Good guys against HB 2072

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Just wanted to post this on the MM site.
Duwayne Adams and Steve Chappell have publicly denounced the bill. I think it is worth mentioning it here.
I have guided hunters in AZ and can say that these two are the real deal. In my opinion you cannot go wrong with hiring either one for a guided hunt here in AZ. There stance on the issue reveals who they are and how they operate.
I personally thank each of them.
JD Pepper
 
it is nice to see outfitters who could have benefitted financially from this bill who still stood up and said no........privatizing a public resource is a bad thing. thanks to Steve and Duwane. ................ Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
cut/paste from Steve Chappell's site:

About Us:

Regarding HB 2072 and SFW: We at Chappell Guide Service have always prided ourselves in guiding only individuals that have drawn their tags through the Arizona Game & Fish draw system. We feel that Arizona's current tag allocation system and draw process is unrivaled in the West and that the current number of raffle and auction tags are very adequate. We strongly support everyone's right to hunt whether guided or unguided and do not support a system where some are given advantage by circumventing the current draw system. We strongly support the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and desire that everyone have equal opportunity to hunt Arizona's big game by obtaining their tag through the established drawing process. Therefore we do not support HB 2072 or any such legislation that would threaten, or diminish in any way, the general publics right to hunt the big game of Arizona.

We are also strongly opposed to wolf reintroductions due to their proven, devastating effect on big game populations. Wolves are a tool used to intentionally reduce or eliminate hunting opportunity. We feel that Hunting is the best and most predictable management tool.


You might drop him a line of thanks.
 
I know that guy - lol

he comes on here quite often -

Steve - Thanks you

Dwane - -YOU too

now if a few others will step-up!
 
That is good news !! I see one AZ outfitter on here that said ...so be it.. I will not as much even look at his web site again after seeing where he stands on this. After buying/watching Extreme Bull dvd's by Chappell Guide Service since Extreme Bulls #1 and saving AZ elk points for 10 years I have been thinking hard about using them for an elk hunt in the near future and was eager to see where Steve stood on all this....We might just do some business... If he had supported HB2072... THERE AIN'T NO WAY !!!
PS.I recieved Extreme Bulls 7 a week or so ago...gotta get ya one !
 
>cut/paste from Steve Chappell's site:
>
>About Us:
>
>Regarding HB 2072 and SFW: We
>at Chappell Guide Service have
>always prided ourselves in guiding
>only individuals that have drawn
>their tags through the Arizona
>Game & Fish draw system.
> We feel that Arizona's
>current tag allocation system and
>draw process is unrivaled in
>the West and that the
>current number of raffle and
>auction tags are very adequate.
> We strongly support everyone's
>right to hunt whether guided
>or unguided and do not
>support a system where some
>are given advantage by circumventing
>the current draw system.
>We strongly support the North
>American Model of Wildlife Conservation
>and desire that everyone have
>equal opportunity to hunt Arizona's
>big game by obtaining their
>tag through the established drawing
>process. Therefore we do
>not support HB 2072 or
>any such legislation that would
>threaten, or diminish in any
>way, the general publics right
>to hunt the big game
>of Arizona.
>
>We are also strongly opposed to
>wolf reintroductions due to their
>proven, devastating effect on big
>game populations. Wolves are
>a tool used to intentionally
>reduce or eliminate hunting opportunity.
> We feel that Hunting
>is the best and most
>predictable management tool.
>
>
>You might drop him a line
>of thanks.
Its good to see some of the guides, especially a top end guide like steve chappell stand up and have the balls to give their position on such a hot subject. In the 15 years i have known steve he has always "done the right thing", and it looks like he hasnt changed a thing. Stevey (my nick name for steve), thanks for going out on a limb and giving us your opinion cause none of the other big named guides have done the same. I think a lot of hunters have been standing on the side lines waiting for some of the guides opinions on the subject. This is whole thing has been about fairness from the start, and selling a bunch more tags to the highest bidder isnt fair to the average guy in the field. Stevey, thanks for maning up on this one bud.
 
this argument that the wildlife and the tags belong to the public is a mute point. i think most people agree about that concept to one extreme or another.

the fact that people want azgfd to get 100% of the proceeds of a possible large sum of monies for wildlife conservation is despicable. if there is any organization that has failed over the last 15 years in the wildlife conservation effort it is the AZGFD. why give the money back to them? it makes no sense. the only thing attractive about the bill, IMO, is the fact that there is an open avenue for conservation organizations to receive more money to fund projects that will enhance the outlook on the future of hunting in az.

which organization is in charge of such money is not so important to me. it should be the one who can most effectively "manage" such funds, ie. the one that gives the sportsmen throughout the state the "best bang for their buck." IE. how many functional drinkers can XYZ conservation organization build and maintain with xxx amount of money? what group has the most transparency with their funds and can prove to better manage the "publics" money? these are the questions that need to be asked. not whether or not the AZGFD can spend 3 million dollars better or more efficiently than a wildlife conservation group (AES, MDS, ADA, SFW, etc.) we should all know the answer to that question.

huntazido summed it up pretty well. the AZGFD will come in last to all other organizations when it comes to efficiency and protecting and preserving big game hunting in the state of arizona. IMO, the facts are that we need more money put towards wildlife conservation efforts in arizona so we can more predictably preserve out hunting heritage for generations to come. if the money was "well spent" from these tags, there would be a net return on investment in favor of the public by growing big game herds throughout the state that would more efficiently maximize the states carrying capacity of big game = more tags in the long term.
 
Bully, Billy, Kid or what ever moniker you wish to go by, I have copied and will paste your post so that I can respond appropriately. In the short term, I will tell you that my own organization is the answer to your question in the third paragraph. In 2002, our organiztion recogined the drought issues and the demand for water provided soley by the Game and Fish Department at huge expense. We had already worked on/installed/repared drinkers prior to that. We raised nearly $40,000.00 the first year via raffles and golf tournaments and very generous donations from those who do not bid on auction tags. The generous donors that supported us, didn't want anything in return. They, unlike others simply wanted to help.
We have a water team. Volunteers who just last weekend were in the Kofa's to intall an entirely new drinker system to support the Sonoran Pronghorn that will be released from their transplant pen this year. A small group of volunteers installed this new water in three days of hard work. Was there an expense for the Game and Fish Department? I'm sure that there was. Was the expense as huge as would be normally required if department personnel or contrators did it on the own? The answer is he$$ no. Volunteers did it. It's likely that the Depatment paid for the materiels but the labor was volunteer. What does it cost the Department to pay an employee vs a volunteer? I'm sure that you should be able to figure it out. At least I hope so. One other thing that I would like to bring to your attention. Our crew of volunteers can install an entirely new system in one weekend. If Department staff has to do it, it could take up to three pay periods. If a contractor is hire to do it there is no telling what kind of cr@p you're going to get. I have peronally seen some of the contractor's work. It's garbage.

You got on your high horse, now I have gotten on mine. If you'd like to joust, bring it on.

Archerycrazy
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-12 AT 12:49PM (MST)[p]]


billy BOY

easy to see u- r -a sfw flunky- groupy-

all the facts you list is like smoke on the wind - AZSFW is a bunch of money grabbers- no auditing - no accountabliities where money is to be spent - other than they want complete control

just blow away with the smoke you spew - you do not have any facts!

talkin out ur ace - go away

all these programs we already have and our G&F is one of the finest in the S/W because they will not allow special interest groups to "DECIDE" what needs to be done. they are govenor appointed officials a state agency not a private group of newbies!


please go back to where ever you came from
 
Come on guys...show a little compassion to Billythekid...

The AZG&F does a horrible job of managing wildlife.

I dont even know why I waste my time applying there. If the best they can do is provide a NR from Wyoming with the opportunity to hunt elk like these 2 out of the last 4 years I've applied...I'm going to just spend my money elsewhere:

AZ_Elk%20056.jpg


P1240774.JPG


The AZG&F does nothing for coues deer either...I'm just about over all the lack of game and no opportunities in AZ.

IMG_3329.JPG


In case you missed the sarcasm...the AZG&F does a very good job, and I'm thankful for all they do and for allowing me to apply as a NR there. Thanks to the AZG&F as well as the AZ Residents and various AZ hunting organizations (other than SFW)...well done.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-12 AT 04:22PM (MST)[p]Nice Buzz, congrats those are great animals.
I am a native Arizonan, a third gen hunter here. I have seen the declines in animal species and the boom years as well.
Although I have no always agreed with the AZGFD on some issues, I do see the great things they have done with regards to certain units across the state. There are still issues and will always be issues when managing living organisms. That being said I live in a place where a few years ago i never saw a mule deer. Now i see them nearly every day except during the winter when the snow is too deep, this year theres hardly been any snow and I am already seeing the deer, alot of them. I am surrounded by elk. In august and Sept my wife and I listen to the bull elk talk every night outside our bedroom window. Every trip into the forest to cut wood for the winter allows us almost a sure sighting of many elk.
I also do not see where someone from another state can criticize the AZGFD for what they do? I mean really? or is it because they just want another shot becuase of their wealth and entitlement to come here and take a "trophy" animal home to brag about or grace a page or two in some magazine?
The AZ drawing process is as far as I can tell one of the fairest processes in the west. I praise the individual organizations for their dedication and work. I cast no confidence in those that support ASZFW or their ideals, for several reasons.
Kudos to the AZGFD.
BTW do any of you remember the calvin USO stickers? LOL I thought about having one made for my shell with Calvin and ASFW. just a thought.
JD
 
Just got off the phone with Rich Crandall's office. He is OPPOSSED to HB2072.....call his office and thank him......Lewis is the office contact...602-926-3020....... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Just spoke to Lewis, and extended my appreciation for Mr. Crandalls Opposition to HB2072. It only takes a few seconds to do this. When these elected folks, get these phone calls it tells them that they are doing something right, regardless of party affiliation or social status. It lets them know we as a group are watching whats going on, that we are not the stereotype of the "Bubba," type hunters, that we are in fact educated, passionate and informed as we keep checking the pulse of what is important to us and to our future. Not only for the future of our heritage of hunting, but for other wildlife enthusiasts.
BTW I spoke to Johnny Johnson this lasty weekend and asked him if he knew about the bill and he surprisingly or not sosurprisingly, knew nothing of it. I explained a bit to him and asked if he would put something on his TV show. He said he would call Commissioner Norm Freeman and speak to him then probably put something on his show. JFI
Thanks to all of you for everything your doing. Staying vigilant from all angles is key. The session is almost over but the fight isnt until it is clear as a bell that we dont want AZSFW or their ilk running anything to do with our wild Arizona.
JD
 
Wow this is good! I hope this passion does not die after Hb2072 is put to rest. Keep it going!
 
>Come on guys...show a little compassion
>to Billythekid...
>
>The AZG&F does a horrible job
>of managing wildlife.
>
>I dont even know why I
>waste my time applying there.
>If the best they can
>do is provide a NR
>from Wyoming with the opportunity
>to hunt elk like these
>2 out of the last
>4 years I've applied...I'm going
>to just spend my money
>elsewhere:
>
>
AZ_Elk%20056.jpg

>
>
P1240774.JPG

>
>The AZG&F does nothing for coues
>deer either...I'm just about over
>all the lack of game
>and no opportunities in AZ.
>
>
>
IMG_3329.JPG

>
>In case you missed the sarcasm...the
>AZG&F does a very good
>job, and I'm thankful for
>all they do and for
>allowing me to apply as
>a NR there. Thanks to
>the AZG&F as well as
>the AZ Residents and various
>AZ hunting organizations (other than
>SFW)...well done.
>
>


Gosh, SFW did all that? The other critter groups, the fed funds, the state funds...they did nothing? What about the deer herds since SFW works miracles? I hear that fewer hunters are headed out hunting deer this fall. Oh, I suppose all success is merely due to SFW and all failures are predators, incompetent F&G, etc.

Utah sheeple deserve SFW.

Not every state is so gullible to the song and dance.

SFW is a welfare organization with so many cronies that the financials have to be so muddled and delayed or pitchforks would be gathered.

Stay out of AZ.
 
I think you need to read my post again...slow down this time and pay attention.

I doubt anyone on this board thinks less of SFW than I do.

The AZG&F does a great job...I've no complaints.
 
Buzz, I hate it when you have to explain sarcasm... same as explaining a punch line.

Nice work man, I've read your stuff on 24hour and know you work hard in Wy on issues.

Kent
 
Duwane Adams is to be commended!
As are the other outfitters and guides that are in opposition of this bill. Nice to see that their priorities are set straight!

I will sure remember them when I finally draw that once in a lifetime tag.

4678aec03a21ae00.jpg
 
Has anyone contacted Safari Club International? They have extensive resources. I doubt SCI would support privatization of hunting, as that's what this post has alluded to what Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife is pushing. SCI's lobbying/political clout is second to none.

If an organization or person is profiting from selling big game tags, that have historically been awarded via a draw system to the public by the state, under the cloak of "promoting wildlife" then they should be "outed".

If Utah's hunting access by the general public has been limited by SFW's "privatization" of big game tags, then everyone in Arizona and the rest of the country needs to know. SFW has introduced this concept to Alaska's Fish & Game.

I don't know the truth about SFW's agenda. But, if the Fish & Game Dept. is taking big game tags from the public draw and awarding them to SFW who in turn sell them for "profit" there's cause for alarm for the hunting public.

Our hunting heritage is under enough attack by the liberal left and we, as hunters, do not need in-fighting between us. As hunters we should be united to preserve our AMERICAN heritage at all costs. The long term effects of "privatizing" our heritage is a dangerous proposition that, while appealing to some today, could lead to only the wealthy being able to afford to hunt in the future. I think we all agree that's not where our country should go.

I challenge everyone, including myself, to research this issue and understand exactly what SFW is promoting. Then, decide for yourself if you support it. If not, then contact your legislature, Dept. of Fish & Game, SCI, DU, Dallas Safari Club, etc. to let them know how you feel and ask them to help preserve our heritage.
 
I believe I read in the last 3-4 weeks that SCI has signed on with AZSFW. If I remember correctly it was in an informational email from AZSFW. This happened around the same time AZ elk society and NWTF withdrew their membership.
 
SCI originally supported the USO/TRaulman lawsuit here so no surprise there. They are no better than SFW regarding the average family hunter.
 
We here in AZ do understand what AZSFW is promoting. We understand clearly.
Let me explain something without going into the bill that is full of holes, financial gain off our wildlife and the distortion of the namc.
I read the bill again last night from the AZ leg website.
At the bottom of the bill. Sec3 under Emergency due to public safety etc etc the bill should go through and be enacted into law upon passage.
Um what emergency? I'm very sure no emergency existed except in heh minds of the lobbyist legislator sfw et al. I also think that to have done so was something akin to perjury and to try and hear or pass a bill under an emergency when clearly none exists, should be a violation of the law as it was certainly a violation of the public trust.
With that being said the SCI supports the sfw and their mission here in AZ. It's Thursday and the session ends Fri I believe. Those that have remained on the fence so to speak have had their chance to speak out or for. Picture in your mind someone who doesn't take a side until a clear front runner or winner is obvious. This person or group has no strength IMO . Those that take a side and win by fighting justly for what they believe I will always have more respect for than the bench rider. If I may borrow just a line from a person in our history responsible for one of the very things we are fighting for " I potty those poor and timid souls who no neither victory nor defeat ."
I want nothing more to do with the orgs on the fence. This is a big issue in AZ to ride the fence isn't in my view American, it is weakness and or corrupt be it political, financial or both. I myself have given the ADA their
time personally to see what they would do. I loved the org but today I will no longer spend my money there. I will join a group such as the AES or another. Those that have taken a stand against the obvious wrongs of the sfw should be the groups and businesses that are supported by the sportsmen of AZ. SCI isn't one in my book either .
My .02
 
Billy,

I'm sorry my friend but you are completely wrong.

AZGFD is a state agency. With a state agency you have to accept certain relalities. There is a lot more red tape involved with everything they do so yes, they are a bit slow sometimes. With the current commissioners, we are seeing a much more flexible group of people. Example, last fall they voted to raise statewide buck to doe ratios from 10-20 bucks per 100 does to 20-30 bucks per 100 does. They are now allowing night shooting of predators in certain parts of the state. As far as water projects go, who do you think wades through all the red tape, pays for environmental impact studies, deals with the different state and feral agenices and pays for the lions share of the materials? You got it, game and fish. I said this on a different forum but it begs repeating here. What is the one entity that will ALWAYS be involved with wildlife? What is the one entity that cannot fail? I'll tell you what, SFW's, USO's, even ADA's will come and go but the one entity that will always be there is the AZGFD. To back door or side step AZGFD is asking for a short life as an org. You will accomplish much more for wildlife if you can learb to work with the dept instead of backdooring them and doing it your own way. Do you really think that AZSFW has a better handle on wildlife needs than a dept of wildlife biologists? That's idiotic. Judging from what they have done in UT and have tried and are trying to do in other states, its all about the money. You can be pissed of at G and F all you want but they will be here long after we're gone. I'll tell you what, go educate yourself on the current state of Arizona's mule deer herds OUTSIDE OF THE STRIP AND THE KIABAB and then go look at where most of the deer orgs efforts are being focused. If you didn't know any better, you'd think there wasn't a mule deer that put its hooves on the ground south of the canyon. And you can thank a select few orgs for that. I'm glad you are here Billy and I invite you to come back and have an honest healthy debate. I won't call you names or tell you to get lost, I'll just prove you 100 percent wrong.


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
Let me add this and I might catch some big flack for this but I'm gonna say it anyway.

This whole mess is our own damn faults.

If we as sportsman were supporting the conservation orgs the way the anti's support there groups we wouldn't be here. Here's why.

Let's say for arguments sake that AZSFW had truly honorable intentions with this bill and they were truly going to use those funds generated by these tags for conservation. What does that say about us guys? That we are like a bunch of selfish kids. Dad has to take our toys away and do what's best for us because we're not doing it ourselves. We need an org to step in, take our tags and auction them off to get the funding we should already be providing. The anti's do it! They have huge somes of money they get from passionate supporters. RMEF has roughly 5500 members in this state.. And how many elk hunters do we have? We need to learn one simple lesson from this, we had better step up as a whole community and support good conservation orgs even if its just membership dues. How many members does the ADA have , 400-500? How many deer hunters are in this state? The ratios are staggering. If we as hunters would get even slightly more involved, there would be no excuse to take tags away to raise money to fight the anti's. You can get upset at me if you want guys but that's the reality.

I love the passion everyone is showning and I know I'm probably saying this to the guys who are the most involved and if that's you, disregard this post. I'm talking to the vast majority of hunters who aren't involved in anything but getting a tag and going hunting.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
Walker

Sad, but true. We do have the ability to bring the average hunter into the game though. A statewide habitat stamp on every issued license would raise the money. G&F and the dedicated hunters would get the work done.
 
Very true Sage, I hope they realize what a habitat stamp will do instead of fighting it. A unit specific stamp where needed who look less like a price gouge. You knwo there will be lots of guys screaming over even a $5 stamp.

There are some big irons in the fire right now and I think some big changes are only a few years away. We have to get at least 50 percent of the hunters in this state involved though.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
It's really too bad that we can't get a majority of the dedicated hunters to donate to our causes like the antis do to fight us!
 
You know Top, I used to be one of the guys that hated game and fish. I learned fairly recently though that these guys love what they do. They have to... You know they aren't doing it for the money. They operate on a very tight budget and get all their money from license sales. Now consider this, if we donated half the money the anti's do to their orgs and were able to fight the wolf reintroductions, anti-trapping bills, enviromental garbage and everything else, Game and Fish wouldn't have to spend the money to deal with it when we lose! Now we have AZSFW putting a bill out there claiming to do all this stuff but they want our tags to do it. If we would have supported the good orgs with the money to fight all this stuff, AZSFW wouldn't be able to use it as excuse to get those tags. If this bill fails and I pray it does, we had better wake up this year and get some stuff done, otherwise, they will dress that bill up and make it "look" good and get it passed next year. If by chance it does pass, we can thank ourselves for not taking care of buisness. We can sit back and blame AZSFW all we wany for this but if we were doing what we are supposed to be doing, they wouldn't have all these excuses to need tag money.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
walker, I agree with you and want to start addressing the apathy problem ...........as for another good guy, add Justin pierce to the list. I just got off the phone with him and he said he has serious problems with hb2072 as it exists........ Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
We have the ability to put SFW, and any others that come along, out of business. The G&F is hosting the first Sportsmen Constituent Group meeting on Mar 22, 6-9PM at G&F headquarters chaired by Commissioner Kurt Davis. The purpose of this group is to get direct input from "non-affiliated" sportsmen, people that do not belong to any club or organization. Input will be accepted from clubs and organizations only as time allows. Couple this working group with the Habitat Partnership Committee and we have everything we need to do what HB2072 was purported to address. Its all there, we just need to support G&F and the local HPC's. We can own this issue and keep the tag pimps out.
 
I think people that say they are against HB2072 should also state where they stand with AZSFW. Saying they disagree with the bill is one thing but are you for or against AZSFW. AZSFW would still like to get those tags some how maybe not with HB2072 maybe another bill someday. Myself I "do not" want any thing to do with ANYONE accociated with AZSFW even if it's the guy selling bubble gum at the 7/11 !!!
 
I agree with AZWALKER that very few hunters support our wildlife groups get involved or loose it all!! Get off your dead arses and Support these groups!! Or at least make a few phone calls opposing HB 2072.

azbackwoods backwoodsguides.com
 

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