Game Warden Shoots/Kills Hunter

State Bureau of Investigation is conducting the investigation. It is an interesing case, I look forward to see how the facts unfold. Just as in ol Claude's case, the truth will come out. I do hope for the wardens sake it was a justified shooting, if not then lookout.

Long Live The Modena Ghost.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-09 AT 02:11PM (MST)[p]Getting shot and killed on your own property by an agent of the government.

Isn't that special...

http://www.myfox8.com/wghp-vid-hunter-killed-090412,0,5565768.worldnowvideo


Kyle
"If it moves shoot it again"

goa_ban1.png
 
I think the game warden may be screwed on this one.

Killing the guy on his own property.

I don't know how it is in other places, but I know here, unless the warden has observed a law being broken or has a credible tip a law has been broken, it is trespassing for the warden to enter private property uninvited.

The state will probably clear him though to save it's butt, and the family will have to file a civil suit to get justice.
 
I know its not as bad as this, but something in this line happened to me. My brother and I were fishing, and two Game Wardens came to check our licenses. Well I left my wallet in the truck and asked if I could go grab it. One of them said yes, but I'll escort you. As soon as we started walking, he put his hand on his pistol and said, if you don't make any aggresive moves, I won't have to use this. I looked at him and laughed, and he threatened to arrest me! He must have been scared, being he was about five four if he was lucky, but that was no reason to threaten me with his gun. You don't know how bad I wanted to whoop his little a**. People get in the line of law enforcement and take the power to their heads and think they can get away with anything.
 
Not sure but i've always been told that a Game Warden needs no warrant. If he suspects a violation, he can walk right in your house and open your freezer. Not saying this is correct from a number of points but that's how it is, i believe it's the law.

Also, if he observes or hears about a possible game violation, why not ask about it even if it's your own property. Private property in now way exempts a person from obeying the fish and game laws. I think some here are too quick to defend the guy shot yet throw the Warden to the wolves.

I too will be interested how this plays out!

Joey
 
This was posted on another site, I can not say what part or if its true and it really does not say a lot.

Here is what I was told by a warden ,Minton and another warden where out doing there thing,they were going to check out the farm on cane creek.Minton knew the land so he went.He came across Coffee setting in a tree stand hunting turkey over bait.He told Coffee to come down and he would not.So they fussed for about 15 min and Coffee was telling Minton that it was his land and he could do what ever where ever and if he did not leave he would shot him.Minton ordered him down the tree and Coffee said if I come down and if you are still here I will kill you.Coffee 76 years old came down the tree by using a ROPE Ladder.Went he got to the ground,Minton had take cover and was radioing for back up and moments he was call for EMS and was doing CRP....
That I know no details of what happened between the first call and the last,that is info only for the SBI and the warden that told he would not say anything about it.I do know that Minton has been in law enforcement for 12 years and has been in trouble before for being hot headed.I think that he could of went back to the road and waited for Coffee and his son and two grandsons to come out and that would of given time for back up to get there and no one would have been killed.
 
SEE THAT stinky???

I DON'T THINK BAITING BUZZARDS IS A GOOD IDEA???



"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
DON'T KNOW IF THE ABOVE RUMOR IS TRUE???

BUT IF YOU THREATEN/TELL A LAW OFFICER YOU'RE GONNA SHOOT HIM IT'S GONNA MAKE HIM VERY NERVOUS!!!

THERES A BUNCH OF GOOFY BASTARDS AROUND & I'M GLAD I'M NOT GUYS LIKE 1911 DEALIN WITH THEM EVERY DAY!!!

LETS HEAR THE REAL STORY BEFORE WE START GUESSING!!!

RATHER IT WAS HIS PROPERTY OR NOT THAT DON'T GIVE HIM THE RIGHT TO BREAK LAWS!!!







"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-09 AT 06:04PM (MST)[p]The last time I was approached by Fish & Game (Federal U.S. Fish & Wildlife Agents) I was a little nervous myself. One agent hesitantly approached while the other stayed back a 100 yrds or so at his rig. They looked nervous which made me nervous.

It seems they didn't like the Gadsden Flag I was flying over my camp or my black lab named Claude Dallas who greeted them.

By the way - I 'bait my blind/tree stand all the time. I get bored.

Live Free or Die - NevadaBadger
 
bogey,
what site was that on? That is pretty much the same story being told around here.

I don't want to be too quick to judge until we know some facts.

It is a very sad situation, I will be very interested to see what happens next too.


____________________________________________________________________
"You can recover from a tough hunt, you can't recover from quitting" - Cameron R. Hanes
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-09 AT 09:00PM (MST)[p]I have a hard time understanding the judgement or reasoning that some of you people have. Some of you have convicted the warden without having the facts of the case, I wonder if you would think this way if the system judge you by your own standards.
Others seem to think that a LEO should not shoot anyone until he has been shot at by the other person.
I have news for you, if you are armed and make a verbal threat to kill a LEO, or any person for that matter, that in itself is justication for that LEO to draw his weapon. If you make any movement what so ever that makes it seem you are going to carry your threat out. That LEO has justification to use deadly force.
I like the comment that one person made about the warden should have walked away and got the suspect later after he came down, Yea! turn your back on a person who is armed and just threaten to shoot you, that is very good common sense that only a idiot would use if he valued his life.

RELH
 
I don't know any of the facts other than what bogey put in his post. But, if any armed man whether he is 76 or 16 years old, on private property or public, threatens to shoot an LEO and makes some move to lead the officer to believe he is in danger, the armed man should not be supprised when he gets shot.

Speculating on what the officer could have done or should have don to make it turn out different is jut that, speculation with no basis in fact. Wait for the investigation to be done and then discuss the facts, not opinions.
 
once you have told a LEO that you're going to kill him and you have a gun on you, You just picked up a shovel and started to dig your own grave.You only have one witness to the shooting and one dead guy. I have my doubts if the Game warden is going to get much trouble over this if he made the calls for backup shows he was worried about what the guy was going to do.

The day you could tell some-one that you going to kill them is long time over, people now believe, that you just might do what you claim you're going to do and shot first.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
76 year old guy. On his own place, shot by LEO while hunting turkey.

My thought is, probably not a good situation for anyone.

What ever happened, I wish it could have not ended this way.

I think game warden might be the most difficult job with the least pay in all of law inforcement.

I do my best to be as nice as possible. They have a hard job.
 
This will be a perfect example of a "lose lose" situation.

All the dead guys friends and family will insist that he "never could do such a thing".

All of the Wardens friends, family and co-workers, will insist that it would never have gone this far if he wasn't in fear for his life. Living with the fact that you had to use deadly force over a turkey, would be hard to live with.

Glad it ain't me on either end of THIS story.

My only question is, what kind of retard would actually threaten to shoot someone that you know is armed?
 
'My only question is, what kind of retard would actually threaten to shoot someone that you know is armed?'

Your answer may be found in a select few of the above threads.


498a6f395e505405.jpg
 
I guess in my earlier post, I wrote before knowing all the facts of the case. If the guy did threaten the warden, he was definitely in the wrong.

The laws may be different there regarding trespassing, but I know the warden here pretty well, and he has told me he is unable to enter private land unless he witnesses a violation, or has a credible tip of a violation. Even if the guy is in a tree stand over corn, he still has not broken the law unless he has shot a turkey from that location. He could be in his tree stand, on his own land, hunting coyotes for all the warden knew. Unless the guy had already shot a turkey, the warden is essentially trespassing. If he suspected the guy, he should have waited until the guy shot a bird, and then called in the cavalry to arrest him.

It is a lose, lose for both sides. I think both sides are potentially at fault.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-09 AT 12:09PM (MST)[p]Even if the guy did threaten the officer, the officer should have backed out and reevaluated the situation & called in the professionals who are properly trained to deal with this kind of situation. No man deserves to die on his own land over a turkey bait pile. It sounds to me that this Barney Fife wildlife officer escalated the situation.



Justin Richins
R&K Hunting Company Inc.
www.thehuntingcompany.com
 
I am not sure what people wanted the CO to do. Who would the professional be for a hunting violation? Should police now let the offender decide when they will allow themselves to be arrested? This is not a good situation anyway it is looked at. All of the facts are not out on this case. What has been reported is that the guy was in the process of illegally hunting. Should the CO have let him continue illegally hunting? I am not for a CO shooting a 76 year old man but if (as has been reported) the man threatened the CO then the CO's hand might have been forced.

There is another thread where people are up in arms about a poaching incident on the Vernon. How many people would have liked the CO on the Vernon unit to walk away from the poacher on that unit because the guy did not want to be arrested while he was poaching? There was another thread (some time ago on the Montana form) where a CO was involved in a sheep hunting sting operation. People were upset on that thread because the CO did not take action before the sheep was killed. Hindsight is 2020, but to me, it seems as if too many people are upset when a CO does his/her job and then again upset because he does not do his/her job.

Just my .02.
 
this is copied from a post at the link bogey provided..

NEW TWIST.........See if you think of the warden now.

A witness to the shooting was a 10 year old grandson.
This is what is beening said by a friend of a family member who is there pastor...
The boy was going to see what the yelling was about,he was about 50 yards away and told the SBI.The game warden was pointing a gun at grandpaw tring to get him to come down the tree,he was tring to climb down and he kept saying,ok,ok clam down I'm trying..the warden kept saying drop your gun,old man kept saying I can't,I can't,Went he got on the ground he shot.Walk up and looked at him and started talk on a radio...
The old man never droped the gun like the warden ask...it was tied to his wrist with a shoe string!!!

IMO:the warden just wanted to show who was boss and took it to the limit.The same warden was in trouble 2 years ago for pull a old man out of the truck.VIA...the window because he was spot lighting,he and his wife we driven on there land looking for there dog.Hit the man a few times with a flash light and put the cuffs on his wife.
 
Runamuk;

Like I said above, I wonder if you would feel that same way if the justice system judged you and your actions as you have done here by making that statement, "IMO the warden just wanted to show who was boss and took it to the limit".
I guess you have never been present at a shooting scene and saw firsthand how a family member will lie at times in order to protect another family member or just out of plain anger and wanting revenge on the person who hurt their family member.
I have been there several times and because of the lies I have seen first hand, I have a strong adversion to taking the word of a family member in cases like these.
I would have preferred a witness who has no axe to grind with either party that was involved.
So in the future, if the justice system finds you guilty of something that you knew was a wrong decision, just remember that someone judged you as you have judge others in your opinion.

RELH
 
Utah400Elk wrote:

"I am not sure what people wanted the CO to do. Who would the professional be for a hunting violation? Should police now let the offender decide when they will allow themselves to be arrested? This is not a good situation anyway it is looked at. All of the facts are not out on this case. What has been reported is that the guy was in the process of illegally hunting. Should the CO have let him continue illegally hunting? I am not for a CO shooting a 76 year old man but if (as has been reported) the man threatened the CO then the CO's hand might have been forced. "

The point is, the man had not broken a law he could be prosecuted for yet. If he had already shot a turkey, then it's a different story. If no bird and been killed, and it came to court, all the man would have had to say is he was hunting coyotes on his own land.(although he probably wasn't) If coyote season was open, there would be no case against him. As it stands, it looks like the CO was basically trespassing and noticed the bait pile and decided to throw his weight around.

The fourth amendment (search and seizure) is in place to prevent stuff like this from happening
 
I just took a concealed handguns class this weekend and this does not sound good for the officer. One thing is before using deadly force can this confrontation be avoided. Heck yes leave and catch the old man at the house in the afternoon with backup. You already have evidence against him. Go home and build the case. Letting the situation get out of hand with a 76 year old man is rediculous.
 
I think most of Bogey's story is what happened according to the stories I'm hearing. I'm actually near that area turkey hunting this week. I don't think Minton has been in trouble before though. That was another CPO that was in trouble a few years ago in the same area.

I believe Coffee pointed the gun at Minton once he got out of the tree and that Minton was acting on a baiting tip they had received. Is all of that is true I think Minton is justified, but it's still a shame that his grandson(s) were watching if that portion of the story is true.
 
ohiohntr:

Do you think the CO should allow someone to break more laws before he/she steps in? According to the facts that have been reported so far, the guy was turkey hunting over bait. That is a violation and a person can be arrested for that crime. The guy hunting over bait does not have to complete the deal (i.e. kill a bird). If there was evidence of the crime of hunting over bait, then the CO would be required to take action. Again I will ask the question, should we now allow criminals/poachers to decide when they will allow themselves to be arrested?
 
> Even if the guy
>is in a tree stand
>over corn, he still
>has not broken the law
>unless he has shot a
>turkey from that location.

That's not true at least in NC. If you are turkey hunting (have turkey calls, decoys, etc. ) and you're near a bait pile prepare for a ticket even if you don't know it's there.


huntinco - in NC CPO's are trained professionals who can handle these kinds of situations.

runamuk - That's just pure speculation and rumor. I wouldn't put alot of worth in it until the official investigation is out. These hand me down stories tend to develop a life of their own.
 
RELH did you happen to see the top of my post???
the part about how i copied this from another web site..
I made no statement at all,, And i have not judged no one at all..
 
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD IT!!!

LET ME CHILL A 6 PACK OF DEW!!!

WHEN I GET BACK FROM HUNTIN THIS EVENIN I'LL BE TRYIN TO KEEP IT FROM SPEWIN ON THE CAPS-BOARD!!!

SAME OLD CRAP EVERYTIME!!!

1/2 THE TARDS BLAMING THE WARDEN!!!

1/2 THE TARDS BLAMING THE HUNTER!!!

WHEN THERE AIN'T ONE OF US ON HERE THAT KNOW THE FACTS!!!

JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!!!

"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
The question is is how did the game warden discover this. It sounds like he may have trespassed without a warrant. Any other situation like this in criminal cases, the evidence wouldn't be allowed in court. Again, it comes down to the proof to prosecute as well. All the guy would have to say is "I was coyote hunting on my own land and the CO came trespassing onto my place and arrested me." Unless there was a dead bird laying there, what other "proof" does the CO have? Game calls in a bag? I carry deer, coyote and turkey calls in my hunting bag year round.

That is why I've seen or heard about game wardens often "watching" criminals or poachers in the act, and letting them kill an animal first. They then have an iron clad case.

As it stands now, you have a game warden possibly trespassing shooting a guy on his own land.

It is hard to judge without all the facts, but If the "grandson's" version of events is true, it sounds like the warden is probably trying to embellish his story all he can to cover his butt.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-09 AT 04:21PM (MST)[p]Mr Krabs is right,
In NC if you are hunting on or near bait your violating the law.
You don't have to first shoot a turkey to get a ticket.

Another rumor I heard from a co-worker whose wife is some distant relative of Coffee is that he had just received some really, really bad news about his health.

____________________________________________________________________
"You can recover from a tough hunt, you can't recover from quitting" - Cameron R. Hanes
 
Huntinco, If he's not qualified to handle the situation he probably shouldn't be in that line of work. If it's true that he was making threats to kill or harm someone the last thing the Officer is going to do is leave this guy behind and hope he don't make good on his promise.

It seems to me that people on this site either support law enforcement and what they do or they have an axe to grind with them. So calling him a Barney Fife with the limited info you have gained through hearsay and the media what is it Justin?
 
Alrighty kids,

Let the kangaroo court proceed...

Don't tread on me - NevadaBadger
 
Huntinco:

Quick question for you. If you saw a guy on one of your leases, during elk season with a rifle and he was not one of your paying clients, would you be "ok" with a CO just talking with him? What would you say if the CO told you the guy said he did not want to get arrested today? Then the CO told you he did not want to push the situation and that he was going to go get a professional and would send him a summons later. Would you let that fly? I don't think so.
 
Runamuk;

Then why post it, all you are doing is adding to the rumor mill without facts to back it up. The next guy down the line will read it and swear to it being the gospel when he tells the story to someone else.
That is how riots get started in urban areas over someone shooting a member of a minorty group.
Now you know why I have a lack of trust in a lot of members of our society, like you, they come in with pre-conceived ideas before they hear the facts. Before you argue this, you know as well as I do, that you had pre-conceived feelings about the actions of the LEO or you would not have posted that rumor.

RELH
 
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-09
>AT 04:21?PM (MST)
>
>Mr Krabs is right,
>In NC if you are hunting
>on or near bait your
>violating the law.
>You don't have to first shoot
>a turkey to get a
>ticket.
>


The north Carolina regs state:

It is unlawful to:

TAKE wild turkeys from an area in which bait has been placed.

That is all it says about the baiting.

It does not state it is unlawful to be on your own land over a bait pile.

Unless he had already shot a bird, he did nothing wrong according to the regs, and the CO would have nothing concrete to prosecute with.

As I said, he could be Coyote hunting for which there is no closed season and is legal to hunt over bait.
 
>The north Carolina regs state:
>
>It is unlawful to:
>
>TAKE wild turkeys from an area
>in which bait has been
>placed.
>
>That is all it says about
>the baiting.
>


In Arizona "take" is defined as the act of hunting whether results in harvest or not.
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-09
>>AT 04:21?PM (MST)
>>
>>Mr Krabs is right,
>>In NC if you are hunting
>>on or near bait your
>>violating the law.
>>You don't have to first shoot
>>a turkey to get a
>>ticket.
>>
>
>
>The north Carolina regs state:
>
>It is unlawful to:
>
>TAKE wild turkeys from an area
>in which bait has been
>placed.
>
>That is all it says about
>the baiting.
>
>It does not state it is
>unlawful to be on your
>own land over a bait
>pile.
>
>Unless he had already shot a
>bird, he did nothing
>wrong according to the regs,
>and the CO would have
>nothing concrete to prosecute with.
>
>
>As I said, he could be
>Coyote hunting for which there
>is no closed season and
>is legal to hunt over
>bait.


From the NC Regs-Definition of TAKE:
To take is defined as all operations during, immediately preparatory and immediately subsequent to an attempt, whether successful or not, to capture, kill, pursue, hunt, or otherwise harm or reduce to possession any fisheries resource or wildlife resource.

I live in NC, there are countless violations written every turkey season for hunting turkeys over bait. Most times someone reports seeing a hunter carrying corn or scratch into a hunting area, the warden goes and finds the bait, then goes back and waits to catch the hunter at the bait and he's BUSTED!

I definitely don't think the guy deserved to get shot for hunting over bait but we don't know what happened when the warden confronted him. Until we know some concrete facts its hard to blame the warden or the hunter and there is still no information being released by any authorities.

____________________________________________________________________
"You can recover from a tough hunt, you can't recover from quitting" - Cameron R. Hanes
 
Some don't know that the job of up holding the law means just that, not walking away because things just got tough.
Could you sees a cop pulling up to a house and the robber with the residents still in the house calling out "I have a gun and I will use it" and the cop saying I have to leave right now we will catch him later after he leaves his gun At home next time.

Could it been handled different I'm sure in hindsight the whole thing could turned out different it both guys would did one or two things different.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
This is all speculation at this point, but IF, IF, IF it happened this way......

"Minton ordered him down the tree and Coffee said if I come down and if you are still here I will kill you.Coffee 76 years old came down the tree by using a ROPE Ladder.Went he got to the ground,Minton had take cover and was radioing for back up and moments he was call for EMS and was doing CRP...."

The warden did OK in my book. But I probably wouldn't make a very good GW. Given the same senario, I would either disarm him as he came down the rope ladder or back out as he came down. I would get backup and later wait for him to come out. You can then confront him and cite him for whatever. Or even kill him at that point if necessary. I at least want a witness.

It's not like he's a murderer or a rapist and a danger to society. That's different.

I'm not condeming the warden. I just would try to avoid, at all cost, killing someones husband, father, and grandpa over a stupid turkey. But like I said, I probably would get fired as a game warden.

Eel

49d778ac3681054a.jpg
 
+1 eel
____________________________________________________________________
"You can recover from a tough hunt, you can't recover from quitting" - Cameron R. Hanes
 
If I were the Warden, I would have pulled out my Dillon/Alero .308 gattling gun from behind my back and mowed down his tree. Then I'd spray the bushes in a 360 degree circle, just in case the old man had some backup. I'd mow down everything in sight.
Just Sh**tin, I have no idea what I would do in the warden's shoes. It'll be interesting to find out the facts.

Oh, uh, by the way, I really don't own a Dillon/Alero. I just made that up.
 
i have this gut feeling that once the actual facts come out it will not match anything that has been posted so far. Law enforcment tends to keep things under the cuff till everything is really known. Rumors cruz around the internet. Just like all the bear attack stories you see with the same pictures but totally different stories, or that monster buck shot in 6 different states.
 
I'm with eel as well, there's no wildlife violation on the face of this earth worth killing someone over. I don't give a sh%t if he had killed every last turkey or deer on the face of the earth. As far as the old man threating him on the other hand I don't know but you think he could have disarmed an 78 year old man with out the use of lethal force. but then again you never know until your in the situation.
 
Excuse me but if i'm a Fish & Game Cop out doing my job and i come across a potential violator and he first threatens to kill me then goes to point his weapon at me...either he's dust or i am, preferably him. In a case like that, to me, there is no grey area.

I'm not saying this is how it happened but as most agree, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. Some of you guys sound like the beginnings of a lynch mob. All you need is a strong leader and a rope.

Joey
 
>HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD IT!!!
>
>LET ME CHILL A 6 PACK
>OF DEW!!!
>
>WHEN I GET BACK FROM HUNTIN
>THIS EVENIN I'LL BE TRYIN
>TO KEEP IT FROM SPEWIN
>ON THE CAPS-BOARD!!!
>
>SAME OLD CRAP EVERYTIME!!!
>
>1/2 THE TARDS BLAMING THE WARDEN!!!
>
>
>1/2 THE TARDS BLAMING THE HUNTER!!!
>
>
>WHEN THERE AIN'T ONE OF US
>ON HERE THAT KNOW THE
>FACTS!!!
>
>JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!!!
>
>"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE
>WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU
>MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES
>THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU
>HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU
>FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS
>ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR
>OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA
>THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!
>
>
>
493c3bb236d04499.jpg

>
>REMEMBER!!!
>
>THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!




+1 Bobcat! He said she said. Lordy! It will all come out after the investigation is completed. Give the guy a break. Taking the word of a 10 year old.? Get the facts then decided.
 
Some of these comments are so unbelievable!!! No one knows what happened and won't know for some time. The officer shot and killed this person (I don't care if he/she is 6 or 100 they can kill you just as fast as a ? year old) the officer felt his life or someone elses life was endangered. He did not shoot and kill this person because he just felt like it, there WAS a reason.

I didn't know people are considered safe at certain ages? It only takes a split second and a few pounds to pull a trigger.

You do not have to wait for a person to point a gun at you in order for you to kill them. That would be to late for you.

You can NOT walk up to someone and disarm them when you feel they are a threat, this is not the movies. They HAVE a gun not a squirt gun. This is real life.

When you are by yourself and have no back-up, you do not leave cover to fight a person with a gun likewise you do not holster your gun when someone else has a gun, the use of force policy for LE is not to go hands on when the suspect has a firearm.

This guy was NOT shot and killed because of a game violation he was shot for some other reason.

LE does not cover things up and if the officer is at fault it WILL come out in the investigation, through an outside agency who will conduct the investigation.
 
About the comments being made about wanting to be arrested or not, in my opinion, if you are breaking the law, you should be arrested. However, police let criminals go to be caught at a later time every now and then during police chases. When a chase gets to dangerous they will simply back off until the danger is taken out of play and then they will make a move. To me, this would have seemed like a much better alternative to someone being killed over a turkey. Like stated before, it probably wouldn't have hurt anyone or anything by backing out of a bad situation until back up came or the tempers had calmed.
 
I dont think the person was killed over a Turkey... The officer must of had his life threatend...otherwise why would someone in law inforcement shoot someone????
 
Clearly, there are some devisive opinions and cynical comments regarding this incident.

Personaly, as an older guy around here, I think you all should back off this thing, use some common sense and understanding.

The movie will be out in a few months and we will all know the true facts.

Clint Eastwood will look good as a Redneck turkey hunter and Brad Pitt could be the Warden.
 
IF I'D OF BEEN THE WARDEN???

AND AFTER HE SAID HE WAS GONNA SHOOT ME!!!

I'D OF SAID:::

YOU SILLY OLE BASTARD!!!

YOU'D BETTER HURRY & SHOOT!!!

CUZZ I'VE GOT MY O66 STIHL MAGNUM FIRED UP & YOU ASS IS COMMIN DOWN!!!

A FEW OF YOU GUYS ARE RIGHT!!!

WE DON'T HAVE THE FACTS!!!

AND WE CAN'T LEGALLY TRY THE WARDEN HERE ON MM YET!!!

OH BUT I'LL BET COPPER BOY THINKS THE WARDEN IS GUILTY ALREADY!!!





"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

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REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
Big_DD;

I can see where you are coming from on this, but you have compared apples to oranges concerning the circumstances.
A lot of times police pursuits are terminated due to the pursuit becoming too dangerous to civilians that are using the roadway and the suspect has violated traffice laws. Just not worth the risk of killing civilians over.
The officer terminates the pursuit and the suspect is the one who has his back to the officer where the officer is not in any danger while disingaging from the pursuit.
A man in a tree stand with a shotgun in his hands is a totally different set of circumstances. After he refused the first command to come down and made threats to kill the officer, the officer has been placed into circumstances that almost prevents his retreat. He can not be expected to turn his back and try to walk away knowing he could be shot in the back. It is almost impossible in woods type terrain to walk backwards and not end up falling down which again puts him at the mercy of the guy in the tree stand who appears to have just made verbal threats of killing the office.
Another thing that a lot of persons on this site have not taken into consideration, due to lack of training and experience in LEO work, is that a elderly man is more likley to carry his threat though due to his mind set that he has lived a long life and has nothing to fear as much as a younger man does who has his whole life still ahead of him.
Also are we dealing with a man who may be in the first stages of dementia and will be likely to be more violent then he was ten years ago due to the mental illness. This is more common then you might think and most law enforcement is aware of it.
How many times have you read in the papers about a elderly man ambushing cops as they just walked up to his house in a normal manner. A lot of the time dementia played a role.
If half of what has been said about the incident is true, that LEO showed restraint in shooting the 76 year old man. That officer had the legal right to draw and aim his weapon at the suspect as soon as he made the first threat to shoot the officer. If the suspect made any move what so ever that can be interpeted as a threat, that officer had the right to open fire. In other words when he refused to drop the shotgun, after the threat to kill, he should have been shot right there. I am very surprised that we do not have a warden dead due to his reluctance to open fire sooner then he did.
This is not a matter of shooting a elderly man over a possible turkey baiting incident. As soon as that elderly man made his threat to kill, it was escalated into a very deadly confrontation with very little avenue of escape for either party.

RELH
 
I retired this past year after 35 yrs. as a Park Ranger. Our department had a deadly force policy. The thing that always stuck in my mind from the beginning: we had an "imminent peril of death" clause, whether it be our own or someone elses. To me there had to be a reason for not using pepper spray, baton or self-defense tactics; cover or concealment. No officer I knew of would want to consciously violate those policies.
 
NVPete, you make good points yet how about;

1 the guys up in a tree

2 he threatened to kill you

3 he then points his shotgun at you

so then, do you

A. throw your baton at him

B. see if the mace will reach that far

C. shoot his ass

if and i say again, IF it played out that way, i'm shooting his ass.

Joey
 
Some of you seem to be well trained in the art of Monday morning quarterbacking and total lack of respect for those who choose to wear the badge. You should thank the state for providing a service such as law enforcement, by reading the many thought processes above you surely need protection from eachother.

RELH said:
"I am very surprised that we do not have a warden dead due to his reluctance to open fire sooner then he did."

Me too!

Mike
 
This is not the first time on this site that more than half the comments are against the law enforcement officer. This is becoming a joke how everyone is so fast to find fault. Sometimes in law enforcement you have to make life or death decisions in a split second. Being a game officer even makes it more dangerous because 99% of the public you are approaching are armed. I'm sure this guy didn't wake up that day and decide to go kill himself a old man. 300mike you hit it on the head.
 
I fully understand where everyone is coming from, I was just simply stating that sometimes law enforcment does take a step back to prevent any more harm/violence to anyone. Like stated before, the LEO had to make a decision with the situation at hand, and as far as anyone knows, he was doing his job and unfortuantely in law enforcment this happens sometimes. Personally, I haven't made any judgement to either side in this case, I think time will tell who was right and wrong and that it sounds like a lose/lose situation for all involved.
 
Joey: The investigation will determine if that was the correct response. In all the news, etc. on the pirate killings, did you read that the talks had broken down and that the pirates (or at least one of them) had pointed his automatic weapon at the hostage, and someone made the correct decision (IMO) to use deadly force.And I'm sure this wasn't the only instance during the ordeal the captain or his crew were in danger of having their lives taken.
 
Fair enough Pete. All i'm saying is from your above post, looked to me as you were saying to me, from the post #'s, that the officer should have used his "options". Like you said, the investigation will tell the tune but under a proposed scenario as i described, i probably would have felt shooting was my only option and shot him too.

Many are critiquing this event. I understand we're just throwing in our $.02

Joey
 
Who heard the suspect tell the officer that he was going to shoot him? What we have here is he says and the only other witness is dead. If I was the officer thats what I would have said to save my sorry ass. Me thinks this officer should be done with law enforcement for good.
He lacks the judgement needed to be an officer.
Driftersifter
 
wait drifter what if the old man pointed the gun at the Game Warden after he said he was going to kill him???? If thats the situation then the Game Warden did the right thing... backing off when someone has threatend you with a gun and pointing the gun at you is a good way to get shot.
 
Driftersifter;

I have heard some very disturbing news and I would like to know if it is true.

Did you get arrested in 2005 for illegal poaching with a spotlight. Also what about that arrest for molesting a minor back in 2002. You know the one where you denied the allegations all the way to taking a plea bargain to avoid going to prison for a long stretch.
If this is true, I feel you should be done with on this forum and be serving time with the rest of the criminals

Now tell me, how does it feel to be slammed dunk with these statements that I have failed to back up with proof or facts like you just did with that warden.

some guys will figure that I am jerking your chain, but there will be some guys wondering if I have inside information on you due to my prior background and contacts.

I just love you outlaws who are big and brave while hiding behind your computer screen.

RELH
 
HEY DrifterSifter!!!

UP UNTIL NOW YOU HAD BEEN USING THAT PEA SIZED BRAIN OF YOURS!!!

IMMEDIATELY YOU'RE BLAMING/HANGING THE WARDEN,WTF???

EVEN THOUGH WE STILL DON'T HAVE THE FACTS???

YOU SAID:::

"He lacks the judgement needed to be an officer."

WTF???

YOU AIN'T GOT A CLUE TO WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED & NIETHER DO I!!!

AMAZING HOW MUCH THE MM JURY KNOWS & HOW QUICK THE MM JURY HANGS A GUY!!!

IF EITHER PARTY WAS THREATENED (AND BOTH PARTIES HAD GUNS!!!) THERES NEVER GONNA BE A GOOD OUTCOME!!!

SO TELL ME DrifterSifter???

ARE YOU ONE OF THESE JOKERS THAT THINK THE OFFICER SHOULD BE FIRED UPON BEFORE FIRING HIS OWN WEAPON,RIGHT???


"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
+10 with what Bess has said.

Just when I think I have seen and heard the absolute height of stupidity I come across a thread like this. If these comments are at all indicative of the level of intelligence of the posters, some of you don't belong in the field and are not fit to possess deadly weapons.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
Here are some things on my mind:

-Why wouldnt the officer wait until the suspect was unarmed in the first place? Watch the suspect from afar with binos and wait for a safe opportunity to approach the suspect.

-Why is a 76 year old man hunting turkeys from a tree stand? He's 76 and climbing into and out of a tree on a rope ladder? Shows his lack of judgement.

-Why does the suspect have a shotgun tied to his hand?

-Did the officer direct the suspect to lower his weapon out of the tree before climbing down from the tree? If the officer did do this and the suspect didn't comply, I'd figure the suspect would be falling out of the tree dead.

-Did the officer know that the gun was tied to the suspects hand? Why didn't the suspect say that?

-Was the suspects intention really to kill the officer when he got out of the tree? Does it really matter what his intent was? If he said it, wasn't his intent implied already?

-How far was the officer from the suspect when shots were fired? Was there cover further away that the officer could've used just in case he was fired upon?


Just some questions going through my head. None of these questions lead me to eithers guilt. Just some unanswered questions that I think would help to figure this out.

Steve
 
You people on hear that think the warden was in the wrong are probably a bunch of outlaws that can't follow the law if someone drew you a line!

Thank you to those that support LEO's! GOD BLESS THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT PUT THE BDGE ON EVERYDAY TO PROTECT AND SERVE!!!
 
Jackrussel, I think its because people want to condemn them for doing there job all the time. Why would you or anyone else assume his actions weren't justified with the little info you know.
 
I don't know what happened any more than anyone else does but it's absurd to think that whatever the "guy with the badge" did was right and whatever a law-abiding citizen did was wrong. There is great wisdom to hearing all the facts before making a decision.

This nation was founded (supposedly still is) as being "of the people, by the people and for the people". PEOPLE (you and I) are just as apt to be right as the people who wear a badge. If one looks at the statistics and reads, it becomes evident that "bad people" and bad choices occur with LOTS of different kinds of people...including the ones who wear badges.


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
Here's what I know. (1) I have been on enough calls, missions and incidents to know that the news and heresay reports almost always get the story wrong. (2) I have worked with enough LEOS to know that they are very human and that they run the gamut from complete power hubgry hot heads to near Ghandi like saints. They are representative of the population they serve. (3) I have also worked with enough of the public in an official capacity to know that any thing is possible and that there is always a surprise. Always.

I also know that I would rather rap out of a helicopter at night, be sling loaded into a mountain LZ, or do a one skid insertion on to the hood of a car in the middle of a flash flood than do the equivalent of a felony stop on an armed individual, in the middle of nowhere, by myself. Been there, done that and it will make even the coolest cat shake like a dog passing a peach seed.

My advice is that when approached by any LEO, regardless of where he falls on the above mentioned spectrum, follow all lawful commands or things will escalate and you will most likely be on the losing end. Keep in mind that you will eventually have the opportunity to explain, argue or file a complaint but you have to comply first so the Officer can make the situation safe and that means safe from his perspective first then yours.

The point is that it is way too early to say who was at fault here. If the cop was wrong then he deserves to have the book thrown at him. If the old man was at fault, well, he has already paid the ultimate price hasn't he.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
Safe from his perspective first...then mine. He's WRONG. It's equal. If not, he should move to an official police state!!


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
From my own personal experience it is more "legal" to take the life of another human here in AMERICA, than it is if you do the same in Iraq. Life, Limb, Eyesight or Great Bodily Harm including rape are the only justifications for deadly force. Neither turkeys nor any type of animal is listed. Really. A 76 year old man climbing DOWN a rope ladder is not a threat great enough to shoot. I have a Grandpa, and i am sure that he is neither agile or strong enough to be a Rambo, hold the weapon in one hand, point it at me, and climb down at the same time. I have hunted out of stands and every time I did, I lowered my BOW with a piece of rope to the ground. I am no electrician but if this guy was experienced enough, and with 76 years i hope he would be, he would do the same with a FIREARM. Did he shoot him while he was in the stand? If so then yeah, the man probably pointed the firearm at him. Was he on the ground when he was shot? if so why didnt the officer disarm him before the old man could offensively engage him? I am pretty sure there was time in there for that, but if this man could climb down the rope ladder point a gun and threaten the life of another human being at the age of 76, he is one bad dude. I hope the officer was justified in the shooting. I would really like to believe that one who was sworn in to protect us is one of good moral judgement, but something is not right. I want to be a Peace officer one of these days and i have the utmost respect for them but i do think they have a broader ROE than our Soldiers in Iraq do, and they are in a combat zone. It is just like our legal process right now: guilty until proven innocent. unfortunaltely our cops etc think they have the right to make that decision as if they were judge jury and executioner. They arent.
 
That is an absurd post full of generalizations and "ifs", hopefully you get your mind right before you become a law enforcement officer.

Again, why don't we agree that it is an unfortunate situation all the way around and wait for the results of the investigation before we render our opinions. Anythiing else at this point is speculation.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 

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