Defund Obamacare.

Maybe if the insurance companies weren't such slimmy crooks. I have a friend who pays $1300 a month for health insurance for himself, he is single with no kids. Talk about an economic burden. They have raised his premiums $100 a month every year for the last 5 years straight. Yea he has some health issues (Crohns disease) but his insurance company is trying to make it so he can't afford it. My insurance sucks a$$ too. I don't use it hardly ever but when I do I have to fight them to pay.

So it's kind of hard to sign something like that when the insurance companies themselves are a bunch of DBs.


No estas en mexico ahora, entonces escoja tu basura
chancho sucio.
 
My companies provide my insurance. I don't pay a cent. But o-f-u care my company still has to have some lady come in do some speech about obummer care. If my company doesn't then they get fined $100 per worker up if they don't get it don't by a certain time.

So o-f-care is nailing us hard everyway.

MY company has to pay more to my insurance and we keep loosing benefits due to obummer care. We lost dental, Vision. Premiums sky-rocketed. The list is never ending.


So people who don't get insurance get fined from the government. So who is screwing who? Thanks for nothing ya worthless president
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-13 AT 07:31PM (MST)[p]Is there an alternative to Obamacare? Obamacare may not be perfect but it's something both Dems and Repubs can build upon and make better for all Americans.

Eldorado
 
There is only one way that we can get a decent health care package that will benefit the majority. That would be a package that not only covers us, but Congress would also would be included into the plan as their sole health care provider. Will never happen if left to Congress to vote in.

RELH
 
Defund this POS.

Americans deserve affordable QUALITY health care. No doubt.

Doesn't anyone have a darn clue how to solve a problem anymore???

In order to "Properly" solve any problem, one must first ask several questions.

What exactly is the problem?

What is the root cause of the problem?

What is the best possible permanent/long term solution?

Take a moment and ask yourself these questions and use a pen and paper.

If you think you found an answer to any of these questions, you must then question your answer in order to find the one true answer... your first answer may only be partially correct.

That said, the problem with health care is that it has become too expensive for most people to afford "quality" health care.

Root cause? this one's hard to answer, but IMO there are a few true answers... Illegal immigrants, excessive law suits, health care that has been provided and unpaid

Best possible solution? Deportation, stop providing health care to anyone who is not a US citizen for free (pay up front), implement 3 strikes your out to Dr.'s who screw up.

US health care truly is a huge mess, but so is nearly everything else related to our government.

There are TOO MANY PEOPLE in America and in the world. Don't worry however because Nature always finds a balance and I also believe that my lord and savior Jesus Christ is coming back very soon and none of this will matter.

In the mean time, I signed it.

Cheers.
 
Obamacare is designed to fail so a single payer system can be implemented for all good comrades.
 
>Obamacare is designed to fail so
>a single payer system can
>be implemented for all good
>comrades.

Ed Zachary......



When you go swimming in the ocean, it is very cold, and it makes my willy small
 
eldo, there is an alternative to Obamacare. There is no health care shortage in America. If you want some, go get it.

Eel
 
A petition is childish and useless. I think the republicans are aware Obamacare isn't overly popular.

This law is going to take effect , parts of it anyway. end of story. now what happens is we see if it's as bad as you say and what changes have to be made to live with it. there will be changes.

Comical part is most voters hate the law but like most of the provision within it. that's why the republicans have tried to leave the popular part in tact and eliminate the unpopular parts like how it gets paid for. gotta love politics.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
The only way to defund Obamacare is to win more elections. Given the stupidity of the Republican party that most likely isn't going to happen.

There is no way Harry Reid let's a bill to defund Obamacare onto the floor of the Senate.

When a party only controls 1/2 of 1/3 of the the branches of government they don't get to call the shots. Win a few elections and Obamacare would be the least of your worries.

Ted Cruz is putting on a show that required Harry Reid to agree to waste 20 plus hours on a fake filibuster that was actually a filibuster against the Republican House's bill to defund Obamacare.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Nemont
 
I really thought Cruz was smarter than he's proven to be lately, he's on his way to becoming yesterday's news. He only had the correct ethnicity and was from Texas going for him anyway, and that's a scary thought when that's all the new up and coming republican has. I'm hoping the party will come to their senses and realize what changes need to be made to become relevant again
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-25-13 AT 07:43PM (MST)[p]I wonder how the teabagger birthers will justify Cruz's birthplace when they push him for president.

I also wonder if anyone has told them he's hispanic? let's let them finish falling in love before we clue them in.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
Now you know why the American people have such a low opinion of Congress.

Thank you Sen. Cruz and all those who voted for him.

Eldorado
 
Cruz may not be the best out there, but voting for Obama and a few other Democrat members of Congress was far more foolhardy then voting for Cruz.

Cruz may be barking up the wrong tree, but at least he has a backbone and will stay the course and do what he said he would do. Can anyone say the same for Obama and his flip flops about every week.

RELH
 
>LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-13
>AT 07:31?PM (MST)
>
>Is there an alternative to Obamacare?
>Obamacare may not be perfect
>but it's something both Dems
>and Repubs can build upon
>and make better for all
>Americans.
>
>Eldorado

I prefer that the US government NOT get engaged in building a healthcare system. Government is NOT what I turn to when I want something done right and something that is sensible. Sorry -- I have precious little confidence in government doing things. The federal government was given express, delimited powers when it was founded. They should constrain their activities within those expressed limits. About the only people who think Obamacare is going to be a solution to a problem are those who think they are going to get free healthcare.

But guess what. We don't have to wait long to find out how good or bad this thing is going to be. We get to be the guinea pigs and find out in the not distant future. I just want EVERYBODY to remember who is responsible for this big program. As far as I know, out of some 526 votes (100 senators, about 426 representatives) only 3 Republicans voted for Obamacare. The Democrats OWN Obamacare. If it is a pile of stinking dung, they have no one to share the blame with. It was ALL Democrat doing.
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-13
>>AT 07:31?PM (MST)

>
>I prefer that the US government
>NOT get engaged in building
>a healthcare system. Government
>is NOT what I turn
>to when I want something
>done right and something that
>is sensible. Sorry --
>I have precious little confidence
>in government doing things.

>
>

If it were me, I would have suggested it would be smarter not to just throw 52 cards up in the air and see what happened. I would make GRADUAL change. There is a problem with the healthcare system? Let's make one modest change and see how things worked out. After evaluating that change, make another modest change. Make minor course corrections and ultimately things would get there. But Oh no! Couldn't do that!

I have observed that in different parts of the country there are different kinds of building structures and features that make sense in those different places. I have known a few people who have gone into areas they did not live in for a long time who threw up houses that didn't include customary features. Often these people discovered, to their pain and discomfort, that there was a reason for those features. It wasn't apparent from the get-go, the locals might not have been able to explain why they do things the way they do, but then some quirk of the local weather/climate turns out to be the reason for the home feature. It isn't always good to be the guinea pig. Small deviations from the status quo makes a lot of sense.

We are human beings. Our systems are complicated. There are limits to our ability to foresee and anticipate all the convolutions of large systems. Our fallibility as human beings in making such big systems from scratch has been seen over and over and over again. It is seen in large software systems. Small, gradual changes allows you to make mistakes without the sky falling. We should have changed healthcare gradually. We shall see what unintended consequences and flat out brain dead mistakes are embedded in this "change everything at once" approach.
 
I had one other thought to share about Obamacare.

I think many people look to some aspects of healthcare and/or insurance costs and they freak out. They say "costs increasing at 12% per year!!! That can't continue! The system is broken! Doctors/insurance/Bush is at fault!!!"

I would like to point something out about healthcare costs increasing at 12% per year (or whatever percentage they are increasing at). Maybe no one can do anything about that?

I suggest healthcare costs are increasing for AT LEAST 3 independent and largely uncontrollable reasons. Inflation is one of them. Suppose inflation increases costs at the rate of 3% per year. What is the magic wand to wave to avoid this cost increase?

Advancing state of the medical art is another reason. Every year we have ALL of the old procedures and drugs to pay for PLUS many new procedures and drugs. We typically think of healthcare costs -- for example health insurance costs -- on a unit of time basis. Costs per year, costs per pay check. We think of the product -- "Healthcare" -- as a stable, constant product, but it is not. How much does this advancing state of the medical art contribute to the increasing costs of health insurance and healthcare? Maybe 5% per year?

We are getting older as a population. Again, we tend to discuss and manage healthcare and health insurance as averages. I'm 57 years old. The 26 year olds in my office don't pay a lower rate of health insurance than I do. The actuaries are having those 26 year olds subsidize the likely higher healthcare costs of old fogeys like me. I take two different medications every day. I go to my cardiologist once per month to have my blood thickness tested. What healthcare does the 26 year old consume? Relative to the 26 year old, I am a net taker and he is a net giver. As our population ages, this weight of the older people increases. What is the contribution of the shifting of our population to an older demographic contribute to increasing healthcare costs/insurance costs? Maybe 5% per year?

Compound those three independent factors and tell me what rate of annual increase you can expect to see?

Tell me what politician has a plan to reduce, eliminate, control those factors? There IS not cure for them. Inflation is pretty low. Are we going to freeze the state of the medical art where it is? No new drugs? No new procedures? We could roll the state of the art back to 1960 -- that would save a lot of money! Is that a viable, smart solution? What about the aging demographic? We could just kill people when they get older, that could help. But if we don't do that, do we have a magic wand to wave that will control or remove the effect of demographic shift?

No one talks about those things. Obamacare isn't going to solve them.
 
Obamacare won't fix it, and doing nothing won't either.

We will end up with socialized medicine there is no option. that may not be a perfect solution but it's the only solution.

Our education system isn't perfect either, but with our socialized system every kid can go to school and learn to read even if their parents can't afford private schooling. I fail to see why staying alive should be viewed differently.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
>
>
>
>Obamacare won't fix it, and doing
>nothing won't either.
>
>We will end up with socialized
>medicine there is no option.
>that may not be a
>perfect solution but it's the
>only solution.
>
>Our education system isn't perfect either,
>but with our socialized system
>every kid can go to
>school and learn to read
>even if their parents can't
>afford private schooling. I fail
>to see why staying alive
>should be viewed differently.
>
I agree. But "doing nothing" doesn't cost as much as Obamacare and doesn't perturb so many things at the same time with unknown consequences.

Socialized medicine is NOT the only answer. I will make an answer that speaks to the contrary: socialized medicine is the WRONG answer and doomed to fail. I want to preface my remarks by saying this is all just discussion -- discussion is not the real world. We only know based on experiencing the real world. Thus, the truth or falseness of our arguments and statements can only be established by testing them in the real world. Onwards.

Socialized medicine cannot work in our system because our democratic leaders cannot say "NO." How is this relevant? What politician can say "Your Aunt Tillie is going to die because the state cannot afford to pay for her super, super expensive live saving medical procedure to be performed. Additionally, even if we patch up your Aunt Tillie, she is 95 years old and is going to die soon notwithstanding." What politician is going to take that position? Thus, socialized medicine will inexorably destroy our economy and our government.

Also, socialized medicine is NOT going to be better than the present system we have. Socialized medicine? How long will we wait to get treatment? Given these waits, who is going to go to the doctor to have something done unless they are in DESPERATE straits. I wouldn't. Even when in desperate straits, many people will have to wait an untenable time.

But who knows? I don't know for sure. I am prepare to get through one way or the other. An important part of my plan is to remain healthy . . . because I won't be able to count on the healthcare system to take care of me. My best advice to y'all is to do the same. You know you should get your weight down: do it. You know you shouldn't drink to excess or smoke: get it together. You know you should exercise: do it. You will not be able to expect the medical system to fix you up in the future, that is my prediction.
 
Isn't medicare and medicade socialized medicine? the payment part is so why not take the profit out of it. it's like giving everyone who can't afford one a free car, but not just any car only a Mercedes will do. this is pre-obamacare remember that.

My insurance premiums have doubled in the last 8 years and I haven't had a single claim. why is it supposed to scare the crap out of me that obamacare may raise my rates?

Doing nothing is wy my wife and I at 50 are paying $900 a month for a $5000 deductable 80/20 co-pay plan we've never met the deductable on in 20 years. forgive me if I don't think I'm getting a hell of a bargain today.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-26-13 AT 07:36PM (MST)[p]>

>
>Doing nothing is wy my wife
>and I at 50 are
>paying $900 a month for
>a $5000 deductable 80/20 co-pay
>plan we've never met the
>deductable on in 20 years.
>forgive me if I don't
>think I'm getting a hell
>of a bargain today.
>

If that is what you have been paying, you have been getting a raw deal. You could do better. That is $10,800/year insurance, for 2 adults who have no pre-existing conditions (you said you have never made a claim didn't you?) and with a $5000 deductible. I suggest you shop around.

I don't know what others think, but I think this sounds bogus. You can get a better deal than this, unless there are facts you aren't disclosing.

On the other hand . . . doubling over 8 years? I don't have access to a calculator, but doubling over 8 years isn't too far away from 12% increases year over year. An earlier post of mine proposed that as a benchmark figure and discussed how it happens. Just to make it easy: 4% inflation; 4% advancement of the state of the art; 4% aging demographic. That may well be happening . . . . but Obamacare nor anybody else is going to fix that general increase rate. Fix the state of the art; fix what a unit of health care is per year; stop the continued skew of our age demographics; stop inflation. That would solve the problem. But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for these things to happen. And if they don't happen . . . HOW can that problem go away? Let the government fix what doctors can charge? Are you serious? Do you know what the result on quality of doctors will be? I can tell you that already the best and the brightest are turning away from medicine as the preferred career path. The quality of new doctors is going down NOW.
 
I assure you she's shopped around, if you can find me a better rate I'll give you a finders fee. I've never had a health problem and hers have been too minor to meet her deductable ever. I'm not sure what you think I have to gain by lying about it on a stupid forum, $877 a month to be exact.

Like I said, it cannot go on as it has been that's gauranteed to fail. lets stop crying and see how this works because Cruz ain't gonna stop it for you anyway.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
>
>
>
>
>I assure you she's shopped around,
>if you can find me
>a better rate I'll give
>you a finders fee.
>I've never had a health
>problem and hers have been
>too minor to meet her
>deductable ever. I'm not sure
>what you think I have
>to gain by lying about
>it on a stupid forum,
>$877 a month to be
>exact.
>
>Like I said, it cannot go
>on as it has been
>that's gauranteed to fail. lets
>stop crying and see how
>this works because Cruz ain't
>gonna stop it for you
>anyway.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends
Cruz and the rest are trying to prevent a cluster f#ck,your rates will triple and you will be getting a snake oil Doctor.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-27-13 AT 06:00AM (MST)[p]>
>I assure you she's shopped around,
>if you can find me
>a better rate I'll give
>you a finders fee.
>I've never had a health
>problem and hers have been
>too minor to meet her
>deductable ever. I'm not sure
>what you think I have
>to gain by lying about
>it on a stupid forum,
>$877 a month to be
>exact.
>
>Like I said, it cannot go
>on as it has been
>that's gauranteed to fail. lets
>stop crying and see how
>this works because Cruz ain't
>gonna stop it for you
>anyway.

Well, I didn't mean to say you were lying. On second thought, maybe there are other explanations for that high rate. I know there are differences state-to-state on laws on healthcare. Maybe that explains it. Also . . . maybe my internal sense of what current rates are is mistaken.

Whether Cruz can or cannot stop this has more to do with whether he can get Republican representatives to vote with him or not . . . not with any inherent nature of the situation or with powers vested in congress.

I know some people say Republicans would be broken by defunding Obamacare. I saw an interesting article today that suggested (1) expressly defund Obamacare; (2) if the Senate refuses to vote on a bill that defunds Obamacare -- as is threatened -- and thereby leaving the US government unfunded, deliver a series of continuing resolutions to fund specific portions of the government -- military, social security -- to the senate to vote on. If Harry Reid refuses to put a first continuing resolution to temporarily fund the military, a second continuing resolution to temporarily fund social security, a third continuing resolution to fund something else that is NOT Obamacare . . . who will get credit for stopping the US government? Surely the Republicans could properly propagate that narrative?

This is somewhat in the nature of a football game. You don't always know who is going to win. Too many times it is said X necessarily will beat Y, and then it turns out the other way. It is why we play football -- to find out who wins. This is also one reason why we have votes -- to determine the will of the electorate or at least the will of the elected representatives.

Also, this is a fluid situation. Public opinion moves and is moving. Also, there is a difference between what the major news media tells us people think about things -- Obamacare and funding/defunding the government -- and what the opinion of the people really is.
 
How do you eliminate obamacare and preserve the popular parts like insurance for anyone and not being dropped because you get sick? everyone forgets those popular aspects have to be funded.


Maybe what we're hearing from the teahadists on obamacare is as accurate as what we heard from the same people on Saddam's WMD's. I don't know, you don't know. one thing you can count on is if it works you won't call it obamacare.


I'm self employed, sometimes I have a problem I don't know how to fix, but kicking the can down the road and blaming someone else won't fix it for me like it does in politics. so I take my best shot and if it doesn't work I work at it until I get the best results I can obtain. this is one of those situations, kicking the can down the road has only made it worse already and much harder to fix than if we had been forced to confront it earlier . if we can't pull together and solve this crisis that will bankrupt us as it stands today we deserve to die like the incompetent self centered losers we are.

It's time to take it on even if the first step is a face plant. I commend the libs for having the balls to do what the republicans wouldn't even if their plan is flawed.










Stay thirsty my friends
 
Why would you commend someone for doing something idiotic just to say you did it? Maybe when they controlled both houses they could have actually discussed the problems with the current system and come up with reasonable changes. But no, just had to push for single payer to be just like their idols in Western Europe. Now we are facing real tax increases and real loss of coverage and at a time when real cost curves were starting to decline over the past 3 years. I know only one thing--the train is in motion and we are soon to learn if this is the worst legislation in history or the great panacea that Obama and Pelosi claim. No hiding from the truth now.
 
>Why would you commend someone for
>doing something idiotic just to
>say you did it? Maybe
>when they controlled both houses
>they could have actually discussed
>the problems with the current
>system and come up with
>reasonable changes. But no, just
>had to push for single
>payer to be just like
>their idols in Western Europe.
>Now we are facing real
>tax increases and real loss
>of coverage and at a
>time when real cost curves
>were starting to decline over
>the past 3 years. I
>know only one thing--the train
>is in motion and we
>are soon to learn if
>this is the worst legislation
>in history or the great
>panacea that Obama and Pelosi
>claim. No hiding from the
>truth now.
+ 1
 
You don't know what the truth is, nobody is sure what it is that's why nobody can say with authority it won't work. let's see.


Why do I commend them? because it took balls and a political toll on them to pull their fingers out of their butt like nobody else would. we'd still all be living in a cave and going broke trying to see the witch doctor if we were like the republicans.can't never did anything.

If this nation can fix slavery and win two world wars I think we can fix the flaws in a health bill without falling apart. have a little fortitude.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Actually that isn't accurate at all. It was a Republican that got coverage for medicare people and their Prescriptions and Democrats wanted Part D to fail. I can pull up all the naysayers on the left from that battle. They sounded exactly like the Ted Cruz wing today.

Also McCain's idea was to get away from employer sponsored health plans and make the market place open for individual plans. So it is a false argument to say that if Republicans had their way we would be visiting witch doctors.

What got passed was a bill that was really never meant to go into law because the Senate put things in it that they knew the House would strip out in conference but because of the election of Scott Brown and the inability of Nancy Pelosi to pass a bill in the House the Senate bill became law without going to conference.

Your version isn't close to reality and it took no political balls to ignore the real problems in the economy and employment and waste a year debating health care. In the end employment isn't up, the economy is still weak and the bill is less popular today then when it was passed. Just weight for implementation.

They appeased corporate America with a delay in the employer mandate, wonder why the little guy that supposedly only the Democrats care about can't get a delay if it adversely affects him or her. I am hugely affected by it personally but I have to comply.

Nemont
 
100% NO IMMIGRATION,THAT'S THE WAY YOU CAN MAKE THIS SH#T HOLE OF AN IDEA WORK!HOW THE F#CK DO YOU MAKE THIS WORK IF NEARLY 50% OF THE PEOPLE GET SOME KIND OF GOVERMENT HELP,THEY SURE AREN'T GONNA PAY THEIR SHARE.F#CK IT WILL NEVER COMPLY!
 
Had to go check to make sure I wasn't getting feeble minded and see if McCain actually had a health care plan that wouldn't have resulted in going to witch doctors.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/10/the-mccain-health-care-plan-more-power-to-families

Turns out what McCain proposed would be considered more of step in the right direction for guys like Piper who want to uncouple employment and health insurance. McCain's plan would have gone a long way in ending one of the biggest regressive tax benefits in our country.

False choices everywhere in the health care debate. It's either Obamacare or a Witch doctor and nothing in between.

Nemont
 
"" the Senate bill became law without going to conference. ""

if that is true, that the law originated in the Senate and the Supremes ruled the law is a tax, it is once again unconstitutional. The House is the only body that can introduce bills to fund the government and raise taxes... No?
 
If the dog hadn't stopped to crap he'd have caught the rabbit. the fact is the dems did in 2 years what the republicans refused to take on in 6. that took will and balls, maybe not much, but more than the republicans had.

I have more respect for those who try and fail than those too cowardly to confront the problem. healthcare has been a wreck in action for years, and it wansn't going to fix itself no matter how hard we ignored it.


The economy sucks? how many kick azz years in a row do I need before I can argue that? if this sucks then I'm going to buy a new Leer when we recover. the only people I know without a job are those who don't want one.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-13 AT 09:12AM (MST)[p]Yeah for guys like you and me it has been great. I have to be concerned about more than just stuffing my own pockets because I have children and the future matters to me.

For those who can't leverage the tax code and write off their living expenses and depreciate their toys the economy sucks. We have the lowest labor participation rate in post WWII history. The only reason the unemployment rate is down is because so many people have given up.

Republicans passed major health care reform with the Medicare modernization act so you don't respect the ones who try you only respect those without an R after their name

If I didn't have to worry about anyone but myself and my bank account. I would be loving the position I am in, since I can't be selfish I have to deal with the reality of where the country is. The economy sucks for the average Joe

Nemont
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

That's unfortunete, my only concern is getting bigger pockets. I'll tell you what else is unfortunete, Ford just released the info on the 2015's and the only change is more Hp, not what I was looking for. I need depreciation but I don't need more equipment, if a bum who won't get of unemployment gets sympathy where is mine.


Who is the average Joe? ever average Joe who wants to work that I know is working. if average Joe is a bum who used to work but is holding out for a better job than they had in 2008 then you're right, some of them are not gaining in this economy. I can't speak for the whole nation but here there is no job shortage only a shortage of willing wokers here.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

I don't think so, I'm finding everything I need right here.

My county ( very VERY republican ) has the highest unemployment in Oregon, and I know many employers who can't find workers. why should I believe rural Oregon is the only place with deadbeats who'd rather sit on unemployment or welfare ( same thing ) ? why should a contractor have a hard time finding belly dump drivers in a timber town where logging is almost shut off?

We have a larger deficit of work ethic in this country than we have a lack of jobs. let's end lifetime unemployment and see what shakes out. Oh I forgot, the conservatives extend it everytime it runs out in exchange for things like tax cuts for Bill Gates.

Once the semi ambitious go back to work those left will be screwed you're right on that, Hopsing and Apu have their jobs we decided long ago it's better to borrow and import than make it at home. I don't know how that ends.











Stay thirsty my friends
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

So which is it? Is it lazy people just wanting to get their free cheese or is Republicans keeping poor people poor?

Have you read about the people who want to work but cannot find jobs?

Rural Oregon and Rural Montana have very few workers to start with and those that want to work are working, I agree with that. However in the rest of the country there remains people who are willing to work but have given up trying to find jobs.

If the economy is great then why does it continue to need free money from the Fed every month to prop up the stock market? We have had 5 years plus of QE from the Fed and the heroin drip continues.

Watch and see what happens if helicopter Ben or his successor tries to wean the stock market off of it's drug of choice: free money.

Nemont
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

I have no doubt there are people who would work who can't find a job, but I'd wager most aren't looking too hard or refuse to do a job beneath them. unemployment should mean you can't find a job at Burger King, not that you can't find a job that sounds fun.


The republicans are not the cause, likewise they offer zero for a solution.


I'm sure you're right about the QE but ride that horse until it drops. we have no manufacturing base left in this country and nobody wants to flip burgers , wash cars or work on a farm. we will never see low unemployment again that's a fact a smart investor must accept and account for.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-13 AT 10:41AM (MST)[p]
I thought you said the economy is good? Now it is only because of QE?

For those unable to invest or those who don't hold assets other then their hard work and toil it sucks. They are the people who are getting clobbered.

It is fairly simple:
Those with High School Diplomas have an unemployment rate of 11.1%

Those with a degree 4.5%
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

The problem is that the ones without degree far out number the ones with and when you have such a divide it is going to kill our economy.

That is why I have saved and scrounged and insisted my kids get higher educations. The people who cannot are going to be destroyed in the future and those people are the ones who used to be relied upon to build our country.

Bigger pockets are fine unless the people arrive at your doorstep with pitchforks and demand you empty them.

Nemont
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

I said the economy is good for many of us, you don't vet check a gift horse. in my case QE has nothing to do with a tight commodity supply. that like the stock market is subject to change, so you go accordingly. unlike some here I don't feel I'm entitled to high margins or a great job so I make the best of it all while it lasts .



I don't have a degree which should be obvious, but I could have a $17 an hour job before noon if I needed one. it wouldn't begin to uphold my standard of living but I could and would do it if I had to. why should I expect less from others?

The working poor are my concern, and why I support something like Obamacare. if someone is doing their best and doing the jobs many are too good for I want to help them. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, I will pay higher premiums if that's what it takes.

The bums are another matter, not worth discussion. we can't do anything about it so why bother.



















Stay thirsty my friends
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

Well the working poor are getting hammered under QE because as our dollar is debased the costs of daily living increase for the working poor.

Bums are bums but the working poor is a growing class of people even with Trillions of dollars government programs. The only real way to move up from the working poor is to get a better education and that is becoming less and less attainable for the working poor and their kids.

Just the digital divide is going to keep the have's and have not's growing apart in our new world. The working poor and not keeping up with the world and Uncle Ben's policies will make them even poorer.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/12/11/taxing_the_poor_116385.html

Your gains are coming at the expense of the people you say you want to help. Not saying you do it on purpose but you are smart enough to know that it will not end well for you or the poor, in the end.

Nemont
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

I disagree, we can't all be doctors. some don't want an office job some are not able.

Who will grow your food? change your tire? haul your frieght? flip your burger? there are millions of jobs that you don't need a degree for and will never pay big bucks.

If we were able to place eveyone in a white collar job who would do the grunt work? import mexicans? you still have the same problem .

I don't feel everyone has the right to be rich, but I do feel they have the right to food, health care and a roof over their head IF they work the best they're able to. if I need to kick in a little I'm willing.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-13 AT 11:29AM (MST)[p]Not what I said at all. I said zero about who had a right to anything. I said QE is robbing from the poor and giving to the rich and in the end it will be bad for both classes.

I don't expect everybody to be able to attend college or be doctors, that isn't even good for the country.

My point that you try to change is that QE is Robinhood in reverse and just like not everyone can be doctors, not everyone has gotten to stuff their pockets because of the Feds putting Trillions into the economy.

No judgement from me on how much you make, that is great as far as I am concerned, you just need to understand that QE is debasing our currency and increasing the costs on the working poor. It is great for you but for the working poor it is a horrible deal.

Again it is QE that is a horrible deal not you stuffing your pockets.

Nemont
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

How do you figure the poor would be better off if we were in a depression? you can't prove QE hasn't worked. for that matter what makes you think the poor won't always be poor no matter what? I don't think a lower class has much to fear from QE, in oeder for it to be on their backs you would have to assume our debt will ever be paid back, and that those folks will be paying taxes towards it. I doubt both.

I didn't say QE was all good, but to really answer that we'd have to know what our economy may look like if we'd have done nothing. one thing for sure all the bluehairs who would have been wiped out and eating dogfood today had the market not recovered like the QE. I'm not sure putting them on welfare would be any better plan than an economy boost.

You'rte smart enough to know this mess doesn't end well, admit it. the problem is systemic and the government is just the fall guy, we've become a nation of lazy debtors looking for a scape goat. make the best of it, end of story.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

Problem with printing money is that it always ends up with high inflation which does hurt the working poor the most. It is coming soon and it may make a short depression look good compared to decades of suffering.
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

Actually, proving that QE is hurting the working poor is fairly easy.

http://www.profitconfidential.com/e...-u-s-hits-one-third-of-all-employed-families/

That is even without the coming inflation.

Since I have kids and need to be concerned for them and my grandchildren I feel free to blame the government. The stimulus and the QE was necessary in 2008 and 2009, I opposed them at the time and still oppose that level of government interference but 5 years beyond the melt down if the economy can't recover with zero interest rates and continued money printing then the future is bleak.

I don't have the luxury of not caring about the future of the country like you do.

Nemont
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

Again you assume all the unemployed are looking for a job. I don't buy it.

Who elected or government? I don't think the voters can get off the hook that easy.

I care about this country as much as any american, but I've been watching it decline and overpopulate since I was in high school. the fact my wife and I don't have kids is not by chance, we didn't feel the future for them would be half the quality we enjoy and chose not to deal with it. plus the fact kids annoy me.

I don't feel my ability not to care as you say is so much luxury but rather a good decision. I have to say it's sweet ,you make your luck for the most part in life.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

My kids will be just fine. They have been a true joy to raise and pass on to our values and ethics. Doesn't stop me from wanting what is best for their future.

Without kids there is not future for anybody so we chose to have kids. Don't think for single minute I regret having any of my three. My wife and I chose to have them and we have raised them to be responsible citizen and producers.

I have made my own luck up to this point so I don't see that changing.

Who do you propose will buy your assets in the future if there are no kids? They have been saying we are over populated since the 1850's .

Nemont
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

Who will buy my assets? the californians have done pretty well so far, down the road I expect it will be chinamen.

I have little fear of an underpopulation crisis, there is no advantage to more population.

Having kids is natural I'm not knocking it I just wasn't interested in the time or effort it required. I'll leave the overpopulating to the welfare cases they have nothing else going on.

I want to see a bright future for kids of all nations, but I'd have to lie to say I do. too many people fighting over the same resources. it ain't pretty and your grandkids will have it worse. reality sucks sometimes.









Stay thirsty my friends
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

Kids annoy you dude. Guess you don't have mirrors in your house!
 
RE: Defund Obamacare

And you're not too tweaked on meth to recognize it this time.

Good for you.















Stay thirsty my friends
 

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