Ethics versus Preferences

NVBighorn

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I had this sent to me today. It may have been posted before but we all could use a refresher course.


Ethics versus Preferences

When I give lectures on the topic of hunting, I find that there is a need to distinguish between hunting ethics and hunting aesthetics, or between ethics and preferences. Perhaps due to our underdeveloped understanding of ethics, most people today who think about hunting tend to lump all value questions together under the heading "ethics," without regard for whether that classification is accurate or not. Most of what passes for "hunting ethics" today is really hunting aesthetics. I believe that when hunters speak of a "right way" or a "wrong way" to hunt, they generally mean something more like "the way I like to hunt" versus "the way you like to hunt." (We see this in current disputes about the use of antique muzzleloader rifles versus modern inline muzzleloaders; about hunting with hounds versus dogless stalking; or about the merits of compound bows, recurved bows, longbows, and crossbows.)

Aside from hunter safety and the issue of killing animals cleanly, quickly, and humanely, there are very few ethical issues involved in how the practice of hunting is conducted. Hunters and anti-hunters need to be made more aware of this as well. Much anti-hunting legislation that has been passed so far, in the U.S. and elsewhere, has regulated essentially aesthetic aspects of the hunt: the practice of hunting over bait, the use of one type of technology over another, or the hunting of game with hounds. This is a bit like legislating one's preference for vanilla ice cream. If hunters and anti-hunters were more aware of the essentially aesthetic nature of these various hunting practices, I hazard the guess that there would probably be far less eagerness to regulate or ban certain forms of hunting on the
part of either hunters or anti-hunters.

Examples illustrating "hunting ethics" versus "hunting preferences"
There is a difference between the "morality of hunting" and what many hunters refer to as "the ethics of hunting" (for an example of the latter, see e.g., Posewitz 1994) The first involves the moral discussion of the rightness or wrongness of hunting in general, the latter involves the ethics of a specific hunting practice. The morality of hunting covers all forms of hunting, each with its own individual set of traditions, unique customs, and particular "ethics of practice." In contrast, what most hunters think of as the "ethics of hunting" generally refers to the specific rules that govern a particular form or genre of hunting, or one might think in philosophical terms of different styles of hunting. Each style, genre, or form of hunting has a loyal following and, usually, an internally consistent set of ethical and aesthetic standards that typify the form.

I generally hesitate to weigh in on questions of "hunting ethics," which usually involve more aesthetic than ethical issues. One or two examples may illustrate the point. Shooting ducks on the wing is one case: true devotees of duck hunting insist upon the necessity of a "rule" to shoot ducks only on "the wing," i.e. in the air, and not while they are at rest on the water. The phrase "sitting duck" captures the essence of unsporting practice-the shooting at any target that is not "fair game." And yet, shooting a duck on the water may be a far more deadly shot, more likely to kill the bird cleanly, more guaranteed to put a bird "in the bag" than an ethically riskier shot at a duck flying straightaway at a high speed over forty yards distant. "Potting" ducks (as in killing a duck for the pot, i.e. as food) on the water in the latter case is simply a violation of the aesthetic norms that make duck hunting, duck hunting. The question of how ducks are shot during the course of duck hunting is thus largely (not entirely) an aesthetic issue and not an ethical one at all. This distinction is often misunderstood by hunters as well as by anti-hunters.

Another example may cement the point. The practice of "baiting" game animals is constantly debated among hunters as a question of "hunting ethics." (I will ignore for the moment concerns about CWD and the like.) Critics say that baiting is too easy and that it reduces the amount of effort and skills needed to successfully hunt game animals such as deer, bear, or moose. Practitioners of the art of baiting typically respond, "Don't knock it unless you've tried it." Aside from the moral issues surrounding the vice of laziness and related moral concerns about the lack of human character such a vice implies, baiting does not seem to be an "ethical" issue per se as much as it is an aesthetic issue. Let me explain.

In northern Wisconsin there is at least one individual that I know of who begins his daily baiting of deer at least two months before the beginning of deer season. Reasoning that he wants the deer to show up at his stand in the woods when he is there, he goes out to the woods twice a day: once in the morning to lay out his spread of corn, apples, sugar beets, and whatever else he uses to attract deer to his location, and then once again in the evening to take it all away. That's two trips a day, for two months: or 120 trips to the woods, all in the hopes that the deer become habituated to visiting his chosen site only in daylight (legal shooting) hours. During the two months of baiting, this individual also occasionally climbs in his tree stand over the bait pile for the pleasure of simply watching the
deer that come by. His enjoyment of deer hunting is thus extended considerably in this way, and during the time period when he is simply a wildlife watcher certainly does not involve killing in any way. All of this is for the privilege of being able to select his own venison, "on the hoof" so to speak, come opening day.

Another deer hunter hunts his own land and sits under apple trees that the previous owners planted some seventy-five to a hundred years earlier. He shoots and kills the first deer that comes along on opening day.

Who is to say which hunter has the richer, more authentic hunting experience? If the primary objection against the practice of "baiting" is that it is too easy and requires little or no effort, then certainly the Wisconsin deer hunter has put far more effort into killing his deer than has his counterpart who has merely staked out his deer stand on opening day and rather opportunistically "hunted" the deer he knows beforehand will frequent his apple trees.

In the case of the habitual deer baiter, what outsiders would criticize as unfair advantage and unsporting practice actually contributes to a year round interest in deer. The deer baiter is probably more of a "hunter-naturalist" or "nature hunter" than most hunters. His shot at close range on opening day is almost assured of being a well-aimed, carefully selected, and quickly killing clean shot.

The second hunter may hunt only deer; and only hunt once a year. His hunting experience lasts approximately an hour, or two at the most, among the apple trees on opening day. He may not give much thought to nature, to deer biology, to the wind or the vagaries of scent, or to much else. (Perhaps he is a college professor who is in a hurry to get back into the office for a 9:30 appointment with a student advisee.) Nonetheless, his shot at close range on opening day is almost equally assured of being a well-aimed, carefully sighted, and quickly killing clean shot.

And yet at the moment of the kill, each of these two individuals may feel that pang of remorse: that momentary sense of pity and fear, of attraction and repulsion at what they have done-regret for having killed, but gladness for having done it well. That emotional response may in fact be partly what drives them each year to make the effort that they do make, to get up well before dawn on opening day and to go afield in pursuit of killing a deer. Each individual experiences the hunt in a different way. Each individual takes care to ensure that there is a high probability of killing the animal almost instantly if and when the opportunity to shoot presents itself.

Where these two hunters' experience differs is in the respective style or aesthetics of their hunts, not in the ethics of their hunts. "Ethics" generally is a term that is chronically misused in the popular hunting press. Each hunter follows his own ritual way of preparing for the hunt; each hunter conscientiously minimizes the chances of wounding and losing a deer; and each hunter enjoys the hunt in his own fashion. "Baiting" of game animals seems to attract the same type of criticisms that the potting of sitting ducks does, and for similar reasons. But I think it important to recognize that each form is simply a variation on a theme: the musical metaphor is apt.

Conclusion
For these and other reasons I believe that for the most part, the state and other people should stay out of these hunters' business. Each hunter experiences the hunt in his own idiosyncratic and highly personal way. Assuming the hunter is respecting the laws designed to protect game populations and human life and property, each hunter acts ethically. Neither hunter is hurting anyone else. (The deer, if well shot, certainly feels almost nothing.) Each hunter's choices, whether hunting over bait or hunting on one's own land, simply implies different aesthetic preferences, and little else. I cannot speak for either hunter's experience, nor would I want to impose my
own idiosyncratic hunting values and force my aesthetic preferences on another hunter. I may choose to employ my full powers of aesthetic suasion to convert either or both hunters over to my way of thinking, but that's as far as my legitimate authority in either hunter's affairs should extend. In other words, as a matter of concern for social or governmental intrusion, hunting should be virtually "off the radar screen" for the moral or aesthetic police.

And as a group, hunters are their own worst enemy when it comes to pointing fingers at each other and saying, "My way is better than your way; so let's ban your way." Such arguments are often made by hunters who profess to wanting simply "to clean up hunting's image." In reality, such well-intended efforts by hunters may simply be hastening hunting's demise.



James A. Tantillo teaches ethics and environmental philosophy at Cornell University. A grouse hunting purist, Jim will generally argue until he is blue in the face that the One, True, Correct Way to Hunt Grouse is with a 16 gauge Parker double gun over the staunch point of a well trained English setter. In the spirit of political toleration, however, he also argues until he is equally blue in the face that his retriever and spaniel owning friends be permitted to hunt grouse legally as they see fit, despite their aesthetically misguided preferences for flushing dogs or 12 gauge autoloaders!
 
"And as a group, hunters are their own worst enemy when it comes to pointing fingers at each other and saying, "My way is better than your way; so let's ban your way." Such arguments are often made by hunters who profess to wanting simply "to clean up hunting's image." In reality, such well-intended efforts by hunters may simply be hastening hunting's demise."

WRONG-
The greed and laziness of the act of baiting or high fence hunts portrays all hunters in a bad light and garners more supporters of anti-hunting even without other hunters input.
How many people know others that do not hunt that have no problem with actual hunters but get appalled by seeing the baiting and high fence practices? (I know that I know a lot of them).
Instead of hunting with the animal in its natural environment they see a pet animal being blasted by those that are way too lazy to hunt or too greedy to even think they need to compete with others for the same animal.
No matter how warm and fuzzy you want to try and smooth things over by pointing out it's hunter vs hunter that will end hunting...Deep down you know the real reason you have been pointed out.
Those that actually hunt and others that do not know the difference and can see laziness and greed when they see it.

Hey you can spin things however you want but it does not change the fact you cheated and domesticated an animal. No different than raising cows and pigs except your stealing wild game and taking them from true sportsmen and conditioning them to stay on your property or space on the hill.
Selfishness/Laziness and Greed is all it is no matter what way you turn the mirror.
Look at yourself closely...You either see a hunter or a farmer trying to act like a hunter.
The difference is real hunters do not steal wildlife from others and everyone has an equal chance.
My 2-cents and I am done since I know the circus is coming.
Best,
Jerry
 
Whatever circus is coming is just catching up with the ringmaster. That post really shows how absolutely out of touch with reality and bat crap crazy you are. You have obviously missed the point that the author was making. Second you don't understand that the high fence hunting is not an ethical question. You are in fact a speciest like your buddy wileywapiti and all the other anti-hunters on this site. You actually believe that a deer or an elk is somehow morally superior to all other beasts and therefore must be put on some form of social pedestal that no one but people who model themselves after your beliefs are allowed to approach. A deer is no better than a cow and if some dude gets his kicks out of shooting them with a chain around their neck I could give a damn. His methods of gratification are his problems. If you are dumb enough to think that when high fence hunting goes away somehow hunting's PR issues with anti-hunters are going to get easier there isn't a twelve step program that will help you.
 
Good read.

TRUE anti-hunters do not concern themselves with "high fence" or "fair chase" or "baiting" issues or any of the other stuff. They only use that as an excuse to demean hunting and hunters. The fact that a human kills a wild animal is what drives their hatred. There is NOTHING we can do to please them short of outlawing all hunting, so don't judge each other for that reason.

Eel
 
+1 eelgrass.

Anti-hunters do NOT care what type of hunting it is. They want to ban ALL types of hunting.
 
Ethics are personal. Don't force yours on me and I won't try to force mine on you. What's the difference between killing a cow to eat or killing an elk on a game farm to eat?? Each to his own, I say.

I might also add that most anti-hunters are also against any type of animal usage by humans. Most of society sees them for what they are.

My personal code of ethics tells them to go suck eggs.
 
"A deer is no better than a cow"

An animal put on the earth by God IS better than a hormone altered slab of meat that has had the brains bred right out of him by the hand of man. I hate to break it to you but God's creations are just a touch greater than man's. I feel bad for any man that feels otherwise. .
 
"An animal put on the earth by God IS better than a hormone altered slab of meat that has had the brains bred right out of him by the hand of man. I hate to break it to you but God's creations are just a touch greater than man's. I feel bad for any man that feels otherwise. ."


I feel bad for any man that thinks he can make a cow. Don't lose sight of God's role in your life right down to the food on your plate and the dirt beneath your feet.
 
One last point-

Arizona in 2013 banned baiting of animals after concerns from other sportsmen (not anti-hunters) got fed up.
They were tired of seeing wild animals become habituated mostly by high profile guide services baiting Coues deer and other animals from public to private lands..
Unlike cows and livestock these sportsmen realized a select group was laying claim to the (wild) animals for there own financial gain and taking them away from all to have the same opportunity.
Last I knew Arizona still had a hunting season this year and now all hunters have to play by the same rules.

This does not even address the issue of spreading contagious diseases by confining wildlife to a small area.
Do some research on baiting and on high fence operations in states where it is prolific.....How many animals have died because of the hands of that self proclaimed naturalist that started baiting? How many real hunters had to find a new area to hunt?
Read up on the articles where many animals are killed and only the rack taken due to concerns of illness or drugs used to induce those antlers to grow. May open your eyes...Talk about a waste.

If a professed "hunter": a person who "hunts game" or other "wild animals" for food or in sport. 2. (a person who searches for or seeks something):
cannot see the difference between a cow and a wild animal then you have lost the meaning entirely of what it is all about.
 
"One last point-

Arizona in 2013 banned baiting of animals after concerns from other sportsmen (not anti-hunters) got fed up.
They were tired of seeing wild animals become habituated mostly by high profile guide services baiting Coues deer and other animals from public to private lands..
Unlike cows and livestock these sportsmen realized a select group was laying claim to the (wild) animals for there own financial gain and taking them away from all to have the same opportunity.
Last I knew Arizona still had a hunting season this year and now all hunters have to play by the same rules."

SO it was an issue of class warfare and selfishness justified by self righteousness. You didn't like getting beat by someone else so you through a tantrum and legislated against them. Don't doll it up for what it wasn't.

"This does not even address the issue of spreading contagious diseases by confining wildlife to a small area.
Do some research on baiting and on high fence operations in states where it is prolific.....How many animals have died because of the hands of that self proclaimed naturalist that started baiting? How many real hunters had to find a new area to hunt?
Read up on the articles where many animals are killed and only the rack taken due to concerns of illness or drugs used to induce those antlers to grow. May open your eyes...Talk about a waste."

WHy don't you read up and see that those states with legal baiting and feeding have more deer than you can dream of. That's no bull. Quit reading propaganda and get of your butt and go visit a place that feeds wildlife. I guarantee they have more wildlife than their public property counterparts where there is no feeding.

"If a professed "hunter": a person who "hunts game" or other "wild animals" for food or in sport. 2. (a person who searches for or seeks something):
cannot see the difference between a cow and a wild animal then you have lost the meaning entirely of what it is all about."

No sir you have missed the point of what it is all about. You have totally lost sight of making a hunt what you want and leaving other people to be free to make hunting what they want. Not a bunch of ruled over subjects hating and judging each other under a constant eye of greed and competition and self righteousness. Those people that we descended from didn't worry about "fairness" or rules or what the next guy was doing. It was about get the blessing of meat any which way you can and be thankful for another tomorrow. All those men shot as many deer and buffalo as they could carry, on winter ranges, over bait, under a lantern, with traps and snares and nets. Quit this idealistic bull that you have dreamed up in your head of what hunting is. Hunting was here before you and me and it will be here after you and me and I guarantee it was different fifty years ago and it will be different fifty years from now. Just go hunting and quit thinking how other men hunt decides how happy you will be when you hunt. It really is childish.
 
Tri, you my friend, are a master of the "grey area" in life. There is no black and white with you.

It doesn't surprise me that you'd support the practice of lining deer up and smacking them in the head with a ball-pein hammer. Just as long as they buy a tag right? To the highest bidder of course. Because who are we to tell a guy what's ethical when it comes to deer? They are just free range cows with antler.
 
Ranched and high fence is the future unfortunatly, when the last deer is shot is will be privatly owned. New Zealand and Africa employ the fence most of the time. I have done it and had a very good time, took it for what it was. I was not my favorite thing. Planted pheasents and quail are fun too. What ever floats your boat!
 
The author of the original diatribe has taken a lazy approach to the subject, and selected examples that blur the lines between ethics and aesthetics. It isn't all about baiting, shooting ducks on the water, or bow vs crosbow.
And it does matter to any true hunter how an animal is killed. Otherwise Claymore mines, set traps and other methods of killing animals that do not involve the sportsmen would be considered part of hunting as well. Quite rightly, they are NOT hunting.

The original author may be correct that many hunters are quick to impugn the techniques and methods of others, particularly in other regions, without understanding the history, tradition, and skill involved in varied forms of hunting. Ignorance IS bliss for many. But these are not purely aesthetic concerns. Hunting over or camping next to the only water source within miles may be both unethical and illegal in area like Arizona or parts of Africa, but in much of America with relatively abundant water sources it makes little difference.

Trying to fit all these examples into one neat tidy little excuse for not bashing other hunters does everyone a disservice. Some practices that result in a dead animal (mines?) are clearly unethical in every circumstance I can imagine, but I'm sure TriState will tell us it is still a dead animal, so what is the difference? If you can't tell, then you probably aren't a hunter.
Bill
 
Who cares if the guy is a hunter. What difference does that make to your hunt? How does someone else killing a deer with a landmine decide how much you enjoy hunting. Answer that llamapacker. I am not telling you that you have to call him a hunter, and I am not telling you that he is just as good a hunter as you and your fragile ego. I am saying let him do what he wants to kill his beast. As long as he doesn't threaten public safety I could give a flip. I couldn't care less if he thinks it makes him better than me. I HUNT FOR ME. I don't do it to compete with other people. I don't do it for bragging rights. I do it because it is part of my soul. No man and his land mines or deer feeder or high fence or waterhole can take that from me. The fact that you feel threatened by that I think says something about your character.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-09-13 AT 11:50AM (MST)[p]>Who cares if the guy is
>a hunter. What difference
>does that make to your
>hunt? How does someone
>else killing a deer with
>a landmine decide how much
>you enjoy hunting. Answer
>that llamapacker. I am
>not telling you that you
>have to call him a
>hunter, and I am not
>telling you that he is
>just as good a hunter
>as you and your fragile
>ego. I am saying
>let him do what he
>wants to kill his beast.
> As long as he
>doesn't threaten public safety I
>could give a flip.
>I couldn't care less if
>he thinks it makes him
>better than me. I
>HUNT FOR ME. I don't
>do it to compete with
>other people. I don't
>do it for bragging rights.
>I do it because it
>is part of my soul.
> No man and his
>land mines or deer feeder
>or high fence or waterhole
>can take that from me.
> The fact that you
>feel threatened by that I
>think says something about

((your character))TRI- (Your King of The MasterBaiters)Congrats.
1669clown20on20computer.jpg
 
Everyone has their "leanings" and we're seeing examples of it in this thread.

It matters to ME how MY animal is killed but I really don't care if a guy shoots a duck on the water or a deer in a pen or runs them with a dog. Why do we find it so rewarding to watch a dog work a bird but so repulsive if it runs deer?

I don't have all the answers but I do know this: I only desire to hunt free-range deer (any animal) but if a guy wants to shoot one in a "pen" then I really don't care. Just don't call it hunting because it's not, it's shooting Livestock which is "owned" and raised by someone to be killed... for profit.

The thrill to me is in the chase, where my intended game can easily escape not one which will return to the exact spot tomorrow should I mess up the chance today.

Hunting has certainly evolved into a much more politial sport than it was even 40 years ago. I don't like it but it's unlikely to reverse course.

I suppose we all need to chart our own course and decide what direction we'll travel. I, for one, will continue to have reverent respect for the animals I hunt and work to ensure we don't ever lose "fair chase".

Zeke
 

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