Gunnison Basin Report

ICMDEER

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Third season is history and if I recall correctly, there were not any 4th season licenses. So how was the hunting? I'd like to hear if the winter was as tough on those big bucks as we thought or if some big-time bucks were still taken. And barring another disasterous winter, how do things look for the future?
 
I don't know how it ended up, but as of a few days of the opening of the third season, we could not find hardly any deer. We were looking in the low country so I don't know if it was the warm weather, winter kill or both. I think Tomichi was right but I had to see for myself. Turned in my tag and went home.
 
Some of you Gunnison Basin hunters might want to attend this event and ask some questions....

SPORTSMEN'S ADVISORY GROUP TO MEET IN GUNNISON

The Colorado Division of Wildlife invites hunters, anglers and members of the public to a Sportsmen's Advisory Group meeting in Gunnison, 9-noon, Nov. 22, at the DOW office, 300 New York Ave.

Attending the meeting will be Tom Spezze, southwest regional manager, and other staff members from the region. Spezze will talk about wildlife issues facing the region and the state. He'll also discuss the Colorado Wildlife Habitat Conservation Program.

The meeting will also be open for discussion of issues that sportsmen and members of the public want to address.

Scott
Member: RMEF, SCI, and NRA
 
I have a couple of buddies that hunted 54 3rd this year. Only saw a handful of bucks in nine days. One of them has hunted the unit for the last three years. According to him, Unit 54 went from the best unit he's ever hunted to the worst. He feels winterkill was alot worse than believed. They heard rumor of a 195" typical being killed. Didn't see it though. Made my mind up about trying for a 2nd. season tag in 2009.

Don P.
 
I too had a 54 3rd season tag and went home empty. Yes, people warned me, and i knew the risks. That's hunting. I am not blaming the DOW in anyway either. It was my hunt and I made what I could of it.

I had another guy with me to help glass and spot and we often watched two areas at a time to double our chances of getting one spotted. I had scouted access mainly earlier in the summer and we scouted for animals starting 2 days prior and hunted the 1st 5 days of the season. For bucks, we only saw two 23" choppers across a canyon and one lil fork. And we saw about 2 doe-fawns/day. And even they were darn-near nocturnal, making it tougher. Literally only 20 or so deer in 7 days. We hunted high and low - finding most of the few deer we found at 9500' or higher.

As you know 54 has unlimited elk hunters, so with 1000 of them running around, there were a lot of eyes to help out the 60 deerhunters. And by day 3 or day 4 we had run into a lot of them that were doing elk drives in the timber and usually had kicked up 20+ bucks and several trophies, and they had seen only a few does. Some of these hunters had hunted elk in the unit for years and know what they usually see - and last year 3rd season had the same weather pattern and they saw numerous BIG bucks, but had no buck tags. This year was a different story.

We saw one nice buck killed (170s???) But it was the first buck they saw in 4 days and pushed out on a timber drive. We talked to hunters from 66 and 67 also and they were seeing a few more but about the same and what deer they saw at 10,000 and above.

I am sure after the snow, a few might've come out on the Friday (last day of season), but I had to head back to work and was at wits end with where to try next - the deer were far and few between.

So between my observations, but more importantly the tons of hunters in the field I have to believe the winter kill was higher than everyone (including myself) had thought.
It is neat country and be awhile before I can build up the point balance again to draw and I hope it can recover.

M
 
I hunted Mule deer in 66 3rd season.......without success.
I hunted hard all 7 days and we had weather the last 3 days with 9" of snow and -7 on the last morning.
The deer #'s were down, an outfitter and an owner of a sporting goods store both told me 75% to 80% winter kill. I did find does... some big groups... with up to 14 in the herd. I checked the does each day and spent mid days covering country.. hoping to find a mature buck traveling...looking.
I saw 3 bucks killed, nothing over 175". The dates were early this year (1st-7th), I have a hard time believing that the does I saw(over 100 different total) survived but the mature bucks ALL winter killed. I think a few shooter bucks would have appeared if I wouldn't have run out of days.
that's my 2 cents.
 
Just for comparison.....I hunted 54 3rd season last year. My buddy, my dad and I went 2 days early to do some last minute scouting. The temps last year were pretty identical to this year being in the mid 60s during the day. In those 2 full days of scouting we saw 28 four points and I would guess around 200+ does. Of those 28 four points I would say that half of them would score above 160, 6-7 of them over 170, 3 over 180, and one scoring 198".....Sorry I removed him from the herd on opening morning. We only scouted and hunted the low country even with those high temps. Sounds like a pretty drastic change from last year to this year. I hope they can bounce back.
 
My brother and I just finished a 4th season elk hunt in 54. We covered a lot of ground, from the east side near Red Mountain & Flat Top, all the way to Curecanti Creek on the west. We saw less than 20 elk and about the same amount of deer. Saw 3 bucks in 5 days of hunting. The weather has been really mild, but there is enough snow up high to get the animals moving. I live in Gunnison and have a good idea of what to expect during a normal year. I agree that the winterkill on deer was around 75% and elk maybe 40-50%. I'll go out again in a few weeks to look around when the rut is in full swing, but I'm not expecting to see many animals.
 
I have hunted 54 and 66 the last 4 years with landowner tags.. I agree that 66 was NOTHING like it was last year.. But I don't believe all the blame has to be on the winterkill. I have noticed a steady downhill path in the basin up until last year, and this winter just finished it off. Something needed to change(especially in 54) before this winter
 
Hey Kachta, Your info. that you provided to me last year for unit 54 was key to me killing a stud. I don't think I ever thanked you. Awesome hunt and killed right where you told me to be. Thanks.
 
I was with Sierra140gr on his scout,
and he pretty well nailed it.

Wonder how long 'til the glory days
return, baring another bad winter.

Bad situation. But part of it.

Laro
 
Marley,I will send pics when I figure out
how to,or get one of my grandsons to help
me.Last year after the hunt Ransom helped
me post some pics.


Jim
 
here you go jp7mag these are the only ones I got.
COLORADO UNIT 54 3RD SEASON
DSCN0300.jpg


DSCN0299.jpg
 
Agree that JP7Mag found a beauty - great mass and character - congrats on a hunt that I know wasn't easy. Nice buck!!!

Waygoner - I still would've figured that 4th season would've brought a few more out. Tough, tough hunt, and the few 4th season tags didn't come easy. So that is a realistic picture of the situation. Also interesting on the low welk observations. Several of the ranchers (grazing lease on BLM) were saying they weren't so sure on the elk report either (consistent reports of overpopulated elk in 54).
 
that deer looks like a perfect example of a gunnison basin buck. They all seem to carry alot of mass. I have noticed 66 has a front crab fork problem for sure though!
 
That buck is what we expect to see in the G Basin. Too bad ther were not more of them taken this year. Thanks to all for the reports. Sounds like 2009 is still way too early to consider going there for the big guys once again. Maybe 2011.
 
I thought this was interesting !!!!Read it on the DOW web site under hunting!

Some Hunters Wonder Why Usually Reliable Areas Didn't Produce in 2008


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Colorado Division of Wildlife is hearing questions lately about why fall hunting seasons saw lower than expected harvest in some places. Some hunters have suggested that last winter's high snowfall and extremely cold temperatures may have taken a heavy toll on the herds. Others seem to think that warm fall weather was to blame.

Warm weather was certainly a large factor. Fall temperatures were well above average, and snow fall was minimal during all seasons, meaning herds saw no reason to leave their traditional summer ranges and head for winter range. When the herds didn't migrate at the schedule, or into the areas hunters had grown accustom to over the past decade, some reliable hunting areas turned out to be vacant of big game. Animals weren't down low and weren't headed for lower elevation and that meant hunters along those traditional migratory paths weren't seeing any animals.

Biologists and wildlife managers say big game dispersal may also have played a role in why hunters saw fewer animals. Hunters that headed for higher elevation in the hopes of finding the elk during the outbreak of unseasonable warm weather were more likely to be successful. But even some of those hunters said they saw fewer animals than in years past. That may be related to last winter's heavy snowfall which made water plentiful and forage bountiful across the high country. This past summer and fall there was waterand food available across the forested lands and high country, consequently animals were widely distributed and more difficult to locate.

In localized areas winterkill may have contributed to fewer big game animals; but winter mortality is likely a smaller factor than the warm weather, and the widely dispersed game, when it comes to why hunters might not have seen game. In the areas where biologists were aware of higher than average winter mule deer mortality last spring - like the Gunnison Basin and the Eagle Valley - they made dramatic reductions in available licenses.

Elk hunters may also have seen fewer elk as populations have been reduced to meet herd objectives. For several years elk populations in parts of northwest Colorado have been above the Division of Wildlife's management objectives. The agency has added seasons and issued plentiful licenses to reduce elk numbers and limit conflicts between elk and landowners. In response, elk harvest has increased and elk populations have declined. In some areas, elk hunters will continue to see fewer elk, and the number of available elk licenses will be reduced as herds reach objective levels.

Besides anecdotal information from hunters, the Division of Wildlife has three important processes in place that will help scientifically assess the health of big game herds. First, mule deer survival studies are taking place in the Piceance Basin, Uncompaghre Plateau, Middle Park, and a new study implemented this year in the Gunnison Plateau. These studies provide individual animal survival data to better understand how animals are surviving through the winter and the cause of mortality for those that don't survive. Second, wildlife managers utilize helicopters to collect information on the age and sex of animals in the herd through February. This data helps inform biologists of the herd health across the state. Finally, annual hunter surveys are being conducted to determine harvest totals and to provide detailed information on if success was markedly lower and in what areas.
 
We're well on our way to having another harsh winter. This is what it looks like in my back yard right now. If the snow keeps piling up the deer numbers will plummet even further.

swow_small.jpg
 
Looks a lot like 76---it is a sad state of affairs everywhere it seems like. There a couple of things that seem to be overlooked or not talked about for some reason. I cannot speak for things in the Gunnison area but I will speak about the areas west of the San Luis Valley--80 81 76 69 68 751 and so on. In general as the wonderful Colorado DOW has tried to meet there population objectives in the over the counter units down here, things have taken a dramatic turn for the worse. I belive as do many a couple of factors play into this....First and formost, their traditional methods of counting dont work and they refuse to admit it or God forbid the reported numbers are not accurate to continue to allow over the counter sales which in turn fund there budget. I also belive they have not accurately reported the effects of the last two winters, be it to continue to have a seemingly endless number of over the counter sales or they just really dont know. I am not sure and dang sure am not a biologist, but I have a spent a great deal of time in these units, seen things good and seen them bad and this certainly is one of the worst in 30 years. So lets say the winters have not helped, but I truely belive until Colorado changes it game management practices from a quanity over quality practice in most units our times are changing for the worse.
 
I overlooked one very important item that I have not heard anyone talk about. The winter mortality rate has been bad and is very important in the big picture but what is also very important is the number of cows and does that aborted the last two winters in a effort to save themselves. It is funny the DOW does not talk about this at any of the meetings I have been too and when asked about it have no real responce. Like I said before, I spend a lot of time in the hills and this year saw very few calfs, which is almost as scary to me as the high mortality rates last year and the year before.
 
I sure do agree with "huntelk8863". Like him I spend
almost every day from June to Oct in the back country
in 76. Even though 76 is a draw most of the elk I see
during that time go south to the OTC units. The bull-
cow ratios in 76 are poor as the other units to the south.
The latest data for the area between Cortez and Alamosa
are the lowest in the state for bull-cow ratios. Colo
DOW refuses to increase the limited areas because
of the revenue loss and the pressure from the business
interests. I spoke to the CWC 3 weeks ago in Montrose
about this very matter. One response was we have a
better bull-cow ratio than a few years ago. Of course
we do, we have shot so many cows in the last 5 years
that is true but we dont have more bulls than 5 years
ago. So far this winter it has been not as bad as
last winter in the Gunn-Montose area because 1. not
as cold Gunn has been below -15 only once 2. that
hard crusted snow is not as bad as last year.
At the 5 year season structure meetings this winter
attend and express your ideas. Roy in Montrose
 
Roy you hit on something that I have thought a lot about just didnt get into. We should consider when we talk\think about the bull to cow ratio the fact that in most counts I belive they are counting imature bulls-ie spikes, 2 and 3 year old branch antlered bulls. Most books I have read indicate that spikes and 2 year old bull should not be counted when calculating the ratio and some talk about the three year olds. Granted the average person is not going to be able to tell the difference but it is not hard to tell an imature bull from a mature bull. I my opinion this is just another way the powers to be mislead the commision as well as all hunters in a effort to maintain the cash flow.

Mark
 
the deer took a big hit! the elk are tough!
they aint runnin all over the place any more.
Quit crying?
 
Not just the Gunnison area was hit last winter,most of the western half of the state suffered.Some of the guys I know that hunt arround Meeker and Craig said deer were hard to find this last fall and elk were not in the areas they usually found them.
 
How is the winter going out there so far this year? I am hoping to make out there (unit 55) for archery elk this sept. Are the elk taking a big hit again this winter?
 
cold as usually in gunnison but the snow just aint that deep this year. Right? elk population was still good last yr.its a shame about the deer.alot of money spent last year.maybe we should have left mother nature play its self out? Genetics are still there!Should I go archery bull elk this yr are not?? Where the northern units hit harder than the southern units last year?Will a 380 class bull be shot in the gunnison basin next year?Are there still mucho 200 class bulls in the basin?If i hire a guide whats my odds of killing a bull with the bow.Has it changed since 2007?
 
Temps have been mild and not much snowfall after December. If it continues to be mild winterkill should be minimal.
 

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