Coddling the workforce

BLooDTRaCKeR

BLooDTRaCKeR

Very Active Member
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It seems to be a job seekers market right now. However, it is becoming very disturbing to see the “entitlement” job seekers feel they deserve everything for very little in return. As a hiring manager, we cannot find strong candidates fast enough to hire. We struggle to find the necessary skill sets to run our business efficiently.

On the other hand, we (management team) are told to “treat our employees better than we would want to be treated and let things go when it comes to things they need “coached on” because our employees will leave us and walk across the street to get a job for the same amount of money.”

So this is what it has come to…..coddling the workforce and teaching them it is ok to demand things because you will get it.

We recently introduced a incentive bonus for new hires to lure them over to our business vs competition. The rest of employees said, “where’s mine?” So HR made it fair for everyone and paid all existing hourly employees hiring bonuses AND back-payed them through first week of July. They also increased their wages. Now they all sit around in a brand new manufacturing plant and do nothing until a manager “asks” them (not tells them because that is considered rude) to do a task.

This new behavior is being promoted and employees are taking advantage of it. Our throughputs are terrible. I am sure this newly promoted behavior is becoming the norm with current generation. This “coddling” problem amongst others has caused a lazy workforce and continues to threaten the supply chain globally, making once easy to find products hard to find or non existent.

What are y’all seeing in your neck of the woods?
 
In 09' after nearly a year of of chasing work, being beat down on bids, and having contractors burn us, I bailed. Went to work in a food warehouse.

At first I was happy to have a job with a regular paycheck. But then, it started. The "what else are you going to do no one is hiring" comments from bosses. The list of dudes on the hire list being a mile long being made known to anyone who had an issue. They had the power, and they knew it, and they flexed it whenever it suited them

Meanwhile, these same companies flexed on truck drivers, manufacturing plants, producers, etc.

My friends who tried to outlast Obama in construction list their life savings, houses, etc as the only building being done was by the largest contractors, who took full advantage of their power and beat down prices erasing any gains made in the previous decade.

So, SUCK IT, is my answer to buisnesses whining now. Employees have long memories, and they remember being bent over. They know for certain, that given the chance, they will be again.

Yeah my materials have skyrocketed. Mostly because truck drivers are flexing their power. And good for them. Buisnesses won't start a go fund me for them in the future as autonomous trucks come on line.

In the old days you hired on, worked your lifetime, retired with the same company. Those COMPANIES, decided to outsource to China, import from the 3rd world, cut pensions, etc, etc, etc. Now they can reap what they sowed, I personally have little patience for the pity party.

For small buisnesses, it's different. But the larger ones, too damn bad
 
I would definitely agree that it's getting much harder to find good employees, at every skill level. Our company has always paid better than the competition, because we needed to keep good people, and we believe they earn it. In the mid 90's when I was in charge of hiring, our retention/return rate was over 100% ( college kids coming back, or mothers returning after a year off included). Truck drivers were available and wanted to work.
In the past decade, at least, that workforce has become harder tp attract. Production is hampered on the weekends and nights because people aren't coming into work, and they "know" they have job security. So we're automating as much as we can, which is extremely expensive, but reliable. When the workforce wants to come back, there will be fewer employment options available for them.

hwy
 
I was talking to an employee of the company I retired from and he told me the company just gave everybody a 5% raise plus a bonus check. The bonus check depended on how long they have been there. His bonus check was $25K. That's why I worked there for 31 years. Years ago we got a bonus check there and I paid my house off with it. The easiest way to get fired there was to say the word union though.
 
I retired last year from "management". What I saw over the last decade was a clear trend of younger employees viewing their jobs less as a career and more as a means to an end. I'm guessing the %$#@! pandemic has exacerbated that considerably, as it appears governments have supplied considerable funds in the place of earned paychecks. Some of this seems to be our youth growing up in households with little financial stress (compared to generations past). Some of it is they way companies view/treat employees, especially in a "global" economy. No matter the cause, I agree with DW- the trend continues in the wrong direction.
 
In the last ten years I’ve had 8 apprentices only two I had more than a couple months. The work ethic is pathetic for 20-40 years of age. They all want to be the boss and just point fingers. Come around the corner and their on the phone. My cousin it usually was excepted because it was a nude pick from a Snapchat that he would share with me!
 
BLooDTRaCKeR said:
It seems to be a job seekers market right now. However, it is becoming very disturbing to see the “entitlement” job seekers feel they deserve everything for very little in return. As a hiring manager, we cannot find strong candidates fast enough to hire. We struggle to find the necessary skill sets to run our business efficiently.

On the other hand, we (management team) are told to “treat our employees better than we would want to be treated and let things go when it comes to things they need “coached on” because our employees will leave us and walk across the street to get a job for the same amount of money.”

So this is what it has come to…..coddling the workforce and teaching them it is ok to demand things because you will get it.

We recently introduced a incentive bonus for new hires to lure them over to our business vs competition. The rest of employees said, “where’s mine?” So HR made it fair for everyone and paid all existing hourly employees hiring bonuses AND back-payed them through first week of July. They also increased their wages. Now they all sit around in a brand new manufacturing plant and do nothing until a manager “asks” them (not tells them because that is considered rude) to do a task.

This new behavior is being promoted and employees are taking advantage of it. Our throughputs are terrible. I am sure this newly promoted behavior is becoming the norm with current generation. This “coddling” problem amongst others has caused a lazy workforce and continues to threaten the supply chain globally, making once easy to find products hard to find or non existent.

What are y’all seeing in your neck of the woods?
Click to expand...

That's what happens when you run someone's resume through a program to match key words from the resume against the job description. They've learned how to fool the system.

You want to find skilled and competent people, try reading a resume and ditch the search software...
 
roadrunner said:
That's what happens when you run someone's resume through a program to match key words from the resume against the job description. They've learned how to fool the system.

You want to find skilled and competent people, try reading a resume and ditch the search software...
Click to expand...
Uhh...this seems a bit simplistic. Don't you think that it might be a little more complex than Bloodtracker just needing to personally look at resumes?

"Dang computers! Get off my lawn!" ;)

To answer the question, yes, I think the trend is clearly moving toward people that don't know how to work. On the bright side, my son is a good worker and he has gotten a fantastic job that pays really well. So in this market, if you are a good worker and prove it, companies will pay like crazy to keep you!

Most of the people that I have hired the last few years have been really great workers, I am thankful! There were a couple of times that I had to help younger people learn how to work but they were always receptive. The couple bad eggs have been older actually. These younger kids are different than past generations in that they are much more collaborative and team oriented than older generations. They have a harder time working alone but we have created a more team oriented feel at my organization and we have seen excellent results!
 
I had 2 15yr olds haul 56 sheets of sheetrock into a basement this morning. Hard wrap around staircase.

Supply yard charges $250 to stock a basement. They split $250, and I bought lunch.

2hrs. They were done. Clean. No issues. No broken board.

$62.50hr.

Amazing how being fair, makes gen z work.


The stock yard pays $21 an hour. My board is usually busted up.

I bid the $250. They got the $250.

It's almost as if you don't f*** folks, they work.
 
roadrunner said:
That's what happens when you run someone's resume through a program to match key words from the resume against the job description. They've learned how to fool the system.

You want to find skilled and competent people, try reading a resume and ditch the search software...
Click to expand...
I get your point. And a lot of that goes on for hiring non-skilled workers. I am looking for skilled labor. Been trying to hire since last November and still do not have a full crew. The reason being is I screen every resume and I do all the interviewing for my crew. I make final decision. Been in maintenance for over 20 years. Started at the bottom as a mechanic. I know what I am looking for but cannot find it and I’m not about to give in and hire someone that can fog a window. HR is getting on my case for not having a full crew. I told them I’m not the problem and stop being part of the problem and find me people that meet my criteria for the job.
 
hossblur said:
I had 2 15yr olds haul 56 sheets of sheetrock into a basement this morning. Hard wrap around staircase.

Supply yard charges $250 to stock a basement. They split $250, and I bought lunch.

2hrs. They were done. Clean. No issues. No broken board.

$62.50hr.

Amazing how being fair, makes gen z work.


The stock yard pays $21 an hour. My board is usually busted up.

I bid the $250. They got the $250.

It's almost as if you don't f*** folks, they work.
Click to expand...
The guy who got screwed was the guy who accepted the $250 bid to stock his basement. And no 15 year old is worth $62.50/hr. for grunt work. You'll ruin them.
 
eelgrass said:
The guy who got screwed was the guy who accepted the $250 bid to stock his basement. And no 15 year old is worth $62.50/hr. for grunt work. You'll ruin them.
Click to expand...


Bullchit.

They were worth whatever the rate is.

That $250 IS THE RATE. Doesn't matter if it's 1sheet, or 200. Stock yards charge it. I give homeowners the option to do it themselves. Never had one take me up.

57lbs per sheet.

Those 2boys learned a valuable lesson. Show up. Haul azz, be professional, get paid.
 
hossblur said:
Bullchit.

They were worth whatever the rate is.

That $250 IS THE RATE. Doesn't matter if it's 1sheet, or 200. Stock yards charge it. I give homeowners the option to do it themselves. Never had one take me up.

57lbs per sheet.

Those 2boys learned a valuable lesson. Show up. Haul azz, be professional, get paid.
Click to expand...
I just got done hauling 74 sheets into my basement. After doing the math….over two tons moved today….I think I need a massage. Still have another 40 to go…

If I was running a sheet rock business, you better believe I would pay some young hands the going rate to get it done. My hero days are long gone lol!
 
bonepicker said:
Uhh...this seems a bit simplistic. Don't you think that it might be a little more complex than Bloodtracker just needing to personally look at resumes?

"Dang computers! Get off my lawn!" ;)

To answer the question, yes, I think the trend is clearly moving toward people that don't know how to work. On the bright side, my son is a good worker and he has gotten a fantastic job that pays really well. So in this market, if you are a good worker and prove it, companies will pay like crazy to keep you!

Most of the people that I have hired the last few years have been really great workers, I am thankful! There were a couple of times that I had to help younger people learn how to work but they were always receptive. The couple bad eggs have been older actually. These younger kids are different than past generations in that they are much more collaborative and team oriented than older generations. They have a harder time working alone but we have created a more team oriented feel at my organization and we have seen excellent results!
Click to expand...

Job postings used to be open for longer periods to get a good sampling of resumes/applications. Then the contacting, interviews, follow-ups, and finally offers/rejections. Took a fair amount of time

Then came in the recruiters/headhunters that did all the screening and searching for their client. All the client had to do was interview the best candidates they trusted their search firm to find.

Each of these required personal contact.

Then came the algorithms to match buzz words and key phrases. Candidates could lie initially just to get an interview and, if they were good talkers, they could fool enough young managers to get into the door.

Candidates today have learned, through platforms like LinkedIn, how to continue to sell themselves with nothing more than an "I want it now" approach.

When I reviewed resumes, you could usually tell the ones who had something to offer from those who didn't. Search algorithms let those who don't have much to offer into the door.
 
hossblur said:
Those 2boys learned a valuable lesson. Show up. Haul azz, be professional, get paid.
Click to expand...
When they get a regular entry level job they will have to show up for 8 hours, haul azz, be professional, and get paid a lot less.

That $250 IS THE RATE. Doesn't matter if it's 1sheet, or 200. Stock yards charge it.

I don't understand. Explain please.

You paid them $62.50/hr. Was that so you could dodge the worker's comp, and all the required witholdings and other benefits real employees earn?
 
Do you think the "real employees" do it better?

Nope. They make an hourly rate. They move 10 sheets, or 100.

So what do you think they do? Bare minimum.

Those kids knew it was $250. They could take 2hrs, or 20. Same payday.

Incentive work always makes better employees.

Their boss, me, gets paid per square ft, not hour. Ain't no time clock. Ain't no 8 hour day.

Simple math. Job pays x, it's up to YOU to decide your hourly rate.

Speed, quality, efficiency.

But as the boss, I didn't take "my cut", for doing nothing.

Further. My homeowner was more than Impressed to see 2young dudes, busting azz.

They were covered in sweat, breathing heavy.

I was impressed. But, it wasn't the first job they did for me.

Now I could be like other companies. Charge $250, stop by home Depot grab some Mexicans, give them $50, and pocket the difference. Then ***** because "young dudes won't work".
 
I remember very clearly just before my senior year in High School I had a few side jobs bucking hay during the summer, we'd get paid by the bale ($.25 or $.30, each something like that) to load them and stack them on the trailer and unload them and stack them in the barn. My friend and I worked our tails off and got fast and we ended up making something like $50 an hour for some of those jobs toward the end of the summer. That was back when minimum wage was like $4 an hour. That didn't ruin me, it made me a better worker, I realized that the harder and faster I worked, the quicker I would make the money.
 
The fact is, this is a job-seekers market. There are exceptions to every rule, but the work ethic is much different than it was a decade ago.
 
roadrunner said:
That's what happens when you run someone's resume through a program to match key words from the resume against the job description. They've learned how to fool the system.

You want to find skilled and competent people, try reading a resume and ditch the search software...
Click to expand...
One interview I had was probably the best and I gained some knowledge in it. I got the job and afterwards was talking with one on the people interviewing me and he said they interviewed about 20 engineers and just went down their resumes line by line asking how did you to the accomplishments listed on the resume. They all told about the team and non did the work listed. I thought that was a good way to weed out.
 
Today's Job Interview:

Question #1:

Do You Smoke/Vape & Promise You'll Waste 2 Hours a day on Smoke Breaks?

Question #2:

Do You F'Off on Your Phone Talking/TEXTing Several Hours of the Work Day?

Question #3:

Do You Promise to be a NON-Profitable Employee for Your Employer?

If You Answered YES To All 3 Questions You're F'N Hired!
 
elkassassin said:
Today's Job Interview:

Question #1:

Do You Smoke/Vape & Promise You'll Waste 2 Hours a day on Smoke Breaks?

Question #2:

Do You F'Off on Your Phone Talking/TEXTing Several Hours of the Work Day?

Question #3:

Do You Promise to be a NON-Profitable Employee for Your Employer?

If You Answered YES To All 3 Questions You're F'N Hired!
Click to expand...
where I work they only care if you are non white or lgbtqabcdeff+
yes to one of those and you are hired and promoted!
 
Last edited:
I dunno guys. At the end of the day we all have a project to complete. You can talk all you want about waiting to hire the right person but I'm certain your project/s won't complete itself.

One of the managers in my group lost 3 heads recently and she is currently doing all their work because she's "waiting" to find these perfect employees.

If you want the best then you better pay the best. Hoping to find these superstars and pay them less than the comp is rare. Even if you do hire one they'll wise up and leave.
 
As a Foreman for an electrical contractor the number one issue I'm seeing is paying based solely on licence status. Now days its bare minimum work being done, because as earlier stated they can go down the road and get another job if they don't like the work load or project.
Some guys do great others don't and all get paid the same because of "YEAR".
IMO, Pay should be merit based, paid based off skill, speed, quanity and quality.
Work hard, get paid for it..
 
BLooDTRaCKeR said:
It seems to be a job seekers market right now. However, it is becoming very disturbing to see the “entitlement” job seekers feel they deserve everything for very little in return. As a hiring manager, we cannot find strong candidates fast enough to hire. We struggle to find the necessary skill sets to run our business efficiently.

On the other hand, we (management team) are told to “treat our employees better than we would want to be treated and let things go when it comes to things they need “coached on” because our employees will leave us and walk across the street to get a job for the same amount of money.”

So this is what it has come to…..coddling the workforce and teaching them it is ok to demand things because you will get it.

We recently introduced a incentive bonus for new hires to lure them over to our business vs competition. The rest of employees said, “where’s mine?” So HR made it fair for everyone and paid all existing hourly employees hiring bonuses AND back-payed them through first week of July. They also increased their wages. Now they all sit around in a brand new manufacturing plant and do nothing until a manager “asks” them (not tells them because that is considered rude) to do a task.

This new behavior is being promoted and employees are taking advantage of it. Our throughputs are terrible. I am sure this newly promoted behavior is becoming the norm with current generation. This “coddling” problem amongst others has caused a lazy workforce and continues to threaten the supply chain globally, making once easy to find products hard to find or non existent.

What are y’all seeing in your neck of the woods?
Click to expand...
Same stuff attendance is optional and you can’t tell anyone to get their azz in gear they want 20$ for waking up not even working
 

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