DID IT FAIL ALREADY???

elkassassin · Nov 22, 2019

JUDAS!

Does anybody Remember just a few short years ago?

When They/We/DWR Went to Numerous Smaller Units So We Could Manage the Deer better than the 5 Regions prior to that?

Looks Like Most TARDS were SUCKED in to that BS!

How Bout it EFA?

Let's Hear it?

We Were gonna be like Colorado!

We were gonna see Miracles!

Ya!

We're seeing them alright!

I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

hossblur · Nov 22, 2019

> JUDAS!
>
>Does anybody Remember just a few
>short years ago?
>
>When They/We/DWR Went to Numerous Smaller
>Units So We Could Manage
>the Deer better than the
>5 Regions prior to that?
>
>
>Looks Like Most TARDS were SUCKED
>in to that BS!
>
>How Bout it EFA?
>
>Let's Hear it?
>
>We Were gonna be like Colorado!
>
>
>We were gonna see Miracles!
>
>Ya!
>
>We're seeing them alright!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!

What the he'll are you talking about.

$fw saved the mule deer decades ago!!

Better get your expo tickets now!

You know I love you, it's the knob creek talking?

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

elkfromabove · Nov 22, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-19 AT 10:10PM (MST)[p]> JUDAS!
>
>Does anybody Remember just a few
>short years ago?
>
>When They/We/DWR Went to Numerous Smaller
>Units So We Could Manage
>the Deer better than the
>5 Regions prior to that?
>
>
>Looks Like Most TARDS were SUCKED
>in to that BS!
>
>How Bout it EFA?
>
>Let's Hear it?
>
>We Were gonna be like Colorado!
>
>
>We were gonna see Miracles!
>
>Ya!
>
>We're seeing them alright!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!

As far as I'm concerned, it failed the year it was implemented! I don't know how many hunters "dropped out on their own" as Muley 73 put it on another thread, but 3 of my neighbors did! And some who stayed sometimes can't even get a tag to hunt their own land! Before Option #2, we were able to hunt on either side of I-15 and on either side of SR-14 and on either side of SR-56, but now we have to choose from 5 different units that are within 15 minutes of home. And, of course, I had to give up statewide archery (By one vote from the Wildlife Board.) And we certainly haven't seen the increase in population nor quality promised! Does that answer your question?

elkassassin · Nov 22, 2019

Well EFA!

Just Checkin to see if anybody-else has been Payin Attention!

Remember: We're gonna 'Micro-Manage the Deer Herd'!

Yup!

Let's Micro Manage them to Death!

It'll Never Change!

Oh,Wait a minute!

Yes it Will!

It'll Get Worse just stick around & see!

I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

hornkiller · Nov 22, 2019

Ut has failed for years on deer and elk bess it's no secret!

Cass · Nov 23, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-19 AT 09:31AM (MST)[p]I remember when they switched from the regions to units. Was it 11,12, or 13 i cant remember exactly. All i know is it was the last year i put in / hunted Utah. Opening day of the archery hunt looked like ole opening day of the rifle hunt. Never seen sooo many bowhunters in my life. Rollin around in the backs of trucks road huntin and flingin arrows. It's so sad because Utah has the potential of colorado but the thought process of California

-Cass

grizzly · Nov 23, 2019

I would argue it was never managed by unit. They have issued tags by unit, but they didn't manage herds by unit. There's a difference.

The experiment hasn't even been tried in Utah, Colorado is the only state that truly manages herds and adjusts tags as needed by unit. And it seems to work well for them.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

Bocephus · Nov 23, 2019

CO isn't any better, in fact heading in a worse direction than UT.

elkfromabove · Nov 23, 2019

>I would argue it was never
>managed by unit. They have
>issued tags by unit, but
>they didn't manage herds by
>unit. There's a difference.
>
>The experiment hasn't even been tried
>in Utah, Colorado is the
>only state that truly manages
>herds and adjusts tags as
>needed by unit. And it
>seems to work well for
>them.
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------

And you would be wrong in your argument!

Utah has biologically managed/monitored deer by unit since 1930 when they broke up the state into 4 deer herd units and they have issued tags (both buck and doe) per population estimates accordingly.

Per the 1996 Annual Deer Report:

"HISTORY OF DEER MANAGEMENT IN UTAH"

"It was recognized in the early 30's that there was a need for small, individual units throughout the state to provide better and more intensive studies in deer management. Each deer herd provided unique problems, thus, management units were set up on a deer herd basis where possible.

From four deer herd management units in 1930, the number has increased continually through the years until we now have a statewide breakdown of 81 herd units. The harvest proposals for each individual unit are annually recommended to the Board of Big Game Control. The Board consists of five persons representing the Utah Cattlemen's Association, Utah Woolgrower's Association, Utah Wildlife Federation and a public lands representative from the Region 4 U.S. Forest Service office. The Wildlife Resources director serves as chairman. The Board sets season dates and number and sex of big game animals to be harvested from the management units."

And how do/did they manage those units?

An example:
https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/range-trends/archive/2016_Northern_Region_Unit_Summary_Report.pdf

You may not like the WAY the units are currently being managed, but you can't claim they aren't being or haven't been managed biologically (and socially).

Muley_73 · Nov 23, 2019

Bess,
You can have lots of good tools in the garage. The very best. But if you don't use them they ain?t gonna built Shiit!!!

There are plenty of tools being used they just aren't smart enough to realize it.

BIGJOHNT · Nov 23, 2019

Yes but they never give anything back once they take it away. I sure enjoyed the way it was. I could hunt at our cabin and in Saint George all in the same unit. Not that I killed more deer. Just enjoy more time hunting.

Muley_73 · Nov 23, 2019

wow unreal. Utah sportsmen deserve exactly what they have.

headshot05 · Nov 23, 2019

We have a pretty good sized farm in unit 9A. I would say that the smaller units has helped tremendously. We see more and more deer and bigger bucks every year. Easily 25-30 bucks per every 100 doe we see. I also have spent quite a bit of time hunting the Forrest in 9A and it is ten fold better than it has been since around 99-00

grizzly · Nov 23, 2019

EFA, you missed my point entirely. As soon as the state starts actually MANAGING by herd we can start the experiment.

There are not individual decisions made for each herd; ie localized fires, feed, elevations, predators, winters, breeding seasons, counts, fawn survival, etc.

Colorado will shut down certain areas for specific seasons after bad winters, for example. They run different seasons for high country, high buck:doe ratio, east of I70, and more. Utah manages the same seasons and virtually the same tag numbers at the North end of the state as the south, regardless of whether we're coming off a horrible winter up north or a horrible drought down south. They're not shutting down certain areas for the rifle hunt, for example, during certain rough years. They maintain virtually the same management style and seasons for every area in every year.

They can count all the herds they want (and poorly at that) but they aren't "managing" those herds at an individual level.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

Vanilla · Nov 23, 2019

Bess, you're acting like Option 2 was popular amongst hunters. If I recall, it was quite the opposite. It was one group pushing it and got what they wanted.

I know I certainly did not support it. Don?t pretend you were the lone voice of reason and now you are in a big ?I told you so? moment. Heck, didn't EFA get involved with game management and UWC directly because option 2 passed?

ridgetops · Nov 24, 2019

If we're going to micro manage the deer herds and have sub- units. Why not manage the hunters on the 81 deer herd units, I believe most of the antlerless hunts are managed on these 81 units already. Why not do the same with the bucks? Seems like it would be a better way to go. I know the Stansbury range is crashing right now but the Oquirrh's are doing much better because it's mostly private and hunter access is difficult. The data shows the unit as a whole looking good but with twice the amount of hunters hitting the Stansbury's. It is getting way overhunted for what deer are surviving on that mountain. This is a good example where the 81 units would really help and we could specifically cut tags on the Stansburys. This way of management could help several units out there.

see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_

scopenstalk · Nov 24, 2019

+100 ridge

woodruffhunter · Nov 27, 2019

Bessy:

It was really sad up here

elkassassin · Nov 27, 2019

>Bessy:
>
>It was really sad up here
>

Here Too Woodruff!

I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

liecabucks · Nov 27, 2019

I don't think it's gonna matter what happens with management in the far north end of the state after this storm kills the remaining herd breading spike by 3. Southeast Idaho and southwest Wyoming could be bone city come
Spring as well. This snow is HEAVY and will set up like concrete. Just what the herd needs, another extreme winter!!

Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...