium" designation either. But again IF the majority of AZ sportsmen are for it, look at the four units that have alternative management designations now, make Unit 1, 23, 9 and 10 as your Premium units.

While folks back east probably think ALL Arizona elk units are "Premium" it is way out of line to designate 25% of ALL of Arizona's tags as "Premium".

Here is another item that was of interest to me. I got to wonder how the NR sportsman will feel about paying $160 for their NR hunting license ($151.25 now) which will also come with all those added fishing perks??

The Dept. said these new increases could raise about $3.5 million, which they say they is about what they are short on balancing their budget.

There have been no raises in tags/licenses since 2007.

For sportsmen that are fortunate to be still working, I suspect these increases won't stop them from staying in the "game".

But G&F needs to also consider those folks who are on fixed incomes and are living close to the belt as it is, especially when Obama Care kicks in (sorry just couldn't resist) as if these "conceptual increases" become reality, it could be a problem.

Oh, my feeling on the premium thing is that I think everyone, regardless of their age/and/or economic status, should have a shot at applying for a "trophy" tag. Game in AZ is held in the public trust, not just for those that are fortunate enough to have enough money where a $100 or $200 is not a big deal. But what about the 24 year old working man, with a wife and two small kids, a house payment, truck payment all all that goes with it. Wildlife belongs to him as much as it belongs to the CEO of a company.

Don't price him out of the "game" just because of his economic status.

One item brought up was that these concepts virtually address every aspect of hunting/fishing. No stone is left unturned. From the application fee to tags and licenses, all of these things are the subject of possible changes.

Again the Dept. has had no increases of tags/licenses since 2007 so maybe some kind of increase is justified.

Truly nice that the Dept. and Commission are seeking input from you, their constituency before they come out with a final decision.

Rather than wait and complain later on, get involved in this process and let them know how you feel.

Whatever happens will start on January 1, 2014. The time is now to offer input.

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

 

[Gator]

Good stuff right there, Thanks Don.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[105Coues]

Well written Don. It Burns my butt that AZ is headed towards pricing out the citizens when the wildlife belongs to the people of the state. It is bad enough the Forest Service is doing their best to keep citizens out or make them pay at the door. All the while contracting out campgrounds that they can't seem to make money on??? I do understand costs go up to do business as usual but still feel they could make better use of the money they have.
Like any Govt. agency, restructuring never happens and wasteful spending always prevails.

One Note: If the Game and Fish are hurting for cash, why did they build a new office headquarters????? I don't generally plan on a new house when I am struggling to pay the bills I have.

 

[Boskee]

I agree with many of your points Don like usual.

105Coues, Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
The AZGFD moved because they outgrew the facility and they were leasing it at the time. The new facility was built on Ben Avery Shooting Range on land that they own. To the best of my knowledge If I remember correctly the buildings were built with donors funds for the majority of the cost. They also built a large service facility so they could service state owned vehicles to help defer some of the cost of upkeep and help create cash flow.

Initially they had the luxury of the Heritage fund monies when built to help allocate other funds for projects that benefitted the sportsman and all Arizonan's. The state has swept Heritage funds from them on numerous occasions and that in reality was to be their money but large chunks of that money was taken by the state to help with the budget deficit. At one point the AZGFD had to go to court because the legislature was trying to take some of their license and tag fees which legally is protected for them. I think they prevailed on that but when the state takes away millions from you that you had allocated for projects it creates issues.

The AZGFD doesn't operate on a profit as many people think and they have to use their funding. Yes they receive Pittman Robertson funds & outside matching funds on some projects and some grant funding but in many cases those types of funds are one shot type deals not a continuous source of funds. Many of these type projects require study's and there is some pretty extensive guidelines to meet to qualify. These types of projects require them to have monies into the project to obtain federal funding. In effect if they don't have the funding to meet the criteria they lose out on the project. Many of these projects have deadlines or funding ceilings and if the funds and criteria aren't met we have to eat those costs until they have funding for the project in the future.

I hope this helps clarify things a bit but we have to remember that those pickups and many other cost have increased so in that regard an increase is in order. Also bear in mind that they're selling fewer antelope, sheep and 35,000++ deer tags as a result of the 10+ year drought cycle we've had. So while it seems easy from where we sit we have to realize that many times they don't fill a vacant position in the field or in their offices because of funding issues. That doesn't mean they couldn't manage some things better to save money as with all state agency's but it's not as easy as we would like either.

 

[105Coues]

Thanks for the input. If they built with donated funds on property they owned that was not purchased with funds generated by sportsman, then I am impressed. That would represent a very responsible approach. However, I had thought it was a big expense for the dept and that it was just the first thing that came to mind when trying to make a point that they could manage funds better. I grew up in AZ and realize times change but it troubles me to think future generations are going to be priced out or locked out of the beautiful landscape of AZ.

BTW We can all manage our funds better.

 

[jodog]

How about ALL AZDG&F employees take a pay cut ? From the top on down.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

Boskee,

Hey, never let facts get in the way of a good roasting. ;-)


TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[quest]

This is the same thinking across most western states raise the fees on everyone. They need to cut back just like everyone else has too...

 

[zukicrazy]

Its all about the money ,and not about the game anymore why do they need 50,000 trucks when some areas dont even have working catchments anymore
.

 

[DonMartin]

Remember guys, there has NOT BEEN A RAISE ON HUNTING/FISHING LICENSES AND TAGS in Arizona SINCE 2007.

Wonder how many other states can duplicate that. If so, let's hear about them.

Hey I don't like increases either, but I know for a fact their insurance costs have went up, so is their mandatory putting funds in retirement accounts ( up over 90%) and the costs of helicopter time has gone from $400 and hour to $1100. And for anglers, the costs of stocking fish has really done up too.

No I think that as government agencies goes, the AZ G&F Dept. does a darn good job in MOST areas.

But then again, that is just my opinion.

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

 

[Tomichi]

2 Questions? From a NR.
1. The 2012 Class G we buy to apply will it go up?
2. Will Dec White Tail hunts be Premium?
I have no problem with a $1000 archery tag. Steep but is worth it.
I feel the same about the Dec WT at $500.

AZ has a pretty good gig going right now. With the 2 permanent points, Hunter safety and loyalty.
And it takes 8 points to draw the Dec WT tag, that's 6 years of the $152.25 Class G before I hunt Coues.
6 x 152.25= 913.50 + $300 is $ 1213.50 for a NR to hunt December Coues. $1513.50 if it goes Premium.
And I get to go on this hunt every 6 to 7 years.

2 permanent elk points and 23 taking 17 NR now to draw. 15years x the 152.25 is $2283.75
+ The proposed 1000 makes an NR archery tag $3283.75
Fun game we are playing isn't it?

 

[DonMartin]

Yes, the December whitetail tags only would be designated premium.

I've seen posts here from guys who always archery hunt the units that don't get a lot of ink in the press and they all seem to get big bulls.

One just has to dig a little deeper to find out what these areas are.

Same with the whitetail hunts. I've spoken to a number of G&F folks who believe that November Coues hunt may be the best one. Don't know that for a fact as I don't hunt 'em in December as it conflicts with my sheep hunts.

If you are an archery there are always over the counter tags for whitetails in January, and there are areas you can hunt elk with few points.

There are big bulls in probably every unit in AZ, but some like Unit 16A, just don't have a lot of them. But if you are looking just to hunt elk, that opportunity is there.

Again, I'm not a a Department shill, but just saying what I've been told.

I personally think that all juniors deer and elk tags should be the same, $25.

I hope other sportsmen and women feel the same and give their opinion on this and other department "concepts" to G&F.

Youth are indeed the future of all outdoor recreation and the Dept. and Commission needs to be really proactive in getting kids in the "game".

Looks to me like they are trying though.

There is a heck of a lot of information out there. Go to [email protected] or www.azgfd.gov/license simplification to look at all of it or to send in your comments.

Sportsmen are notorious for been apathetic when it comes to stuff like this. We tend to sit back, complain but don't get actively involved.

Here is your chance. Get involved.

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

 

[quest]

LAST EDITED ON May-29-13 AT 11:15PM (MST)[p] They can spin this anyway they want but no matter how you look at it, it's a bad idea! You notice they didn't raise the licence cost up too much to keep those who have already been applying for years to keep applying. Look how they make it seem like your getting a break! This is just one example...Antelope - NR Current Fee is $477.50 Old Cap $630 Conceptual Fee $550. They make it look as if they wanted $630 for NR Antelope they could have gotten it at the old cap, like they're going to give you a break at the lower cost if you go along with their plan.

 

[excaliber]

If they adopt the 365 day or year long license, Will we be able to use one license to apply for two drawing years like we currently do in Utah?

How about pulling a couple tags out of the NR 20% bonus pools for us NR hunters with less than max points? That way we have a chance at a tag while we chase the 20% group. Currently it's like they are holding a carrot in front of us but we can never reach it.

Raising the NR Elk tag price to $1,000.00 is a pretty big jump but it's inline with UT and NV. I can see that premium price for the better Units (1,9,10,23) but not any of the other units.

 

[javihammer]

It is snooze or lose time fellas. Arizona Game and Fish has asked for comments and it takes only a few minutes to let them know your thoughts. The premium hunt structure will be a disaster if it is implemented in any form.

Details

http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/licenses_newFees.shtml

Here is a link to the powerpoint presentation concepts...

http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/documents/LSSF Public Outreach Presentation.pdf

Here is the email where comments are being accepted

[email protected]

Be a player not a spectator....a couple minutes now could save you lots of time and money in the future.

Ryan

 

[Apatkelley]

I don't like the premium tag fee idea. I understand that fees haven't gone up in several years, so raise the prices slightly across the board, but don't change the entire concept. I lived in AZ all my life until two years ago and had to move because of work. I'm up to 14 bonus points for elk and the unit I like to hunt and own property in is one they are calling premium. I just feel like I'm going to end up with the short end of the stick after waiting patiently for many years. I did send them an email expressing my opinion but don't hold out much hope that they will see it my way. Maybe I should have taken a decent tag when I could have???

 

[Zim]

I am not wild about the proposed fee increase, especially since I'll be paying for a unit 1 NR archery elk tag next year. However, it does beat the hell out of last year's alternative of HB2072. I expect that is a reason the sportsmen's constituent group supports it?

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