Elk Tag Quotas

Zim · Dec 28, 2012

Was kinda curious about these huge increases in elk tag quotas. I usually hear about some public opinion surveys or something about opportunity vs. quality prior to seeing such alarming increases. I thought I remember even filling one out years ago. Was there some kind of press release about a change in management philosophy or something I missed? What is the rational for these huge increases?

Quality will suffer greatly with 135% increases like unit 1.

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BuzzH · Dec 28, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-12 AT 02:22PM (MST)[p]They manage statewide for 25-30 bulls per hundred cows with the exception of units 1, 9, 10, and 23 which is 40 per hundred.

If they're increasing tag numbers the bull to cow ratio is obviously well over 40 per 100...and a great reason to be applying for it. If the BtoC ratios are higher than objective, they should be increasing tag numbers. Its called management.

Theres plenty of research that shows bull to cow ratios over 30-40 per hundred is not a good idea, for all kinds of reasons.

Arizona is managing elk correctly, including in unit 1.

I guess elk populations and bull to cow ratios never change in 6 years...so tag numbers should stay the same?

Also, unit 1 tags have increased yearly at a much slower rate than 135%...way slower. 2009 150 tags, 2010/2011 245 tags.

Nothing like a bit of misinformation.

Quality wont necessarily suffer either...could get better and also with lower Bull to Cow ratios, the bulls dont bust up their antlers as much.

I think New Mexico is a better option.

WapitiBob · Dec 28, 2012

They posted the proposed tag numbers on their web site; increases are due to herd objectives needing to be met.

Zim · Dec 28, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-12 AT 10:47PM (MST)[p]BH,

AZ elk tags are up significantly in almost every unit I checked. Unit 1 offered 150 tags for what......a decade? 90% of the unit burns. Now they offer 350 tags? Excuse me for seeking input!

Let me take a wild guess.......You don't have 11 AZ elk points so you don't even have a horse in this race.

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WapitiBob · Dec 28, 2012

They're wanting to trim the numbers down for sure.

BuzzH · Dec 28, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-12 AT 11:13PM (MST)[p]Zim,

No, unit 1 offered 245 licenses in 2011 and 2012, not 150...increasing to 350 this year (archery).

What you may want to take note on is that they have reduced late rifle tags in unit 1 from 425 to 365. They also alternate years on early rut rifle tags.

Try checking the actual harvest statistics for ALL bull elk killed in unit 1. See how much thats fluctuated in the last 5 years. (not much...hint)

Also take note that the bull-to-cow ratio has increased in unit 1 significantly in the last 5 years.

No, I dont have 11 points...and I never will in AZ. But what I have had is 3 bull elk permits in AZ since 2008 and took 2 great bulls as well. I wont wait longer than 2-3 years to have another either.

I felt guilty about drawing back-to-back great AZ bull tags, so donated this years bull elk tag to hunt-of-a-lifetime or could have added another good 6 point to the pile in the rafters. It felt great donating that $600 elk tag to a young hunter though, no regrets.

Zim · Dec 29, 2012

>No, unit 1 offered 245 licenses
>in 2011 and 2012, not
>150...increasing to 350 this year
>(archery).
>
>What you may want to take
>note on is that they
>have reduced late rifle tags
>in unit 1 from 425
>to 365. They also alternate
>years on early rut rifle
>tags.

No, Never said they had 150 tags in 2011 nor 2012. I said the quota was 150 for a decade straight. Just going off memory, but I believe that is correct.

I don't take much stock in the late rifle quota nor those success rates. I am an archery hunter and value that trend much more. That trend has decreased steadily and significantly. 57% to 35%

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billythekid · Dec 29, 2012

zimmers,

no worries with tag numbers. you should love your hunt as it represents more opportunity and your socialistic mentalities.

Zim · Dec 29, 2012

>zimmers,
>
>no worries with tag numbers.
>you should love your hunt
>as it represents more opportunity
>and your socialistic mentalities.

Why am I not surprised? The SFW lover is back. Sorry about that KTVK thingy I set up last March shuttin down your AZHB2072. Ouch! Standing by to help stop it's red headed stepchild whenever it returns. And we all know it will return...........after AZSFW greases enough politicians.

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Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club

BuzzH · Dec 29, 2012

Zim,

Of course you dont put much "stock" into the late bull permit numbers declining, you cant see the big picture or signifance of many other factors you choose to ignore. No surprise there as your lack of reading the most obvious of sign is impressive in its own right. You've quite the knack for making easy chit difficult and painting yourself into corners.

Thats why you're just so "perplexed"...stay that way and watch others enjoy opportunites and shoot bulls you only wish you could.

I hear unit 9 will only take you another 10 points to draw.

Laffin'

Zim · Dec 29, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-12 AT 02:42PM (MST)[p]BH, Why not go start your own thread since you find it impossible to post anything positive?

You have never been remotely close to even drawing this unit. Thanks, but I am really not interested in listening to your opinions of it.

"watch others enjoy opportunites and shoot bulls you only wish you could." ............Really? On my last elk hunt I solo backpacked up to 11,800', where others would not go, never saw a sole, and pinwheeled a 330" bull. All from an unrated low demand NM unit. Had several locals tell me it was the biggest they saw come down that year, where there were 150 tags issued. Just don't choose to advertise it. I've been around the block.

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Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club

billythekid · Dec 29, 2012

hey zimmers,

even though tag numbers are rising the unit "might" put out some good bulls. consider hiring an outfitter, you might need the help... i heard of a few different ones that took some tremendous bulls out of the area this last year.

OutdoorWriter · Dec 30, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-12 AT 08:00AM (MST)[p]>>...where others would not go, never saw a sole...<<

Should have checked your boots! ;-)

And Happy New Year!!

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

Zim · Dec 30, 2012

>>>...where others would not go, never saw a sole...<<
>
>Should have checked your boots! ;-)
>

Beats the hell out of the lose........loose crowd! I swear 90% of posters mix those up!

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Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club

Zim · Dec 30, 2012

>even though tag numbers are rising
>the unit "might" put out
>some good bulls. consider
>hiring an outfitter, you might
>need the help... i
>heard of a few different
>ones that took some tremendous
>bulls out of the area
>this last year.

Yes, a couple posters told me a few pigs came in off the reservation to feed in the burn area, and got harvested. Nothing against outfitters, but I've been a DIYer since 1996. I know unit 1 decent already, and evaluate my areas pretty quick, often bumping into where the outfitters go anyway. Heck on my recent New Hampshire moose hunt, I scouted the 10 days prior to my hunt and was actually helping a couple outfitters. Even gave my best spot to an OF who showed up with a father/son plus cameraman the first day! He saw I was there first and was leaving but I wanted them to have it considering his entourage.

Ended up taking the biggest bull from the unit anyway. (they post every harvest)

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Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club

billythekid · Dec 30, 2012

you should do just fine. put in and kill a good one.

piper · Jan 1, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-13 AT 05:34PM (MST)[p]I must not be as good of a hunter as some of you, now back to the subject.
I was told that AZGF has lost a lawsuit or two regarding elk and livestock grazing permitees? Sound plausible to me, and that would explain the drive to cut elk numbers down,and
no doubt government employees would be reluctant to say much about this because its so political.

Livestock grazing has a huge impact as far as elk numbers go, especially in the more arid states like AZ, NM, UT and Nevada, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

canon · Jan 1, 2013

What game and fish is doing is not supported by any data at all. Any agency that does not have mandatory reporting has no idea what they are talking about. I know lots and lots of people were against this huge increase and sent in many emails etc.., yet it fell on deaf ears once again. Interesting how the game and fish acts like public input matters when it is proven time and time again, it does not. Harvest rates will not go up with this many hunters in the field. Will their be big bulls? Absolutely, however they will clam up and be running for their lives. My biggest problem with the increase is why is it during the archery hunt when they know archery hunters have to be stealthy to get a good shot on game... unlike a rifle hunt where you can bang them at 500+ yards. It is the quality of the hunt, not the animal that is going to suffer with 425 archery hunters in the field at once.... This is the exact kind of thing that makes people think twice about hunting. Being able to observe animals in their natural state is what hooks hunters for life, not watching them run like the movie bambi... Its awesome to see this and unfortunately will be compromised for many during this hunt.. A shame..
Some big elk will get killed, but those who cant handle the masses should steer clear.

WapitiBob · Jan 1, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-13 AT 09:07PM (MST)[p]The most people they had at a meeting was 8. The least was 0. The public apparently wants a tag and doesn't really care how they get it.

canon · Jan 1, 2013

Keep in mind mtgs were during late rifle elk hunt and times certainly were not convenient. Before 5? Most guys are at work. I know of no less than 25 people who emailed them with their dissatisfaction for the tag increases.