Coyote bounty

[Bugler]

I am wondering of the AZ deer assoc and the Antelope foundation woudl want to pool some money into a special fund for a bounty on Coyotes. In utah where I bow hunt they have a bounty and more deer than one can stand seeing in one day.
Wahy cant this be a viable source of keeping heakthy deer and antelope herds? anyone on the board out there? I need and answer to this. The organizations spend alot of money on cleanups water catchments etc how bout some for a bounty?
Bugler

 

[HullinPhx]

Would be nice

 

[fugitive]

Doubt they would put up the money for it. But more calling competitions would thin em down quite a bit.Raffles alond with it would make them money for there cause with a chance for us to win some money and prizes.


If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?

 

[huntazido]

5-6 years back a guy tried to have a coyote shoot contest and promised big money to the winners. Seems to me it was around Globe someplace? Anyway, it was shut down by the state before it ever started. If I remember corectly it was something about profiting from a hunt. I honestly don't remember the full details and I hope someone with a better memory can explain.

I think it is Mojave rod and gun club out of Kingman that hold an "antelope eaters" coyote shoot every spring out near Seligman. I'm not sure how they get around the law. Maybe because they don't ward money, just prizes? Don probably knows the answer to this.

Now is the time to start popping coyotes, prize or no prize. The next 6-12 weeks many animal species are giving birth and a little relief would be nice.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

Huntazido,

I think you're referring to the Predator Masters contest that is held near Globe each year. It started back in 2001 or 2002, if I recall, and at the time, the AG&F considered banning contests by law. After a couple revisions, the proposal died in the AZ legislature.

I saw a blurb somewhere that this year's contest would happen this month.

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[fugitive]

I know there is a few hunts around. I just think there should be more, and if we can get a few of the bigger organizations to hold a few there would be e better turnout.


If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?

 

[spcheuvront]

I truly believe that predators cause the majority of the fawn deaths. Saying that, I don't see why we need to pay people to hunt predators. Folks who love to hunt predators will do it as long as they are able. I don't see why wildlife organizations
should pay for it. These organizations are asked to pay for all kinds of worthy causes. Where do you stop. Everyone has there own agenda. I have worked a few outings that support predator
hunters, and it went just fine. Prizes were handed out and food was provided. The one thing that I came away with, was these deticated hunters would be there prizes or not. Sure, I would like to return from a mornings hunt and have someone waiting at
my camp with a hot hamburger and beans. I'm sure I would like to have someone hand me a new skinning knife for my efforts.
It's not a game!
Controlling predators is a serious problem. We as sportsmen, have an up hill battle with the publics perception of predator
controll. Paying people to harvest wildlife is only going to hurt the already shaky situation.
Steve Cheuvront

 

[DonMartin]

Antelope Eaters XX is set for March 7-8 in Seligman.

Hunt open to all sportsmen, with either two or three person teams.

Entry fees are $50 for two, $75 for three persons.

Here is how it works. If you check in Saturday or Sunday your team gets one red ticket for a drawing. Bring us in a recently deceased coyote that has been legally taken (sorry boys, but picking up road kills doesn't count nor do frozen coyotes) and you get a another ticket for each one.

Then we do a blind drawing and if you number is picked you get a crisp $50 bill to help with your hunt related expenses.

This hunt is designed to remove coyotes at a time when they present the greatest danger to new born antelope and deer fawns in nothern Arizona.

All the info, including applications are on the Mohave Sportsman Club's website. To enter now you must pay in cash--no checks! Entries can be taken up to 10 p.m. at the Black Cat Bar in Seligman on March 6, but again you must pay in cash-- no checks. Dale Lent is in charge of the hunt for the MSC.

Last year we had I think 156 teams, we've had as many as 200.

Good chance to help out the little ones.

Don Martin

 

[quest]

We were out hunting Javelina and I happen to see one of those critter while calling for Javelina. That call brings them right in.


quest

 

[Bugler]

I understand about asking for money for something like this from the organizations, but i think the money would be better spent for a year doing this type of thing. I have a little education on the subject after being involved in some meetings with the head biologist in AZ a few years ago. And after hunting Utah for deer and seeing what the population is 50 miles north of the AZ line I wonder if it doesnt make a huge impact im actually pretty sure of it. and so is the biologist NOW. And he "wrote" the book on it, his words not mine.

 

[nvmuley]

I am interested in what you said but not quite sure of what you said

Are you saying that predator control on coyotes works according to the biologist? But it is best to do it year round?
Or that the money is better spent on other projects?

Thanks for clarifying things for me!

----------------------------------------
Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[sawtooth]

There is no question that predators have a huge impact on big game numbers. Here in Arizona the fish and game conducted a study (Four Peaks) where they fenced in an area and removed all predators. With every thing else being equal, even during drought years the deer thrived in the predator free enclosure. The deer outside the enclosure did very poorly. The primary difference was predation.

 

[Bugler]

Sawtooth exactly. I was on the board of directors for the ADA when Jim Devoss came in and gave his "stunning" discovery. He found that the only thing different in the enclosure was the absence of predators, same water feed etc.
So what I am saying here is taht the organizations could come together poool some of their money together and put a bounty on them. It works in Utah and it's legal. See where i live the High school kids are out all the time, you add a little gas money in it and they will be shooting coyotes everyday. We cant kill em off nor would I want to but to loosen their grip a bit you know.
I think if they rotated their projects around a little it could be done with little effect on wildlife.

 

[spcheuvront]

Bugler;
I also have been to many ADA board meetings. I am very familiar
with Jim DeVos. When you reduce the numbers of predators you do get an increase in the survival of fawns and calfs. There is an unlimited number of predators that can be harvested. Paying high school kids a bounty to shoot predators doesn't seem the way to get it done. I don't believe we should pay a bounty
on predators. It sends a message to the general public that we as outdoorsman are just killing for money. Does this still sound like a good idea? I believe we need to manage the predators at a level that allows the wildlife in general to reach a balance. With Mule Deer and Antelope at a fragile
low in numbers an increase in predator controll is needed.
Again, I say, if you want to open a giant can of worms with
the other side, set our cause back , keep asking for bountys on coyotes.
By the way, I sign my name, I have no Idea who you are, do we know each other?
Steve Cheuvront

 

[OutdoorWriter]

>>Again, I say, if you want to open a giant can of worms with
the other side, set our cause back , keep asking for bountys on coyotes.<<

+1


TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[nvmuley]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-09 AT 10:52AM (MST)[p]So, how is predator control effectively implemented? It seems as though all the effective tools available to do it are outlawed or demonized to the point they are socially unacceptable. What is left except private hunters and trappers. But when coyote pelts bring $15 averages, how do you make any wages and cover expenses? Calling is OK but a lot of coyotes get wised up and don't respond. Studies have shown 2/3 of the coyotes need to be removed every year to have any real impact. Except for localized control on fawning grounds, but that usually involves planes and helicopters. Expensive but a lot of bang for the buck. That gets bad media coverage also.
Again, what large powerful group has the political will to take this on topic on and fight for it? None that I know of. Everything that works to control predator numbers is politically unacceptable. So we as hunters as group just accept the deer populations that are half of what they should be. Game departments have the biologists and stature to take this on, but they don't seem to push predator control topics. They loose revenue because of the lower tags sales, but they can raise tag fees to cover salaries. They don't want to take on the big fight. No one wants to deal with the biased media making them out to look like bad guys. And the radical animal rights nuts win by default.
Here in NV we use some predator funds to hire Wildlife Services to do work on Predator Projects. Effective but limited in square miles they operate on. And now with budget cuts, 5 of 12 statewide positions are proposed to be cut.


----------------------------------------
Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[Bugler]

Yes Steve I understand what your saying, however what needs to be done is education of those that do not hunt. We are the causes of the current wildlife being seen in our outdoors, the money the management the care in stewardship. I for one an sick of defending what i choose to do in life. It is legal and I am tired of the political correctness of it all. What we do is Kill something when we hunt, bottom line it's what happens. Now there is a difference if we use what we kill etc. Why should I have to appologize and make people feel warm and fuzzy about it?
Anyways it does work period. Go to blanding Utah and look around. As far as paying for people to kill we do it all the time it just falls under the guise of a governement contract. No matter which side your looking at money is spent to kill animals, however if you tell it like it is and spend the money to enhance wildlife populations I think it sits better than just paying a shootist to get it done from a helicopter etc.
The reasons for doing something may not sit well with some but when those that pay attention and see the reason is for the good of all I think they wouldnt care much. What we do is bend to the minority over and over again. The minority of those in society that have no real education on the matter or have an agenda to further.
Bugler.
AKA J.D. Pepper

 

[spcheuvront]

Bugler;
I totally understand your feelings. I ,as you probably have also, been to at least 10-15 meetings, where the greenies, for want of a better term, have shown up in great numbers, to discuss predators. I was there with maybe a hand full of sportsman. The problem in a large measure is the lack of support by sportsman, to voice their position. If the greenies did any thing for wildlife except, bitching about the hunting community, I would probably join them too , to put in water holes and work on habitat issues. They don't do anything as far as I can see. The public is given a slanted view of hunting, and the picture of a coyote in a leg trap is a killer for us.
They, the greenies can get on the internet and raise millions of dollars to fight us. I believe the folks that contribute are good people and think they are helping animals. The only people they help are the army of lawyers the greenies hire to voice their cause.We need to try not to give the greenies anything to fight us on. I'm not saying you have to be ashamed of what you do, because you don't it's your right.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Steve Cheuvront

 

[billrquimby]

>>>Again, I say, if you want to open a giant can of worms with
>the other side, set our cause
>back , keep asking for
>bountys on coyotes.<<
>
>+1
>
>
>TONY MANDILE
>

>How To Hunt Coues Deer


Tony has it right. Be careful what you wish for. Arizona is no longer a rural state. Unlike Utah, the overwhelming majority of our voters are in just two urban counties and they have no knowledge of wildlife other than what they see on PBS or read on the PETA and HSUS sites.

Bill Quimby