Did everyone kill 250”+ deer in the good ole days?

C

Cam@strawberry

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Saw another mega giant float across the instagram this morning, got me thinking, how many of these bucks got killed in the old days? I mean it was so so so much better back then, it must have just been a given for ma to walk out with the ol 30-30 and dump a 220” for camp meat.

Just from what I’ve seen.

Utah is on the board with 2 over 250”, I think that Hogan buck might’ve been on the cusp too, but can’t remember so that would be 3

Arizona has 2 I think

New Mexico kicked out the Esperanza kids buck this week, which BTW is the coolest story I’ve ever seen hands down.

Colorado has 3

Nevada got 1 over if I remember right

I’m sure there’s a couple that I didn’t see, so that’s like 10 bucks in 1 year that would win the Zinik’s big buck contest.

Must have been just jaw droppingly good in the 70’s and 80’s
 
I think all hunting stories are like a fine wine. They definitely get better and better with time but I do remember my family killing a few 24-28” four points consistently every year in the 70’s and early 80’s before I was old enough to hunt.
Notice I said 24-28” instead of 170-180” bucks?
My how times have changed…
 
I was born in 1943 and went hunting with my dad when I was 8. He hunted in the Book Cliffs from Utah to DeBeque, CO. He use to sort em until he got a really big one that would be around 28" to 36" outside spread. When I got my first buck at 12 I wasn't as picky but I did kill several over the years that were over 30". The canyon on th Colorado river from Fruita to Utah would hold some really nice bucks in November. These came from Glade Park I think. I have never had any animal scored.
 
Yes there was alot more big bucks killed back in the day but there were thousands and thousands more deer I don't even know how to explain the difference in the deer population between then and now..there was also tens of thousands more hunters back then too so the deer got moved around alot more so naturally there were more big deer spotted and killed mostly by chance by being in the right place at the right time..Many of the bucks you see in Utah biggest bucks were harvested this way..I've been hunting big mule deer bucks since 1969 and the only way I can explain it is that there's no comparison between then and now and I don't honestly believe we'll ever see anything like those days ever again
 
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I think you've got the 70's and 80's mixed up with the 50's and 60's.
Around 1946 Utah's deer population was becoming out of balance with what the winter range could support.

Around 1970 the decline in deer numbers became visibly apparent.
 
No limited entry tags, hunting season through the rut every year, fraction of the people and you could just drive the Jeep all over the winter range and pop a giant after thanksgiving dinner.

There’s a reason you see full bodied giant deer in the back of trucks or down in town with the guys in blue jeans and a flannel for the old timey pics. It was waaasy easier. Also why a giant buck wasn’t a huge deal with a bunch of crocodile tears and 900 photos with 30 guys in it.

It was just deer season. No big deal
 
Right On middlefork!

You Gotta Realize BEAVIS Is Still a PUNK Kid!

1972 Is When It All Came To An End As We Once Knew It!

Yes!

80's & 90's Were Better Than What We Have Now!

But Now Will Be Better Than The Future If Something Isn't Fixed Soon!

They Have Become Better At Locating & Killing The Few Big Bucks Of Today With All The BS TECHNOLOGY Of Today!





middlefork said:
I think you've got the 70's and 80's mixed up with the 50's and 60's.
Around 1946 Utah's deer population was becoming out of balance with what the winter range could support.

Around 1970 the decline in deer numbers became visibly apparent.
Click to expand...
 
berrysblaster said:
Saw another mega giant float across the instagram this morning, got me thinking, how many of these bucks got killed in the old days? I mean it was so so so much better back then, it must have just been a given for ma to walk out with the ol 30-30 and dump a 220” for camp meat.

Just from what I’ve seen.

Utah is on the board with 2 over 250”, I think that Hogan buck might’ve been on the cusp too, but can’t remember so that would be 3

Arizona has 2 I think

New Mexico kicked out the Esperanza kids buck this week, which BTW is the coolest story I’ve ever seen hands down.

Colorado has 3

Nevada got 1 over if I remember right

I’m sure there’s a couple that I didn’t see, so that’s like 10 bucks in 1 year that would win the Zinik’s big buck contest.

Must have been just jaw droppingly good in the 70’s and 80’s
Click to expand...
For those of us not in the know, what is the Esperanza story?
 
berrysblaster said:
Saw another mega giant float across the instagram this morning, got me thinking, how many of these bucks got killed in the old days? I mean it was so so so much better back then, it must have just been a given for ma to walk out with the ol 30-30 and dump a 220” for camp meat.

Just from what I’ve seen.

Utah is on the board with 2 over 250”, I think that Hogan buck might’ve been on the cusp too, but can’t remember so that would be 3

Arizona has 2 I think

New Mexico kicked out the Esperanza kids buck this week, which BTW is the coolest story I’ve ever seen hands down.

Colorado has 3

Nevada got 1 over if I remember right

I’m sure there’s a couple that I didn’t see, so that’s like 10 bucks in 1 year that would win the Zinik’s big buck contest.

Must have been just jaw droppingly good in the 70’s and 80’s
Click to expand...
I can only speak for myself…….. I never killed any 250 or even 180 inch deer in the good old days, or any day for that matter. I lost one I wounded and flat out missed at least 2 others, that I can remember.

Crawled in on buck I would estimate was 205-210 (straight 4 X 4 with 4 or 5 eye guards) in the early 1980. It was the first Saturday in November, it had snowed 7-8 inches on the mountain and the rut was just getting started, the deer were moving lower. This buck was checking a herd of 40 to 50 does next to a thick mahogany ridge. There was 5 to inches of snow stacked on top of the trees.

I saw him about 400 yards ahead of me, he saw me and could have cared less. I was hunting with my Kentucky long rifle flintlock.

I slipped into the mahogany patch and started mostly crawling toward the herd of does. As I slowly moved closer, the sun came out and sure as heck, it started dripping water under the canopy of trees. By the time I was 50 yards from the does with the buck, I was soaked to the bone. I knew the rifle was soaked too but I had tried my best to wrap whatever I had available around the frizzen pan, to keep it dry. It wasn’t dry. I wiped it as dry as I could but everything on me was soaked too. The whole time, the monster, Forest black antlered buck was walking back and forth 50 yds or closer. Finally, out of pure exasperation, I loaded the pan with 3fff power, pulled down, set the trigger and touched it off……… SPLAT. The frizzen pan on my Kentucky is perfectly lined up with the where top of the stock serves as a funnel, from the full length of the octagon barrel flats to the pan. When I raised the barrel up to aim, it funneled water straight into the 3fff powder in the pan. It was mud!



On that one, I didn’t kill, I just crawled out in front of and sloshed my way back to my pickup.

I can figure out a way to screw things up every time.

So, my lack of killing big bucks, in the old days, has not been the deers fault.
73ED3501-3DE9-47B3-8C85-56BB26E5E655.jpeg
 
This is my friend Erica's grandfather in approximately 1953. He was one of the two principals in Eddie Bauer company (along with Eddie Bauer). She said that her Grandfather would drive up to British Columbia with friends and sometimes his wife, and fill up the truck with bucks. This picture was taken outside a brewery in Seattle. I'd say those were the "good ole days". This caliber of deer were fairly common back then.
2683.jpeg
I'd also say that anyone that thinks times today are anywhere close to this needs to stop drinking...
 
hunt30 said:
The vast majority of big bucks killed today never make it to social media either.
Click to expand...
IMG_2836.jpeg

In my opinion, the average Joe had a better chance (statistically) of knocking over a big one in the old days.

Today most of us can’t even pay the ante to get in the big buck game. Or your body can’t after the 35 years of points.
 
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Shadow said:
I think all hunting stories are like a fine wine. They definitely get better and better with time but I do remember my family killing a few 24-28” four points consistently every year in the 70’s and early 80’s before I was old enough to hunt.
Notice I said 24-28” instead of 170-180” bucks?
My how times have changed…
Click to expand...
Yep, back then nobody cared, or even knew about, B&C scoring. It was all about width.

Berry, just looking through my 2004 edition B&C record book, down at the low end of the Non-typical Mule Deer, you know the measley 230" bucks, I'm surprised that the most common decade I'm seeing is the 1990's. Up at the top of the entries, where the "first day shooters" are, most were killed 1960s and prior. Lots of 20's, 30s, and 40s.
 
The first deer hunt I accompanied my Dad on was in 1957 when I was 8 years old. The first two hours of daylight on opening day sounded like a war broke out with shots ringing out from every ridge. Most rifles were open sighted 30-30s, or war vintage 30-40 Krag, or 30-06s. Few hunters owned binoculars and anything with visible antlers was usually shot at, but most volleys were flat out misses.
That day my Dad's friend (with the only scoped rifle in camp) killed a 200+ inch non-typical that my father missed 4 times at 200 yds with his 30-30.
Deer hunting had become wildly popular after WW II when soldiers came home with shooting skills and a desire to use them on something other than the enemy. Deer had not been seriously hunted for 5-6 years so deer populations had exploded to record highs.
In 1963 at age 14 (back then you had to be 16 to carry a gun) I helped pack out the hind quarters of a giant buck shot in a hell hole by a neighbor. It was a 31" 6X7 pt buck but my neighbor left the head because it was too heavy to carry out with the meat.
That was a pretty common practice in those days when few ever thought of mounting a deer. Mostly kept horns were tacked to a barn or admired for a few days and then thrown in the trash. 95% of hunters never even knew there was a record book, much less pay money to enter such nonsense.
Given that history, it's my opinion that there were "Good ole days" of deer hunting that were a perfect storm for incredible mule deer hunting circumstances that will never be repeated.
No question in my mind that there were more giant bucks in those days than there ever will be again, but most were either never killed or never documented because nobody cared.
 
littlebighorn said:
The first deer hunt I accompanied my Dad on was in 1957 when I was 8 years old. The first two hours of daylight on opening day sounded like a war broke out with shots ringing out from every ridge. Most rifles were open sighted 30-30s, or war vintage 30-40 Krag, or 30-06s. Few hunters owned binoculars and anything with visible antlers was usually shot at, but most volleys were flat out misses.
That day my Dad's friend (with the only scoped rifle in camp) killed a 200+ inch non-typical that my father missed 4 times at 200 yds with his 30-30.
Deer hunting had become wildly popular after WW II when soldiers came home with shooting skills and a desire to use them on something other than the enemy. Deer had not been seriously hunted for 5-6 years so deer populations had exploded to record highs.
In 1963 at age 14 (back then you had to be 16 to carry a gun) I helped pack out the hind quarters of a giant buck shot in a hell hole by a neighbor. It was a 31" 6X7 pt buck but my neighbor left the head because it was too heavy to carry out with the meat.
That was a pretty common practice in those days when few ever thought of mounting a deer. Mostly kept horns were tacked to a barn or admired for a few days and then thrown in the trash. 95% of hunters never even knew there was a record book, much less pay money to enter such nonsense.
Given that history, it's my opinion that there were "Good ole days" of deer hunting that were a perfect storm for incredible mule deer hunting circumstances that will never be repeated.
No question in my mind that there were more giant bucks in those days than there ever will be again, but most were either never killed or never documented because nobody cared.
Click to expand...
I love hearing stories about the old days..,
Thanks LBH
 
I don’t know much about 250’s but I do remember cleaning a pile of huge racks out of my grandfathers Idaho cabin in the late 80’s. And I do mean a PILE !!! Him and his four brothers spent decades hunting out that hand built shack. Nearly all of those deer and elk were killed with open sights, nothing fancy…….. In 1967 he had his first scoped rifle built. A custom 270/338 built on a Mauser action, that rifle added a few to the collection also. They are all long gone now but the stories, I’ll never forget ! Boy I wish I coulda hunted in those days !!!
 
Stillwater165 said:
I don’t know much about 250’s but I do remember cleaning a pile of huge racks out of my grandfathers Idaho cabin in the late 80’s. And I do mean a PILE !!! Him and his four brothers spent decades hunting out that hand built shack. Nearly all of those deer and elk were killed with open sights, nothing fancy…….. In 1967 he had his first scoped rifle built. A custom 270/338 built on a Mauser action, that rifle added a few to the collection also. They are all long gone now but the stories, I’ll never forget ! Boy I wish I coulda hunted in those days !!!
Click to expand...
I hope you have that pile of racks to remember them by also…
 
I shot my first buck in 1961' I remember most of my friends at that time were not trophy hunters, but they were excited if they took a nice buck., I am sure there were some that spent time and money for trophy book animals but don't believe it was as prevalent as today.
 
middlefork said:
I think you've got the 70's and 80's mixed up with the 50's and 60's.
Around 1946 Utah's deer population was becoming out of balance with what the winter range could support.

Around 1970 the decline in deer numbers became visibly apparent.
Click to expand...
I can say unequivocally that Idaho Deer dropped 1970s early on. The 60s were great but I was 12 in1970. Californians showed up by droves as Idaho was pimping no res tags.
 
This was mostly satire and sarcasm at the outset, but specifically I’m referring to truly giant 250+ type deer. The books are pretty clear that the 50s-80’s kicked out a bunch of 200”+ type deer, but having 12+ 250-300”ers hit the ground in one year in 2023 feels significant.

That Seattle pic with BC bucks is so cool.
 
No doubt 12+ in one year is a bunch berry, but in my mind that speaks more to our skill/technology and ego to boast of killing big bucks than it does about the number that exist now or existed in the past.
Social media gets credit for us knowing about pretty much every one of them. For sure in my era lots more existed then than now.

The Seattle pic is cool and documents my point. I'd wager none of those bucks were ever scored and few people even knew about them.
 
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Outdoordan said:
This is my friend Erica's grandfather in approximately 1953. He was one of the two principals in Eddie Bauer company (along with Eddie Bauer). She said that her Grandfather would drive up to British Columbia with friends and sometimes his wife, and fill up the truck with bucks. This picture was taken outside a brewery in Seattle. I'd say those were the "good ole days". This caliber of deer were fairly common back then.View attachment 127246 I'd also say that anyone that thinks times today are anywhere close to this needs to stop drinking...
Click to expand...
Must be the guy in the background that killed that buck to the right of the lady:

"Alfred, you get behind the truck for this picture. What a DINK!"
 
Not hard to find some ones answer to that question.

"The numbers of mule deer significantly and drastically declined in the early 1970s (Workman and Low 1976). After a decade of generally average climatic conditions with high reproductive and recruitment rates, which had led to very successful hunting during the 1960s, the early1970s marked the beginning of a long decline in mule deer numbers. Several factors contributed to this decline of mule deer (Utah DWR1951-2008, Hancock 1981, Utah DWR 2003). The harsh winter of1972–73 showed a significant loss of deer due to starvation, and as a consequence, most of the 1972 fawn crop was lost. Antlerless harvest had remained high during the first four years of the new decade: 1970,1971, 1972, and 1973. Poor fawn crops were produced during those same years. Cold and delayed spring seasons continued into May and weakened does in the later stages of gestation. Summer drought in several parts of the state dried up many traditional watering places. The effects of predators increased with declining deer populations. Finally, a statewide jump in hunter license sales from about 180,000 in 1969 to 200,000 in 1970 caused a noticeable increase in hunter pressure, particularly on does, and an observed decline in deer numbers."
 
good ole days are now. I can hunt. I"ll bet 50% of these 250 plus deer from this year came from a unit one could draw with 10 points or less. I just need to 1. improve my skills, 2. spend more time, 3. get lucky!
 
But then there is this. From the same source.
"The solution to the decline in deer numbers adopted by the Division of Wildlife Resources was to revert back to buck-only hunts with antlerless-control permits. Under conservative doe harvest regulations, deer populations increased quickly. In many areas deer numbers again soon exceeded range carrying capacity. In just two years, by1977, statewide buck harvest had recovered to harvest levels achieved before 1973. However, the hunters’ and general public’s desire to maintain high deer numbers on public lands often resulted in harvest considerably below the biological goals of maintaining populations within carrying capacity. The difficulties of harvesting adequate numbers of antlerless deer on privately owned ranges, where landowners controlled hunter access and the effectiveness of antlerless control permits, also contributed to harvests considerably below biological goals. The extremely harsh winter of 1983–1984 was a grim reminder of the consequences of excessive populations. For most of Utah’s deer units, the severe winter weather caused total herd losses usually in the range of 50% mortality, and on some units as high as 70%"
 
middlefork said:
But then there is this. From the same source.
"The solution to the decline in deer numbers adopted by the Division of Wildlife Resources was to revert back to buck-only hunts with antlerless-control permits. Under conservative doe harvest regulations, deer populations increased quickly. In many areas deer numbers again soon exceeded range carrying capacity. In just two years, by1977, statewide buck harvest had recovered to harvest levels achieved before 1973. However, the hunters’ and general public’s desire to maintain high deer numbers on public lands often resulted in harvest considerably below the biological goals of maintaining populations within carrying capacity. The difficulties of harvesting adequate numbers of antlerless deer on privately owned ranges, where landowners controlled hunter access and the effectiveness of antlerless control permits, also contributed to harvests considerably below biological goals. The extremely harsh winter of 1983–1984 was a grim reminder of the consequences of excessive populations. For most of Utah’s deer units, the severe winter weather caused total herd losses usually in the range of 50% mortality, and on some units as high as 70%"
Click to expand...
Ya, and we told them. Did they listen, nope, totally refused to listen to our empirical boots on the ground observations. They blamed everything and more on the northern winter loss during winter of 1992/93, that’s when Leavitt forced the 97,000 tag ceiling. Denial, denial, denial…… I could care less what Norm Hancock wrote, he didn’t believe us at the time and the rest of his offspring denied it for another 30 years. Hancock supported the killing of tens of thousand of antlerless mule deer between 1984 and 1993. He was the head biologist and he screwed mule deer population up more than any single individual I ever fought against. Hancock’s legacy is still so embedded in the Utah State agency, it would take an entirely new staff of employees, from top to bottom to ever flush his lingering BS from the system.
 
I'll not argue with you Lumpy.
But didn't the 2022/2023 winter show there was not sufficient winter range to support the current animals on many units? Along with major die offs during harsh winters in the past?
That alone take years to recover from. Much less the other factors going on.
 
middlefork said:
I'll not argue with you Lumpy.
But didn't the 2022/2023 winter show there was not sufficient winter range to support the current animals on many units? Along with major die offs during harsh winters in the past?
That alone take years to recover from. Much less the other factors going on.
Click to expand...
Good.

Yes, but was it the lack of habitat or lack of access to the habitat that was covered in 4 feet of dense snow, rather than insufficient habitat. Insufficient and inaccessible have entirely different cause and effect. And the way you mitigate for that is stock pile adequate mule deer feed, like we do with livestock. And deliver it as needed. Never ever, not plan on bad winter, two or three in a grow. Expensive yes, but do you want mule deer to hunt or don’t you. Have as many contingencies as you have possible disasters.

DON’T SURPLUS SELL YOUR VENTILATORS!!!!

How come they claim the hayday of mule deer hunting was in the 1940s and 1950s. Mule deer populations were so prolific Utah feared another North Rim of the Grand Canyon mule deer crash/die off was imminent. Utah hired a well know news film personality to come to Utah and produce a mule deer hunting documentary to show in movie theaters throughout California. It focused on the thousands upon thousands of mule deer that were so over populated they were all endanger of dying from starvation, if more hunters didn’t come to Utah and harvest them. It was titled Bucks, Bucks, Bucks. At one place in the documentary it shows over 400 buck deer in Big John Flat on the Beaver Unit………… yet, the following is not my from my memory or imagination.

Winter of 1948-49​

“Utah's most severe winter since 1899 occurred during the winter of 1948-49. It was the coldest winter on record ... with record amounts of seasonal snowfall reported along the Wasatch Front and other portions of Utah. nearly a 25% loss in some livestock herds was reported ... many fruit trees were killed ... wildlife struggled for existence ... tourist trade reached an all-time low ... and 10 people died from exposure.”

Western Regional Climate Center

Western Regional Climate Center, providing climate services, data, and research for 13 western states
wrcc.dri.edu wrcc.dri.edu

So the question is:
How is possible to have the worst winter in 50 years in 1949 and still by the very early 1950’s being over run with mule deer.

So…… give us your opinion and I’ll give you mine……. Hint…. it’s not because they stock piled feed in 1949.

You’re up. 😁
 
2lumpy said:
Good.

Yes, but was it the lack of habitat or lack of access to the habitat that was covered in 4 feet of dense snow, rather than insufficient habitat. Insufficient and inaccessible have entirely different cause and effect. And the way you mitigate for that is stock pile adequate mule deer feed, like we do with livestock. And deliver it as needed. Never ever, not plan on bad winter, two or three in a grow. Expensive yes, but do you want mule deer to hunt or don’t you. Have as many contingencies as you have possible disasters.

DON’T SURPLUS SELL YOUR VENTILATORS!!!!

How come they claim the hayday of mule deer hunting was in the 1940s and 1950s. Mule deer populations were so prolific Utah feared another North Rim of the Grand Canyon mule deer crash/die off was imminent. Utah hired a well know news film personality to come to Utah and produce a mule deer hunting documentary to show in movie theaters throughout California. It focused on the thousands upon thousands of mule deer that were so over populated they were all endanger of dying from starvation, if more hunters didn’t come to Utah and harvest them. It was titled Bucks, Bucks, Bucks. At one place in the documentary it shows over 400 buck deer in Big John Flat on the Beaver Unit………… yet, the following is not my from my memory or imagination.

Winter of 1948-49​

“Utah's most severe winter since 1899 occurred during the winter of 1948-49. It was the coldest winter on record ... with record amounts of seasonal snowfall reported along the Wasatch Front and other portions of Utah. nearly a 25% loss in some livestock herds was reported ... many fruit trees were killed ... wildlife struggled for existence ... tourist trade reached an all-time low ... and 10 people died from exposure.”

Western Regional Climate Center

Western Regional Climate Center, providing climate services, data, and research for 13 western states
wrcc.dri.edu wrcc.dri.edu

So the question is:
How is possible to have the worst winter in 50 years in 1949 and still by the very early 1950’s being over run with mule deer.

So…… give us your opinion and I’ll give you mine……. Hint…. it’s not because they stock piled feed in 1949.

You’re up. 😁
Click to expand...


I'm going with no major freeways, 3 million less people, the livestock industry eradicating anything with teeth, and no beetle kill for $200 alex
 
No problem . Again from my source of information. Bold is my emphases. It appears that habitat is the emphasis. And I tend to agree.
And I fail to see much difference between lack of habitat and access to habitat. But I'm sure you will be happy to educate me.

"By the late 1940s, deer numbers had expanded to extremely dense populations throughout Utah. Deer populations had gradually increased in response to increased browse availability on winter ranges, increased predator control, and buck-only hunting in most areas. The limited number of antlerless-control permits issued before 1950 accomplished little in curbing the growth of most mule deer populations. At this time the high deer density was observed to be out-of-balance with the forage available on the winter range. On most ranges it is estimated the appropriate balance between deer numbers and available forage on winter ranges occurred between 1940 and 1945. By 1946, the number of deer on winter ranges greatly exceeded the carrying capacity of most ranges. Consequently, because of the extreme overwinter utilization of shrubs, winter range conditions rapidly deteriorated and grasses replaced winter browse forage. Even more importantly, overutilization of the browse resource was leading to shrub decadence and mortality, reduced browse productivity, and decreased future carrying capacity. Annually during the late 1940s, overwinter mortality losses caused by starvation and harsh winters were staggering, particularly during the especially severe winter of 1948–1949.Finally in 1951, after at least five years of significantly overpopulated herds of mule deer throughout most of Utah, the Utah legislature repealed the1914 ‘buck only’ law and hunters were allowed to harvest ‘either-sex’ on their deer hunting permit. Tangential to the initiation of either-sex or hunter choice hunting, the Department of Fish and Game began an aggressive harvest program designed specifically to decrease herd sizes, including the establishment of two deer permits, pre-season hunts, postseason hunts, extended hunts, conditional hunts, and others. Deer were plentiful everywhere, so to attract hunters, areas distant from human population centers had fewer restrictions and more opportunities than areas along the Wasatch Front where hunter pressure was higher. For a few years around 1960, a hunter could have legally harvested up to 11deer during a single season in Utah. Either-sex hunting opportunity continued on most units through 1972. "

:unsure:
 
So the browse was depleted by 1946. Yes/No?

Harsh winters and starvation between 1946 and 1950.
Yes/No?

So the feed is gone, starvation. the winters killed and more starvation. And yet……still too many deer. Some many in fact, what did they do? Went to either sex, increased the number tags per hunter. Added pre-season hunts, post season hunts, extended hunts, conditional hunts, and others. Did I miss any?

How is this possible, no winter feed, no browse left, starvation, not fat, no resistance to the cold………… yet still issuing a rifle tag and an archer tag clear into the 1980’s. 240,000 deer hunters. 1982, 82,000 buck only were killed. Highest ever. Valid data? You tell me?

State wide…. heaviest snow on record, winter of 1982 and it didn’t melt off the winter range until the middle of June,………. When it flood State Street in Salt Lake City with a sand bagged river that filled 6 lanes 3 feet deep. Yet in the fall of 1983, over 200,000 hunters still killed 59,000 and then 63,000 the following year.

Again, with no winter feed, bad, bad, bad in the winter and spring of 83, what feed there was, wasn’t accessible.
Yes/No?

So I’ll ask again, respectfully, how is that possible, with no winter habitat? How would be possible even if there was surplus habitat but it was under 4 feet of snow?

I’d still like you to take a guess…… I’m willing to. 😁
 
2lumpy said:
So the browse was depleted by 1946. Yes/No?

Harsh winters and starvation between 1946 and 1950.
Yes/No?

So the feed is gone, starvation. the winters killed and more starvation. And yet……still too many deer. Some many in fact, what did they do? Went to either sex, increased the number tags per hunter. Added pre-season hunts, post season hunts, extended hunts, conditional hunts, and others. Did I miss any?

How is this possible, no winter feed, no browse left, starvation, not fat, no resistance to the cold………… yet still issuing a rifle tag and an archer tag clear into the 1980’s. 240,000 deer hunters. 1982, 82,000 buck only were killed. Highest ever. Valid data? You tell me?

State wide…. heaviest snow on record, winter of 1982 and it didn’t melt off the winter range until the middle of June,………. When it flood State Street in Salt Lake City with a sand bagged river that filled 6 lanes 3 feet deep. Yet in the fall of 1983, over 200,000 hunters still killed 59,000 and then 63,000 the following year.

Again, with no winter feed, bad, bad, bad in the winter and spring of 83, what feed there was, wasn’t accessible.
Yes/No?

So I’ll ask again, respectfully, how is that possible, with no winter habitat? How would be possible even if there was surplus habitat but it was under 4 feet of snow?

I’d still like you to take a guess…… I’m willing to. 😁
Click to expand...


I'll take 2 million less people, only 1 freeway, still killing massive amounts of predators for $400 Alex.
 
middlefork said:
Obviously you are the smartest man in the room . Pray tell let us know.
Click to expand...
I don’t know, I asked for your opinion and said if you would……. I’ll tell you mine. That means mine is only an “opinion”, and if I was smart……. would we be wasting each others time pointlessly?

So, your opinion…… then mine, for what it’s worth.
 
2lumpy said:
I don’t know, I asked for your opinion and said if you would……. I’ll tell you mine. That means mine is only an “opinion”, and if I was smart……. would we be wasting each others time pointlessly?

So, your opinion…… then mine, for what it’s worth.
Click to expand...
I have no idea. Cooked books? People lying? Make believe? Killed every last deer? That never happened?

Again let's hear your theory's.
 

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