Go Bernie Sandets

P

piper

Long Time Member
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5,082
I haven't seen any of the debates, but I see clips of Bernie and he sure says it like it is. Cool, I guess part of America is waking up.

We have been taken for a ride on the rightwing express for too long and it looks as though some people are taking notice finally.
Speaking about prescription drugs, the greed based healthcare system. How in this incredibly Wealthy land, college costs are outrageous. Wall street wonders and other American wonders.

Nothing like living in the rightwing fantasy land. Lets see? Shall we sell the public land off so we can afford more rightwing have-have not deterioration? Good job rightwingers
 
Part of me hopes Bernie wins too. On day one he will add 150 new jobs in the money printing department.
 
>Part of me hopes Bernie wins
>too. On day one he
>will add 150 new jobs
>in the money printing department.
>

LMAOF !
 
Piper I have said it before that you are nothing but a socialist at heart wanting the Government to take care of you from cradle to death. You are no different then the black getto mother on welfare while her kids are selling dope on the street corner.

RELH
 
Actually no RELH, you my friend are a practicing socialist. Have you ever had any jobs besides working for the government? I never have.

But yes this country would thrive under Sanders, a counter to 30+ years of right wing disease. Where the once great America is now nothing exceptional at all.

I could have a nine thousand dollar a year pay raise alone if we had healthcare costs comparable to most of the world. There would be hundreds of billions of dollars circulating if we had that alone.

Bernie calls it like it is, and he isn't going to sell public land to promote more rightwing stuff.
 
No one's numbers work, people can't give a real analysis of what would happen, but there shouldn't be any doubt that the rightwing plan hasn't been very successful. You like complaining about baby boomers, well.maybe you should start to analyze where the money is and where it goes, and why the economy is stuck. All this despite incredible gains in technology and productivity, yet we are stuck.
 
I will never forget the rightwing as they portrayed Bill Clintons 1993 deficit reduction budget as the complete and total end of the world.

It's funny for some to look back at the rightwings antics, but it's not funny for millions that have suffered under their policies.
 
No Obama isn't nor was Bill Clinton. But reversing *rightwing policies and fantasies is no small task. Same as with the buildup of rightwing policies that has gone on for 35 years. Only slightly abated by Obama and Clinton.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-16 AT 02:32PM (MST)[p]Hmmmmmm...all reporting says the economy is chugging along quite strong...just ask azbullhunter...or check his posts
 
Piper,

Look around the world, even the most socialist countries are struggling. How do you know what the economy should be? It is way better here than almost anywhere in the world right now. There is a reason for the strong dollar and it is the demand for the greenback.

Nemont
 
So doing a service, LE, and being paid by the government is socialism piper. So basically you feel being in the armed service protecting this country being paid by the government is also socialism. You're a f'n idiot. Relh put his life on the line,saw things you only saw in your nightmares and you think he didn't deserve to be compensated for it. You coward what have you ever done besides ##### and whine? I bet your wife is a very disappointed woman.
 
The only things I'm sure RELH saw were spooks, Mexicans and doughnuts. at least that's all he seems to care about.


This country is and has been half socialist for years. so the concept should be seen as something new or scary. I'm just not convinced being more socialist is what's best . for me, at this time.
















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
He's Participated in Government Hand-Outs!

Makes Him Smarter than me I guess!

Does make you Understand Why He Loves Our Government so much though!










[font color="blue"]They Shot Him in the Back AKA 'LaVoyed Him'!
[/font]
 
Dude Loves to argue,so you can't hold that against him. Especially since he has to go to bed every night with Ms. 440 6 pack who can kick his azz. LOL Piper is a scrotum loving ******** idiot. Carry on..... I bet he is jealous of Soros donating 15 millionth defeat Trunp.
 
Dude you forgot Indians. That felon I chased and he ended up pointing a rifle at me and I shot him below his left nipple at 97 yards. With a Colt 1911 mind you, was a full blooded Maidu Indian. He was a deer poacher also of the first order. His own family member told me he would shoot 15-20 deer a year and sell the meat to other Indians and some of the local white trash.
You need to stop off in Eugene so I can show you that scalping knife I just finished. Beautiful knife if I say so myself.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-16 AT 10:49PM (MST)[p]That's kinda funny, if you don't like George Soros or his ilk why are you protecting his billions by supporting candidates who wish to continue giving him an IRS approved "special" tax rate of only 15%?

Meet the string pullers, politicians are just their puppets.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanv...chest-hedge-fund-billionaires-2/#7c9330d24b05

I digress or I've digressed. I'm going to do a little cherry picking here, in no particular order.

Nemont mentioned,"You may want to read what the numbers under Bernie actually would be and not just take his word for it. Lots of holes in his plan and tax hikes.

You know how to tell he is full of it, even Paul Krugman knows Bernie's numbers are bogus and won't work. So Obama is a right winger? That is news to everyone.

Look around the world, even the most socialist countries are struggling. How do you know what the economy should be? It is way better here than almost anywhere in the world right now. There is a reason for the strong dollar and it is the demand for the greenback."

Well...(looking down kicking at the dirt) ya know when the wind blows from one direction it get warm but then it almost always rains....

I've read the numbers, the critics of the numbers, the critics of the critics of the numbers, it will test an economic theory.

Krugman, not sure if he might be shilling for a SOT slot. Could there be or not be holes or theoretical shortfalls? Krugman like Saez hypothesize that Athletes, Actors, Hedge fund Managers, Corp. CEO's like the Koch Bros, so billionaires (more linked above) those that make $10 Million pay a higher Marginal Tax Rate...should I care?

So we repair Trickle Down Failure Economics, restore+ the tax code prior to the failed "Temporary" Bush Tax Cuts that only benefited the 1%, sounds like a good start to me. Which candidate is for all that stuff?

So on this one I say, really? I generally agree with Krugman, but he doesn't really know, it's an election year and Hillary is looking like she or the Donald might take it, so Krugman is being very select in his comments lately.

Bernie's UHC plan only accounts for 20% from higher revenues generated by bumping the "Marginal" rate for all of our multi-millionaire friends by 20 pts to support Single Pay.

There will still be a private market, private doctors and let us not make the jump from we have socialized medicine to we are now a self-identified Socialist state. That's a leap that is better suited for an out of control jet-pack, so far it would be difficult to draw a parallel to other "Socialist" nations simply because we adopt UHC over our current SHC.

We need change, we can't afford SHC and we both know it. Even under the modified 1993 Republican Response to the Clinton Universal Healthcare Act aka Obamacare it will be unsustainable given the stranglehold by Big Pharma, Insurer Costs, and continued Wall St. healthcare.

Tog has a great knack for bottom lining things and this is no different. But, and I maybe wrong but I believe you meant "shouldn't instead of "should"

Tog, "This country is and has been half socialist for years. So the concept should be seen as something new or scary"

I'm just not convinced being more socialist is what's best for me at this time."

I totally get that..
 
FTW,

Bernie goes WAY beyond just reverting to pre Bush tax cuts, in addition his Medicare for Everyone plan would require a couple of things. One would be to figure out how to bring the hospitals and docs on board to agree to getting medicare DRG's on every patient.

Medicare currently uses about have the care in the United States but pays about 30% of the bills. So by putting everyone on Medicare without commensurate benefits cuts to make it work all the brick and mortar infrastructure in the current system would crumble.

Also look at the current higher payments in rural areas for critical access hospitals, that would have to be be cut in order for Bernie to be a winner in that area.

The bigger question is what politician in the House or Senate is going to be willing to touch health care? About 1% of Bernie's rhetoric would ever get passed. That is a fact.

Whether or not we can afford the current Goat ##### we have for a Health Care system doesn't mean that by giving it to everyone it gets cheaper. We are way over invested in health care in this country and it is because of our current tax policies that has come about.

Does Bernie intend to take on the Unions who have huge sums in their health and welfare trusts? I bet not. So how do we exempt them? Does he really want to reshuffle 20% of the U.S. economy and watch as even upper middle class and middle class Americans lose employer paid health plans? There is a tremendous political price to pay if you start rearranging the deck chairs of the American health care system.

More socialism has not helped prop up other countries who are not experimenting with negative interest rates to prop up their cradle to grave social welfare systems.

None of that says the health care system doesn't need massive over hauls but when ever politicians get a hold of it they have to pay off their supporters and whether you think Bernie is a politician or not, he is and he isn't going to step on the Union's toes or other major progressive supporters who are invested in the current system.

It isn't what should be done it is what can get done. Bernie's plans are DOA even if the Democrats take back the Senate. There isn't a democrat senator licking their chops to take on health care again as the first thing to deal with.

Nemont
 
THE PLAN
BETTER COVERAGE
Bernie?s plan would create a federally administered single-payer health care program. Universal single-payer health care means comprehensive coverage for all Americans. Bernie?s plan will cover the entire continuum of health care, from inpatient to outpatient care; preventive to emergency care; primary care to specialty care, including long-term and palliative care; vision, hearing and oral health care; mental health and substance abuse services; as well as prescription medications, medical equipment, supplies, diagnostics and treatments. Patients will be able to choose a health care provider without worrying about whether that provider is in-network and will be able to get the care they need without having to read any fine print or trying to figure out how they can afford the out-of-pocket costs.



WHAT IT MEANS FOR PATIENTS
As a patient, all you need to do is go to the doctor and show your insurance card. Bernie?s plan means no more copays, no more deductibles and no more fighting with insurance companies when they fail to pay for charges.

He is going to cover, all care including nursing home stays, Dental and vision coverage all over services with no copay or deductible? Paid at 100%?

What cost controls are there for people who have no skin the game? Ask who uses more health care, people with low out pocket expenses or those on HSA plans with High deductible health plans?

Bernie claims many many pretty illusive sources of tax in order to pay for this plan. Including getting 100% of the money from the employer paid health insurance deduction. The only way that can be true is that every employer in America gives out pay increases equal to what they are currently paying for health insurance. How likely is that if the employers know that there is a government plan available for free to their employees?

Nemont
 
So many other countries do healthcare for much cheaper than us and with surprising good results. The thing you are missing in your equasion Nemont is the fact that capitalism needs competition in order to work for the majority, without that it's a very expensive proposition. And thats where we are, by it's very nature there is little to no competition to bring prices down, and the results are amazing, have you ever seen the price ranges for services between providers?

Its nothing short of shocking, like I said before,I could have a 9 thousand dollar a year pay raise if health Carr costs were similar to most other industrialized countries. Times that by millions and the economic boom would be incredible.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-16 AT 02:31PM (MST)[p]How many other countries had 65 years of the system we have built up? That is the rub Piper, it isn't that we can't have UHC, it is that we have built into our system politically powerful stake holders in the status quo on both sides.

Can you find a functioning system in the world that has zero out of pocket expense, that also has as much brick and mortar built up as our system?


It isn't that I believe we cannot have a great system with universal care but if you think the day Bernie would get this passed that the costs built in our system would just disappear? That isn't the reality and your $9,000 would be a dream.

My question is one that needs to be addressed. What do you do with the Billions and Billions invested in our over built system? Do you believe all those bond holders and bankers would just sit idly by as they take a big hair cut on Bernie Care? What about all the investment in rural areas where the population density doesn't support a 30% cut in revenue to the hospitals and doctors? How is that suddenly we can afford every Nursing home patient to be paid for by the government? Go look at what happened to the to the CLASS act part of the ACA.

Bernie's claims of a magic wand to wave and collect all these taxes he says he will pass doesn't explain how any of it gets through out political process. Then what do you do with the entrenched stake holders? It is difficult for me to believe that everyone will just fall in line behind Bernie.

Nemont
 

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