CALLING TONY ABBOTT

W

WORKNMAN

Guest
Tony,I am a fairly new SFW member. I have only been reading posts on Monster Muley's web site for a few months.Since I started viewing this web site you have been regulary makeing statements about SFW not being on the up and up. I do not want to support a group of OUTLAWS, as you Tony make them out to be. I am going to give some of your words back to you, you have stated." I know things from being involved at the deepest level for nearly five years", "The plot and story has not changed"," Trust me when I tell you your group (SFW) is not what you think it is",I know more about how it all works then you do","They are not showing transperancy", "Why does it appear things are being hidden"," They are non profit and their books should be open to all". This does not include some of your statements on your Radio talk show. FOR SOMEONE THAT INSINUATES THEY KNOW SO MUCH, YOU SAY AND CLARIFY NOTHING!!! Since you will be out of town on March 25th 2010, would you please let us all know what the hell you think you know!!! And if you dont or can not clarify your TOP SECERT INFORMATION. "Get off it", your uninformative statements is getting old. You sound like a disgruntal former employee just stiring the sh-t pot!!! Please inform us all!!! Nathan Adams (SFW Member) Syracuse Utah.
 
"Uninformative"? Really? Not hard to see Outfitters and Richie Rich are the darlings of SFW.

Think anyone within SFW's elite inner circle has access to the specific details of how many folks applied to each of the Expo tags in 2007 and 08 and 09? Probably? Now, detailed odds are presumably highly sensitive info since SFW did not release as was promised to all us. Any of those insiders then apply for Expo tags or share that detailed info with someone who applied? Nah, people don't do that.
 
What difference does it make? Who really cares what the odds are, it's all a gamble anyway. Are you not going to put your $5 in if the odds are 1-5000 or 1-100 on a pahvant elk tag? really why are you guys so freakin worried what the odds are? I suspect it's just another thing to whine about.
Greg
 
Greg:

The odds were promised and they never delivered! That is the issue. The expo also claims it has the best odds for premium hunts. I don't think that is a true statement. If you live in Utah, specifically Salt Lake, the odds are not a big deal. If a person is thinking of traveling to the Expo then they should be given the promised odds before they make the trip.
 
Do you really think people are coming to the EXPO with the thoughts of drawing a tag? The intellegent people I know don't. If that is their thought process they might as well go to Vegas and throw a $1000 down on red. Come on does the odds really matter that much? I think not, Just my opinion.
 
I think it would be fair to have the odds available for those who are going to travel to draw a tag. I do believe that many people do travel here in hopes of drawing a tag.
 
You really do not care if someone says they will do something then they do not?

I hold people accountable. If a person sets my expectations that they are true to their word and then they do not come through when it counts...I find a new person or organization to rely upon.

SFW promised the odds would be released. That set my expectations. Why should I have to call or show up at a meeting or sue to have a man merely stand by his word?
 
>I think it would be fair
>to have the odds available
>for those who are going
>to travel to draw a
>tag. I do believe
>that many people do travel
>here in hopes of drawing
>a tag.


Absolutely there is no way I got on a plane speniding $100s and flew to SLC in fricking WINTER if there were not 200 tags that I felt would be fairly disbursed to the entrants. Did this for the first 3 years, odds were never released and that made me question the entire ball of wax. Seems to me that folks that drive across town to enter the Expo are underestimating the sacrifice it takes to get to SLC from another area.
 
Really... your wound that tight about your odds to win a lottery. Hope you get some resolution to your dilemma, if you do you will make a few others happy also. Good luck!
 
To the issue at hand. I think people like Abbott are no reliable source for info when their agenda is to talk bad about something or someone else. So just ignore Abbott, if he has something to blow the whistle on SFW then he will. If he really doesn't then he'll smoke and mirror us in to believing he does. And as for the odds they are horrible get over it. Oh maybe not I know personally 8 guys that have drawn tags. And no they aren't affiliated with SFW.
 
Greg:

YES! The Expo got the 200 tags to help drive up the attendance. I was at the RAC when the Expo was proposed and that is why they got the tags. Numerous people attend the expo for a chance at the tags. The "intelligent people" I know look at multiple factors to make an informed decision before putting in applications or traveling long distances to go to the Expo. Again, for a Utah resident living in SLC the odds don't mater. They would simply drive (if they live in Draper) up to 1/2 hour and submit their applications. However, if a person is contemplating putting in and they live in Wyoming (like I do) than the odds do mater. Just look at the draw odds page on MM. A lot of people use the draw odds to help make informed decisions when it comes to their applications. For me, the expo odds are too long and that is why I put in for New Mexico. Their random draw odds are much better than the Expo odds. The cost of traveling to Utah, getting a hotel, buying a hunting license, applying for the draw and all of the other incidentals associated with the trip is about the same amount of money as putting in for New Mexico.
 
FWIW, I live 30 miles from SLC and have never attended the Expo due to the fact they get the tags. Pisses me off to no end that Utah gives the number of tags they do to different organizations and those that say the sacrifice is worth the money generated are full of shitt in my opinion! I think a lot of people are under the impression the majority of funds generated from the tag auctions/raffles go directly to helping Utah's wildlife, and nothing could be further from the truth! There'a damn good reason SFW and the likes don't open their books, and there's a damn good reason Don Peay and his ilke skirt questions better than Bill Clinton!
 
Deadheads wrote;

"Do you really think people are coming to the EXPO with the thoughts of drawing a tag? The intellegent people I know don't."

So are you saying that EVERYONE that puts in for EXPO tags are unintelligent...?
 
NO!! What I am saying is Stop whinning about the freakin odds every INTELLEGENT person knows they suck.

But nice spin on it Browingrage you said it, I didn't. How Intellegent is it to buy a lottery ticket and whine about not winning?
 
I'm glad this thread was titled "EXPO TAG ODDS". Do we really need to go over this every other week. Tony if your going to say your for the average joe, and you claim you now so much about sfw's bull #####. Then share it with us, or shut up. Personaly I'm not a fan of alot of what sfw does, and would like to know if your just stiring the pot, or you have some facts we as sportman need to know.
 
someone ased if they were calling people stupid if they bought lottery tickets. well stinky has a saying about lotteries.

"A lottery is a tax on the stupid"

there i said it. everyone who bought a lottery ticket is stupid. i bought several myself so that means i'm several times over stupid. so now what do we argue about?
 
If people think the odds are great on the expo i think comon sense says NO!! All I would Like to know if the expo tags that utah annies up that what is left after the cost of the show is paid for, that the money that is left over goes to public land habitat projects, Im not here for a pissin match.One question to sfw and Im not trying to make waves do you guys have chapters in other states That would be willing to give up some of there coveted tags to the expo,I mean the mdf has banquets in wyoming idaho new mexico if out of state people are coming from wyoming or idaho or neveda why dont there dwrs get on board and help with some tags to the lottery.I think alot of sportsmen in this state want to see some results of the expos and were the money has hit the ground I know some will get on here and say well will have to split it with other dwrs,isnt the big picture about improving habitat across the west.or are we just pimping tags and there dwrs is smarter than ares to allow this to happen.thoughts?
 
HOW THE HELL DID THIS POST TURN INTO A GRIP SESSION ON EXPO DRAW ODDS.THE ODDS SUCK, WAKE UP. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE ODDS DONT COME. AS LONG AS THE DRAW IS FAIR WHO CARES. MOVE ON WITH LIFE.
 
hey workinman, u remember those people who are mentally stuck in high school. well combine that with middle child syndrome and u have urself someone whos brain stopped functioning after the lottery system failed to give them an expo tag. i know how they feel though. I was pissed when the powerball hit 250 million and my one ticket didnt win. I'm now suing because they didnt properly post draw odds and I was sure i was gonna win. I was had by uncle sam!
 
Workman (Nathan Adams) Syracuse, UT

First off, my name is Daren Tuttle (Syracuse, UT) and I believe I live right behind you and down one house. Second, you need to know that I was the MDF State Chair for Utah for three years. As such, I have worked with Tony Abbott and most of the top individuals within SFW, & MDF.

What I am about to write is only my opinion and is based only on experiences with these organizations.

Most of the individuals within these organizations have the highest ethics and are really trying to do what they feel is best for Utah and our wildlife. The best individuals within each of these groups are the people on the ground doing the actual work. People such as the Chapter Chairs, State Chairs and Regional Directors. Even more important than that are the individual chapter members. They day in and day out put their money, blood, sweat, and time where their mouths are and are 90% of the reason we have seen any improvement in wildlife management and growth in this state.

Tony is one of those people who you either love or hate. Don Peay is another one. While I disagree with them at times in how they go about getting things down, I do feel appreciative of what they have done. They were willing to do something, instead of just talking about it. There are others like this such as Troy Justensen (SFW), John Bair (SFW), Ray Crow (MDF)and Mike Laughter (MDF). I may not agree with their tactics, but I do feel grateful for their actions. We all just need to realize that sometimes people use this site to vent. Whether good or bad, at least there is a place you can do that and still feel a part of the MM masses.

The comment about the Hunt Expo Tag Draw Odds is very opinionated. Here is my two cents worth. 90% or more of the people out there really don't care about the draw odds. They are just happy to have another chance at drawing a tag or donating to the cause. We all get discouraged and upset when we don't draw. We couldn't call ourselves hunters, outdoorsmens, or human if we didn't. The difference is to be happy for those that drew and start anticipating next year.

There has been talk about John Bair (SFW) drawing a sheep tag this year at the Hunt Expo. I guess I feel that while I am very excited to see him draw a tag like this, I personally feel that you need to stay away from the appearance of any conflict of interest. The main sound board for me on things like this is, if I am being paid for any service by one of the organizations, then I should not be putting in for these tags. I learned this from Mike Laughter (Regional Director or MDF). He will not put in for any raffle or game played at an MDF event/banquet. He only participates in live auctions where there is an equal chance for all and everything is on the table for the public to see. If John is not receiveing any wage or fees from SFW or MDF, then more power to him and I hope he has a blast on his hunt. If he is receiving money or goods for services (salary or auctioneer fee) then forgive this year and in the future, he needs to not be a part of the tags. This is only may opinion though.

Do I think that the draw odds should be posted? If the two organizations running the Hunt Expo stated that they would then I would say that it is appropriate for them to or to at least come out and retract their statement. Either way, our lives go on and it is important to some of us and not important to others.

I hope this helps Nathan, and good luck this year in your hunting and life. If you are my neighbor, I apologize for not meeting you sooner and hope to shake hands with you soon in person.

Daren
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-10 AT 09:44AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-10 AT 09:41?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-10 AT 09:37?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-10 AT 09:35?AM (MST)

If individuals want to know the draw odda then they should be able to see them. One month before the Expo opened when all the talk about the draw odds was on MM. I called the powers that be and asked for the draw odds, I had them in my hands 24 hours later. If someone wants them, ask for them.There is no conspiracy at the Expo. If I'm not mistaken the odds are going to be posted after the March 25 UoU meeting. About John Bair wining a sheep tag. I know John Bair and he is a great person who works damn hard for SFW and Utah Sportsmen. BUT!!!! Because of all the doubt about SFW and the draw process, I personally dont think a paid SFW employee should be able to win a tag because of the controversy it would start. Nor a Mule Deer Foundation paid employee. I'm sorry to say that but those 200 tags are a sore spot for alot of Utah residents when you must wait 12-15 years to draw a tag. I fully understand that!!! I have done fund raiseing in Kentucky for High School Athletics, it is standard policy for coaches and coaches family members, cant win in a drawing for a prize when raiseing funds for High School athletics. Thats just how it is when you are in those positions of influence. We will see how things turn out after March 25 2010.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-10 AT 04:15PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-10 AT 04:14?PM (MST)

>WORKNMAN, If you have draw odds,
>Post them up or shut
>up!!

I put the draw odds in the trash because so many others already posted the draw odds months ago. Why dont you come to my house and we can discuss them. People like you are what makes MM so great, no name, no profile,big talk.
 
>I put the draw odds in
>the trash because so many
>others already posted the draw
>odds months ago. Why dont
>you come to my house
>and we can discuss them.
>People like you are what
>makes MM so great, no
>name, no profile,big talk.


You were sent detailed odds that showed how many folks applied for each hunt? Or did you get something that lumped all elk hunts into one bucket? Big difference in my opinion. Since the hunts are each $5, why would it make sense to not show odds for each hunt? Did it strike you as odd you could not find the detailed info on Expo odds at the SFW or MDF or Expo website?
 
So let me see if I am understanding this Thread correctly.....

Tony has been 100% up front about why he left SFW a few years ago with his totally honest addmission of non-profit org paychecks...ect...with his posts on this very site.

Then...

When Tony went to MDF...he was 100% honest about his income from MDF was the 10% from the sale of the Con. org tags....with his posts on this very site-----leaving the 90% to go back on the ground as mandated.

Why on earth someone would want to challenge a person that has been 100% upfront and honest and transparent -------is some what 'agenda' misleading to me.

Robb

'SFW turns fellow hunters against fellow hunters'
 
The odds of drawing a tag at the EXPO is like getting mauled by a grizzly bear and a normal bear in the same day. I think I hear that somewhere.LOL


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
think this has been covered the expo odds are great!!

just got the numbers from DP ABOUT 1 IN 20000 !!!

CAN'T BELEIVE I DIDN'T GET A TAG THIS YEAR

shut up and find something new to complain about

1 in 10 is bad

1 in 20000 is worse
 

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