Broadhead accuracy question

[MikeLonsford]

I am a beginner archer and have only shot field points in the last few months. I got a target to shoot broadheads into and tried it out. I was trying a couple different ones to see what might shoot better for me. I tried a muzzy and a thunderhead both shot about an average of 3.5" to the right of my field points at 30 yds. Field points group excellent, broadheads not so much (still in a kill zone but I'm surprised at the difference). Is this normal that the blades shoot to the right or different in any case? I made the note for my windage adjustment so I can switch back and forth. The bow is "papertuned" and with fieldtips, I normally shoot within 4" diameter at 30 yds (usually with 2" groupings as I float around the target). Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[BOHNTR]

Mike:

This is VERY common and with only 3.5" difference, it's also not too shabby IMO. Very few broadheads will fly EXACTLY like field points. Some will argue this point, but in college I conducted that exact experiment with a shooting machine and could not find one broadhead that flew the same.

Of course that was quite some time ago and broadheads have become better since then. However, I have the conducted these same experiments with newer heads and found similar results. Some shot VERY close to field points at 1.5". I can tell you most archers will not notice this difference and swear they are hitting the exact spot, as human interferance is involved instead of a shooting machine.

To further complicate the matter, heads will generally group differently for archers depending on how the bow is set-up. (weight shot, draw length, speed, etc.) ALL become a factor at some point.

I have recently found that the Wac'em heads were as close to my field points as I could find (1.5" at 30 yards) with the machine. That's pretty darn good. The Magnus Stingers were about the same. However, both are pricy as a result.

If you like the heads you're shooting and they fly consistent, I would simply move your pins to sight them in. Personally, I have two sets of pins....one for broadheads and one for field points. Depending on what I am shooting (3D's or animals) I simply change them out when needed.

I hope this helps and have some fun sighting in. Good luck.

BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[jims]

I had that same problem last year when I switched from field tips to broadheads. I was shooting great groups with my thunderheads but they were about an inch right of field tips at 20 yards. It was getting close to the season so I moved my pins and from that time on just shot my broadheads.

I didn't have a broadhead target so did quite a bit of shooting in a pit. I also took out the blades and the broadhead almost shot exactly like with blades in....so I could shoot in the same bails as field tips. You may try shooting with and without blades in to see what happens with different broadheads if you want to continue shooting at a range with bails.

As outlined above there are so many factors that go into broadheads shooting differently than field tips that I would try shooting broadheads almost exclusively when it comes close to hunting season.

 

[30_378shtr]

I have been playing with my broadheads lately as well. I found my heads were doing the same thing. However, I found an excellent tuning guide on Easton Archery's website. I followed their advice and increased the poundage of my bow. For some reason with the broadheads attached the arrow acted as if it were too stiff spined. AND the correction worked! Now, my broadheads are flying great. Give it a try and let me know if it works. Good luck.

 

[MikeLonsford]

As I have continued to shoot the broadheads (muzzy's only today), I found that I need to have a broadhead that has the blades line up with the fletches to have consistent accuracy, if they don't line up then they weren't grouping. When I changed a head so the blades and fletches lined up they then grouped with the others. This is still offset from my fieldpoints, but at least the blades are together. Or at least the ones that survived. I fried 3 arrows (2 at 30yds, 1 at 40yds) temporarily (1 bent blade, 2 cut fletch). When you guys shoot broadheads, do you only shoot one at a time or two or three before pulling them out of the target? I was shooting 3, then 2, maybe 1 is the answer.

378, I know I am tuned, but for field points only, I found a link to the same site and am going to follow up and verify I'm tuned with broadheads. I'm also going to pick up some Wac'em's and see how they do. I am guessing for home tuning you need a wood frame and some paper?

Last item is I also noticed a big elevation difference out at 50 yds, about 5" high, they were barely high at 40 (2") and right on closer. Don't know what that was about.

Thanks for anymore thoughts.
Mike

 

[BOHNTR]

Mike:

When I shoot broadheads (which is generally all the time) I shoot 3 arrows at different spots in ranges from 30 to 70 yards (target only). It saves my arrows and vanes dramatically.

Not disputing your success today by any means, but indexing your vanes to line up with the blades has no effect on your groupings and/or accuracy. Now with that being said, if it's working for you and builds your confidence, keep doing it. Maybe before too long, we'll be seeing some photos of some monster critter you arrowed this year. Have fun.

BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[MikeLonsford]

The indexing of fletch and blades was odd. I had several arrows grouping nicely and a couple that weren't. The off arrows were consistent in their own hit area, when I compared them to the others and that (the offset between blade and fletch) was the only thing I physically noticed. So I tried it and it worked. Both three times bad, then three times good. Maybe it was a breeze, maybe luck. I'll take whatever works. I'll be happy with any elk with horns with the bow for now.

Thanks Again
Mike

 

[Lien2]

Hi Mike -
I do the same as BOHNTR when target shooting. I shoot 3-4 arrows at different spots on the target. I pick a different mark or color, and concentrate on it. It saves on ruining arrows and helps with "picking a spot" when you don't have a bullseye to look at.
I also believe that lining up blades and fletchings doesn't do anything. But you are not the first person that has said this. If it works for you, keep doing it. With that said, I don't have an explanation for why your arrows were doing what they were?
Oh yeh, I only use feild points after I get a new bow or sight. When I get them close I switch to broadheads and shoot those exclusively, keeps me from going through what you are.
Keep shooting and good luck this fall!

Lien2

 

[COLO3D]

When comparing how broadheads fly vs. field points it is important to note the difference in the length of the points. This has an impact on the FOC balance of an arrow. This is one of the major factors that contributes to the difference in flight and impact point.

My broadheads, Gold Tip Centurions, hit 1" low of my field points for every 10 yards shot i.e 2" low at 20, 6" low at 60. The last two years I have shot these heads I have done two different things to correct that. First I bumped my rest up a very small amount, this worked very well. Second I shoot a moveable sight so I just moved my indicator pin. I felt that I had better results with the first one as I feel that it actually corrected the problem while tha second just put a band aid on it.

My wifes Muzzys last year were different enough that we completely resighted her bow for broadheads. We bought her some 85 grain Magnus Stingers this year which are supposed to fly more like a field point. Hopefully that is true.

 

[c3]

Over the years I've also never found a bow, arrow, fixed blade broadhead that would shoot right in with field points either.

The indexing of vanes and blades really doesn't have any effect, but what might be happening is that by doing so you rotate the arrow relative to the nock such that they are grouping better. Another possibilty is if you actually rotate the insert in an aluminum arrow you could be trueing it up and thus the better impact.

BOHNTR have you played with fingers, arrow offset (centershot), plunger tension and field point/BH tuning? I've been able to come pretty close with fingers by adjusting the centershot and plunger tension to get bh's and field points to "line up" between 20 and 40 yards. They go out at 60 yards or so though

Cheers,
Pete

 

[elkaddiction]

I have found slick tricks will shoot exactly with field tips in every bow I've every tried them out of. Last week I was shooting them out to 65 yds out of 2 different bows! I've also found the wacem's to do pretty close to the the same( at 65 yds the groups may have been a 2-3" inches low--I intend to weigh them to see if perhaps they are not a little heavier). Stingers shoot right with field tips out of one of my bows out to long range, but the other shoots a an inch high and to the left out of my back up bow at only 20yds. Ironhead 100s also shoot with my field tips out of both bows. On the other hand, these bows which are paper tuned shoot other broadheads as follows: muzzys and thuderheads shoot about 3" to the right (surpizingly the muzzy practice heads are right on), Rocky Supremes shoot 3" high and to the right out of one bow and 8" high out of another! The bottom line, is you've got to spend the time testing. Rocky will sell you single heads for this purpose so as to save some $. If your budget is small get some slick tricks if you have the engergy for a 4 blade head. Otherwise, spend the $ necessary to do some testing. I believe you will be time an money ahead to start with a properly tuned bow, and to be very very mindful of your form. In my experience, form can have a significant effect when shooting broadheads! With my deer, elk and hog hunts this season, I plan to shoot slick trick, wacems, ironhead 100s and stingers just to compare performance. Because these heads shoot with my field tips, I can't imagine going through the hassle of sighting in for a different head.

 

[quickdrawkinker]

I have to second the suggestion to try Slick Trick's. Super accurate head. Out of curiousity, what kind of fletching do your arrows have? Is it safe to assume they're atleast 4" long and either offset or helicle? Also, what kind of rest are you shooting? The best setup that I've found for fixed heads is the combination of a Whisker Bisquit rest and 4" helicle veins. However, I got the Slick Tricks to fly well even with my target arrows that have 2" straight veins! Not that I would recommend that type of set up, just goes to show that they are super accurate. As a side note I just ordered a couple packs of the Stinger's to try out--I have to try everything atleast once some things twice! Good luck this year.

 

[MikeLonsford]

I shoot with 4" offset right fletches and with a fall away rest (trophy taker). Also, my archery shop told me to shoot the **** vein down but I saw BOHNTR said on a similar link that they should be up for that rest. I don't believe I've had any issues with clearance but that's interesting. I don't think it would mess up my set up at all to turn the arrows over.

JIMS
I talked to my uncle last night and he said the same thing about shooting without the blades in. I might be trying that also, I'm just a bit paranoid and until I'm positive the arrows act the same way (only shooting will tell) I'd rather be sure of the accuracy and have the blades in. But if they shoot the same that sounds like a good way to save on destroying arrows.

One thing I've definitely learned is to practice with the broadheads on the arrows. I don't know why, but I thought there wouldn't be much difference between practice tips and broadheads. The tips were good to get the form and process down I guess, but not the whole enchilada. I want to be sure the arrows go where I point, so I'll be sure to use the broadheads during practice. Thanks for all the ideas.

Mike

 

[MikeLonsford]

so tonight I had limited time shooting, but I shot the Thunderheads tonight. They seemed great. I only shot about 15 times from 30-50 yards. All were right where I wanted them. I'm still using my sight offset from the original fieldpoints by 3.5" but these were all good. I'm kind of disappointed, I wanted the Muzzy's to perform this way. Maybe they will, I'll keep working on them. From what I can see the Muzzy's look like they'd hold together a lot better. But accuracy has to be the main thing.

Has anyone had particularly good or bad experiences with either? It looks like the Thunderheads could come apart fairly easy.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[c3]

I've had the same experience with Muzzy's. The bulk of their weight is way up front in the chisel point and they really act differently than a field point.

With all my set ups, the muzzy's took a radically different tune than field point to fly well. Many other great broadheads don't have as big of a problem with this.

Thunderheads being one of those. If they are working well with only a slight adjustment to your sight, I'd stick with them. Thunderheads have proven themselves over the years, they are a good head that you can't go wrong with.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[MBM]

Try moving your rest to the right or turn your bow poundage down a 1/2 a turn. If you are right handed and your broadheads are hitting right then you are getting a Weak Spine Reaction. Check out http://www.eastonarchery.com/downloads/ and down load the tuning guide and it will explain broadhead tuning in detail. Also make sure that your broadhead is spining straight. Any wobble and that could explanin your bigger groups.

Mark

 

[Bonecracker]

I second Slick Trick's! Best shooting head I have ever used and not to mention cuts a big hole for it's size!!!!!!!!

 

[BigPig]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-29-05 AT 11:58AM (MST)[p]I'm a Slick Trick fan too. They shoot great out of my Switchback. Who ever told you to shoot **** vane down on a Trophy Taker is a little off. A TT, and most other drop aways for that matter, are meant to be shot **** up. Just look at the rest and think about it. The cradle drops down, having the **** vane down would increase the chances of it touching, thus negating the advantages of a drop away rest.

 

[hornhole]

Hey Mike, I know it has been a while since you posted, but here is some more info you might find usful. The first thing you want to do is square your arrow. Use the G5 squaring device, and square both ends of your arrow(without insert,or nock), then after putting insert in, square the end of the insert. The G5 tool will shave both carbon and aluminum, so it is a valuable tool. Once you have a perfectly squared arrow, put your choice of broadhead(mine is a 100gr Slicktrick) on any arrow spinner, and check the balance of the arrow/broadhead combination. You want that arrow to spin perfectly tight, any other way will not fly correctly. Now with a tuned hunting arrow, paper tune your bow with the broadheads on. You may have good tuning holes with field points, but with broadheads you will clearly see if you need to tune your set up. Make sure that your bow is also in tune, you will be amazed how your broadhead/fieldpoint grouping will improve if your bow is tuned. Square that arrow and you will be happy with the result!!!

 

[jcathunter]

Broadheads steer the arrow and magnify minor tuning and shooting form flaws. If your bow is set up properly and has straight line nock travel, and your arrows are properly splined,you should be able to get the broadheads to hit the same spot as field points. If you are shooting 3.5 inches to the right, move your rest a little to the left. Move it very little at first and test until you reach the right spot. Number your arrows and broadheads and you will also find that individual arrows will need tuning. If there is a pro shop near you that allows access to a hooter shooter (shooting machine) take the time to get familiar with it and it will help you tremendously. Because you said that different broadheads were consistantly hitting the same spot for you, I would guess that your setup is pretty close to being right and with a very slight rest adjustment, your broadheads will close in on your field points.

 

[jcathunter]

I wanted to add a little about your question with muzzys and thunderheads. I have shot game with both and had good results with both but I have had blades fall out on impact with thunderheads. Both have tuned very easily for me but I would have to say that I favor the muzzys in both departments, accuracy, and durability.

 

[MikeLonsford]

When paper tuning is it normal to have some variance in the arrow, or can you really get the bullet hole with the fletches showing with all set ups? I can get that at certain distances but inbetween, I know the tail of the arrow is still going back and forth. I'm not getting big side tears but enough to see them beyond the fletches. I'm worked down to small increments of moving the rest one way or the other less than 1/32" and whether I go one way or the other there is still a tear from one side or the other at diffent distances.

Got some of the Wac'ems and G5 Montec's, both seem great to me. I am currently leaning toward the Wac'ems for hunting season.

One thing in the Easton guide that threw me was if I have a left tear with field tips, it is a weak shaft and I should move the rest to the right (release shooter). When broadhead tuning if I have broadheads landing to the right then again it's a weak shaft, but now I am supposed to move the rest to the left? I wonder if this is only the finger answer and for a mechanical release it is supposed to be to the right? I've decided to just play with it until it gets as close as I can and hope for the best. Basically I have been moving it back and forth to this point. Lots of spinning my wheels. I think I'm too much of a perfectionist for this and I need to just go hunt and kill something.

This is probably all real basic to most of you, I appreciate you reading through this as I don't have many people to ask about it in person, and MM members have been very helpful.

Thanks for all the help and any other advice
Mike