Gore-tex Jacket & DWR Questions

gznokes · Apr 18, 2012

I have a 2 or 3 year old Arcteryx Beta AR goretex hardshell jacket. I was out in the rain with it recently and for the first 15 minutes the rain was beading up and shedding off of it nicely. As the storm continued the rain quit beading and started to soak into the exterior fabric. This did not mean that the rain soaked through to the skin--just that the nylon exterior started to saturate.

This brought up a few questions:
1. How long should the DWR (durable water repellant) baked/applied to the shell's exterior be expected to shed water?
2. How often should it be reapplied?
3. What brand DWR do you like to use for reapplication?
4. If the exterior shell is getting saturated does that negate Gore-tex ability to pass through vapor? (I assume it does)
5. In your experience, does Gore-tex still produce a "clammy" environment inside the jacket when it is raining? (it seems to do so especially when I'm working hard, and it is raining)
6. Have you found that when you sit on wet ground, or even on a wet ski lift bench in gore-tex pants that you will end up with wet pants inside? If so how do you handle this? (I have read that one of the dirty secrets on Gore-tex is that it will pass water through with the equivalent of 25 lbs of pressure.)
7. Are there other things about a garment's construction or use that you have found to be helpful in staying dry?

grizzly · Apr 18, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Apr-18-12 AT 01:11PM (MST)[p]I am not an expert, but in my research I think what you are experiencing is called "wetting out". No hard-shell is as breathable as a soft-shell. Once the shell gets "wetted out", you lose even more breathability due to the vapors being held inside the Gore-tex membrane.

Wash your shells in NIKWAX 1-2 times per year and it will help restore the DWR capabilities. But on average a shell can only be washed about 50 times before the nanotechnology of the fabric is damaged. Basically, it will never be as good as new. You can see the damage under a microscope.

Jason Hairston has great info on this subject on his KUIU site and why he picked the materials that he did. He even names Arcteryx as one of the top brands out there, one that he likes to learn from. But coats do wear out over time.

gznokes · Apr 18, 2012

Grizzly, Thanks for the tip.

Do you have a sense in your own experience how long a hardshell will shed water if the DWR is up to snuff? Will any DWR treated garment eventually wet out if it is exposed to water long enough?

Jason is a good guy and his Kuiu gear is ridiculously good. The softshell and wool stuff he is producing is phenomenal.

earlyriser · Apr 29, 2012

REI has an article on DWR. What it is/does, reasons why it is reduced over time, and how to "fix" the wet out you may be experiencing.

HardcoreOutdoor · May 4, 2012

From the pacakable rain wear string in this forum

"I have three or four dozen shell jackets that over the years were supposed to be the latest and greatest and the truth is that they will all wet out if your physical exertion produces more perspiration then can be vented (actively and or passively) away. It is simple physics, thermodynamics and hydrology.

The waterproof/breathable (water vapor permeable) membranes from Gore-Tex, eVent, and Toray all do a pretty good job of helping to ventilate when the exteriors are dry but you are correct, that capability is severly limited if not eliminated completely when the heavy precipitation starts and that really shouldn't surprise anybody if they just stop and think the process through. There are no magic fabrics yet, you still have to use your brain and manage your layers and behavior. It can be done with out too much trouble.

For what I do, I would still pay the extra money for an established waterproof/breathable shell over one that is not."

Under normal pressures water will not pass from the outside to the inside unless the Gore-Tex laminate or seam tape is damaged.

DWR should be replenished/refreshed/reapplied once a year for normal use. More if you are a hard user or have been exposed to a lot of campfire smoke or other chemical contaminant.

I like Grangers

http://hardcoreoutdoor.com/search.aspx?q=granger&sc=tcon&dt=a&al=

Other things that help you stay dry, active ventilation.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com

gznokes · May 9, 2012

Thanks for chiming in.

Wade, I have not seen nor tried that grangers stuff. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. One thing I've noticed about the Nikwax stuff is it smells like Elmers glue for a day or two after the spray version is applied. Does that granger brand stuff have a spray on version for stuff that isn't easily washable like backpacks?