CO Wildlife Commission vs. Guides & Landowners

Founder

Founder

Founder Since 1999
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I just caught wind of the verbage being added to the Colorado Regs. about landowner vouchers. Colorado Wildlife Commission is now in the business of putting private business owners out of business. The new rule states that a landowner voucher may only be transferred one time....from landowner to hunter. Brokering is no longer allowed.

What does this new rule accomplish for wildlife?
How does it help sportsmen?

Not only will brokers be hurt by this new rule, but so will guides, outfitters and landowners themselves. Outfitters will no longer be able to find vouchers for clients. Landowners will now make far less money per voucher, thus lessening the value of wildlife they support throughout the winter.

I know many are against vouchers altogether, that's fine. The problem I have is how the commission has decided that ridding the world of brokers will fix the problem. They might put a couple brokers out of business, but will hurt far more guides, outfitters, and landowners in the process.

The Colorado Wildlife Commissioners need to scratch this foolish rule from the regs now. It does nothing to solve the problem, only hurts guides, outfitters and landowners of Colorado.
The problem needs to be fixed by the legislature, not just have silly rules lobbed into the mix every year because a few locals can no longer buy their voucher for $20.00 from the guy down the road.

I can't believe they make a rule that does nothing to benefit sportsmen or wildlife, simply to put a couple folks out of business.

What do you guys think? If voucher brokers are out of business, will that help you in any way?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Personally I like this idea

It reduces the change of someone getting scammed for a tag. This has happened and will happen. The person your booking your hunt through may not have the tag. They take your money and you don't here from them again. Now your dealing with the landowner directly for that tag.
 
Geez, clients of outfitters can't get licenses like every other average hunter?

PLO tags won't work for outfitters clients?

Everyone should be on a level playing field in terms of tag acquistion....guess we all know how you get your tags.

Finally, the change was suggested by the Cattlemens Association along with the Farm bureau - the landowners themselves.

I hope it passes.
 
Founder you already know how I feel about the tag pimps.
These tags were never meant to be transferred an infinite number of times. They were to compensate landowners for harboring animals on their own land. If the landowner wants to start marketing his/her own tags that is fine with me.

I will always be against the commercialization of hunting and that is exactly what the tag pimps have done. Good riddance.

BeanMan
 
I believe it is a change for the better concerning hunters and landowners. Common sense will tell anyone that the middleman buying the tag from the landowner, paid the landowner less money then he sold it for. Looks like the hunter and landowner has a chance to get ahead on this one. The hunter may get his tags for a lesser price and has the choice of getting that tag and not using the service of the outfitter unless the outfitter has complete hunting rights on the landowner's ranch. The rancher has more say so on who hunts his property if he chooses to be selective on who he sells the tags too. He also has the chance to make more money on the tags if he has a great hunting ranch, I would prefer the rancher to make the money instead of a tag broker.
this may bring the price down for non-residence hunters, since SOME, NOT ALL, outfitters had too much control on hard to get tags and got greedy and jacked the prices up to where only very rich clients could afford to use them. This could also benifit resident hunters on being able to afford and get tags that had been placed out of their price range by tag brokers and outfitters.
I think in the long run, it will work out and hopefully bring the cost of tags down for the average Joe that wants to hunt. The good outfitters will still be in business.

RELH
 
Beanman, you are "da man." I agree 100%. I think it is a phenomenal idea whose time has come.

If some hunter wants to get a LO tag...great! If he wants to hire a guide...great! Whats the problem?

Now if we can just get rid of the "welfare tags" that guides get. Let them [guides] get hired by hunters, not getting tags for public animals, then selling them.
 
Does the verbage say: "brokering is not allowed" or did you add that? Will it be illegal to broker?

If not, then it seems to me that there could still be brokers, just only transferring the tag one time instead of multiple times. It might have less change on the system then at first glance if this is the case. How exactly does the LO tag transfers work?
 
I know where you all are coming from on this issue. I'm just not sure how ridding the world of Tag Pimps is going to fix the problems.

I just hope they don't set out to put MonsterMuleys.com out of business. I guess I better be careful or the CO Wildlife Commission will make it against the law for hunters to visit MM.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-07 AT 03:54PM (MST)[p]The regs will state, "Third-party brokering of landowner vouchers is not permitted."

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Email these people on the wildlife commission to let them know what you think.

[email protected]

Jeff Crawford [email protected]

Tom Burke [email protected]

Ken Torres [email protected]

Roy McAnally [email protected]

Robert Bray [email protected]

Rick Enstrom [email protected]

Claire O?Neal [email protected]

Brad Coors [email protected]

Richard Ray [email protected]

Keith King [email protected]



Dept. of Agriculture


Don Ament [email protected]



Dept. of Natural Resources


Russell George [email protected]
 
I'm all for it. Guys like Garth Carter have been driving up prices on average tags for to long.
 
I don't see how this proposed change could adversley affect guides and outfitters. The tags will still be available for them to buy. But, it would rid the hunting world of a layer of commercialization. I can foresee the day when hunting in Colorado might be like that of Texas, where it is all bought and payed for, and I don't ever want that to happen.

This is a step in the right direction. Next we need to work on making the tags tied to the property that they were issued for. Giving 15% of all tags to vouchers, before all other tags are drawn, is way too much.

If you have looked in to applying for Private Land Vouchers (as a landowner) you can see that you don't have to prove that game animals are on your property, you merely have to own the land. That is wrong and has been abused for wealth and profit, not for the benefit of wildlife.

BeanMan
 
Beanman-
You are wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take Wyoming for instance where the landowner has little to no incentive to allow wildlife on his property. Just recently the Myers ranch near Evanston was sold to private developer from Arizona. Their guys had been farming and ranching all their life and selling the ranch was really the last thing they wanted to do, but unfortunately for them the cattle business was not paying the bills. However, if the Myers family had another avenue such as the wildlife that was on their property you can bet your a$$ they would still be in business today!!! So go ahead cheap sportsmen and CO. make sure the landowners are compensated as little as possible!!!!!!!
 
Garth just sent an e mail to all members wanting us to voice our opposition to this ofcourse. I some what agree the tag pimps are running prices up but on the other hand they are like real estate brokers bringing buyers and sellers together. I don't know any ranchers in Colorado and I don't have time to drive around beating on doors asking if anyone has a tag for sale, and no landowner list is available. like anything there's good and bad in changing a system that works.
 
Wow, lets pi$$ the LO off, this will really help the situation. I know a LO here in So Utah that was not being fairly compensated. The result was several very big bucks getting killed and the DWR and public were left holding their nuts. There was nothing they could do! I know private land throughout the west winters a lot of wildlife. I'd sure hate to see that change.
 
look at or. the big ranchs have lop tags. they have there people do everything. look at the $$$ way to high. they shut down the rds. with gates. you have to know thats blm or forest serv. access. you go ask them they will open it up at there time. and have to wait to get out. i beleve fish and game do ther work and check how many animals doing damage. and give out tags as to. you have 5000 acers and ranch 2000 give less tags. put aside tags for kids handycap people ect. make it cheaper to hunt once again. i knew ranchers in central or. that had tags for kids. you just ask. i did work for a guy inexchange for hunting on his place and yes he had tags. i got to hunt with my doughter loved it. we need a change. lvoakey
 
It seems to me that if the hunters and landowners get together then the hunters get a tag for a little less and the landowners get a little more? It seems like a win win situation.
 
Somehow,
I find it truly troubling that we are discussing whether or not a price should be placed on an animal. It's only been in the last 15 ? 20 years or so that folks have discovered they could make a ton of money by ?brokering game animals?, 2nd or 3rd party?s? making money on these tags makes me want to puke!

What's wrong with LE tags being drawn by legitimate hunters? If they draw, hire a guide service if they can afford it.

This nonsense of brokers, landowners, guides and others doing nothing but making money on these animals is just wrong.

Get your gun, lace your boots up and go hunting. If all you can do is pay someone big bucks for a hunt and photo opportunity, STAY HOME.

The critters deserve more respect than they are getting!
 
I'm not up to speed with CO, but the last thing we want to do is make the ranchers feel alienated or that the general public?s option was cause to cut their compensation for these tags
 
WOOHOOOOOOO- Awesome!
Now some of the "Connected Friends" have to go to more effort or actually draw tags like the rest of us.
Shake the hand of a landowner is better than the "Tag Hooker" game in my opinion.
Of course many are gonna oppose this since they either got major $$$$ from it or they were able to hunt units most of us have to draw years for every year by there connections.............No more:)
Best,
Jerry

44f4e09309b4a917.jpg
 
I am for the changes as well, even as a nonresident. The tags will take a little more research , but they should be less expensive, and the main change I am for is to be sure that you are allowed access to the property that the tags are issued for.
The tag pimps are currently getting around that rule very easily.

Landowners and outfitters will find clients where they have always done so. Can't see how this hurts them. As far as hurting outfitters since now they won't be able to sell PUBLIC LAND ONLY hunts using landowner tags..... sorry, I don't have any sympathy.

Here is a link to the info, on page 8:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdonlyres/201FC398-3961-4C2E-AA22-2A2F1781FB1A/0/Ch2BigGame.pdf

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Skunkterd,

Apparently you didn't read what the Wildlife Commission has come up with. It does not stop landowners from benefiting from the tags. It does eliminate the "Brokers".

It also states that Landowners must allow access to the lands that the tags were issued for.

It is a victory for the average Joe.

Beanman
 
Skunk, I think that if those folks were in a position to have to rely on a few LO tags, they had bigger issues. Ranching is a tough gig. Each year can make or break some ranchers out there. Sometimes just the taxes from a ranch that has been passed down through the years can smoke them out.

You can thank the lovely politicians for that.
 
I think we would all agree that there are several things about the Colorado landowner license program that need to be overhauled. For what it's worth this is how I see the current situation.

Last year the commission made a change in the rules...The landowners had to allow voucher holders access to the property for which the voucher was issued. This rule didn't come close to fixing all of the problems with the system, but it was a step.

Well guess what??? In 2006 the landowner sells his tag to a broker and gives the "broker" permission to hunt on his property. The landowner knows all along that the broker is never going to personally use the tag and it doesn't matter, because at this point the landowner is following all of the rules. The broker then turns around and re-sells the tag. Now the broker, "Doesn't have the right to say who can and can not hunt on another mans property". So the right to hunt on the landowners property effectively ends when the broker re-sells the tag. These unwritten agreements between landowners and brokers for all intents and purposes laundered the trespass rights away from the license holder.

The commission isn't just sitting around trying to make up new rules evry year. This latest rule is just an attempt to plug a loophole that rendered last years rule ineffective.

My personal opinion is that the brokers had it pretty good for a while...they bent the rules too far...and now they might be left with nothing.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-07 AT 00:12AM (MST)[p]You may have hit the nail on the head. I guess you can't blame CDOW for disliking brokers when a few brokers came up with contracts and such to get past the rules.

OK, I lose, I give up. There's no argument to defend that.

Heck, there could still be legislation put through to get rid of vouchers altogether. Maybe if things happen fast, there won't even be vouchers this year. ?????

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-07
>AT 00:12?AM (MST)
>
>Heck, there could still be legislation
>put through to get rid
>of vouchers altogether. Maybe if
>things happen fast, there won't
>even be vouchers this year.
>?????
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com

I certainly don't see that happening and would certainly be against that. If it does, it is an overzealous backlash from abuses to the current system. When you have a system where a "rich" guy can essetially buy his way into Primo units every year to hunt PUBLIC LAND, and others can sell PRIVATE LAND vouchers and exclude those who buy them from hunting the land, there is something very wrong with that picture.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
The argument that this is going to hurt landowners and cost them money doesn't seem thought through. If the landowners put a little effort into selling there tags they should be able to get a chunk of the profit that brokers were making. And the tag prices should go down without the broker markups. Seems fair to me unless you have been the middle man.
 
I've seen many posts on MM the past couple years on this topic where someone says teh landowner did not even know they qualified for LO tags. The broker tells them to sign here so the LO gets the tags and sells them to the broker. How many of these brokers do you think actually pay the LO anywhere close to what they are selling the tag for? Maybe they do give the LO fair compensation, but I'm willing to bet the broker keeps more than half of a $4,000 mule deer voucher. I'm willing to bet that if this is the situation, the landowner will not be "hurt" as much as some say they will. Afterall, the LO will now have to do a little bit of work to make some money. Whats wrong with that? The hunter will now have to do a little bit of work to get a tag. Whats wrong with that? So many say that you need to do research before applying for the area you want to hunt, especially a new area, so why not do the research to find the LO voucher? If you know the area, you should know where the private land is, and it is that much easier to track down the LO. I don't see how its any different, your just obtaining the tag a different way.









It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I think Uphill has explained the situation. Very well done.

The only people really upset are the 3rd/4th/5th party brokers. It will not affect the guy who gets a landowner to apply for a voucher and then he uses it. It will affect the guy who sends his paid employees out to secure landowners who can apply for vouchers. Maybe landowners can now get the real (or close to it) price of market value and not the token payment while the broker makes the real money.

"When you have a system where a "rich" guy can essetially buy his way into Primo units every year to hunt PUBLIC LAND, and others can sell PRIVATE LAND vouchers and exclude those who buy them from hunting the land, there is something very wrong with that picture."
Hey, that is the way Utah does it......
 
If the landowner goes to the effort to sell his tag by running ads or on ebay or whatever he should do fine, some don't want the hassle and might sell them to a local yocal cheap is no doubt what the locals are hoping for. I bet they still broker tags for a fee this year and just never take ownership of the tag, that will backfire in time of coarse as the buyers and sellers get to know each other, and that's fine. while I'm no tag pimp fan I see no reason the landowner shouldn't be able to sell his tag any way or to anyone he wants, this looks like another case of government getting involved where they're not needed.
 
"I see no reason the landowner shouldn't be able to sell his tag any way or to anyone he wants, this looks like another case of government getting involved where they're not needed"

The landowner still can sell his tag to whoever and however he wants. If they want the money for the tag, they should take the time themselves to make that money. Not just get it handed to them. The whole concept of the landowner tag is for the landowner to be compensated for the wildlife that use the land. That is what is happening. Why should they be able to sell, resale, and resale again? As I mentioned before, the landowner probably doesn't make near what the broker makes when selling these tags. So why should a broker be the one making all the money off a tag that was supposed to compensate the landowner? Doesn't make much sense to me.

As for the government, I guess we should boycott all F&G departments and run it ourselves without any government involvement whatsoever. Maybe then, everybody could get whatever tag they wanted wherever they wanted, and whenever they wanted.





It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Cabelas is a major tag broker. They have a defacto offer out to alot of ranchers to buy up their LO tags.

If a rancher sells his 10 elk tags to Cabelas for 2000/ea. Cabelas brokers them for 4000/ea to an outfitter who charges 10000. Thats generating a lot of funds.

Seems like it would benefit the rancher to just sell his tags on ebay for 4000.00 and cutout Cabelas and possibly the guide service. If a hunter spends 4K on the tag, he can hire the guide or maybe even the rancher for an extra expense. Or go it alone, like most of us hunt. The way I see it, this is a chance for the ranchers to make a bit more coin whilst keeping corporations and succubus outfitters out of their pockets.

I have to smile a bit when thinking that this may further impact USO...LOL!
 
I agree that ebay would be the way to get top dollar for a tag, I'd bid on them there . that aside if the landowner wants to sell his tag for $50 and the broker gets $4000 for it that's between the broker and the landowner. I know a little about this because I used to lease the goose hunting on my property to an outfitter for $500 a year, he took lots of clients on me for $150 a day, I knew he was making good money but I didn't care because it was no hassle to me. maybe some landowners in Colorado feel the same way and they're happy with things the way they are. this is much about nothing , the landowner will get his tags sold and most of them will go to nonres hunters anyway so big deal.
 
How many of you guys subscribe to newsletters (I won't mention any names)? If the new landowner tag changes occur I would be mighty unhappy if the magazine/services didn't offer their subscribers a list of landowners and their contact info. It doesn't seem right to me that they would eliminate this service to their clients even though they aren't making a profit!

One thing the CDOW may want to do is offer a list of units with landowner contact info. This would make it easier for both hunters and landowners to match up? I really think this is a good deal for landowners and will eliminate some of the controversial stuff that has been going on.

My biggest complaint has always been that landowner tags are valid on private and public land! Hopefully this problem will be resolved in the near future as well!
 
Seems to me that if a landowner is selling a permit through ebay wouldnt that be the same thing as a 3rd party broker???? ebay is making money on the sale of that permit!!!! I would say that would be considered illegal with the new wording!!!
 
At the forefront of this arguement should be the point that wildlife is owned by the state, and it's citizens.
These tags grant noone the right to control or own anything, so to discuss them as though they are a commodity is a bit of a misnomer.
Landowner tags were established under the assupmtion that either the landowner wished to enjoy hunting his own property and/or to reduce crop damage. I would also accept that selling these tags would assist in defraying cost incured by animals to the landowner through loss of crop.
HOWEVER, the big dollars being made off the whoring of these tags now is a loophole that should have been closed the moment it was first taken advantage of. No third party should be allowed to extort this kind of margin (upwards of 50%) from the state nor the landowner!
If bringing all parties together becomes a problem, a nominal 'finders fee', of say $50 could be adopted. That sounds fare and reasonable to all parties.
Regardless, those landowners who wish to distribute their tags WILL find a method to advertise the availablity, so those who are concerned about having to go "knock on doors", rest easy...

Just my opinion.
 
I'm curious how they will enforce this system. Does anyone know? Here is how I see it shaking out. Joe Broker brings 10 guys who want vouchers to Lance the Landowner. Lance pays Joe "X" amount of money for each voucher sold.Broker still makes his money. I am also curious how they will monitor how many times a voucher is sold? If A LO wants to sell a Voucher on ebay, I can see a bidding war on the horizon that will create prices that are higher than they are now. I think the CDOW is creating a loop hole nightmare unless they can create a system that is enforceable.
Many guys are so quick to say we shouldn't have our public resource up for sale, yet don't many LO's support our wildlife during the winter months.Therefore, doesn't it make sense to compensate them with a small portion of the resource they support.Ranching is a tough business to be in. If you aint making it, your selling out to developers. Cutting the broker out of the picture does not hurt my feelings, but the same people who wanted brokering gone also feel the Vouchers should be good for the LO land only.Most animals are not on the LO land until after the seasons, thus making many of the vouchers worthless.That big nontypical you are hunting in the high country is probably wintering on Lance the LO land. Think about it! When Lance finally throws in the towel on ranching, and sells out to a developer, who is the winner?

Mike
 
This news is great! One thing everyone should keep in mind is,
many landowners that registered for landowner tags this year will
not register again if the law is enforced to allow access to the
property they use to qualify for the tags! That agreement is an important part of the landowner voucher system! Plus landowners that
are legitimate and are willing to live up to their part of the bargain will still have excellent opportunity to profit from the
voucher system! Plus, more acreage that actually does benefit wildlife should qualify for the vouchers! THANK YOU and ECELLENT
job to the CO WILDLIFE COMMISSION

Bud
 
Brian,
I am a guide and outfitter and I support this 100%. It's because of the brokers that this got out of hand in the first place. You know the ones I'm talking about (one of which is advertising heavily on your sight), selling expensive tags to people just to have the unit go undersubscribed and have all of the private land locked up. I have been told by brokers that they don't know who to contact to gain access but they won't hesitate to sell you that high priced tag. I am anxious to see just what these landowner tags will sell for. I for one will be hunting Colorado this year for sure if the tags are cheaper!!

It's always an adventure!!!
 
I say good for Colorado, a step in the right direction. The average Joe just won a major victory, as they deserved a break finally...
 
Personally, I am for the change, If you are a broker who is making money off of these you wont like it.....Get off the couch and do your home work, Go meet some landowners,make a relationship with one it may pay off.....Whats next brokers selling a contact list of landowners for big money?
 
I am not to sure that this will fix anything. Do you all remember that the landowner tags last year were changed to require landowners to allow access to private land. Well the "tag pimps" (couldn't help myself)made the hunters sign a waiver saying they didn't want to hunt the private and made them pay and additional 300.00 and the tag was purchased for them so the landowner name wasn't shown to the tag purchaser. Didn't change a damn thing. I don't think this will either, it is against the law in Colorado to transfer the tag more than once, well what happens if it is done in Utah-absolutely nothing, it is not against the law there. I have not heard of anything done to the waiver users. It may make everyone feel better but I don't think anything is going to change. It has to have some teeth to the law like the landowner that allows a second hand transfer will loose all future rights to tags. Then it will change, this as written is a feel good like last year that will not change anything. I hope I'm wrong but if there is no penalty for doing it than nothing will change.

Rich
 
Not sure that they can't get around it again, but it DOES have a provision stating that if the landwoner fails to comply with these changes, they many lose their vouchers for up to 5 years.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I dont see how it will change much. Now all the brokers will have to do is put people in contact with the landowners and get a percentage of the cost of the tag. The tag is only transfered once and the brokers still make coin.

Am I wrong? Am I missing something? They will find another loophole.

Drum
 
Has anyone ever heard of supply and demand? Do you really think landowners are going to struggle selling their tags...especially in the premium units? I'm sure many guys are already frothing at the mouth waiting to see if this is a done deal and many have already started contacting landowners! It may give landowners incentive to produce whopper bucks on their property! Bigger bucks will bring them bigger bucks!
 
A lot of folks here claiming they like this idea. If so, be sure to send those e-mails soon. The commission meets next week.
 
Mmmmm so let me get this straight?, people would pay thousands of dollars for a Landowner voucher and then not be able to hunt on the land the voucher was good for? and just how were hunters with land owner vouchers using them to hunt on public land?
 
I can see the next loophole is a voucher matchmaker/dating service. You bring together a buyer and a seller and let the quest for big bucks and bulls combined with some money be the "love connection."

There aren't many secrets out there tag brokers have a LONG list of interested and eligible landowners with potential tags for sale and many of these will still be used on public land competing with all of you for public land elbow room and big bucks.

Its a nice token gesture and will solve some of the issues but not the biggest one and thats public land hunting opportunities for sale by private parties.

For all of you getting your underwear knotted up about lost opportunity. No worries. Its still there. It just might take a little more homework.

If I was a tag-broker, I'd be howling like a stuck cat also because the only affect these changes really have is cutting me out of the loop. That is unless I start a new webservice like www.voucherLOVEconnection.com
 
Buckspy, you're right. That's why when everyone sends in those e-mails, they need to recommend making the tags valid only on the property they were issued for.
 
>I dont see how it will
>change much. Now all
>the brokers will have to
>do is put people in
>contact with the landowners and
>get a percentage of the
>cost of the tag.
>The tag is only transfered
>once and the brokers still
>make coin.
>
>Am I wrong? Am I missing
>something? They will find
>another loophole.
>
>Drum

Only for 1 year... then the hunters will know the phone # of the landowner himself and will buy it directly :D

'Tis a great thing long over due.


-DallanC
 
I talked to a friend of mine that has a big ranch by Gunnison and he said that since this information hit the presses his phone has rang off the hook. He has a list of names 2 pages long of people that want tags. He has guys offer to pay him money now even before he knows how many tags he has. He told me that the reason for the big change is because of dishonest brokers that promised big money to the land owner, sold the tags and kept the majority of the profits. The landowners are wiser now. So much for picking up these tags cheaper. With that kind of demand they will be more than they were before.

It's always an adventure!!!
 
I am in total agreement with this rule. Hopefully, this is just a start to the revampment of the so called "Landowner Tags". It should also state that, you can only hunt on the property of that landowner, not the entire unit. I thought the purpose of the "Landowner Tags" was to control the population of the wildlife on that certain property, not to turn a buck! These so called "Brokers" make me sick to my stomach. I could really care less if they go out of buisness or not. Hunting shouldn't be a buisness. It's a time to get out and enjoy the outdoors with our friend and family, and to help manage the herds. I guess all those millionares out there, can put into the draw like everyother "blue collar" hunter!
 
You guys amuse me, as pointed out above the landowners are getting tons of calls about tags. Apparantly everyone thinks they are going to be cheaper and available, WRONG. People are lining up trying to get landowners phone numbers so they can a piece of the pie that they thought was wrongfully taken from them. I'm wondering how many of those phone calls are from some of you voucher haters. We should mark the date and revisit in a year. I am sure that some of you would bend if you were offered a 21 3rd season tag for 500.00 bucks. You guys would be crawling over each other if you were honest about it. Don't tell me that you wouldn't hunt the best unit in the state if it was available to you on principle.

Rich
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-07 AT 11:53PM (MST)[p]
>Don't tell me that you
>wouldn't hunt the best unit
>in the state if it
>was available to you on
>principle.
>
>Rich


Must be coming from a man without principles. I think many of you don't understand how passionately some people feel about the idea that our wildlife should not be available to the highest bidder. I won't be falling over anybody to get to the tags. They'll still be going to the highest bidder and some of us will still be writing the Wildlife Commission trying to get them limited to the property for which they're issued.
 
Lost- I sure hope they sell for only $500.00 My guess is that you won't be able to touch one of those tags for under $2000, some will go for a lot more than that.

ColoradoOak - I do agree with you as far as the tags being for private land. If the landowner is going to benefit from the tags then you should be able to hunt their land. Basically all you are doing is paying a tresspass fee. You still have to buy your big game hunting license. I bought a landowner tag in 2005 and found most if not all of the shooter bucks hanging out low on private land. As far as principles go, you can believe what you want and put yourself above others but you're FOS if you think that people who buy these tags don't have principles. You're going to have to find a different tree to bark up than the one you're under.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Colorado Oak,

I appreciate the personal attack and saying I am without principles just because I believe that something different from you. You know nothing of what I stand for or who I am. I won't attack you, however not everyone has that passion of hating the voucher system as bad as you do. I have stated before I buy vouchers, but I still think there needs to be reform in the system because there are abuses currently. Hopefully if they change the rules, the make them so they are enforceable and not turn out to be lip service.

Rich
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-07 AT 02:27AM (MST)[p]Hey guys, don't get your panties in a bunch. Up in post 58 Rich told me what my principles are. As far as I know, he doesn't know me. Maybe we just have different principles. Fair enough.
 
Fair enough. I think we all have principles, although they may be different. We are all in this thing together and hopefully with the benefit of wildlife in mind.

It's always an adventure!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-07 AT 11:36AM (MST)[p]1st question.Why has it been set up so secret in which landowners get tags? Any landowner that gets tags should be identified with a name and phone number.Just like UTAHs CWMUs.

2nd,this will eliminate to a point,tag pimping.But if you think prices will come down, your kidding your self...If anyone thinks this will give them a shot a a tag,cheaper.NOT gonna happen,the same guys will get the same tags either way...
 
Colorado Oak,

Wasn't telling you what your principles are, not my intent. I have listed prior that I have contacts for a landowner and vouchers and that I support the system. I buy them directly from a landowner who doesnt like the brokers either. I then receive tons of emails and private messages and some of the names I have recognized as voucher bashers. I am just not believing that this change will change much unless it has some teeth to it. I think reform is needed also so we are not that far apart.

Rich
 
What does MM have in common with tag brokers?

I can't transfer my license even once. What purpose was served by letting land owner vouchers be used as a commodity?
 
The landowners are still allowed to sell the vouchers. They can ask whatever price they want. This only eliminates the middleman. For years the ranchers have sold to the brokers; now they sell direct. Often the brokers sold for several times the amount they paid.

I don't see this hurting the landowner at all. If he wants to sell, all he has to do is advertise and he'll have more buyers than he knows what to do with.
 

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