Colo Muzzies

[jims]

I noticed the post in regard to legal bullets in Colo. There is some great info there. I have another question that has been haunting me. I am looking for a new inline in 50 caliber. From everything I have read sabots work great in muzzies such as the TC Omega and Pro Hunter but from what I understand these same muzzies shoot conicals or bullets that would be legal in Colo) only fair to mediocre. My understanding is that the false muzzle in these units has something to do with this?

Anyway, I was wondering if there is a particular muzzleloader that would shoot conicals better than the Omega and Pro Hunter or if they all would be somewhat comparible? I noticed Knight has a Long Range muzzy that supposedly is guaranteed to shoot 4" groups at 200 yards. I would think this guarantee is in reference to sabots only and probably topped with a scope?

I am also curious if there is night and day difference between sabot performance, ballistics, and range of shots compared to conicals? I haven't really been able to find any of this kind of literature anywhere. I imagine a lot changes with particular muzzleloaders, loads, etc?

I originally was going to purchase a TC Pro Hunter because I am currently looking for 30 caliber rifle as well as the muzzy. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[MLKeith]

The number one conical shooter is a White. The problem is that the company is in and out of business and the rifles are difficult to obtain. I have one I just bought on an auction site and another being built. I understand that there may be a few rifles still available from White if you move quickly. Another possiblilty is the NEF Sidekick and the Huntsman as they are also known to shoot conicals quite well. I am sure that there are others. Most of the T/C rifles are sort of questionable as to how well they will perform with conicals. Heavy conicals will buck wind better than the lighter bullets but the trajectory is less flat than the lighter sabot/bullet combinations. Heavy conicals will anchor larger animals like elk better than the lighter bullets. If you are basically hunting deer the sabot/bullet combinations are plenty good.

 

[ElkScout]

LAST EDITED ON May-15-07 AT 11:02AM (MST)[p]I am in a similar situation as you jims. I want to get a new ML for hunting in CO this fall. Cow elk for this year anyway and I have read and listened to actual T/C owners regarding the questionable accuracy for non-saboted bullets in those.

So I have looked elsewhere. The Whites are too much hassle for me even though guys that own them really like 'em. Since they are not available and the company is questionable, I can't seem to find them anywhere.

I have considered Knights, however I do not like the required use of DISCs in their guns. Other than that, I think they are a good option. Specifically the Revolution II.

I have (so far) narrowed it down to a Winchester Apex or a Traditions Pursuit XLT. I am leaning towards the Traditions. I have seen both side by side and the Winchester is definitely heavier. The open sights on both are good. The stock, however, on the Traditions in Camo is outstanding. It has a soft feel to it and in a thumbhole (my preference), it just felt really good to me. The Win Apex camo was rubbing off in the areas used most. I also like the break-open design of the Traditions, but that is personal preference. The recoil pads seemed comparable as well, both good.

I have been trying to research others Pursuit owners who shoot conicals or powerbelts and that has been difficult. I have not found anyone who has experience and can say anything about their accuracy. But (perceived worse case) it will be easier to settle for 2" groups with a $350 rifle than it will from a $700 T/C.

ElkScout

 

[bigblock455]

Which ever rifle you guys buy, spend the $30 and have a limbsaver recoil pad put on. I shooting 385 grain bullets out of my rifle and i used to take a beating until i put the limbsaver on. It truely does help tame recoil and you'll want to try heavier bullets. As for a colorado muzzy, i use a winchester muzzleloader. I never handled the apex, but i did handle a traditions XLT thumbhole and that rifle was awesome. Dont fret about the rifles weight either! If you're hunting the barren grounds in colorado, lets say like Meeker area, its windy and a light weight rifles will easily sway with the wind when you shoulder it in the open field. Mines a little over 8lbs and thats helped me big time when long range shots. Also helps cut down recoil.

 

[bragabit]

I definantly would not steer away from the Knight because of the DISC. I have a knight DISC and I personally like the using the DISC. I think that it makes it alot easier to load and unload . I can open the bolt and turn the gun over and the disc falls out to unload. I usually carry four or five DISC in my pocket and can grab one and have it loaded in no time. If I was buying new I would buy the Knight Long Range Hunter. I don't shoot conicle so I don't know how they perform in the Knight. I have seen how they shoot out of a White, and they are great. Maybe keep your eyes open for a used White if you want a gun for Colorado.

 

[jims]

Bragabit, Do you have any experience or know anyone that has used the Knight Long Range Hunter. I looked it up on their website and it is guaranteed to shoot groups at 200 yards, adjustable trigger, and several other features that look mighty good. It is a lot higher priced than most muzzies so better be worth it! Thanks for the details in your posts!

 

[fairchase]

jims,
I have yet to own a LR Hunter, but all my Knight's shoot full bore conicals quite well. The Green Mountain barrels seem to shoot alot of different bullets pretty good. Also, all of their rifles have adjustable triggers and they will adjust them for free.
I haven't heard that the LR Hunter is more accurate than any of their other rifles, unlike the Disc Elite which is known as their most accurate offering because of its wishbone shaped barrel lug. Unfortunately, Knight choose to discontinue them a few years ago. If you get the LR Hunter please follow up with a range report and let us know if its worth the extra money. Thanks.

 

[bragabit]

I do have friend who has one and he said that it shoots awesome. He has never quoted me any qroups. I read a big write up about it in guns and ammo magazine. They seemed to be pretty impressed. Keep in mind that the 200 yard guarentee is with one specific load. I think that it is with the new Knight copper bullet with the polimer tip, and about 120 grains of 777 powder.(I Think) I wish I had more info for you.

 

[jims]

A buddy of mine brought up a really good pt. In states like Colo where you are limited to not using a scope it may not help a whole lot having a muzzy that can shoot accurately at 150+ yards. I have a feeling most hunters can't shoot tight enough groups past 150 yards unless they have a scope attached (even though the muzzy is capable of this)? A long range muzzy w/scope would definitely be worth looking into if you can use a high power scope, sabots, etc!

 

[cabinfever]

If one of the more reputable companies like TC or Knight would listen to their customers and build a conical shooter like the white, they would sell the heck out of them. For now, I'll stick with my white. I personally think that the conical is a better bullet than the sabot. I wish White would get their act together.

Mike

 

[tompolaris]

I think T/C has heard the public. I just got the new Triumph and becausre it's a T/C gun I sighted it in with 370 gr. T/C conicals. With factory sights(fiber optic) I put 4 rounds in a 4-5 inch circle @ 100 yards!! Again that's with open sights, so I think they are a match--- oh 777 propellant Colorado bound!!!!!

 

[jims]

Tom, I'd be curious to hear how your Triumph does past 100 yards? It probably is a lot tougher to figure out w/factory sights but I'd be interested in the drop and accuracy past 100 yards w/conicals. Thanks for your post!

 

[bigblock455]

I had a cheap $100 cva staghorn that would lay powerbelts in the 2" @ 100 yards. 4-5 with that TC and conicals shows that its finky with conicals. Or it could be that you may need to add some more powder. Do some experimenting and let us know.

 

[tompolaris]

Sorry our club range is a 100 yards max. I'll have to sneak in on anything further away.

 

[tompolaris]

With open sights your front bead covers more than 3-4 inches@ 100 yards so how do you keep 2-3 inch groups?

 

[bigblock455]

Aim @ the 6 o'clock position of the orange dot or in my case, black dot. I also have truglo Ghost ring sight that allows you to see the entire target and whats around it. Put those sights on my winchester and am getting constant 5/8" 3 shots groups @ 100 yards off sand bags. Thats shooting either a 350grain TC maxi hunter, 385 grain great plains bullet or my new favorite, a 385 grain Bull shop bullet.
The cva staghorn that held 2" groups @ 100 i didnt have for very long due to me buying the winchester muzzleloader, So i never got a chance to improve those groups.

I'd check out the truglo ghost ring sights on cabelas. I paid like $42 for them and it comes with 2 different styled rear sights.

 

[tompolaris]

i don't understand, what do you mean aim at the 6o'clock position of the orange dot. Do you mean 6 o'clock on the target dot? sorry

 

[bigblock455]

heres how i aim. Of course my front sight is a lot bigger @ 100 yards.
I just like aiming this way because it doesnt cover up the entire orange dot and theres no guess. I'll get a pic of my sights later on also.

 

[bigblock455]

Heres the ghost ring. I prefer this over all else.

 

[tompolaris]

Big Block ; Now I gwt it thanks much. This is how I come up on my archery targets when they get to 30 + yards. Thanks again I'll hit the range tmorow!!