Ethical or Not???

S

southslope82

Active Member
Messages
643
So I just wanted to hear peoples opinions on this subject

This mostly applies to the early hunts, But do you consider it Ethical to go in after an animal in a place your likley not going to get out if you happened to get it before the meat spoils?? I mean lets face it there are some nasty hell holes out there deer, elk and other big game animals live in.. In some cases there are days that soar well above the 80 degree farenheit mark and alot hotter. If your hunting elk solo and your 5 plus miles away from the truck or whatever and get one down your stop watch begins cause from there out it is only a matter of time before its ruined.
Bottom line there are many scenarios out there that could spoil alot of meat really fast unless your full prepared.
My opinion is I won't let that stop me from hunting anywere and if I get something down I will always do what I can to save as much of the animal as possible. I think shade and getting the hide off as soon as possible are major things when hunting warm weather.. SO what do ya think??
 
I think you answered your own question. Learn how to cape & move on. Ethics is up to your own conscience.

Slick
 
If it was an evening kill I would work all night to get it out. Then take the next day off and sleep all day. If it was a morning kill I would take Tendies (no brainer) and back quarters and go for rack the second trip. I think back quarters is better than the front quarters. The front quarters are too nervie. But ya I would go hunting in a place where it is risky of game loss.
 
Well,
Normally I'm back in where I really don't have to worry about a Deer spoiling,even if it takes a couple days to get him out.

Been on a few LE Elk hunts where warm weather was a factor,seen it 94 degrees on Elk Ridge one year during season in the middle of the day,yes I had a fridgerator & a generator,several guys were laughing at my gutted fridge,a day or two in to season they weren't laughing,I do not/will not waste meat if at all possible,seems like the early archery hunts it would always be possible to spoil some meat.

Get the hide off quick,quarter them up,bring big coolers & lots of ice & some help to get them out quick!
 
actually yea, I think its unethical to go hunting in a place when your not prepared to salvage all the meat of an animal, if your fully not prepared to get the meat out, its highly unethical, in fact there are laws in places like Alaska,that were made just for people that think like some of you do.
 
There are often times I don't hunt some areas in the early season just because I question whether I'd be able to get an elk out before it spoils. I don't worry too much about a deer as it can be quickly cooled and placed in the shade and then boned out and packed in one haul. The best I've been able to do with an elk is three loads boned out.

If you know you can line up pack animals or friends to get an animal out with expedience, then you are good to go. However, twice I've had the guy with horses fall through and the friends with other obligations they thought they couldn't drop. Managed to get the beasts out.

If you can find some dark, north timber with a seep or spring you will be surprised at how much cooler it can be...
 
As far as elk hunting I am fortunate and get to hunt fairly close to home every year I will run up on the mountain and hunt the 2nd half of the day or a few hours here and there during the week. Usually when we get an elk its always hauled out with horses and panyards "Lucky" yeah I know. But In early archery season If I was to down a bull in the morning and have a 80-95 degree day which is very possible, I would of course do what I could clean and get into some shade. But By the time I got off the mountain 4-5 miles to the truck then down got the horses ready and loaded got back to the kill and boned out and then home or to the butcher or where ever that could be an easy 15 hours later. Probably even longer- Thats Nutts... I couldn't imagine the poor back packer who had to make multiple trips for sure that meat would spoil. Then there are times guys need to worry not only about the meat but the cape too before the hair starts slipping.... Makes me wonder how a guy could get all the meat out when you go back 15-20 miles in the high country on a hot archery season day. Horses are a life saver I often wonder how many animals have been wasted either cause the people were to lazy to take care of it or didn't have the means or come prepared to do so??
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-10 AT 09:49AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-10 AT 09:41?AM (MST)



For me it would be unethical. Let's write the question another way. Is it ethical to shoot an animal just for the antlers, to cape it and take only the hide and horns?

That is what you are really asking. If I was to ever lose more than 10% of the meat to spoilage, I would never be able to hang those antlers in my house. In fact, I killed a 20" wide 10 point whitetail that I didn't find until 3 days later. I did get the antlers, but they are bleached and on a shelf in the barn.

Anyone who is all about the antlers, without regards to getting the meat out, doesn't really respect the animal or the hunt. Even if we are talking a once in a lifetime hunt for a 400 bull, I have no respect for the kind of people whose only real goal is to get a big-un on their wall, when the cost is loss of the meat.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
its totally ethical; if ur hunting a buck or bull ur after the horns; do what u can to get the meat out; if ur not gonna give it ur all to get a giant then why r u applying for that tag; u can much more easily get a doe or cow tag; heck i dont know how many times i passed up a 200 inch muley cuz i was sure all the meat would spoil lol; besides i dont have to worry about meat anyways; theres never anything left of my animals; lol
 
I agree with stinky. In fact I usually pick the hottest part of the season for all my serious hunting here in Kali. That way I can say "oops, the meat spoiled, darn".

j/k

piper is right about Alaska. Every bit of edible meat must be accounted for. It's enforced too. I lost the better part of a caribou once to wolverines up there. I got home without a citation, but just barely.
 
No sorry txhunter58 thats not what I am really asking. I don't want this post to go down hill just yet. The hole topic of taking an animal for horns and thats it is a battered subject around here. Lets quit beating the dead horse and stick to the original post.
 
Here is the original question:

"But do you consider it Ethical to go in after an animal in a place YOUR LIKELY NOT GOING TO GET IT OUT if you happened to get it before the meat spoils??"

I am not sure how NOT to intrepret this question the way I did. If you knowingly shoot an animal without regard to getting the meat out, then you are hunting for the antlers only. You certainly wouldn't shoot an anterless animal under the same circumstances.

If I don't KNOW I will get the vast majority of meat out in good shape, I don't shoot. As stated in most of the posts, 99% of the time there is a way to get it done without meat spoilage if you plan ahead.

Of course, then you have the LOL posts. Some you know not to take seriously, some you are not sure. I just personally don't consider meat spoilage a laughing matter.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-10 AT 11:19AM (MST)[p]southslope- everyone can read your original post, read it again, you asked if its ethical to go after animals when your not fully prepared to get the meat out. Being prepared means being prepared, dance around that all you want, but it can't be taken any other way. Using pack animals ,taking friends, making sure the weather is cool enough, hanging the meat in trees,using shade, covering the meat with sleeping bags during the heat of the day, in other words being prepared, thats ethical. Going solo, and killing an large animal in a place where your not sure you can savage all the meat, thats unethical
 
I believe most need to get a lesson on when meet is spoiled....I grew up hunting in 110 degree weather. Deer that are cooled in the shade...even at that temp will last days. elk is more critical....but break them down and hang the pieces in the shade....in a breezy area if possible. They will not spoil as quick as most think...especially with cool nites.


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
There was a time when i didn't care how far back in i had to go or how hard it was going to be to get my buck out. I was just that big and strong a guy in the very best physical condition. Things could be done with the least effort because i thought hunting and trained year round. I also knew a few tricks of the trade that helped.

Never was or cared much for Elk but i can see where that would be a different story. So for me, we're talking bucks!

Now, i'm not going after anything that i can't glass up from a fairly short distance of my rig. Time has not been the best to this old body. I still can get around, just not as fast and nothing near like the days even 10 years ago!

Joey
 
D13er,
that is the smartest info in a post I've read on this thread so far. If you have a knife, and there is even one tree or piece of shade in the area, you should be able to bone the meat out and hang it in the shade. It will cool enough to keep it till dark, then when the night comes it will cool even more. Then you just need to keep it insulated to keep it cool during the day. (the animal's own hide will keep it cool if you don't have anything else to insulate it with as long as it's in the shade)

It will last two or three days like that even in hot temps if you cool it at night and keep it shaded and insulated during the day.


One of the worst things you can do is cut off a hind quarter and start packing it out in a backpack. It will stay warm for the whole trip out, then it will stay warm until you get it cut into smaller pieces. I like to bone the meat right on the spot, and put it in the shade immediately so it can start cooling. By the time I get the last parts done, I can expect the first stuff to be cooled down enough to pack it out. Don't bone it out and place it directly in your pack because it will not cool down.

There are lots of ways to take care of meat and keep it good for a lot longer than you think. My advice is to learn how to bone out an animal keep it cool even in hot weather. Then, practice on one or two every year so you get it down.


DeerBeDead
 
>I believe most need to get
>a lesson on when meet
>is spoiled....I grew up hunting
>in 110 degree weather. Deer
>that are cooled in the
>shade...even at that temp will
>last days. elk is more
>critical....but break them down and
>hang the pieces in the
>shade....in a breezy area if
>possible. They will not spoil
>as quick as most think...especially
>with cool nites.
>
>
>great post/pic, thanks for sharing
>
>JB
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg



Did somebody hack into JB's MM account?
 
Meet?
or
Meat?
A Websters lesson is almost better than a Biblical lesson.
Just Razzin ya CUPSY,because you RAZZ me when I mis-spell something,lol!
 
ok pay attention guys cuz i know how to prevent meat spoilage; when u find ur trophy u aim dead middle of the front shoulders with a hollow point to ensure a vitals shot and to break down the shoulders; upon the animal being hit quickly chamber another round and break down both hind quarters; that will ensure hes anchored; when u walk up on ur animal and place a few more rounds in his neck and maybe a couple more in his shoulders and hindquarters to ensure the animal is dead; next cape the animal out cut off the back straps and ur done; everything else is non edible
 
Well great question and here is how I look at it. Pick out an area suitable for a 4 wheeler to access the kill. I would recomend a Sportsman 800 with big mudders and a winch. A flat tire repair kit is also handy, those beaver damns have sharp pointed sticks that can cause hell on a tire.

A push bar or good front bumper can help cause minimal damage to your plastic or fenders when going through high vegetation or running over saplings. These little trees are tough enough to with stand at least one run over.

Ya better take some beer along this may take a while, what better way to reward your hard work and success with your kill. Of course by then you should have already had a few prior to even shooting.

Last but not least after you have that sucker loaded up pick a different way out. Remember what I said about running over vegetation you don't want to do it a second time. There are plenty of trees and weeds to pick from so share the love and get back to the road. Anything over a 5 mile ride you better make sure you have plenty of gas.

Ok here is my serious answer,,,,,I try not to put myself in a position were I would not be able to get an animal out without loss of meat. I think D-13 makes a great point.
 
Ok pay attention guys cuz I know how to prevent BS. Avoid reading stinky's posts. His posts are non editable. LOLOL

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
stinky?
Did you tell them you've never spoiled any meat on any animal?
Good Gawd!
When you're out of bullets We are just wondering if there's any horns left,We know there's no meat left,lol!
 
hey bessy; me and qtpie both have governor type tags for the navajo nation for elk; u wanna come down and have a heckuva hunt with us; its suppose to be immediate family but we will tell them u r terras father; thats actually not a question its a statement
 
Though I know there are many people who hunt for meat, I do not, not as a necesity anyway. The delicious wild game meat I am able to harvest from an animal is a wonderful bonus to being in the outdoors with friends and family.
With that said, I don't hike in very far to hunt for an extended period of time. This is because not everyone I enjoy hunting with could go with me. I simply avoid this type of scenerio. As such, my opinion may not be as relevant as those of you who hunt this way regularly.
As for the question, I don't find it particularly unethical to hunt far enough away from everything that meat may spoil. I don't find it unethical to hunt solely for antlers and a cape either. Antlers and a cape will be preserved, honored, and cherished for a lot longer than the meat is.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
Oh thats brilliant browningrage, its not unethical to kill an animal and waste the meat, because the antlers and cape last a lot longer. Thats an attitude that will keep the sport around for a long time.
 
Be prepared for the senario you find yourself in, and yes it is unethical to leave meat to spoil. Not only is it unethical its against the law. I guess it boils down to how you were raised and taught to hunt, many can't help they are slob hunters. JB
 
> Though I know there are
>many people who hunt for
>meat, I do not, not
>as a necesity anyway. The
>delicious wild game meat I
>am able to harvest from
>an animal is a wonderful
>bonus to being in the
>outdoors with friends and family.
>
> With that said, I don't
>hike in very far to
>hunt for an extended period
>of time. This is because
>not everyone I enjoy hunting
>with could go with me.
>I simply avoid this type
>of scenerio. As such, my
>opinion may not be as
>relevant as those of you
>who hunt this way regularly.
>
> As for the question, I
>don't find it particularly unethical
>to hunt far enough away
>from everything that meat may
>spoil. I don't find it
>unethical to hunt solely for
>antlers and a cape either.
>Antlers and a cape will
>be preserved, honored, and cherished
>for a lot longer than
>the meat is.
>

You may not find it unethical as we do, but as you describe it, you have crossed the line to illegal.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I guess I was just raised differently but to me this should not even be a question.

IMO - Every ounce of meat should be harvested and used. Now wether you as the hunter will eat it is another question, but at a minimum you should make sure that 100% of the usable meat gets used by someone.

It is 100% unethical to hunt in an area where you might not be able to get all of the meat out without it spoiling.

TXHunter and D13er have made some good points as well.

Lear how to break down your game and take the extra time and effort to get all of the animal out. YOU OWE IT TO THE ANIMAL!!

That shows more respect for the animal than the cape and antlers ever will.

Ans besides, as pointed out, it is illegal to do anything other than mentioned.
 
Yeah, i kind of wondered if this wasn't more of an IQ test than anything else. I mean, who would actually come on hear to say that they do leave some meat to spoil, if it's back in too far, and not worry much about it? Gotta be low on the smarts dept i'm thinking!

Then again, at times i do get really surprised at the things a few here will say and then try to justify. Some guys will try and mess with or steal every trail cam that they come across on public land and figure that's OK too. Yep, i still get surprised at what some people will say and do...

Joey
 
stinky,
You got a matching tag huh?
So it's gonna be OK if QTPie calls me Daddy? lol!
 
Gimme a break Piper... you said it yourself, its a "sport". You hunt for sport, or in other words for fun, for enjoyment, for entertainment, etc. I don't hunt for meat, but I never waste it.
The problem is that many sportsmen have become embarassed of killing animals due in part because of anti-hunters, but mostly because of the weak position their fellow sportsmen take in defending their chosen past time. "Well, I eat the meat, I love the meat, I hunt for the meat... blah blah blah..."
The truth is, it is just what you said- Hunting is a "sport", and meat is definitely not the sole goal of the sport. Would I intentionally leave an animal's carcass, no way. Am I going to bad mouth a guy that hiked in 5 miles, harvested his animal, and packed out the cape, antlers, and 50 lbs of meat (Leaving the rest)... Again no way.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
Thanks for the comment TxHunter58.
I am sorry that my comment made you think that I would ever do anything illegal. I never would. And after reading back the last part I realized that it did sound as if I thought leaving the carcass was okay. I apologize. That was not my intent.
Leaving the meat WHEN YOU ARE ABLE TO HARVEST ALL OF IT is unethical. The question posted was in regards to hunting far enough away from everything that for sure some of the meat would spoil, or that you would not be able to pack it all out. This is what I don't find unethical, especially with the dwindling number of deer on public land. My comment was definitely more directed to the fact that the meat IS NOT the most important or most prized part of an animal. If it was, we'd all hunt does and cows only and forget about those pesky antlers... :) :)

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
Besides all of that... How many of you have ever taken an animal to the meat processor and when you got it back, it was only like 70 lbs worth...? It happened to me, once. I cut and de-bone all of my own meat now. But wouldn't that also be unethical..? That the butcher must have wasted MY meat..?
Just a follow up question....

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
LOL, qtpie can call you daddy any day. You coming you whining grumpy old fart? Wait, let me restate that. Your coming you whining grumpy ol fart!

PS don't forget to bring a your quad
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-10 AT 12:22PM (MST)[p]Thanks for the clarification. However, to each his own. As I stated eariler, the biggest whitetail I have ever killed was a 20" ten pointer that I shot and didn't recover for 3 days. I just could not hang that one in my house. The unmounted antlers are bleached out and sitting on a shelf in my barn. Not sure why I even kept them, as a reminder I guess.

So even though I do it for sport, I still approach it with awe and reverence. Even though nature has a way of using everything, and every bit of that buck I lost was used by something in nature, I still can not feel good about killing something as great as that buck. The day I kill something just for the big antlers on its head is the day I quit hunting.

Hey southslope, you started this hornets nest whether or not you intended to. Figure it was better to bow out?

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I've been thinking about this topic all night... it's amazing how a simple question can stir up a guys emotions like this...

I realized that my prior comments were terrible and not well thought out. After really thinking about it, I do find it unethical to 'plan' on not harvesting an entire animal once it's been killed. If you ar a back country-backpacking hunter, you are planning on leaving at least some of an animal on the mountain. And I think I have to agree it is unethical...

A couple years ago I was bow hunting at the Boulders. On one small dirt road, my family and I were going along and spotted 2 deer carcasses in the grass... We got out and they had been there only a day, the heads were gone, as were the hind quarters and back straps, but the rest was right there. At the time it made me sick and upset.

Reliving those emotions has reminded of where my ethics on this issue truly are. Harvest the entire animal, or don't go.


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
I am impressed Browningrage!

It takes a real man to admit to something like this and publicly change his stance.

Very well said and props to you.
 
+1. Sometimes controverial subjects really get me thinking, and it has changed my opinion more than once too!

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Thats what that pack on your back is fore cape ,bone , load and go i do it every year and every year it seems to get harder and further i know to many people that take some meat and leave and talk themselves out of coming back for the rest.
 
My day hunting pack usually weighs around 25 pounds, I usually carry a few game bags and a couple pillow cases, ropes, knifes , a saw ,a small tarp,and large plastic bags. If you go prepared, I can't see how you could lose meat to spoilage.
 
Part of the reason that I posted this was because every year I hunt it seems like I run into people who make me wonder "if they get one how are they ever going to get it out?" In the location they are at or how they are prepared. This General season Elk hunt in Utah is what I am mostly refferring to, There seriously are places that to be fully prepared to get an animal out in hot weather would require a helicopter- No joke there are alot of places that you can't even get horses for various reasons. My grandpa would always tell me if I was a such and such a place in no tellem land ha ha that I need to just close my eyes or turn my head cause as I passed through cause you don't even want to think about getting one down in there.. he'd say lol most was coming from personal experience too.. It has been interesting and educational to here these comments. There is such a thing as hunting out of your means I guess ha?
 
I'd love to see a picture of your Whitetail TxHunter58, if you're willing to share...


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
+1 D13r
If you know how to take care of an animal hunting anywhere would not be an issue. Meat can take a lot of heat if the hide is quickly removed, quartered and hung up to air out for while. Have taken numerous desert sheep on back pack trips with temps in the 90's. Never had a problem losing meat even after 2 or 3 days.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

20210612_130112.jpg
4254E633-928F-476A-89BB-F621CEFBA417.jpeg
Screenshot_20211110-071535_Gallery.jpg
KIMG0088~2.JPG
8F44F801-995D-46EC-BC36-B91E50B87B36.jpeg
Elk of North America.jpg
Canon city buck.jpeg
F8B5FB9C-F212-4CD5-9449-BF99B53D494E.png
IMG_1811 (1).jpg
20150914_182837.jpg
Screenshot_20221224_132350_Instagram.jpg
74A0EEBC-0B63-4ADC-9495-33EF93F5D958.jpeg
Back
Top Bottom