Colorado mule deer annihilation...

[bucktaxi]

I think I'm ready to admit the glory days of Colorado mule deer hunting are gone. After many, many years of hunting mule deer in CO I think I had the worst year ever and I've hunted all over the western part of the state since 1991. From what I've seen the numbers are way down along with the quality. Talking with lots of other experienced hunters it seems as though they may be going the way of UT. The winter of 07'-08' took much more of a toll than anyone wanted to admit and now with the rifle seasons being so late, I believe the top end bucks CO is famous for will be all but shot out. The combination I fear will be devastation. Not only that, but all these folks that burned their points will not go home empty handed, and instead of shooting management bucks for meat, they'll be going for the young 4 points that have the best potential. I believe the DOW has been irresponsible with the way they've set up the seasons this year (and the following years) and will come to regret the decisions to leave their deer herd extremely vulnerable. Hunter opportunity is at an all time high and the herds are going to pay dearly. Like a lot of you, I've been saving points, but after what I've seen and heard this year, I'm worried the herds may never come back to what they were just a few years ago (or even 20 years ago). I know I make it sound like the end of the world, but I am deeply concerned with how things have changed.

I'll step down now (soap box), and ask if any of you have seen the same changes and/or think I'm full of crap??

Good hunting, Steve

 

[LuckyHntr]

Steve, it might help to know what area you were hunting in.

Not only do the mature bucks die (weakened by the rut) but when a bad winter hits but also the fawns which would normally survive are gone.

I believe the DOW is completely capable of messing up the units. Many times there game counts do not match first hand experience. The deer will have to be almost wiped out before they will respond.

Don't kill any does anywhere! Does this even need to be explained?

I think the 4th season tags will have a bad impact also. The gene pool will suffer. Why not let the 3rd season hunters give it their best and call it good?

 

[bucktaxi]

Southwestern near Durango, not sure that matters so much. The locals said there was a winter kill and the outfitter admitted to killing (helping) several big bucks last year. I know people from the whole SW quadrant of the state with the same or worst reports. It's reality, like it or not. 5 1/2 miles in one way and saw as many people as deer....4. That's in a huge basin 3 1/2 miles wide.

 

[tailchasers]

Numbers are still down from a few years ago but there are still plenty to be had just need to hunt smarter and harder. From what I heard the SW region got hit pretty good but for other areas of the state the past 3 summers have been wonderful for the critters and so far i'd say our fall season is looking good. In time the herd will rebound or DOW finances will faulter as will hunt satisfaction which will in turn cause them to adjust there strategy. Season dates might be set but not tag numbers.

 

[bigmoose]

bucktaxi... you are on the money with your thoughts. The deer herds have always come back in the past after winters with high mortality but as you mentioned with the season longer and later it is going to be a double whammy. It could be many years before we see the herds rebound.

Moose

 

[Lawrence]

I know of one 220"+ killed last week with a muzzleloader in a unit in western Co that is not a premier unit. My business partner killed a 28" 182 gross buck last year in a unit that is one that was severely impacted by the winter kill three years ago. It's certainly not what it was but I don't believe it's as bad as you think.

 

[ColoradoRam]

I do not like the 4th rifle hunt idea at all. I think the rifle season should end the beggining of the second week of November as not to effect the rut negatively. This year especially, the smart, more mature bucks are going to get hammered. If we get snow for the 3rd and 4th rifle to move the deer down, then we could have serious negative implications for the future of those herds. God forbid we have a bad winter as this could really lead to trouble with Colorado mule deer for the next decade.

In saying that, I am hunting in a part of Colorado that got it as bad as the Gunnison Basin did a few years ago. I have seen a good crop of fawns this year. Mature bucks are not plentiful but are there as they were before the severe winter. I honestly believe I have as good a chance in this area for a mature buck as I did 4 or 5 years ago when things were going well.

Anyone who drove through the Gunnison Basin, Middle Park or north of Craig a few years back knows the DOW was full of crap about how bad the winter was. In a trip to Gunnison in March, we counted over 60 dead deer on the road or in the fields from Monarch Pass to just east of Gunnison, I think about a 15 mile stretch.

The next fall we were hunting near Craig and the ranch was full of decomposed winter kill of both elk and deer from the previous year. How or if any antelope survived would be beyond me.

I have a 3rd season tag and mixed feelings about how to approach the hunt if I should even go at all. Good luck to those going out there and hunt hard.

 

[chris]

That new 4th season tag will put a big time hurting on the big mature deer, don't understand why the would create that season after extending the 3rd season, they should have just eliminated the 4th season. And for those saying you just got to hunt harder, it's not about that we understand there are still plenty of good deer now, it's about the future and having a season during the prime rut is not smart for our deer population!

 

[lostinOregon]

This is not an attempt to put down Colorado residents, but you have it much better than you think. Colorado is by far the best muley state and I don't think it is even close. The DOW may be listening to the wrong folks with the 4th season tags, but after 2011 the seasons will revert back to the earlier openings for the remainder of the 5 year season structure.

The DOW went to the draws in 99 and look at the results, if you look at Oregon for example a unit the size of 66 in Colorado, if it was in Oregon there would be between 2500 and 5K tags in one season. Mature deer are like bigfoot, if you see one it is legendary.

I have hunted colorado deer for the last 6 years and I understand that I have seen a drop in the quality and numbers of deer as a result of the winter of 08. I personally believe that 07 killed some deer off also.

Nevada has some great deer hunting but getting a tag is next to impossible for the late seasons. I guess I look at the positive side of it, but Colorado is my first choice for muleys everyear and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Rich

 

[Rob]

I would have to say that from what I experienced this year I'm somewhat in agreement with LostinOregon. This year was my first year hunting CO muleys and I was into 5 bucks all 4x4 and better in SW Colorado and saw only one other archer in a week. I didn't tag out, but it wasn't for lack of opportunity. Now since I have no previous experience w/ CO I can't tell you if numbers and quality are up or down, but I fell in love with the area. Coming from Cali all I can think about is going back to CO. If what I saw this season was a bad year then you CO guys truly have been spoiled. When you factor the opportunity to get a tag, the quality of the deer (from what I saw), and the beauty of the state I believe it's a great state for hunting.

 

[bucktaxi]

Rob, it has been a great state for hunting and I feel privileged to have hunted it so many times, but I'm not comparing it to anything but itself. Colorado has seen it's ups and downs but not like what may happen this year. Hell, before 99' when they went to full draw on tags, the Gunnison area buck to doe ratio was extremely low. They did a great job getting up to par and better, but with respect to the recent winters, and season dates, it could really go downhill fast. I believe they (DOW) are being irresponsible and we can only hope (unless you have a late season tag) that the "skies are clear and dry" this fall and winter. I don't want to sound selfish, but we could see devastation.

 

[Whiterock]

Anyone who is old enough to remember hunting 20 years ago,they will tell you that there is a decline in muledeer all over the west.I have not hunted deer in the last couple of years,as a public land hunter I have not been excited about what I have found.The last two trips I came home empty as all I saw was small forkies and spikes.There are still some good bucks to be found but not what there used to be.
If you got the money to hunt some of the ranch's,there is still some good hunting there.
A 28-30 inch public land muley is the toughest animal to find in the west.

 

[southmountain]

gee a bad hunt and now you say the sky is falling . the way I see it the good units are looking very good no not like 05 but getting etter after the hard winter and the lesser units are getting numbers up slowly

 

[buckbuster64]

I have hunted Colo the last 30-years,i have seen bad winter kills in the 80,s,but the deer rebounded in 2-3 years with bigger and better Bucks than before.The biggest change i see is more and more hunters on public land,when we first started hunting you could go all day and never see another hunter.The seasons then were combined three seasons the last being 10-day season ending middle of Nov.I feel loss of habitat and over hunting are your biggest reasons for lack of big bucks,they never let them live to get big in the units that have high tag counts.In the trophy units where tags are held down the big bucks are back.What it comes down to is$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[five_point_buck]

I have to give the DOW some credit...... they reacted to the carnage and cut tag numbers and have held to it.

In my unit (11/22 - 3rd season)tag numbers are still down close to 60% from before the "bad winter". IMO, The real issue effecting deer quantity in northwest Colorado is fuel exploration and increased roaded access resulting in loss of winter habitat. Add to that the lack of any real weather during the 3rd season over the last 10 years has reall slowed migration efforts and limited hunter opportunity. Habitat, poor migration weather and lower tags mean less success.... As for quality, I saw a few bucks last year that blew the doors off deer we'd been seeing in previous 2-3 years. I think the key is the limited tag numbers... I have hunted in 11/22 for 15 years and haven't pulled a tag in three years (caught in point limbo).

Thats my two cents. The added season dates and later (1 week) season start and stop could have a dramatic effect on hunter success... The other thing to remember is with a later start, there could be more weather. That means tougher access and bad news for the road hunting folks. I would think that would benefit the deer. Time will tell I guess...

five_point_buck
C.B.C.S.

 

[LuckyHntr]

Some posts have compared Colorado to other states and to Colorado's past. So, lets not compare to other states, just to say it could be worse. Colorado should have the best hunting because it does have some of the best Mule deer country in the west!

So, lets compare Colorado to the 50s, 60s and 70s! Yes, the glory years. Just remember you could hunt anywhere you wanted every darn year! There were tons of Californians and Texans who drove out by the truck loads. So, the only way we have got deer hunting back in some areas is by completely limiting the opportunity. Has everyone forgotten that??

I wouldn't trade two weeks for two days of the 70s for what we have today. I remember as a kid counting over 1,000 head of deer in less than 1/2 hour. I could barely count fast enough. When was the last time anyone has done that?? Now 20 or 30 deer are considered a lot.

I don't consider oil and gas development a problem at all. Look at the millions of acres available in those areas. What is a road, a dozen roads and hundred roads. Please, the range supported dozens of sheep outfits and tens of thousands more deer and could still do it. Yes sure look at the Vail valley and I-70. That does have an impact because the winter ground and migration routes have been taken away. Can't do much about it can we?

So, sure we can get excited when we draw that tag in a unit like 21. But remember how many hunters and how many deer we had at one time and we could hunt single every year anywhere we wanted.

My son will never have the opportunity to deer hunt like I had. I will repeat, my son will never have the opportunity to deer hunt like I had. He will have to put in a draw and then hunt every few years or so. What kind of opportunity is that??

Pete

 

[Sparky27]

I'm certainly no biologist, but my experience has been that deer hunting in CO has only improved since the 90s. Yes, it was fantastic in the 70s and into the 80s. But in the 90s we saw things get really bad. Places that used to be our hot spots just sucked. Now, after a decade of limited licenses, I think we're finally back in business! Once again we're seeing good deer in good numbers. I've even seen BIG deer in places that were crappy even during the hey-days of the late 70s. Sure, now it's limited and some areas you might not be able to hunt every year. It may take a point or two, but the hunting is TONS better than it was 10 years ago, in my opinion. I'm happy to hunt every other year or every two years for what we've gained in quality. Fact is, it's just not going to be like the late 70s again...too much demand now. But I think we've got the next best thing.

 

[bucktaxi]

It has been good the last several years but with the season structure the way it is and the decreased population, the hunting could really get creamed. Did anyone go to the DOW public meeting in the Roaring Fork area a couple of weeks ago. I heard they said the numbers were much lower than originally thought. CO has great management policies, and take good care micro managing, and counting deer in the winter, but this December may open some eyes. Who knows, maybe it'll be 70 degrees until December and the hunts will be tougher with many of the mature bucks surviving. We'll see.

 

[chris]

The point trying to be made is the new seasons, the deer population is ok right now but come next year and the following 2 will show you what the big deal is! When you hunt during the rut with rifles it will decimate the buck herds!

 

[bucktaxi]

One thing good about the CDOW is that they will limit the tags enough to keep from too much devastation happening to the herd in general. The problem this year is the worry of the top end bucks being killed, more than usual.

 

[LaGriz]

I to have been building points (now have 10)

what would you do with them if they were yours? I may burn
my Elk points next year in unit 61 - May plan on a muley hunt
in 2012. Do you think the numbers and quality will improve
enough to make it worth while to try at that time. The winter
kills if any will be the unknown factor in this plan.

Thaks for any input

Scott

 

[4000fps]

Steve, it is not an isolated thing you experienced. All of Colorado is bad, especially the units that people like Barf Carter exploit. 44 is the worst I have ever seen it in almost 30 years.

People think just because a few big bucks are shot in a unit each year, that the unit is fine. That has no correlation on herd health. I have said it before...if the DOW only got paid for a license once an animal was shot, they might actually do something to save the deer. As it is right now, they get paid regardless if you spend a week seeing nothing but chimpmunks.

 

[COhuntinsparky]

You know, when I first read this, I thought it was just a bunch of chicken littles and didn't pay it much mind, but then I realized something. They pushed the seasons back a week. Let me tell you what this means. For the last 7 years we have hunted elk in 4th season in my unit and we have seen some huge buck deer that paid absolutely no attention too us, just chasing does. 5 years ago the DOW issued a 4th season buck tag. Now they only issued 20 tags a year for an area bigger than New Jersey mind you, so I never really thought that was unreasonable. 4th season was always the third week of November. Last year for example it was the 11th through the 15th. Since they pushed the seasons back a week, and made the 3rd season 2 weekends, that time of they month falls during 3rd season. Are you sitting down for this next statement? For third season this year, during the same dates that 6 years ago they didn't even issue any tags and 20 per year for the last 5, they issued 500 either sex licenses and 300 buck tags. Now, I'm not a biologist, hell I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn express last night, but I know what I see during that week in November: Big bucks chasing does and not paying attention to anything else. I don't know how many big bucks we will lose, but I can tell you it won't be good. We'll see...

 

[wildsage]

Sparky, I'm not sure what unit you are refering to but you are right, it could be a real blood bath before the 4th season on the 17th. Not sure what the DOW is trying to do unless they think they will sell more tags because the rut will most likely start during the 3rd season. I do know that the elk rut was late, the bulls didn't start talking until the end of the bow season. Going to be a muddy 2nd season unless the rain turns to snow.


Wildsage

 

[bonedaddy]

this whole subject makes me sick to my stomach

 

[bucktaxi]

I feel the same way bonedaddy.....scares me to death, CO has been such a great deer hunting destination in the past, but I'm afraid those days are gone. The snow in the second season is just the start, but the big bucks will still be weary and begin to go off by themselves preparing for the rut, soon to come.

There will always be big bucks in CO for the taking because of the vast mule deer habitat (and vast private land for later seasons) but this year may be gruesome.

 

[sageman]

Why start the whining now,save the gloom & doom until after the season and we see the results.DOW has done outstanding work with Colorado mule deer in my opinion.Give the biologist(EXPERT PROFESSIONALS)the benefit of the dought....Jim

 

[BeanMan]

I wish it were the wildlife professionals who made the decisions. It's really the Wildlife Comissioners who make the final decisions. They are appointed by the Governor.

It's kind of odd, I tried to draw the 4th season tag in 41 for 4 years and ended up hunting 61 with those 4 ponits last year. This year I drew 41 3rd season with no points and it's about the same date as 4th season used to be. With the wet and mucky weather so far this 2nd season it is setting the table for 3rd season.

 

[flymetyme]

I hunted this year and harvested a big tall 4 point on the second day of the second season because there wasn't a whole lot of deer . But it was the same way three years ago. Last year deer were every where. Don't know where all the deer went three years ago or this year. Will see next year.