I am pretty sure SFW didnt have much influence in 2001.... I had a Spring black bear permit that year. I could be wrong but I don't think so. I will give credit where credit is due but SFW likes to take credit for a lot of things that are positive when in reality they had little or nothing to do with it.
Don Gets his Peay day
- Thread starter BIGJOHNT
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Hawkeye
Long Time Member
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- 3,014
That is a great analogy grizzly. But to make it even more accurate with regards to the expo tags, you should promise everyone a ?full accounting? in order to entice them to make the deal only to reverse course after the fact and tell them that it's none of their business how the money was spent.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-18 AT 02:34PM (MST)[p]Huntin50,
You could tell me every little detail of work that they do and it wouldn't matter.
Because at the end of the day, they still make a huge profit off of a public resource and there's still an end result. The result to me, doesn't look good.
As hunters, it would be niave to think we are headed down the right path just because some projects are being done. SFW makes a killing and our Deer numbers are still down.
To me, that's not acceptable. It's not good enough
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
You could tell me every little detail of work that they do and it wouldn't matter.
Because at the end of the day, they still make a huge profit off of a public resource and there's still an end result. The result to me, doesn't look good.
As hunters, it would be niave to think we are headed down the right path just because some projects are being done. SFW makes a killing and our Deer numbers are still down.
To me, that's not acceptable. It's not good enough
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-18 AT 03:31PM (MST)[p]Hoss,
I have helped with conservation groups for 25 years. I used to be on SFW board. My name is currently on the Logan chapture check book. I have written checks for the past 20 years for many of Cache Valley wildlife projects.
Every time when the feeding program was started in Bear Lake and Cache Valley, SFW leaders made the phone calls and got things going, often paying for feed until the DWR kicked in. I know. I wrote many of the checks.
Travis Hobbs got the deer feeding started in Garden City. He has been on our SFW committee for years. He even used his own dump truck and tractors to make areas to feed, on his own expense.
Over the past 20 years sportsmen have helped feed deer when needed. SFW leadership began and often funded the feeding to get things going.
Over the past 30 years or so. Jackie Hancey feed the elk on Millville face and sportsmen helped her.
Other groups were in some at Garden City pictures as well. I know the facts.
Dikndirt,
My uncle worked in the Ogden DWR office. He worked for the DWR for over 30 years. Vallentine was the director. There was no spring bear hunt. Many thought it was gone forever, because of anti-hunting pressure. We got another DWR director, we have people who are pro hunting making decisions now. We got the spring bear hunt back. I know the facts.
Griz,
Conservation tags are the same for RMEF and MDF. I agree we have too many of them. They are providing projects to help fund for the future of wildlife, habitat, and hunters.
Billy,
If you look around, deer numbers are down in ID,WY,CO, and Ut. The three previous states have more winter range and less people. Lots have been done to try to help our deer herd. In Utah we don't have 3-7 bucks per 100 does. SFW has done what could be done. They are not sitting on their hands which used to be protocol.
By the way I'm not saying that what SFW has done in Utah is best for sportsmen in other states. They need to decide. I'm glad that sportsmen have a good political voice to protect what we love in Utah and now more on the Federal level.
I have helped with conservation groups for 25 years. I used to be on SFW board. My name is currently on the Logan chapture check book. I have written checks for the past 20 years for many of Cache Valley wildlife projects.
Every time when the feeding program was started in Bear Lake and Cache Valley, SFW leaders made the phone calls and got things going, often paying for feed until the DWR kicked in. I know. I wrote many of the checks.
Travis Hobbs got the deer feeding started in Garden City. He has been on our SFW committee for years. He even used his own dump truck and tractors to make areas to feed, on his own expense.
Over the past 20 years sportsmen have helped feed deer when needed. SFW leadership began and often funded the feeding to get things going.
Over the past 30 years or so. Jackie Hancey feed the elk on Millville face and sportsmen helped her.
Other groups were in some at Garden City pictures as well. I know the facts.
Dikndirt,
My uncle worked in the Ogden DWR office. He worked for the DWR for over 30 years. Vallentine was the director. There was no spring bear hunt. Many thought it was gone forever, because of anti-hunting pressure. We got another DWR director, we have people who are pro hunting making decisions now. We got the spring bear hunt back. I know the facts.
Griz,
Conservation tags are the same for RMEF and MDF. I agree we have too many of them. They are providing projects to help fund for the future of wildlife, habitat, and hunters.
Billy,
If you look around, deer numbers are down in ID,WY,CO, and Ut. The three previous states have more winter range and less people. Lots have been done to try to help our deer herd. In Utah we don't have 3-7 bucks per 100 does. SFW has done what could be done. They are not sitting on their hands which used to be protocol.
By the way I'm not saying that what SFW has done in Utah is best for sportsmen in other states. They need to decide. I'm glad that sportsmen have a good political voice to protect what we love in Utah and now more on the Federal level.
So you are willing to tell me that because of SFW we got the spring bear hunt back? or becuse of a new director? I tried to research when SFW began but could not find the answer. We never lost the Spring hunt because it never existed until 2001. So what is the true answer was SFW responsible or was it your Uncle?
grizzly
Long Time Member
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- 5,597
Will somebody let me know when they'll be dropping their truck and title off at my house so I can sell it. Make sure it's a nice truck, equivalent to a premium tag.
I'll make you all a deal, I'll honor the same "projects, policies, programs, and personnel" standard in how I chose to use the retained earnings from the sell of the vehicle.
I'll even use part of it to pay for a big check and post the picture on MM. Of course, you don't get to ask where the money I kept was spent or why it was commingled in my other bank accounts. You don't have the right to know that. I'll even get somebody I know to post on MM that it was spent wisely and that will have to suffice.
I don't know why none of you will take me up on this offer. You'll get a big check and a photo-op for social media and single-party verification of the funds. What's not to love?
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
I'll make you all a deal, I'll honor the same "projects, policies, programs, and personnel" standard in how I chose to use the retained earnings from the sell of the vehicle.
I'll even use part of it to pay for a big check and post the picture on MM. Of course, you don't get to ask where the money I kept was spent or why it was commingled in my other bank accounts. You don't have the right to know that. I'll even get somebody I know to post on MM that it was spent wisely and that will have to suffice.
I don't know why none of you will take me up on this offer. You'll get a big check and a photo-op for social media and single-party verification of the funds. What's not to love?
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
Huntin 50 I was able to find the date SFW was founded, 1993 according to an article by Tom Wharton. Sfw could very well have been involved with the Spring Bear hunt and like I said I am willing to give credit where credit is due. I still will not be convinced that the good SFW has done in the past exempts them from being totally transparent with the monies generated from the Expo tags. As Hawkeye has and others have stated so many times those tags belong to the public and they at least deserve to know where that revenue goes.
Dikndirt,
You might not know the history of Utah DWR. I'm not going to go through everything on the web. In the 80's and 90's part of sportsmen license fees were being used to fund non game species. The DWR director's at times were not even pro big game hunting, according to hunters who were employed by DWR, I'll just say.
One DWR director said, hunting is a family tradition, it doesn't matter the shape of our deer herds.That same time we didn't have a spring bear hunt.
Prop 5 passed, thanks to SFW and being politically involved.
The spring bear hunt was allowed again. The Spring bear hunt did exist before 2001, it was taken away. I don't know or have all the facts in front of me.
You might not know the history of Utah DWR. I'm not going to go through everything on the web. In the 80's and 90's part of sportsmen license fees were being used to fund non game species. The DWR director's at times were not even pro big game hunting, according to hunters who were employed by DWR, I'll just say.
One DWR director said, hunting is a family tradition, it doesn't matter the shape of our deer herds.That same time we didn't have a spring bear hunt.
Prop 5 passed, thanks to SFW and being politically involved.
The spring bear hunt was allowed again. The Spring bear hunt did exist before 2001, it was taken away. I don't know or have all the facts in front of me.
customweld
Active Member
- Messages
- 606
I have a question. If those tags are worth so much, why can't the state auction them off and cut out the middle man? Then set up local committees to help steer projects and funding.
I get a kick people on mm think i am a spokesman for SFW. I also get a kick out iif those that have no idea how the system works and the requirements on conservation tags and where the money must be spent. But then the blind leading the blind. SFW has kept its obligations to the state on what they have done.
I wish all the big money was going in to pay the leaders. They live like they need it. So much guessing how things are done. I gusee i need to learn to be the jackass whisperer because that seems to be the only communication some of you understand.
I wish all the big money was going in to pay the leaders. They live like they need it. So much guessing how things are done. I gusee i need to learn to be the jackass whisperer because that seems to be the only communication some of you understand.
hossblur
Long Time Member
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- 10,521
Dikndirt:
You are correct, they started in 93'. Do you remember what funded them? Raffles. Mostly on guns. Plus membership fees. I was around in 93'. There was no doubt they helped in prop 5.
But then Don figured out a sweet little scheme where he took the publics money(tags), sold them back to the same public, and he took a nice cut out of it.
Not much has changed. The Don still gets paid by $fw for the deep pockets he brings in. He may not be on the board, but I bet he takes on more than any who are. He became a bad PR problem, so $fw simply took him off leadership, but he STILL GETS PAID by $fw.
Last. The email I got about feeding last year came from MDF. The go fund me as well. Kinda seems for the millions $fw takes in yearly to "save the mule deer", they wouldn't need volunteered equipment, nor feed.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
You are correct, they started in 93'. Do you remember what funded them? Raffles. Mostly on guns. Plus membership fees. I was around in 93'. There was no doubt they helped in prop 5.
But then Don figured out a sweet little scheme where he took the publics money(tags), sold them back to the same public, and he took a nice cut out of it.
Not much has changed. The Don still gets paid by $fw for the deep pockets he brings in. He may not be on the board, but I bet he takes on more than any who are. He became a bad PR problem, so $fw simply took him off leadership, but he STILL GETS PAID by $fw.
Last. The email I got about feeding last year came from MDF. The go fund me as well. Kinda seems for the millions $fw takes in yearly to "save the mule deer", they wouldn't need volunteered equipment, nor feed.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
customweld......
that same question has been asked multiple times but its always a horse ##### answer.
Kind of like how the DWR explained how they were gonna do the expo contract bid and bent the rules with a RFP.
It's no auction without John Bair at the helm. Just don't ask him to auction off cow elk tags. They don't bring enough money to make it worth his time.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
that same question has been asked multiple times but its always a horse ##### answer.
Kind of like how the DWR explained how they were gonna do the expo contract bid and bent the rules with a RFP.
It's no auction without John Bair at the helm. Just don't ask him to auction off cow elk tags. They don't bring enough money to make it worth his time.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-18 AT 00:50AM (MST)[p]I'm interested in finding some data. I came across the number of applicants for general season deer in 2017. 151,103 people. At 10$ per application, that's 1,511,030.00 (1.5 million dollars)strictly for general season deer. Granted, I didn't consider nonresidents but you'll quickly see where I'm going with this..Seeing this made me wonder, how much money does Utah bring in for all the different hunts in the states draw and where can I find these numbers?
If the state was to double the application fee of 10$ to 20$.... That would be an increase of 1.5 million dollars in revenue just for general season hunt applications alone!
55% of those applicants drew out. that's 83,106 people multiplied by 40$ tag fee is 3,324,266 dollars for general season deer tags. Change the general season deer tag fee to 52$ instead of 40$ and you have an increase of 1 million dollars in revenue just from general season deer tags with a tag increase of 12$. That's a total revenue increase of 2.5 million for general season deer tags! Simply by increasing application fees 10$ and increasing general season deer tags 12$. Who wouldn't pay an extra 22$ to hunt general season deer each year? I haven't even spoke about any other tags and increases of revenue they could bring.
What I'm getting at is this....
We don't need $FW to pimp out our wildlife and we don't need a middle man to auction off tags. We have more than enough hunters in Utah who would love to volunteer and donate their time to projects and I'm sure they won't expect a pat on the back or a new truck.
The Wildlife board knows this. So is there backroom deals where if you scratch my back, I'll scratch your back and we can all make out like bandits?
I know the wildlife board tries to make a good case that we need these groups. I know I've seen the board bend some of their own rules and not even follow their own administrative rules to do some things where it has raised some eyebrows.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
If the state was to double the application fee of 10$ to 20$.... That would be an increase of 1.5 million dollars in revenue just for general season hunt applications alone!
55% of those applicants drew out. that's 83,106 people multiplied by 40$ tag fee is 3,324,266 dollars for general season deer tags. Change the general season deer tag fee to 52$ instead of 40$ and you have an increase of 1 million dollars in revenue just from general season deer tags with a tag increase of 12$. That's a total revenue increase of 2.5 million for general season deer tags! Simply by increasing application fees 10$ and increasing general season deer tags 12$. Who wouldn't pay an extra 22$ to hunt general season deer each year? I haven't even spoke about any other tags and increases of revenue they could bring.
What I'm getting at is this....
We don't need $FW to pimp out our wildlife and we don't need a middle man to auction off tags. We have more than enough hunters in Utah who would love to volunteer and donate their time to projects and I'm sure they won't expect a pat on the back or a new truck.
The Wildlife board knows this. So is there backroom deals where if you scratch my back, I'll scratch your back and we can all make out like bandits?
I know the wildlife board tries to make a good case that we need these groups. I know I've seen the board bend some of their own rules and not even follow their own administrative rules to do some things where it has raised some eyebrows.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Muley_73
Very Active Member
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- 2,784
Too funny. All the interweb dwellers with a better plan. Yet it never happens. Plenty of people to volunteer...ask Lee how many were willing to step up even a tiny bit. All this banter and guess how it started again. From Don moving up the ladder and pushing his agenda. Some people are doers and some are talkers. So all of you please tell me what you're all doing to make the wildlife better in the state of Utah. I've been waiting since 93 and I haven't seen a single needle pushed. Just whining about those that are actually moving the needle. The internet is an easy place to create fakes but it's also any easy place to see them. Im gonna guess POTUS saw who was fake and who was the real deal, that seems to kinda be one of his things.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,108
>Too funny. All the interweb
>dwellers with a better plan.
> Yet it never happens.
> Plenty of people to
>volunteer...ask Lee how many were
>willing to step up even
>a tiny bit. All
>this banter and guess how
>it started again. From Don
>moving up the ladder and
>pushing his agenda. Some
>people are doers and some
>are talkers. So all
>of you please tell me
>what you're all doing to
>make the wildlife better in
>the state of Utah. I've
>been waiting since 93 and
>I haven't seen a single
>needle pushed. Just whining
>about those that are actually
>moving the needle. The
>internet is an easy place
>to create fakes but it's
>also any easy place to
>see them. Im gonna
>guess POTUS saw who was
>fake and who was the
>real deal, that seems
>to kinda be one of
>his things.
So, what was Don's agenda on the capital steps in 1993? What is it now? When did the size of the antlers start to matter?
>dwellers with a better plan.
> Yet it never happens.
> Plenty of people to
>volunteer...ask Lee how many were
>willing to step up even
>a tiny bit. All
>this banter and guess how
>it started again. From Don
>moving up the ladder and
>pushing his agenda. Some
>people are doers and some
>are talkers. So all
>of you please tell me
>what you're all doing to
>make the wildlife better in
>the state of Utah. I've
>been waiting since 93 and
>I haven't seen a single
>needle pushed. Just whining
>about those that are actually
>moving the needle. The
>internet is an easy place
>to create fakes but it's
>also any easy place to
>see them. Im gonna
>guess POTUS saw who was
>fake and who was the
>real deal, that seems
>to kinda be one of
>his things.
So, what was Don's agenda on the capital steps in 1993? What is it now? When did the size of the antlers start to matter?
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-18 AT 07:34AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-18 AT 07:32?AM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-18 AT 07:19?AM (MST)
Muley,
If you think don and his SFW crew carry more weight than all other hunters, then that's what's funny.
Nobody has asked me to volunteer but yet again you wouldn't see me sporting an SFW ball cap either. So maybe that's why. You do know there's nearly 300k hunters in Utah right? Or do only the koolaid drinkers get an invite?
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-18 AT 07:19?AM (MST)
Muley,
If you think don and his SFW crew carry more weight than all other hunters, then that's what's funny.
Nobody has asked me to volunteer but yet again you wouldn't see me sporting an SFW ball cap either. So maybe that's why. You do know there's nearly 300k hunters in Utah right? Or do only the koolaid drinkers get an invite?
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,130
BBob DWR is never going to direct and drive mass volunteer projects. You think money being wasted by SFW but you think a government entity would do better. I do not know if anyone in SFW is getting payed to be over these volunteer projects but I will guarantee someone from the DWR would be paid to be over the projects no one in the government works for free. I do not know the exact rules and obligations that govern the DWR but it is a little more complicated than you imply for the DWR to just raise tag prices and spend it as they wish even if what they want to spend it on is positive projects that everyone agrees would be good for the wildlife of Utah.
Yes the government could keep raising the price of permits or app fees or just raise taxes to generate more money but when will it stop the average worker in Utah pay has not kept up with inflation in the private sector or fees and taxes that State and local governments have passed the last 10 years It is easy to say raise the price of something that is important to you or to me but it is not easy to those that are struggling.
Yes the government could keep raising the price of permits or app fees or just raise taxes to generate more money but when will it stop the average worker in Utah pay has not kept up with inflation in the private sector or fees and taxes that State and local governments have passed the last 10 years It is easy to say raise the price of something that is important to you or to me but it is not easy to those that are struggling.
The DWR is always asking for help. All you need to do is drop into an office and ask. It might be delivering something simple as proclamations or work on a water system. Difference is SFW is always looking and asking for projects. Same as anyone can. Then they jump in and get it done. The division has learned who to go to for action.
If is interesting to see those who have their opinions as to the way SFW works, who gets paid and how much. What Don Peay has to do with SFW or if he sits on y he board or not. Dreamers out there who think they know.
UAC started out as an organization with great intent. Problem was most were fence sitters who only wanted to gripe and not produce. Lee tried and i will say Lee worked hard at making the UAC go probably out of his own pocket. With very little help he couldnt pull it off. Hats off to Lee for trying. To bad yhhe other members didn't pull their load or the UAC would still exist.
If is interesting to see those who have their opinions as to the way SFW works, who gets paid and how much. What Don Peay has to do with SFW or if he sits on y he board or not. Dreamers out there who think they know.
UAC started out as an organization with great intent. Problem was most were fence sitters who only wanted to gripe and not produce. Lee tried and i will say Lee worked hard at making the UAC go probably out of his own pocket. With very little help he couldnt pull it off. Hats off to Lee for trying. To bad yhhe other members didn't pull their load or the UAC would still exist.
Muley, why are you NOT a member of $FW?
There was a better plan, the good ol' boys club of Utardia don't like better plans so they changed the rules in the middle of the game. Remember?
since you're the smartest one around here, could you explain to us how 30% is greater than 100%?
thanks in advance.
There was a better plan, the good ol' boys club of Utardia don't like better plans so they changed the rules in the middle of the game. Remember?
since you're the smartest one around here, could you explain to us how 30% is greater than 100%?
thanks in advance.
hossblur
Long Time Member
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- 10,521
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-18 AT 09:31AM (MST)[p]Bird. You should look up the definition of "volunteer". When I bid jobs and folks pay me to complete them, that's not volunteering. $fw takes money in exchange for what they do. Millions of dollars in fact.
Now. Ill be fair. When the THE DON saw a crisis and turned it into an opportunity, the tech wasn't there to auction tags.
But get real. I just entered Arizona's raffle. Its done over the internet. The expo is 10000% a revenue source for a special interest group. Those tags can easily be auctioned off via online. The overhead would be nearly nothing, and the DWR would keep all of it.
I buy off gun broker, eBay, etc. Its not some 80' s country singer, Jon bairs cowboy hat, or THE DONS glad handing that bring the money. Its the tags.
Its 2018. I haven't been to the expo in a decade. But are you really telling us that trade show is anything but a trade show? Am I too believe none of you guys wouldn't enter your $5 to the lottery if you didn't have to drive to slc to do it? Are we really supposed to believe the AI tag wouldn't go for 6 figures if not for Lee Greenwood? And are we really believing that guts who take wounded vets hunting would stop overnight if they can't wear an $fw hat?
I look forward to all the "great" things that will come to Utah outdoorsman with Don Peay speaking for us, and his handpicked senator Mitt Romney paving the way.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Now. Ill be fair. When the THE DON saw a crisis and turned it into an opportunity, the tech wasn't there to auction tags.
But get real. I just entered Arizona's raffle. Its done over the internet. The expo is 10000% a revenue source for a special interest group. Those tags can easily be auctioned off via online. The overhead would be nearly nothing, and the DWR would keep all of it.
I buy off gun broker, eBay, etc. Its not some 80' s country singer, Jon bairs cowboy hat, or THE DONS glad handing that bring the money. Its the tags.
Its 2018. I haven't been to the expo in a decade. But are you really telling us that trade show is anything but a trade show? Am I too believe none of you guys wouldn't enter your $5 to the lottery if you didn't have to drive to slc to do it? Are we really supposed to believe the AI tag wouldn't go for 6 figures if not for Lee Greenwood? And are we really believing that guts who take wounded vets hunting would stop overnight if they can't wear an $fw hat?
I look forward to all the "great" things that will come to Utah outdoorsman with Don Peay speaking for us, and his handpicked senator Mitt Romney paving the way.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Hoss everything I said was correct in my previous post. Travis Hobbs, like other sportsmen have used their own equipment to get feeding programs started and funds from SFW for feed until the DWR kicked in. That is one advantage of having local chaptures, with their own check book, who can write a check, and get things going. We don't need to get permission for head quarter from another state.
From the 200 expo permits, the 5 dollar application fee was going to Nevada. ZERO percentage was going to help wildlife. Most of the hunters who draw an Expo tag are ave hunters, still have to pay for the permit, and hunt on public ground. The permits still go to ave public hunters. Those hunters are willing to help out wildlife a little and not just complain.
Now if the 200 permits were for the rich, and the rich could apply multiple times for the same permit, that would be unfair. That is not the case. All have an equal chance.
From the 200 expo permits, the 5 dollar application fee was going to Nevada. ZERO percentage was going to help wildlife. Most of the hunters who draw an Expo tag are ave hunters, still have to pay for the permit, and hunt on public ground. The permits still go to ave public hunters. Those hunters are willing to help out wildlife a little and not just complain.
Now if the 200 permits were for the rich, and the rich could apply multiple times for the same permit, that would be unfair. That is not the case. All have an equal chance.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,521
I didn't say you were lying. But if I was more technically advanced I'd forward you the pics from MDF. And the go fund me from them as well. I have $100 cc receipt.
How much was rmef going to keep of that $5?
Oh, that's right, rmef had no plan for cyber security. I mean all those membership fees, conservation donations, ECT. RMEF could never handle 1 states expo, what with the 49 others it does.
But, ill ask u. The only reason those boys volunteered was because THE DON nd his scheme? If it wasn't for all the ourifiiter booths in slc in Feb, none of those guys would have done what they did?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
How much was rmef going to keep of that $5?
Oh, that's right, rmef had no plan for cyber security. I mean all those membership fees, conservation donations, ECT. RMEF could never handle 1 states expo, what with the 49 others it does.
But, ill ask u. The only reason those boys volunteered was because THE DON nd his scheme? If it wasn't for all the ourifiiter booths in slc in Feb, none of those guys would have done what they did?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Hoss, its not the money but those who jump in for the labor to get projects done. No question md jumped in as well as other groups. That is great but when the problem was spotted SFW got it started and mostly because they didnt have to wait for a board or someone to say it was ok.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,521
That's the game.
A handful of dudes, saw a problem and jumped in to fix it, THEREFORE $fw should be handed millions.
If that's the case then on a year like this one shouldn't $fw refund money?
Why bird, Muley, whoever, do you suppose the other 49 states in the union look to the "massive success" that $fw is, yet none of them want it? Is it that their populace is also lazy? Dumb? A bunch of whinners?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
A handful of dudes, saw a problem and jumped in to fix it, THEREFORE $fw should be handed millions.
If that's the case then on a year like this one shouldn't $fw refund money?
Why bird, Muley, whoever, do you suppose the other 49 states in the union look to the "massive success" that $fw is, yet none of them want it? Is it that their populace is also lazy? Dumb? A bunch of whinners?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,597
Hoss, you're on your "A" Game today... Hilarious lines
Its not some 80' s country singer, Jon Bair's cowboy hat, or THE DONS glad handing that bring the money. Its the tags.
Are we really supposed to believe the Antelope Island tag wouldn't go for 6 figures if not for Lee Greenwood?
And are we really believing that guys who take wounded vets hunting would stop overnight if they can't wear an $fw hat?
Its not some 80' s country singer, Jon Bair's cowboy hat, or THE DONS glad handing that bring the money. Its the tags.
Are we really supposed to believe the Antelope Island tag wouldn't go for 6 figures if not for Lee Greenwood?
And are we really believing that guys who take wounded vets hunting would stop overnight if they can't wear an $fw hat?
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,784
Dik,
It wasn't directed at you. But if you like it feel free.
70% 30% blah blah blah. You all always claim this giant number of silent sportsmen. But there is nothing to claim. They are silent because they just go with the flow. They chose to not have a bigger voice.
It wasn't directed at you. But if you like it feel free.
70% 30% blah blah blah. You all always claim this giant number of silent sportsmen. But there is nothing to claim. They are silent because they just go with the flow. They chose to not have a bigger voice.
I listened to hoss a few posts ago tell us what is hoing on with SFW and Don Peay. I didnt know yiu had all the inside info. Coarse your way off on your logic but then driminh and make believe is a big thing so some. Griz is also good at logic even though it i s false logic. But them again cant expect anything different from those wantabe people.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,521
>You know what I get from
>a thread like this?
>Hunters are canibals. We
>eat our own. Pretty
>disturbing really and plenty of
>blame to go around.
>
"Never Let a serious crisis go to waste"
-Rahm Emanuel
Don saw a crisis, he took advantage. The only ones pretending otherwise are the apologists in here.
A guy who against the North American Model, against stream access, against public land, should never be on any council for hunting. His presence there is nothing but bad for all.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>a thread like this?
>Hunters are canibals. We
>eat our own. Pretty
>disturbing really and plenty of
>blame to go around.
>
"Never Let a serious crisis go to waste"
-Rahm Emanuel
Don saw a crisis, he took advantage. The only ones pretending otherwise are the apologists in here.
A guy who against the North American Model, against stream access, against public land, should never be on any council for hunting. His presence there is nothing but bad for all.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Globalhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 112
From an outsider's perspective, it seems like more effective gains could be made - by a bit more cooperation from both sides of the issue?
Insults most certainly will never gain much traction, but neither will non-transparency either. I most certainly don't know the facts, but there seems to be plenty of both going around?
I for one like Utah's expo tag opportunities, it seems to give a lot of folks an opportunity to "win" a coveted tag that might not otherwise be available....and at a price all can afford?! Perhaps it could be done differently, I don't know...but one thing is for certain - "if it pays, it stays." Thus I fail to see the rub some have with the program...or is it just those administering it that others don't like? The way they do it, etc?
Utah has general tags to be had, landowner tags, statewide gov tags to the highest bidder, unit specific conservation tags to the highest bidder, expo tags available to all for same price / opportunity and LE tags available to all for same app fees across the state. It takes money to manage wildlife, and everyone is looking for an opportunity of their own to hunt, benefit and make money. Pleasing everyone is simply impossible...but it seems to me everyone has an opportunity one way or another? Frankly, I wish every state offered as many opportunities and ways to generate funding...and profits as does UT.
I don't know Mr. Peay at all...but I most certainly respect a capitalist mindset, its the very essence of what's made our country the richest / most powerful nation in the world in just under 250 years. Maybe SFW could be handled differently, I don't know enough to comment on that? But...if an opportunity was there for some, and others benefited too (as well as benefiting wildlife) then I say good for them. That's the American Way!
Insults most certainly will never gain much traction, but neither will non-transparency either. I most certainly don't know the facts, but there seems to be plenty of both going around?
I for one like Utah's expo tag opportunities, it seems to give a lot of folks an opportunity to "win" a coveted tag that might not otherwise be available....and at a price all can afford?! Perhaps it could be done differently, I don't know...but one thing is for certain - "if it pays, it stays." Thus I fail to see the rub some have with the program...or is it just those administering it that others don't like? The way they do it, etc?
Utah has general tags to be had, landowner tags, statewide gov tags to the highest bidder, unit specific conservation tags to the highest bidder, expo tags available to all for same price / opportunity and LE tags available to all for same app fees across the state. It takes money to manage wildlife, and everyone is looking for an opportunity of their own to hunt, benefit and make money. Pleasing everyone is simply impossible...but it seems to me everyone has an opportunity one way or another? Frankly, I wish every state offered as many opportunities and ways to generate funding...and profits as does UT.
I don't know Mr. Peay at all...but I most certainly respect a capitalist mindset, its the very essence of what's made our country the richest / most powerful nation in the world in just under 250 years. Maybe SFW could be handled differently, I don't know enough to comment on that? But...if an opportunity was there for some, and others benefited too (as well as benefiting wildlife) then I say good for them. That's the American Way!
BIGJOHNT
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,178
>From an outsider's perspective, it seems
>like more effective gains could
>be made - by a
>bit more cooperation from both
>sides of the issue?
>
>Insults most certainly will never gain
>much traction, but neither will
>non-transparency either. I most
>certainly don't know the facts,
>but there seems to be
>plenty of both going around?
>
>
>I for one like Utah's expo
>tag opportunities, it seems to
>give a lot of folks
>an opportunity to "win" a
>coveted tag that might not
>otherwise be available....and at a
>price all can afford?!
>Perhaps it could be done
>differently, I don't know...but one
>thing is for certain -
>"if it pays, it stays."
> Thus I fail to
>see the rub some have
>with the program...or is it
>just those administering it that
>others don't like? The
>way they do it, etc?
>
>
>Utah has general tags to be
>had, landowner tags, statewide gov
>tags to the highest bidder,
>unit specific conservation tags to
>the highest bidder, expo tags
>available to all for same
>price / opportunity and LE
>tags available to all for
>same app fees across the
>state. It takes money
>to manage wildlife, and everyone
>is looking for an opportunity
>of their own to hunt,
>benefit and make money.
>Pleasing everyone is simply impossible...but
>it seems to me everyone
>has an opportunity one way
>or another? Frankly, I
>wish every state offered as
>many opportunities and ways to
>generate funding...and profits as does
>UT.
>
>I don't know Mr. Peay at
>all...but I most certainly respect
>a capitalist mindset, its the
>very essence of what's made
>our country the richest /
>most powerful nation in the
>world in just under 250
>years. Maybe SFW could
>be handled differently, I don't
>know enough to comment on
>that? But...if an opportunity
>was there for some, and
>others benefited too (as well
>as benefiting wildlife) then I
>say good for them.
>That's the American Way!
>
>
GlobaI I don't know who you are but I like the way you are thinking.
>like more effective gains could
>be made - by a
>bit more cooperation from both
>sides of the issue?
>
>Insults most certainly will never gain
>much traction, but neither will
>non-transparency either. I most
>certainly don't know the facts,
>but there seems to be
>plenty of both going around?
>
>
>I for one like Utah's expo
>tag opportunities, it seems to
>give a lot of folks
>an opportunity to "win" a
>coveted tag that might not
>otherwise be available....and at a
>price all can afford?!
>Perhaps it could be done
>differently, I don't know...but one
>thing is for certain -
>"if it pays, it stays."
> Thus I fail to
>see the rub some have
>with the program...or is it
>just those administering it that
>others don't like? The
>way they do it, etc?
>
>
>Utah has general tags to be
>had, landowner tags, statewide gov
>tags to the highest bidder,
>unit specific conservation tags to
>the highest bidder, expo tags
>available to all for same
>price / opportunity and LE
>tags available to all for
>same app fees across the
>state. It takes money
>to manage wildlife, and everyone
>is looking for an opportunity
>of their own to hunt,
>benefit and make money.
>Pleasing everyone is simply impossible...but
>it seems to me everyone
>has an opportunity one way
>or another? Frankly, I
>wish every state offered as
>many opportunities and ways to
>generate funding...and profits as does
>UT.
>
>I don't know Mr. Peay at
>all...but I most certainly respect
>a capitalist mindset, its the
>very essence of what's made
>our country the richest /
>most powerful nation in the
>world in just under 250
>years. Maybe SFW could
>be handled differently, I don't
>know enough to comment on
>that? But...if an opportunity
>was there for some, and
>others benefited too (as well
>as benefiting wildlife) then I
>say good for them.
>That's the American Way!
>
>
GlobaI I don't know who you are but I like the way you are thinking.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
Globalhunter-
You raise some interesting points. I too am a huge fan of capitalism ? as an economics model. When it comes to game management, however, I prefer the North American Conservation Model. The further commercialization of hunting is one of the major threats that we as sportsmen face. I am not interested in moving to the European model of hunting/game management.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
You raise some interesting points. I too am a huge fan of capitalism ? as an economics model. When it comes to game management, however, I prefer the North American Conservation Model. The further commercialization of hunting is one of the major threats that we as sportsmen face. I am not interested in moving to the European model of hunting/game management.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
I went to a presentation here in AZ 12-14 years ago where Don was giving a presentation on the virtues of the SFW and how AZ should consider following Utah's lead. I can tell you this. If there was ever a silver tongued salesman it is him. That guy is as smooth as silk with his presentation and public speaking skills.
On a scale of 1-10 on the trust factor with 10 being the highest score possible, Don is a zero.
On a scale of 1-10 on the trust factor with 10 being the highest score possible, Don is a zero.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,108
>From an outsider's perspective, it seems
>like more effective gains could
>be made - by a
>bit more cooperation from both
>sides of the issue?
>
>Insults most certainly will never gain
>much traction, but neither will
>non-transparency either. I most
>certainly don't know the facts,
>but there seems to be
>plenty of both going around?
>
>
>I for one like Utah's expo
>tag opportunities, it seems to
>give a lot of folks
>an opportunity to "win" a
>coveted tag that might not
>otherwise be available....and at a
>price all can afford?!
>Perhaps it could be done
>differently, I don't know...but one
>thing is for certain -
>"if it pays, it stays."
> Thus I fail to
>see the rub some have
>with the program...or is it
>just those administering it that
>others don't like? The
>way they do it, etc?
>
>
>Utah has general tags to be
>had, landowner tags, statewide gov
>tags to the highest bidder,
>unit specific conservation tags to
>the highest bidder, expo tags
>available to all for same
>price / opportunity and LE
>tags available to all for
>same app fees across the
>state. It takes money
>to manage wildlife, and everyone
>is looking for an opportunity
>of their own to hunt,
>benefit and make money.
>Pleasing everyone is simply impossible...but
>it seems to me everyone
>has an opportunity one way
>or another? Frankly, I
>wish every state offered as
>many opportunities and ways to
>generate funding...and profits as does
>UT.
>
>I don't know Mr. Peay at
>all...but I most certainly respect
>a capitalist mindset, its the
>very essence of what's made
>our country the richest /
>most powerful nation in the
>world in just under 250
>years. Maybe SFW could
>be handled differently, I don't
>know enough to comment on
>that? But...if an opportunity
>was there for some, and
>others benefited too (as well
>as benefiting wildlife) then I
>say good for them.
>That's the American Way!
>
>
Sounds great! Maybe we could apply that philosophy to other PUBLICLY owned assets like the Interstate System and state roads, public lands and waterways, schools, airports, seaports, and National Parks and Monuments, etc. We could then open up bids to allow private companies to administer those PUBLIC assets with a profit (maybe of their own choosing). Of course, the government agency would still, through a government appointed commission, develop rules and regulations and draws and auctions to the highest bidders and then set quotas, specific locations and times that would work for most everyone. And we could also then invite the private companies who administer the programs to not only appear before the government appointed commission to petition for some of those rules and regulations, but we could also have some of them appointed as members on the commission. Meanwhile, the vast majority of the money needed to pay for these assets continues to come from the average citizen in the form of user fees and taxes even if he/she never or seldom gets to use the assets. Why don't you go to your state legislature and present a proposal like this for the state road system? You'd make millions and after all, it's the AMERICAN WAY.
>like more effective gains could
>be made - by a
>bit more cooperation from both
>sides of the issue?
>
>Insults most certainly will never gain
>much traction, but neither will
>non-transparency either. I most
>certainly don't know the facts,
>but there seems to be
>plenty of both going around?
>
>
>I for one like Utah's expo
>tag opportunities, it seems to
>give a lot of folks
>an opportunity to "win" a
>coveted tag that might not
>otherwise be available....and at a
>price all can afford?!
>Perhaps it could be done
>differently, I don't know...but one
>thing is for certain -
>"if it pays, it stays."
> Thus I fail to
>see the rub some have
>with the program...or is it
>just those administering it that
>others don't like? The
>way they do it, etc?
>
>
>Utah has general tags to be
>had, landowner tags, statewide gov
>tags to the highest bidder,
>unit specific conservation tags to
>the highest bidder, expo tags
>available to all for same
>price / opportunity and LE
>tags available to all for
>same app fees across the
>state. It takes money
>to manage wildlife, and everyone
>is looking for an opportunity
>of their own to hunt,
>benefit and make money.
>Pleasing everyone is simply impossible...but
>it seems to me everyone
>has an opportunity one way
>or another? Frankly, I
>wish every state offered as
>many opportunities and ways to
>generate funding...and profits as does
>UT.
>
>I don't know Mr. Peay at
>all...but I most certainly respect
>a capitalist mindset, its the
>very essence of what's made
>our country the richest /
>most powerful nation in the
>world in just under 250
>years. Maybe SFW could
>be handled differently, I don't
>know enough to comment on
>that? But...if an opportunity
>was there for some, and
>others benefited too (as well
>as benefiting wildlife) then I
>say good for them.
>That's the American Way!
>
>
Sounds great! Maybe we could apply that philosophy to other PUBLICLY owned assets like the Interstate System and state roads, public lands and waterways, schools, airports, seaports, and National Parks and Monuments, etc. We could then open up bids to allow private companies to administer those PUBLIC assets with a profit (maybe of their own choosing). Of course, the government agency would still, through a government appointed commission, develop rules and regulations and draws and auctions to the highest bidders and then set quotas, specific locations and times that would work for most everyone. And we could also then invite the private companies who administer the programs to not only appear before the government appointed commission to petition for some of those rules and regulations, but we could also have some of them appointed as members on the commission. Meanwhile, the vast majority of the money needed to pay for these assets continues to come from the average citizen in the form of user fees and taxes even if he/she never or seldom gets to use the assets. Why don't you go to your state legislature and present a proposal like this for the state road system? You'd make millions and after all, it's the AMERICAN WAY.
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,597
>Lee,
>You think anyone makes money on
>state road construction?
Yep, in a competitive bid process. Something that can't be said regarding Expo Tags.
As to GlobalHunters point, is it really capitalism when it's welfare? Would you be okay with people selling food stamps for profit?
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>You think anyone makes money on
>state road construction?
Yep, in a competitive bid process. Something that can't be said regarding Expo Tags.
As to GlobalHunters point, is it really capitalism when it's welfare? Would you be okay with people selling food stamps for profit?
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,108
LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-18 AT 10:47PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-18 AT 10:45?PM (MST)
>Grizz,
>Are you answering for Lee or
>just looking to jump in?
>Lol
I can answer for myself, thank you!
Yes, someone can make money on the CONSTRUCTION of a road, per their negotiated CONSTRUCTION contract, but their contract doesn't allow them to withhold any money for up to two years for future projects the Road Dept may need later nor are they allowed to make money on the way the road is used by the public and they cannot subsequently make traffic rules and regulations that could increase their income on the roads they already built or will build.
Nor are they allowed to pull 200 miles of roads out of the public domain to be in a user toll draw where they take 70% of the draw money.
>Grizz,
>Are you answering for Lee or
>just looking to jump in?
>Lol
I can answer for myself, thank you!
Yes, someone can make money on the CONSTRUCTION of a road, per their negotiated CONSTRUCTION contract, but their contract doesn't allow them to withhold any money for up to two years for future projects the Road Dept may need later nor are they allowed to make money on the way the road is used by the public and they cannot subsequently make traffic rules and regulations that could increase their income on the roads they already built or will build.
Nor are they allowed to pull 200 miles of roads out of the public domain to be in a user toll draw where they take 70% of the draw money.
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,784
You guys crack me up. I wonder what direction Don will push. With all the these negatives it's amazing he keeps taking the next step forward.
Interesting that the state can keep that side of politics perfect yet Don can somehow fix the system or trick the state into all of this. AMAZING!!!
Interesting that the state can keep that side of politics perfect yet Don can somehow fix the system or trick the state into all of this. AMAZING!!!
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,597
Utah politicians regularly defy the will of the people, hence the record number of Ballot Initiatives this year; and this is in spite of the millions of dollars and over 100,000 signatures required for each initiative.
The Republican Party actually went all the way to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals attempting to overturn a law with a public support margin of 2-1. Pretending like something coming out of the Utah Legislature implies legitimacy or public sentiment is provably false.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
The Republican Party actually went all the way to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals attempting to overturn a law with a public support margin of 2-1. Pretending like something coming out of the Utah Legislature implies legitimacy or public sentiment is provably false.
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,108
>
>From the 200 expo permits, the
>5 dollar application fee was
>going to Nevada. ZERO
>percentage was going to help
>wildlife. Most of the
>hunters who draw an Expo
>tag are ave hunters, still
>have to pay for the
>permit, and hunt on public
>ground. The permits still
>go to ave public hunters.
> Those hunters are willing
>to help out wildlife a
>little and not just complain.
>
>
I don't know where you're getting those numbers, but the Fallon NV company (Systems Consultants) gets $3.01 per application (not $5.00) while the other $6.99 of the current $10.00 public draw application fee is retained by the DWR. In other words, Systems Consultants gets 30% of the public draw fee, while SFW/MDF get 70% (more than double the percentage) of the Expo permit draw fee.
>From the 200 expo permits, the
>5 dollar application fee was
>going to Nevada. ZERO
>percentage was going to help
>wildlife. Most of the
>hunters who draw an Expo
>tag are ave hunters, still
>have to pay for the
>permit, and hunt on public
>ground. The permits still
>go to ave public hunters.
> Those hunters are willing
>to help out wildlife a
>little and not just complain.
>
>
I don't know where you're getting those numbers, but the Fallon NV company (Systems Consultants) gets $3.01 per application (not $5.00) while the other $6.99 of the current $10.00 public draw application fee is retained by the DWR. In other words, Systems Consultants gets 30% of the public draw fee, while SFW/MDF get 70% (more than double the percentage) of the Expo permit draw fee.
Elk i believe the state set the two year limit on the funs as only so much can be done.
Griz, I love your statement quoting Don about fly fishermen. Yes they are greedy. They want everything fly only and harvest no fish. Then complain about the fish becoming too small. I know this is off subject but you put it at the bottom of your statement.
Griz, I love your statement quoting Don about fly fishermen. Yes they are greedy. They want everything fly only and harvest no fish. Then complain about the fish becoming too small. I know this is off subject but you put it at the bottom of your statement.
Elk I believe the state set the limit of 2 years and i am sure they had their reasons.
Griz, off subject but i like your statement about what you said Don said about flyfishermen. Yes they are greedy. Want everything fly fishing only harvest no fish then complain the fish are too small.
Griz, off subject but i like your statement about what you said Don said about flyfishermen. Yes they are greedy. Want everything fly fishing only harvest no fish then complain the fish are too small.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,033
I Think We're gonna need a Room!
It's gonna take a F'N Big One!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
It's gonna take a F'N Big One!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
The Parasites are spreading north.
https://idahostatejournal.com/opini...cle_5b43a32f-a4fa-5728-b5aa-59bbd3260ced.html
https://idahostatejournal.com/opini...cle_5b43a32f-a4fa-5728-b5aa-59bbd3260ced.html
Interesting tow. Except the story is misleading. With percentages etc. Obviously the author did not do his homework on what and how it works in Utah.
Now i could care less wgat happens in Idaho as I do not hunt there and fo not plan to hunt there. I fish there occasionally and taking a boat to Idaho is a pain but i live with it as thats the way it is there.
Now i could care less wgat happens in Idaho as I do not hunt there and fo not plan to hunt there. I fish there occasionally and taking a boat to Idaho is a pain but i live with it as thats the way it is there.
yea stopping at the invasive species check point for a whole 3 minutes is such a pain. Sucks that Idaho wants to keep Utardias parasites out.
Maybe if Tardville had their own check points their lakes wouldn't be full of invasive mussels and snails.
must not fish in Wyoming either.
Maybe if Tardville had their own check points their lakes wouldn't be full of invasive mussels and snails.
must not fish in Wyoming either.
Globalhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 112
>Globalhunter-
>
>You raise some interesting points.
>I too am a huge
>fan of capitalism ? as
>an economics model. When
>it comes to game management,
>however, I prefer the North
>American Conservation Model. The further
>commercialization of hunting is one
>of the major threats that
>we as sportsmen face.
>I am not interested in
>moving to the European model
>of hunting/game management.
>
>-Hawkeye-
>
>My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
>
>"It is fair to ask how
>much comes in with the
>five dollar application fees and
>how much went onto the
>ground.? Don Peay of
>SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board
>Meeting.
>
>"There will be a full accounting
>of how the applications fees
>are spent.? Don Peay
>of SFW - 9/26/2006 -
>Monstermuleys.com
Sir, I certainly won't argue against your opinion - you most definitely are entitled to.
Commercialization although maybe not be a popular move amongst some, is a reality unto itself in all walks of life nowadays...including hunting.
An unfortunate fact is this...although we all want what's best for wildlife, unless there's a benefit for "me", "you" or "us", few are willing to go and do what it takes. We have lives, jobs, responsibilities, etc, etc. Few can sacrifice time, money, and effort without a return...period! Like it or not, that's reality!
I for one know sometimes the return benefits others rather than myself, but if some overall good is done too - then so be it. I don't work for free, nor do I expect others will either. Show me a perfect system and I'll show you a fairy tale.
To me, and just my opinion, UT does seem to be trying to be all-inclusive to all walks of life / economics, as it pertains to their hunting opportunities? Again, that's not a fact - just one man's opinion.
I for one can't afford to buy statewide gov tags, but I applaud those who can, and thank them for it. I can / do on occasion buy regional tags / LO tags for a price I can afford, and so far in 2018 I've spent over $9,000 in raffles (never win a damn thing of course) but I also feel good about my participation in an effort towards conservation, etc.
Sometimes I think the underlying motive as it pertains towards the animosity regarding "sales / commercialization" of hunting is simply....jealousy! If / when true, the only person one has to blame for that is themselves. If you want more, go earn more / do more to get it, don't degrade those who have.
>
>You raise some interesting points.
>I too am a huge
>fan of capitalism ? as
>an economics model. When
>it comes to game management,
>however, I prefer the North
>American Conservation Model. The further
>commercialization of hunting is one
>of the major threats that
>we as sportsmen face.
>I am not interested in
>moving to the European model
>of hunting/game management.
>
>-Hawkeye-
>
>My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
>
>"It is fair to ask how
>much comes in with the
>five dollar application fees and
>how much went onto the
>ground.? Don Peay of
>SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board
>Meeting.
>
>"There will be a full accounting
>of how the applications fees
>are spent.? Don Peay
>of SFW - 9/26/2006 -
>Monstermuleys.com
Sir, I certainly won't argue against your opinion - you most definitely are entitled to.
Commercialization although maybe not be a popular move amongst some, is a reality unto itself in all walks of life nowadays...including hunting.
An unfortunate fact is this...although we all want what's best for wildlife, unless there's a benefit for "me", "you" or "us", few are willing to go and do what it takes. We have lives, jobs, responsibilities, etc, etc. Few can sacrifice time, money, and effort without a return...period! Like it or not, that's reality!
I for one know sometimes the return benefits others rather than myself, but if some overall good is done too - then so be it. I don't work for free, nor do I expect others will either. Show me a perfect system and I'll show you a fairy tale.
To me, and just my opinion, UT does seem to be trying to be all-inclusive to all walks of life / economics, as it pertains to their hunting opportunities? Again, that's not a fact - just one man's opinion.
I for one can't afford to buy statewide gov tags, but I applaud those who can, and thank them for it. I can / do on occasion buy regional tags / LO tags for a price I can afford, and so far in 2018 I've spent over $9,000 in raffles (never win a damn thing of course) but I also feel good about my participation in an effort towards conservation, etc.
Sometimes I think the underlying motive as it pertains towards the animosity regarding "sales / commercialization" of hunting is simply....jealousy! If / when true, the only person one has to blame for that is themselves. If you want more, go earn more / do more to get it, don't degrade those who have.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,108
Although I still don't see a good friend on this council, I can't help but think that the Utah wildlife management model will raise some red flags when it comes up. There are indeed some high rollers here that depend on the average Joe hunter for their living and they'll likely see through the smoke screen. Let's hope so!
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,130
A Question for all of you experts.
How many times do you kick a dead horse before you realize it is dead?
Or.
Do you just start another thread?
How many times do you kick a dead horse before you realize it is dead?
Or.
Do you just start another thread?
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
When in doubt, kick it one more time.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,108
>A Question for all of you
>experts.
>
>How many times do you kick
>a dead horse before you
>realize it is dead?
>
>Or.
>
>Do you just start another thread?
>
We start another thread like this one because the Utah horse may be dead, but the disease that killed it is very much alive and keeps trying to spread.
>experts.
>
>How many times do you kick
>a dead horse before you
>realize it is dead?
>
>Or.
>
>Do you just start another thread?
>
We start another thread like this one because the Utah horse may be dead, but the disease that killed it is very much alive and keeps trying to spread.
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,784
When you become consumed by one individual or one particular agenda it usually is a hard habit to break. Look that the libs attacking Trump. Eventually you'd think they would look around and realize they are not based in reality, but it doesn't happen. They just fight harder.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-18 AT 02:43PM (MST)[p]Unfortunately, my personal concerns with DP and SFW are based entirely in reality. They promised sportsmen transparency and a "full accounting" while lobbying for the expo tags and then once they received the tags they reversed course entirely. See quotes below. As I mentioned in my post above, I am not losing any sleep over DP's new appointment, and I hope he does well (for his sake and ours). However, I am also not going to pretend that DP represents average sportsmen. His views and comments regarding public lands, stream access and the NACM are well publicized.
Happy Fourth of July to all of my fellow mm.com friends. Have a great time but be safe out there with the high fire risk!
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Happy Fourth of July to all of my fellow mm.com friends. Have a great time but be safe out there with the high fire risk!
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
Tikka
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,867
>>>For all you SFW haters doubters,
>>>you should hook up with
>>>the LGBTQ and equal rights
>>>communities, they could teach you
>>>guys how to get sh!t
>>>done...
>>
>>Is that the group that taught
>>Peay
>
>You just proved my point... complainer
>not a doer...
Let me revise what I posted runamuk. I haven't been a member of SFW since about 2010, I could care less if they're here today or gone tomorrow...
My point is this bickering about how corrupt they are has been going on for years... nothing changes, either get together as a group and make a change or stop complaining it gets old....
>>>you should hook up with
>>>the LGBTQ and equal rights
>>>communities, they could teach you
>>>guys how to get sh!t
>>>done...
>>
>>Is that the group that taught
>>Peay
>
>You just proved my point... complainer
>not a doer...
Let me revise what I posted runamuk. I haven't been a member of SFW since about 2010, I could care less if they're here today or gone tomorrow...
My point is this bickering about how corrupt they are has been going on for years... nothing changes, either get together as a group and make a change or stop complaining it gets old....
runamuk
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,519
>>>>For all you SFW haters doubters,
>>>>you should hook up with
>>>>the LGBTQ and equal rights
>>>>communities, they could teach you
>>>>guys how to get sh!t
>>>>done...
>>>
>>>Is that the group that taught
>>>Peay
>>
>>You just proved my point... complainer
>>not a doer...
>
>
> Let me revise what I
>posted runamuk. I haven't been
>a member of SFW since
>about 2010, I could care
>less if they're here today
>or gone tomorrow...
>
> My point is this bickering
>about how corrupt they are
>has been going on for
>years... nothing changes, either get
>together as a group and
>make a change or stop
>complaining it gets old....
Oh,ok I get it now..
Comments like this...
"For all you SFW haters doubters, you should hook up with the LGBTQ and equal rights communities, they could teach you guys how to get sh!t done..."
are constructive and lend merit to the conversation.
Many Thanks Tikka for setting me straight.
>>>>you should hook up with
>>>>the LGBTQ and equal rights
>>>>communities, they could teach you
>>>>guys how to get sh!t
>>>>done...
>>>
>>>Is that the group that taught
>>>Peay
>>
>>You just proved my point... complainer
>>not a doer...
>
>
> Let me revise what I
>posted runamuk. I haven't been
>a member of SFW since
>about 2010, I could care
>less if they're here today
>or gone tomorrow...
>
> My point is this bickering
>about how corrupt they are
>has been going on for
>years... nothing changes, either get
>together as a group and
>make a change or stop
>complaining it gets old....
Oh,ok I get it now..
Comments like this...
"For all you SFW haters doubters, you should hook up with the LGBTQ and equal rights communities, they could teach you guys how to get sh!t done..."
are constructive and lend merit to the conversation.
Many Thanks Tikka for setting me straight.
idahohuntr
Active Member
- Messages
- 155
>When you become consumed by one
>individual or one particular agenda
>it usually is a hard
>habit to break. Look
>that the libs attacking Trump.
> Eventually you'd think they
>would look around and realize
>they are not based in
>reality, but it doesn't happen.
>They just fight harder.
I'm grateful people don't just give up when they spot corruption and misuse of public resources. I can understand why the sfw supporters would wish these pesky facts would stop coming up, but since it helps educate sportsmen to keep this cancer out of our states, I'm glad nobody is 'breaking the habit' of telling the truth on corrupt people.
>individual or one particular agenda
>it usually is a hard
>habit to break. Look
>that the libs attacking Trump.
> Eventually you'd think they
>would look around and realize
>they are not based in
>reality, but it doesn't happen.
>They just fight harder.
I'm grateful people don't just give up when they spot corruption and misuse of public resources. I can understand why the sfw supporters would wish these pesky facts would stop coming up, but since it helps educate sportsmen to keep this cancer out of our states, I'm glad nobody is 'breaking the habit' of telling the truth on corrupt people.
LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-18 AT 09:15PM (MST)[p]First off Idaho, their not facts they are rumors. If they were facts SFW would have been shut down by now. Speculation sometimes helps but it can also hurt. When someone accuses a group of being dishonest, then they are dishonest to themselves. Speculation does not make something true
idahohuntr
Active Member
- Messages
- 155
>LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-18
>AT 09:15?PM (MST)
>
>First off Idaho, their not facts
>they are rumors. If
>they were facts SFW would
>have been shut down by
>now. Speculation sometimes helps
>but it can also hurt.
> When someone accuses a
>group of being dishonest, then
>they are dishonest to themselves.
> Speculation does not make
>something true
So in your mind it's only a rumor that 100% is greater than 30%? The corruption you try and defend is truly laughable.
>AT 09:15?PM (MST)
>
>First off Idaho, their not facts
>they are rumors. If
>they were facts SFW would
>have been shut down by
>now. Speculation sometimes helps
>but it can also hurt.
> When someone accuses a
>group of being dishonest, then
>they are dishonest to themselves.
> Speculation does not make
>something true
So in your mind it's only a rumor that 100% is greater than 30%? The corruption you try and defend is truly laughable.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-18 AT 09:49PM (MST)[p]Birdman-
The statements posted below my signature are not ?rumors.? They are direct quotes made by DP on behalf of SFW. Unfortunately, those promises were never kept. No accusations here just pesky facts.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
The statements posted below my signature are not ?rumors.? They are direct quotes made by DP on behalf of SFW. Unfortunately, those promises were never kept. No accusations here just pesky facts.
-Hawkeye-
My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:
"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.
"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
idahohuntr
Active Member
- Messages
- 155
>I dont know about your statements
>but idaho is making statements
>about corruption and if it
>was true SFW would have
>been brought down. There isnt
>and that is why SFW
>is still herr doing good.
>
The corruption is primarily in the people selecting bids and making decisions on these tags for the State of Utah...those people are supposed to be stewards of the publics resources...not finding clever ways to make 30% sound better than 100%.
>but idaho is making statements
>about corruption and if it
>was true SFW would have
>been brought down. There isnt
>and that is why SFW
>is still herr doing good.
>
The corruption is primarily in the people selecting bids and making decisions on these tags for the State of Utah...those people are supposed to be stewards of the publics resources...not finding clever ways to make 30% sound better than 100%.
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,597
>I dont know about your statements
>but idaho is making statements
>about corruption and if it
>was true SFW would have
>been brought down. There isnt
>and that is why SFW
>is still herr doing good.
So you would argue there is no corruption within the Clinton's based on the fact they haven't been brought down?
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>but idaho is making statements
>about corruption and if it
>was true SFW would have
>been brought down. There isnt
>and that is why SFW
>is still herr doing good.
So you would argue there is no corruption within the Clinton's based on the fact they haven't been brought down?
Grizzly
-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV
"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
LAST EDITED ON Jul-04-18 AT 01:51PM (MST)[p]>>I dont know about your statements
>>but idaho is making statements
>>about corruption and if it
>>was true SFW would have
>>been brought down. There isnt
>>and that is why SFW
>>is still herr doing good.
>
>So you would argue there is
>no corruption within the Clinton's
>based on the fact they
>haven't been brought down?
>
>Grizzly
>
I really feel sorry for Birdman because he seems like a great guy, BUT has been duped so bad by DP/SFW that he can't think straight and just keeps coming up with the same lame excuses just like this one that you called him out on!
>>but idaho is making statements
>>about corruption and if it
>>was true SFW would have
>>been brought down. There isnt
>>and that is why SFW
>>is still herr doing good.
>
>So you would argue there is
>no corruption within the Clinton's
>based on the fact they
>haven't been brought down?
>
>Grizzly
>
I really feel sorry for Birdman because he seems like a great guy, BUT has been duped so bad by DP/SFW that he can't think straight and just keeps coming up with the same lame excuses just like this one that you called him out on!
Your right topgun. I been duped by Dp and SFW. You see years back i listened how SFW and Don Peay were ruining hunting and turning it into a rich mans sport. I decided to find out things so i could bring them down. The more i studied what they were foing and attending meetings opposing there desires the more i learned that maybe they had something and had the desire to improve hunting for all. I also learned hhiw things worked in the government. It didnt take long to realize what they were doing and accomplishing i joined the ranks. Now as tgeir coordinator or fishing is see much of what is going on and like what i see. Yes they duped me good.
