Here come the feds!!!!

elks96

Long Time Member
Messages
3,827
Not sure if anyone else has heard, but Colorado is about to be the feds b*tch as they have now decided to list the Gunnison Sage grouse as threatened.

While in some cases this might be a good thing for some habitat, over all it means total loss of local and federal control.

It is surely going to get fought in the courts as well. But in all it means a lengthy and costly burden to the state, our wildlife funds and our ability to self manage.
 
And long overdue. The state CPW and landowners have known this was pending for a decade, and did not have the political will to save this habitat on their own. Why? Big oil spends billions here to elect their shills. Their daily commercials in major markets lie to the public about how strict our regulations are and how well they comply. This decision by the Feds is great news for all animals that depend on the sage flats. It proves big oil only cares about habitat when legally forced to do so.
 
SARATOGA, Wyo. (AP) ? Efforts to conserve a struggling species of grouse that ranges across the Western U.S. are having far-reaching effects on the region's energy industry as the Obama administration decides whether the bird needs more protections.



Sales of leases on 8.1 million acres of federal oil and gas parcels ? an area larger than Massachusetts and Rhode Island combined ? are on hold because of worries that drilling could harm greater sage grouse, according to government data obtained by The Associated Press.





The U.S. Bureau of Land Management's delay on the parcels underscores just how much is at stake for an industry that finds its future inextricably intertwined with a bird once known primarily for its elaborate mating display.



The grouse's huge range, covering portions of 11 states and an area more than four times as big as New England, includes vast oil, gas and coal reserves and the best type of windy, open country for developing wind power.



"We're not real happy about it. It's not even an endangered species," said Rick Bailey, who runs an oil and gas lease brokerage, Nevada Leasing Services. He said he's had hundreds of thousands of acres of potential leases put on hold.



Those parcels are among 5 million acres the BLM has deferred in Nevada. Since 2008, millions more acres have been put on hold across Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana and the Dakotas, according to data compiled by the AP from BLM records and agency offices including in the West and Plains.



By comparison, about 26.6 million federal acres were under active oil and gas leases at the end of fiscal year 2013 in the seven states with deferrals. That figure is down more than 20 percent since 2008.



While some in the industry are concerned that the BLM's deferrals are going to dampen or curtail energy development, other developers are launching their own efforts to preserve sage grouse. Whether that's enough to avoid protections remains to be seen.



Sage grouse receive frequent comparisons to the Northern spotted owl, another imperiled bird that stirred a fight over logging in the Pacific Northwest. The sage grouse is more a hapless wild chicken, ducking futilely behind fence-posts as political and economic forces bear down upon its sagebrush range.



Croplands, home development, wildfires and oil and gas drilling consumed more than half that expansive habitat over the past century. Grouse numbers are down at least 30 percent to no more than 500,000 since 1985.



In 2010, federal biologists said protections were warranted, but didn't impose them citing other priorities and a shortage of funds.



The September 2015 deadline to either offer protections or decide they're no longer needed resulted from settlements of lawsuits brought by environmentalists. Whether the sales of leases on the deferred parcels will proceed and drilling will occur could hinge on that decision.



Already the administration's timeline to craft conservation plans for the bird is slipping. Federal officials want the 11 sage-grouse states and multiple federal agencies to agree to long-term steps to protect the birds. The effort includes overhauling 99 federal land-use plans.



"It is a Rubik's Cube of conservation," said Deputy Assistant Interior Secretary Jim Lyons, referring to the vexing 3-D puzzle popular in the 1980s.



Just one of the 99 plans is complete, in a BLM field office in Wyoming, home to almost 40 percent of the birds. The BLM office for Montana and the Dakotas said it's unlikely to meet the end-of-year target to complete some key environmental studies.



Wildlife and energy development advocates expressed doubt whether the Interior Department can meet its timeline. But Kathleen Sgamma with the oil and gas advocacy group Western Energy Alliance suggested it's becoming a moot point for some in the energy industry.



"You've got an industry that just wants to put its head down and get oil. The BLM is putting in place very onerous restrictions that will be with us whether or not there's (an endangered species) listing," Sgamma said.



Federal officials contend there's plenty of drilling opportunities beyond the deferred parcels. "The BLM has approved 6,000 (permits to drill) that are ready for industry to act on," said BLM assistant director Celia Boddington.



Complicating the conservation effort is that nobody knows the approximate number of greater sage grouse. Estimates range from 100,000 to 500,000. One reason they are difficult to count is they're spread across an immense, sparsely populated territory. Also, sage grouse rarely live longer than a year or two.



A tough winter, drought, wildfires or disease can knock a local sage grouse population on its tail feathers. Or abundant rain and snow can green up sagebrush, offering fresh forbs to females as they rear their chicks amid the fragrant shrubs.



At the largest proposed wind power project in the U.S. in Saratoga, Wyoming, developers are drawing from four years of sage grouse research to decide where to put service roads and turbines.



Consultants for the 1,000-turbine Chokecherry-Sierra Madre wind farm have been using transmitters to track hundreds of sage grouse. They want to figure out the birds' patterns, including where they gather for mating rituals that could be disrupted if construction comes too close.



"Knowing what those are for the population is hugely important for us to try to minimize those impacts," said Jon Kehmeier, an ecologist contracted for the research by the Power Company of Wyoming.



___



Brown reported from Billings, Montana.
 
Now Congress wont "Fund" interior to list. guess we have the best government money can buy... We quit hunting and letting people hunt sage chickens in September of 1984. SAGE GROUSE
ARE ENDANGERED! Any body who thinks different either hasn't lived here very long or spends way to much time in the house.
 
Elk duds, your a special kind of stupid! Do you really think the Feds are the right answer? Sorry but oil gas does not always equate to decreased populations!

I do not have enough time write out how wrong your thinking is, buyout really have no true idea what you are talking about!
 
>Now Congress wont "Fund" interior to
>list. guess we have
>the best government money can
>buy... We quit hunting
>and letting people hunt sage
>chickens in September of 1984.
> SAGE GROUSE
>ARE ENDANGERED! Any body who thinks
>different either hasn't lived here
>very long or spends way
>to much time in the
>house.

LOL! Ik is for a fact that bird populations have been stable for several years! I also fully believe that the bigger threat to the birds ar predators! Sorry but sage grouse numbers exploded when federal programs poisoned and killed predators! In man cases the birds populations were artificially high! The decline in bird populations is much more related to increased predators than to development! It is still important, but it is better to keep the Feds out of it!
 
Elks96-"Special kind of stupid?"

Is that the kind of stupid that posts informed opinions including supporting documents? The kind that does so without: relying on personal opinion stated as "a fact," with no corroboration, then stooping to namecalling because he knows no other way to disagree and defend his flawed position?

I respect your right to express whatever opinion you come up with. Knock yourself out, as often as you think you need to. Your "facts" will only be valid when you prove them with other sources.

Tomichi, you speak with the authority of experience, from Ground Zero of lost Gunnison sage grouse habitat. In the 1970s we hunted them in Gold Basin and on the west side of Flat Top. They were thick, and the Big Sage was over our heads. It held many big bucks as well. Sage grouse should have been listed 30 years ago.

69, If you care to add to your vast knowledge of sage grouse, read these:

http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/GunnisonSagegrouseConservationPlan.aspx

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/birds/gunnisonsagegrouse/

http://sanmiguelgrouse.org/
 
Elkduds +1

Elks96 is nothing more than an internet bully retard. All he's good for on this forum is "ATTA BOYS" or name calling whenever anyone brings up a real discussion that disagrees with his preconceived view of the world.
 
Oh yes boys, the Feds are the answer! Keep that dream alive and watch a continuation of eroding freedoms in the name of "protection".
Zeke
 
>Elkduds +1
>
>Elks96 is nothing more than an
>internet bully retard. All
>he's good for on this
>forum is "ATTA BOYS" or
>name calling whenever anyone brings
>up a real discussion that
>disagrees with his preconceived view
>of the world.

Krueger still a little butt hurt about the lead ban are we? HEHE! On the flip side thanks for adding such insightful thought provoking points to this conversation!

As for the Elkduds and Tominchi, no one disputes he fact that the grouse are in delicate spot. There is very little science that would say otherwise! The bigger issue at a hand is if we really want the federal government to have this control! Overwhelmingly the answer is no! The ESA is a horrible thing and is frequently used to hold states, property owners, etc. hostage under the false promise of conservation!

I laughed at Elkduds first article. In there is discussed how the spotted owl was used to shut down logging, then on et hat industry was virtually destroyed the owls population began to dip! It turns out that old growth Forrest is not nearly as important to the owl as young healthy Forrest! Yet the Feds under the ESA virtually wiped out logging.

Also consider that the state of Colorado along with several others states had been jumping through hoops and spending significant amounts of money trying to develop plans to stabilize populations etc. Many of the plans were developed in the last 4 to 5 years and in many cases were just starting to see gains in habitat and policy. However due to the take over by the Feds we will not know if the state plans were good, or not.

The other bad news is now the state will be at the beckoning call of the Feds. We will be forced to implements policies, procedures, etc. All of which will cost significant money! This will force the state shift money away from other pressing issue, for example the mule deer and into the birds! What it will cost and the ridiculous rules that will come is scary to think about!

The real issue here is not about conserving the grouse, but the manner I which that action occurs! I do not understand why anyone would want the Federal Government to over something that should be controlled at the state level! It is foolish to hope or think that federal control will lead to a better and more effective plan!

How long before a green group manages to shut down all Gunnison area hunts because a green group like the Sierra club has managed to argue that deer hunting causes excessive pressure on the birds and a federal judge in New York agrees? This is the sort of stuff that can happen when states loose control...
 
Hey come on now! I've has loose control of something before.
HAHA.
It still doesn't change the fact that I agree with elks for the most part.
Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-14 AT 01:04PM (MST)[p]>Hey come on now! I've has
>loose control of something before.
>
>HAHA.
>It still doesn't change the fact
>that I agree with elks
>for the most part.
>Zeke


It could have been a weird play on words! Maybe I was subconsciously thinking about how it will feel after the Feds are done raking us over the coals! LOL!
 
Does it make me a bad person to sit here and watch Krueger and elks call each other idiots and nod my head in complete agreement... with both. I hope he ain't no phuckin' English teacher... ain't no wunner Jonny caint read.
 

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