bullet impact

hhunter23

hhunter23

Active Member
Messages
515
ok i have a question about how a bullet should impact and penetrate. ive always thought that if i could get the bullet to stay inside the animal after the shot, that would mean that all the energy was transferred to the animal. but i keep reading more and more about people being happy about complete pass throughs? what are your thoughts and experiences?





"Shoot Straight"
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-12 AT 11:24AM (MST)[p]The perfect bullet will properly expand and give full penetration while barely passing through the far side of an animal, but that's asking too much 99% of the time. Most people want to see a bullet expand nicely while dumping max energy in the animal before passing through so there is a better blood trail if the animal doesn't drop right where he's standing. Many people nowadays are using high priced, bonded bullets when not necessary and that really improves the probability that they will get pass throughs on deer, antelope, etc. You really don't need a bonded bullet IMHO until you get into elk and moose size critters or big bears.
 
In my experience, i'd like similar to topguns wishes but i'll sacrifice a little of that energy for great expansion and a pass through. I used to hunt a lot of really super thick brush country and i don't see blood as good as some out there. A complete pass through is a lot more likely to have a great blood trail vs the blood giving out and a guy stuck doing circles or a grid.

My 140 gr Accubond loading leaves a wound channel that you could push a broom handle through. Plenty enough damage caused...and a great blood trail if needed.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
+1 to what Topgun was saying. You really don't need a bonded bullet, or controlled expansion like a partition bullet, for deer and antelope. But, most guys use them because they don't want to have to sight their rifle in for different bullets.

I use a 180 grain Nosler partition out of my 300 Win Mag for elk.

But I save the money and shoot 180 grain Sierra's for deer. The Sierra's shoot about 75 FPS slower to get the same zero at 100 yards. My guess is that's because they are a true boat tail, while the Nosler is flatter base?? Anyway, they punch through the animal just fine, but the exit wound on the deer is much larger then the exit wound on elk with the partition. I am pretty sure the sierra would not punch through the elk, and I deffinately want the blood trail, cause the elk rarely go down with the first shot.

A few years ago when I was doing more of the muzzleloader thing I shot a deer at 40 yards, and the bullet did not exit the animal. He went down in some really thick brush, and we had a very hard time finding him because there was not much of a blood trail to follow, despite having hit both lungs. The blood mostly just pooled up inside the chest cavity. I was not a fan!
 
If your animal is dead, you're using the right bullet and there is no need to change. I use Hornady SST's out of the .270 and Nosler Partitions out of the .338. Both have performed flawlessly on the right size game. The SST makes a huge wound channel and deer and antelope usually fall in their tracks. The Partition has killed oryx and elk and I have never had a pass through, even at 80 yards. I recovered every bullet on the offhand side just under the hide in a perfect mushroom.
 
I don't give a damn if a bullet passes through or not. As long as the critter is dead, who cares? As far as bonded bullets, I can tell you from experience they work very well on even "little" game like deer and antelope. I like using a tough bullet. Saving money on hunting ammo is a non-issue, one I find kind of ridiculous. mtmuley
 
The OP is basing his question on a flawed premise. Energy doesn't kill an animal. You don't really care if "all" the energy is transferred to the animal. The "punch" isn't what kills the animal. What you want is a massive wound channel and significant tissue disruption. Loss of blood and/or disruption of the Central nervous system is what kills. I prefer a bullet than exits, doing as much damage as possible while traveling through the animal.

I once saw a mule deer shot with a 7 Rem Mag using 100 grain varmit bullets. The bullet entered the shoulder, fully disintegrated, and transferred all the energy to the deer. Since penetration didn't exceed a few inches, the deer ran off, and only a follow up shot with a more appropriate bullet killed the deer quickly. There was massive damage where the first bullet hit, but largely superficial, even though all the energy was transferred.

I advocate premium bullets such as the nosler partition and Barnes TSX. Many times they won't be needed, but you can't choose which bullet to use after he is dead. I prepare for the worst case, and get excellent results on even the easy presentations. Full penetration from a quality expanding bullet gives a better blood trail and typically more internal damage. And the resulting clean kill should be the goal of every hunter.
Bill
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-12 AT 05:19PM (MST)[p]Energy knocks them down, wound channel keeps them down....
I shoot accubond out of my magnums, btsp out of my 270, v-max out of my varmint guns.

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-12 AT 05:50PM (MST)[p]Llamapacker, I think you just contradicted yourself. Hydrostatic shock is the 'punch' you are talking about. Hydrostatic shock is what causes tissue damage beyond the projectile itself cutting through the tissue. Hydrostatic shock is the energy being transferred into the tissue surrounding the initial wound channel.

Is this a fair example: 1- An arrow achieving pass through creates a great wound channel, however very little energy is transferred to the surrounding tissue. The animal dies from blood loss. 2- A bullet creates a wound channel, along with delivering varying amounts of kinetic energy that is absorbed by the surrounding tissue...hydrostatic shock. If the bullet gets a pass through you have a good wound channel, possibly leading to death by blood loss...plus you have the surrounding tissue, organs and nervous system possibly all being damaged by the energy that was delivered by the bullet.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-12 AT 06:23PM (MST)[p]Exactly, and if llamapacker does't think energy plays a huge part in what we're talking about for penetration, then why is he using a 7 Rem Mag, LOL! He needs to go back and rewrite his post because, as stated, he is completely contradicting himself! A premium bullet used on antelope and small deer may lead to the same problem of not dispatching the animal quickly because it's designed for deeper penetration on a bigger animal. A guy that hunted on my Dad's lease shot a rutting whitetail buck five times down in south Texas with a 7 mag and the buck just flinched each time and kept running a hot doe. One of the other guys had to take his gun over to the blind he was in, climb up and let him shoot the buck with his gun. When they dressed the buck out all five bonded bullets shot with the 7 mag had passed through the lungs without expanding. The buck would have died, but not for some time and down in that country where tracking is very difficult the buck would have probably been lost.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-12 AT 06:28PM (MST)[p]Take it somewhere else muley, as your post is nothing but hogwash if you don't know any more about ballistics than to make a ridiculous post than that! Incidentally, your first post making mention of cost between bullets has nothing to do with this discussion either!

Hydrostatic shock:
Hydrostatic shock or hydraulic shock describes the observation that a penetrating projectile can produce remote wounding and incapacitating effects in living targets through a hydraulic effect in their liquid-filled tissues, in addition to local effects in tissue caused by direct impact. There is scientific evidence that hydrostatic shock can produce remote neural damage and produce incapacitation more quickly than blood loss effects. Proponents of cartridges that are "light and fast" such as the 9x19mm Parabellum versus cartridges that are "slow and heavy" such as the .45 ACP round often refer to this phenomenon.
Human autopsy results have demonstrated brain hemorrhaging from fatal hits to the chest, including cases with handgun bullets. Thirty-three cases of fatal penetrating chest wounds by a single bullet were selected from a much larger set by excluding all other traumatic factors, including past history.
 
I mentioned 'KNOCKDOWN POWER' once & GEEZUS REDDOG about lost his Cool!:D

I like to knock the Broadside out of them!

A 600 Grain Slug will usually do the Trick!



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
TOPGUN, We've been through this before. Do some research bud. I'm no ballistician, but I bet I'm learning more than you are through practical application. Your opinion on bonded bullets is hogwash, for instance. I'm not gonna get in a pissing match over this, I directed you to a study specifically related to this a couple years ago. I formed my opinion (ironically I was a firm believer in "hydro-static" shock) after a good friend and I had a disagreement. If you want to believe, fine. Some of us don't. I don't believe you are in any position to question my grasp of ballistics. mtmuley
 
"Knockdown Power" is really a misnomer according to all the "experts", but if you relate it directly to hydrostatic shock, or what some call "hydraulic shock", which is caused by the energy imparted to the tissue in and around the wound channel, it's probably the same thing just using different terminology.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-12 AT 06:36PM (MST)[p]I'll put my 60 years of hunting/shooting and all the animals I've shot over the years up against your BS any day booby!!! There have been so many ballistics tests and documentation to back what we're saying up that you're talking nonsense! Take a hike!!!
 
I use several types of factory loads cause they shoot well from my rifles. That said: one factory load I used for several years was the Bronze Point from Remington in 30-06 165grn I believe. My thought process was that the Bronze Point acted as a ballistic tip, along with a heavier lead core bullet behind it would equal good penetration and complete energy delivery to the animal. I was right. Several deer, two of which are staring back at me as I type, were 'Pole Axed', dead in there tracks. A third required one follow-up shot as he staggered head down for a few yards. He was a little over 300yds, the others were closer than 300yds, but farther than 150yds for comparison. There was never an exit hole on any of the animals, the insides were similar to a half melted jello salad.

I changed my tune regarding this particular bullets' performance on an antelope hunt. The bullet did it's job similar to the deer. However the complete fragmentation that lead to the pole axe effect, caused severe damage to the antelopes' cape. My inexperience with the hollow haired lopers meant that when a fragment of the bullet exited through the white brisket area on the lope, the hair was immediately covered in dark 'clotty' type blood. I didn't know enough at the time to plan on rinsing the blood out of the cape asap. So, that critter is know staring back at me with a somewhat discolored brisket. Oh well, live and learn.

I've since gone back to a bonded bullet but in a heavier grain. I like to have an animal fall within sight. If not, I want a good blood trail as others have mentioned.

MTMuley,

So if hydrostatic shock is not a real thing, what cause tissue damage surrounding the wound channel?
 
mtmuley (2904 posts)
Aug-10-12, 06:10 PM (MST)
10. "RE: bullet impact"
If you believe in hydro-static shock, you are lost already. mtmuley

When you make condescending opening posts like the one above, followed by more of them, with nothing to back yourself up other than it's your expert opinion, it gets a little old. Cutting people down like you did me again when you have no idea of what their experience is, also gets a little old. I see you didn't answer the simple question asked of you in the post prior to your last one! Let's hear your explanation if it's contrary to what all of us have stated, seeing as I'm not the only one on this thread having the same thoughts that brought your remarks about me/us being lost!
 
I like the old saying.
At what point of the animals death did the bullet fail?
Personally I use Hornady SST for deer/antelope. Barnes Triple shocks for elk or larger. Like to reload and take a while tweeking loads to find them shoot in the same place for zero so no re sight in is required when switching ammo.
 
Calm down TOPGUN. I said I'm not gonna play. If I seemed condescending, I apologize. I have a differing opinion. You seem to have a lot to say about everything around here of late. Wonder what happened to the decent guy that first became a member? Maybe you spend too much time here. Good luck in Wyoming, I'm out of this one. mtmuley
 
No contradiction in my original post, and I've never used a 7 Mag. Read more closely.
Bullets tearing flesh do considerably damage outside the direct (.30 cal?) wound channel. It is incredibly difficult to knock an animal off its feet with just energy transfer from a bullet. Breaking bones and disrupting the CNS will often lead to the pole axed effect.
Bullets aren't arrows, which behave more like scalpels. Don't fall for the old arguments about hydrostatic shock which talk about blowing up ballons or milk jugs. Yissue doesn't behave this way. Tissue can be torn some distance from the hole when a bullet tears through, but comparing this to hydraulic action is just not really accurate.
I stand by my origanal statement. I want large wound channels all the way through the animal. This will lead to a quick death if the bullet is placed properly.
Bill
 
I like a 3/8" Hole going in & a 24" Hole on the opposite side!



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-12 AT 08:26PM (MST)[p]Sorry buddy, as I did misread the 7 mag statement in your post! Question for you please---What do you think does the terrible damage to the lungs and adjacent tissues when a bullet goes through when the wound channel is a few inches in circumference where the bullet passes through, and yet the surrounding tissue out from the wound channel may be another 8"-10" that was destroyed. The answer, regardless of some who won't read all the information out there that has been done through scientific testing, is "hydrostatic/hydraulic" shock. If it isn't that, I would ask anyone reading this thread to tell us what does it!
 
Topgun;

Hydrostatic-hydraulic shock was a term promoted by Roy Weatherby to sell his super fast magnums in the 50's & 60's. It does have an effect, but not as great as some hunters think it does. Another term for it would be "temporary wound channel" that is used alot today.

There is many accounts on record of slow heavy cast bullets killing as fast as the super fast bullets. I for one want complete pass though on a game animal in the event he does not drop dead in a short distance and I must track a blood trail to recover him.

Bottom line bullet placement into vital organs or nervous system is the priorty to insure quick humane kills. I have also seen many animals shot with super fast light constructed bullets that failed to bring the animal down due to poor pentration. Those bullets dumped all it's energy along with hydrostatic shock and still failed to do the job on a shoulder or rib case shot.

Ask most professional hunters that hunt dangeous game in Africa and see if they buy into the hydrostatic-hydraulic shock theory to drop a dangeous animal in it's tracks or prefer a big heavy constructed bullet traveling at 2200-2400 FPS to drive in deep and put the charging animal down.

RELH
 
After speaking with a colleagues of mine one that studied medicine at HCMC in the ER and the other that studied at Mayo Clinic in Rochester in the ER. HCMC is one of the top trauma hospitals in the country and probibly the top trauma hospital in the upper midwest. They both said that you need a combination of both for an ethical kill. You could take a hollow tube and push it into the lung and it will kill or put someting between two objects moving at a slow speed towards each other that crushes both will kill. They also said when you talk about a bullet that is not constructed well like a varmit bullet it is like taking a baseball bat and hitting somebody with it. It does damage but more then likely it doesn't kill unless it disrupts the CNS. That being said both kill but to be ethical you need a combination of both. You can say what you want about the hunting in Africa but look at bullet energy. I am just taking the 404 jeffery and its offspring. 404 Jeffery with a 300gr bullets traveling at 2600fps developes 4500foot pounds of force. The offspring 300 ultra mag 180gr bullet traveling at 3250fps developes 4221 foot pounds of force or 200gr traveling at 3032fps developes 4082 foot pounds of force "source Wikipedia". saying that you can see why you want the bigger gun at a slower speed. That being said I use the Swift Sirrocco II or Accubond because I have used other bullets like the SST and had a bad experience. What it comes down to is bullet placement and shoot something you can get to group the way you want and like.
 
The .17JFP is a nice Round but just not enough damage out the other side for me!

[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-12 AT 06:53AM (MST)[p]Guys---I am not saying that speed is everything like Roy was probably trying to advocate way back when I was in school. I've always said that it's a combination of the correct bullet for the caliber and the speed that it's designed for to get maximum expansion/penetration for the animal you're shooting at. As mentioned above, the big calibers shooting heavy bullets are designed specifically for big, tough, dangerous game where you want an immediate major effect on the animal, rather than waiting a few seconds or having a tracking job that could turn into the hunter being the hunted. That immediate effect is a huge shock to the CNS with the tremendous energy they impart, as mentioned above. If too big a caliber with too fast a bullet that won't expand is used on a small animal, it zips through like I mentioned earlier and the result many times will not be what you want compared to one that dumps all, or most of, it's energy in the body. I have never disagreed that a pass through is not a good thing, as long as the bullet has done it's job of expanding and dumping lots of energy before doing so. This appears to be a major difference of opinion between myself and mtmuley regarding using bonded bullets in big guns on small animals. They may do the job if you take a shoulder shot where they can impart much more damage, but the damage may be minimal if the shot is in between the ribs, passes through, and the bullet doesn't expand. I would bet money that is what happened when I read guys on hunting forums saying they lost their animal with a "perfect" shot through the lungs and such and such a bullet or caliber is no good because the animal isn't DRT. If the correct, properly expanding bullet in a caliber designed for the animal is placed in the heart/lung region, you should not have much, if any, of a tracking job. If the animal does go out of sight, normally a pass through will help in a faster recovery of the animal for obvious reasons.
 
Top, I do it too but sometimes, a guy just needs to stop speaking to keep from digging a deeper hole.

If mtmuley claims his bullets are getting the job done, i'd put money that they are. The guy hunts hard and takes a LOT of game every single year, probably more than you, i, and another guy all put together.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-12 AT 11:01AM (MST)[p]Joey---I'm not saying his bullets aren't getting the job done and I'm sure he is able to kill plenty of game where he lives with whatever he's using. It does, however, chap my ass that after hunting/shooting for 60 years somebody comes on a forum and tells me I'm lost, LOL!!!
 
Just go get a box of Remington core-lokt bullets for what ever your shooting and you will be happy. No need to over
think things. I use partition, accu-bond when I can get them as seconds beacuse the factory is local. If I were to run out I would not hesitate to go to Wal-mart ant get a box of the deadliest mushroom in the woods!
 
Can't argue with that at all. I used them for a long time until I started reloading and never had a problems with any animal I used them on.
 
I quit using Remington Core-lokts over 20 years ago after seeing two examples of what it will do. A buddy of mine used a Core-lokt to shoulder shoot a deer with his 30-06. Hit it in the left shoulder and blew a crater in the meat, but the deer limped off and had to be shot a second time to down it. bullet failed to pentatrate deep enough to break major bone outside of the left shoulder blade.

In Wyoming I hit a running deer with my 25-06 that had hand loaded core-lokts at 3000fps. That deer went over 200 yards and we nearly lost it due to very poor blood trail. We were lucky there was patches of snow on the ground and we could spot a drop of blood every 40 yards or so. Upon field dressing the deer, I saw that my shot was a perfect chest shot and the top of the deer's heart was a mangled mess including the major blood vessels. That damn core-lokt failed to exit on a chest shot of about 100-120 yards.

I have heard that the core-lokts are now better constructed but I will stay with Nosler partitions and Sierra Game Kings for my deer and antelope shooting.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-12 AT 05:27PM (MST)[p]That's interesting! All the deer I shot with them were with 30-06 180 grain round nose and they were fairly close (inside 75 yards)in northern Michigan and all were shot through the lungs. I can't remember any of them going more than about 50 yards and most didn't go anywhere. I shot one deer down in Texas years ago, as well as a good size hog 2 years ago with the .243 Sako I got when Dad died last year. Both were shot with factory 100 grain Game Kings and I was very impressed with them.
 
Topgun the core-lokt my buddy used was a 150 gr. spitzer and I was using 115gr. spitzer in the 25-06. Those round nose you are using may have a thicker jacket and not have a tendency to blow up as the older core-lokt spitzers seem to do.

Also these two examples were around 20 years ago, and I have heard that Remington has switched to a thicker jacket on the core-lokts due to complaints they would blown up with very little pentration.

The Sierra game kings have been very good in my experience. Will expand easily, but not excessive and the accuracy is great in several of my rifles.

RELH
 
I hit an antelope at just under 400 yards with my 300 win mag, 180 grain accubond. His ass and his head clapped together before being thrown to the ground.. I've had similar results minus the clapping on 1 elk and 3 deer. The 4 other animals while field dressing them the heart was laying completely detached in the bottom of the chest cavity.. I like a good energy transfer without blowing big holes....

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
My dad shot a buck one year with a round 180 grain round nose at about 50 yards.

The buck did a 180 and landed deader thatn dead. Due to the sharp angle that the bullet entered, the entry hole was about the size of a childs hand and the exit was about two "big person's" hands.


Call it what you want, hydrostatic shock, knockdown power, etc... that buck wasn't going to get any "deader" than that!
 
I shot a cow elk today and found the bullet. I was shooting a .270 with 150gr win. bullets. It was a quartering toward shot at 200yrds. The entry hole was about 1 1/2" in diameter as it broke through a rib. The shot was just above and behind the shoulder. It went through about half the length of the body and hit a lung and grazed the grassbag. The bullet ended up next to the skin. THe bullet didnt really mushroom but looks like a bunch of razors sticking above the main part of the bullet. It did some serious damage... The elk went 20 yrds. Hope that helps.



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I shot a cow elk today and found the bullet. I was shooting a .270 with 150gr win. bullets. It was a quartering toward shot at 200yrds. The entry hole was about 1 1/2" in diameter as it broke through a rib. The shot was just above and behind the shoulder. It went through about half the length of the body and hit a lung and grazed the grassbag. The bullet ended up next to the skin. THe bullet didnt really mushroom but looks like a bunch of razors sticking above the main part of the bullet. It did some serious damage... The elk went 20 yrds. Hope that helps.



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I shot a Muley in the ass last year thru his hind quarter with a 165 gr core lokt out of an 06 at 180 yards. Very very poor shot, one I should not have taken, yet that buck was dead within 15 seconds from servere blood loss.
 
I like a full pass through with as much destruction between the two holes. If you believe that shock value is important in killing the animal, then you may want to pay attention to what many of the african hunters buy into. Many African hunters, and I am starting to believe a lot of it myself, talk about a window of devistation in FPS. Regardless of caliber it seems that flesh, bone and most importantly the nervous system reacts most negatively to projectiles flying between 2000 and 2400 FPS upon impact. For whatever reason you seem to get the greatest transfer of energy into the animal between these speeds without too great of a loss when the bullet pops out the farside. I have had several discussions with very experienced shooters and the more they think about their most devistating kills, excluding head and spine shots, the more we all noticed that the bullets we were using were probably traveling in that window of speed.
 
^^ I would agree with that. A lot of times 50 or 100 yard shots are not very devastating and people can't figure out why
 
i have seen the affects of hydrostatic shock and a complete pass through.

i shot a deer in Idaho two years ago, the shot only 300 yards but it was severely downhill i miss-judged where to aim and i hit high. my bullet entered above the spine with-out hitting any bone, but still broke his back and dropped him where he stood.

Another buck in Utah, he was standing broad side at 220yds, i placed my shot right behind the shoulder, me and my buddy both saw dust kick up behind him and he said i shot high but the buck dropped where he was standing, the bullet passed clean through leaving a good wound channel and exploding the heart.

so i have mixed feelings about pass through and the affects that the bullet has. I for one believe in hydrostatic shock or else the buck in Idaho i shot would never had dropped where he stood, how else would the spine break without hitting it directly? and a bullet passing through an animal completely will provide a good blood trail and with good placement, it wont be a long tracking job.




"Shoot Straight"
 
>The OP is basing his question
>on a flawed premise. Energy
>doesn't kill an animal. You
>don't really care if "all"
>the energy is transferred to
>the animal. The "punch" isn't
>what kills the animal. What
>you want is a massive
>wound channel and significant tissue
>disruption. Loss of blood and/or
>disruption of the Central nervous
>system is what kills. I
>prefer a bullet than exits,
>doing as much damage as
>possible while traveling through the
>animal.
>
>I once saw a mule deer
>shot with a 7 Rem
>Mag using 100 grain varmit
>bullets. The bullet entered the
>shoulder, fully disintegrated, and transferred
>all the energy to the
>deer. Since penetration didn't exceed
>a few inches, the deer
>ran off, and only a
>follow up shot with a
>more appropriate bullet killed the
>deer quickly. There was massive
>damage where the first bullet
>hit, but largely superficial, even
>though all the energy was
>transferred.
>
>I advocate premium bullets such as
>the nosler partition and Barnes
>TSX. Many times they won't
>be needed, but you can't
>choose which bullet to use
>after he is dead. I
>prepare for the worst case,
>and get excellent results on
>even the easy presentations. Full
>penetration from a quality expanding
>bullet gives a better blood
>trail and typically more internal
>damage. And the resulting clean
>kill should be the goal
>of every hunter.
>Bill

+1 Perfect analysis Bill.
Zeke
 
Assuming good expansion, I expect a bullet that passes through had enough energy to do the necessary damage in transit. If the bullet does not pass through, one would hope for enough energy for it obtain the greatest penetration. I've had several deer and elk in which the bullet ended up against the skin on the far side. I've had several of both where the bullet passed through. As stated above, the end result was the same. The meat was equally good.

Now if your not getting expansion, or the bullet doesn't maintain integrity, or your only getting partial penetration... you should rethink your choice of bullet.
 
>Now if your not getting expansion,
>or the bullet doesn't maintain
>integrity, or your only getting
>partial penetration... you should rethink
>your choice of bullet.
I'll add: or rethink your cartridge/bullet weight choice.

Yup!
Zeke

PS; Man those Barnes TTXX bullets open quickly yet hold together and penetrate! I love the reassuring "POP" too. Great bullets and as near to perfect for both deer and elk as any bullet out there. (I should be on the payroll)
 
If you can put a hole through them that you can almost put your fist through, they don't go far.

86472011_antelope_hunt_051.jpg
 
but most the barnes ballistic coefficients suck? how does it compare to a nosler accubond? or a hornady bullet that has a higher BC?

and what was that poor antelope shot with!! good hell what a hole.



"Shoot Straight"
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-12 AT 03:25PM (MST)[p]Putting that picture up looks like he got hit with a friggin mortar for cripes sake! If ever I wanted to use the word "OVERKILL" that picture is sure it!
 
As I stated above!

A .375/3/8" Hole going in & a 24" Crater on Exit!

And I don't wanna hear all the ROOKIE BS with you Boys & your WORTHLESS f'n Core-Lokts,TOTAL F'N JUNK!



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!
 
I just love topics like these and the responses. IMO bullet construction and design has been rapidly changing and to each their own. All the premium bullets will do the job in most situations and when used in the manor they were designed for. As a reloader I like to test a variety of bullets and find which ones shoot best in my rifles. I do tend to lean toward the heavy for caliber bullets though.
 
Top,

Those dinky-dog deer go down easily with just about any bullet. I'll stick with a premium for elk and real deer :)
 

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