Pretty accurateView attachment 76571
You think we're going to lose pronghorn, deer, and elk opportunity for Residents?As I've been saying all along, Wyo res better watch their backs! It's obvious that nonres are issued very few high demand, limited tags...especially after landowners take a chunk off the top prior to the public draw. Where else will outfitters/landowners get tags? My guess is from Wyo res quotas?
It would be nice if both Wyo res and nonres that enjoy DIY/OYO hunting could join forces together on this and battle together against additional tags offered to outfitters/landowners. Just a thought?
I've always been a fan of having all tags available in a public draw. Each hunter that draws tags has the choice to hunt with outfitter or DIY/OYO. Keep it simple!
I think Wyo res DIY/OYO hunters are quickly figuring out how much strength the outfitters/landowners have on the TF. Wasn't the task fork originally designed to give Wyo res more opportunity? Yep you got a handful of sheep and moose tags but what about e/d/a that each and every Wyo res hunt on a regular basis?
Blah, Blah, Blah...all of what you're talking about, if it were to happen, is going to come from the NR tags.I guess we'll agree to disagree on this. Most of the high demand limited units for nonres hardly issue 1 or 2 tags. Some of the limited elk tags have 0 random tags because landowners already grab them prior to the public draw (124, 111 are examples). I'm not exactly sure where these tags are mysteriously going to come from? Definitely not from nonres because they have nothing to offer! Sy and the rest of the outfitters know this!
There are a number of ideas like transferable tags, outfitter signed contract tags, private land landowner tags, etc brought up by outfitters/landowners. If I was a Wyo res DIY/OYO hunter I would be asking specific questions. There are a lot of tags in jeopardy and nonres definitely have few to 0 to give!
"Transferable" means the landowner is given the tag, which they can then sell to an outfitter or directly to hunters. How about landowner tags which would give large landowners up to three additional (they get 2 now) male landowner tags (bull elk, buck deer) in exchange for public access to deeded property or landlocked public land. How about the idea of outfitter draw tags for tags available to clients that sign outfitter agreements prior to the draw. With all of these scenarios I can guarantee this would mean fewer Wyo res tags available for those units in the public draw. Where else are they going to come from? Nonres certainly don't have few to 0 tags available! Red flags are waving all over the place when these ideas are suggested!
Outfitters/landowners were able to confiscate tags from the public draw in Colorado and you are living in a dream world if you don't think this same thing can happen in Wyo! Take a look at who is on the TF! Wyo res DIY/OYO hunters better start asking questions and be prepared to battle!
Brace yourself for 40% of the NR quota for DEA going to the outfitter draw. This is the reward you are getting for helping WYOGA defeat 90/10 in the past.Buzz,
I understand completely that landowner tags either come from res or nonres pools separately off the top of the pile of tags prior to the draw. That's how it works now but could easily be changed. The current landowner tag system is a total joke and isn't functioning like it was designed. I bet anything the current landowner system will be changed soon!
The question is...where are all the tags outfitters/landowners are requesting come from? When there are 0 to 2 total nonres tags offered for high demand units this doesn't leave any tags for the programs that outfitters/landowners are teaming up to rob from the public draw! I can pretty much guarantee that's why outfitters have given up chase for 90/10 for e/d/a... Outfitters aren't dumb....they realize they will lose clients with 90/10.
If you cut nonres tags in 1/2 with 90/10 there are only around 0 to 2 tags that are currently offered to nonres with current quotas. 90/10 leaves 0 to 1 total tags available in the public draw......outfitters would starve! Outfitters are pooling up with landowners to figure out other strategies to take tags from Wyo res.....I can guarantee it! Wyo res are where outfitters have potential for robbing a larger chunk and pool of tags.
Think about it Buzz. If you are an outfitter would you figure out strategies to take 1 or 2 tags from the tiny pool of high demand limited nonres tag quotas or from the hundreds of tags currently issued to Wyo res? That's exactly why they gave up the handful of Big 5 tags and aren't interested in 90/10 for d/e/a.
Outfitters/landowners are suger-coating things to make it sound like they are opening up private land to public hunters so they have access to chunks of e/d/a resident tags. If you don't like RFW in Colo you may be faced with something similar in Wyo! There is the chance it could be on an even bigger scale in Wyo.
You are being blind-sided if you don't believe outfitters/landowners are strategizing to rob Wyo res of tags! Colo res didn't believe this could happen and sure enough it did!
Maybe you should have spent more time worrying about Colorado.Buzz,
I understand completely that landowner tags either come from res or nonres pools separately off the top of the pile of tags prior to the draw. That's how it works now but could easily be changed. The current landowner tag system is a total joke and isn't functioning like it was designed. I bet anything the current landowner system will be changed soon!
The question is...where are all the tags outfitters/landowners are requesting come from? When there are 0 to 2 total nonres tags offered for high demand units this doesn't leave any tags for the programs that outfitters/landowners are teaming up to rob from the public draw! I can pretty much guarantee that's why outfitters have given up chase for 90/10 for e/d/a... Outfitters aren't dumb....they realize they will lose clients with 90/10.
If you cut nonres tags in 1/2 with 90/10 there are only around 0 to 2 tags that are currently offered to nonres with current quotas. 90/10 leaves 0 to 1 total tags available in the public draw......outfitters would starve! Outfitters are pooling up with landowners to figure out other strategies to take tags from Wyo res.....I can guarantee it! Wyo res are where outfitters have potential for robbing a larger chunk and pool of tags.
Think about it Buzz. If you are an outfitter would you figure out strategies to take 1 or 2 tags from the tiny pool of high demand limited nonres tag quotas or from the hundreds of tags currently issued to Wyo res? That's exactly why they gave up the handful of Big 5 tags and aren't interested in 90/10 for d/e/a.
Outfitters/landowners are suger-coating things to make it sound like they are opening up private land to public hunters so they have access to chunks of e/d/a resident tags. If you don't like RFW in Colo you may be faced with something similar in Wyo! There is the chance it could be on an even bigger scale in Wyo.
You are being blind-sided if you don't believe outfitters/landowners are strategizing to rob Wyo res of tags! Colo res didn't believe this could happen and sure enough it did!
90/10 in Wyoming cannot be compared to 90/10 in other states.
Yes, looking forward to this !! ?Please explain.....
So if I get you right, because residents have general elk & deer opportunity, they should be ok with giving a higher % of LQ tags to NR than most other states do?Every Wyoming resident can hunt elk, deer, and arguably antelope every year. No other state that has a 90/10 quota even remotely offers such access. Not a bad thing, just hard to compare to other 90/10 states.
Not at all.....I am all for whatever Wyoming chooses to do within their state. Just that WY going to 90/10 is not the same as the other 90/10 states is all.So if I get you right, because residents have general elk & deer opportunity, they should be ok with giving a higher % of LQ tags to NR than most other states do?
I'm not going to read anything into what you are saying here, but no state is like the other completely.Not at all.....I am all for whatever Wyoming chooses to do within their state. Just that WY going to 90/10 is not the same as the other 90/10 states is all.
Every Wyoming resident can hunt elk, deer, and arguably antelope every year. No other state that has a 90/10 quota even remotely offers such access. Not a bad thing, just hard to compare to other 90/10 states.
Maybe he's saying our quality of hunting is better hunting than other states ?
Living in Wyoming isn't easy. I much rather live somewhere with good weather and no wind. But then again, I don't want to draw for 10% or 5% (if the outfitters get their way) of the tags if I move away.Just a simple observation men, no more, no less.
MontanaEvery Wyoming resident can hunt elk, deer, and arguably antelope every year. No other state that has a 90/10 quota even remotely offers such access. Not a bad thing, just hard to compare to other 90/10 states.
IdahoEvery Wyoming resident can hunt elk, deer, and arguably antelope every year. No other state that has a 90/10 quota even remotely offers such access. Not a bad thing, just hard to compare to other 90/10 states.
This is just another GREAT reason for other states with LESS opportunity to follow Wyoming's lead and enact restrictions on NR hunters that provide MORE, guaranteed opportunity for the people who actually live in the state. I'm starting to see some momentum picking up in Nevada to head things this way.Well Not sure if they will get 90/10 on DEA but if they do I’m sure it won’t make a diff from other states!! Sure see lots of guys saying they got unsuccessful draws in Utah Nevada ect ., ?
I think anyone here fighting for more resident opportunity in Wyoming can respect this commentThis is just another GREAT reason for other states with LESS opportunity to follow Wyoming's lead and enact restrictions on NR hunters that provide MORE, guaranteed opportunity for the people who actually live in the state. I'm starting to see some momentum picking up in Nevada to head things this way.
A concerned resident voiced his opinion at the quota meeting about a unit where it was proposed to cut resident tags making them equal to the number of NR tags offered, 50/50 split. The board considered his comment and the tags were placed back in the resident pool.
I like hunting in Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, Colorado, and other states but I like hunting in Nevada the best. That's one of the reasons I live here. I'll relentlessly fight for more opportunity in my own state and completely understand and support others that do the same.------SS
The problem with the kids in other states is they don't want to hunt. They have no mentor for the most part. 50% of the parents are divorced it seems.As I’ve been saying all along, our hunting heritage across the Western US is headed in a horrible place. Opportunity is being lost each year for those that don’t live in a Western State. The saddest part is youth across the east, Midwest, and south won’t have the opportunity to hunt like many of us had growing up and will lose interest in hunting the West!
The problem with the kids in other states is they don't want to hunt. They have no mentor for the most part. 50% of the parents are divorced it seems.
Oh bullchit...kids in the Midwest, south, and east have wayyyy more opportunities than the preceding generation.As I’ve been saying all along, our hunting heritage across the Western US is headed in a horrible place. Opportunity is being lost each year for those that don’t live in a Western State. The saddest part is youth across the east, Midwest, and south won’t have the opportunity to hunt like many of us had growing up and will lose interest in hunting the West!
I think you got it backward......Just this year, I was thinking about which midwest state I would have to travel to for my son to hunt his first eligible year next year. Through connections at work, I was looking at OTC opportunities in both Nebraska and Texas.As I’ve been saying all along, our hunting heritage across the Western US is headed in a horrible place. Opportunity is being lost each year for those that don’t live in a Western State. The saddest part is youth across the east, Midwest, and south won’t have the opportunity to hunt like many of us had growing up and will lose interest in hunting the West!
I have in-laws in Wisconsin. Don’t know if it is still this way or not. But they use to have to kill 5 does before they could get a buck tag. They have a dairy and it might only be in their area.Oh bullchit...kids in the Midwest, south, and east have wayyyy more opportunities than the preceding generation.
This traveling, apply for every western state, NR hunter is a recent trend.
Go look at past draw odds in the west. Talk to people from the Midwest, go look at hunting regulations then and now in those places. One of my best friends is from Wisconsin still lives there. When he started hunting, you had to draw a doe tag. Same place now, he can buy a pocketful of doe tags for next to nothing.
Once again Sebastian, you just don't have a clue...there's a metric chit ton of youth opportunity in the west, east, south, Midwest....wayyyy more than when I started hunting.
The two of these things are very different. Public lands are owned and controlled by the citizens of the United States of America. Game animals are owned and controlled by the citizens of the individual states.How about hunting opportunity for nonres diy/oyo hunters on the billions of public land acres throughout the West?
100%!!! Well said. I wish jims would read your reply but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t read anyone’s response.Lets fix opportunity for hunters that actually live in the western states before we worry about "the younger generation of hunters that don't live in the states where these species exist."
I have a hard time feeling bad about "opportunity throughout the west closing it's doors" to nonres hunters when I can only hunt my own state every few years and my own son who is growing up here will likely never get to hunt sheep, moose, goats, and all the fancy stuff.
I'm not trying to be harsh or unsympathetic but my opinion stands firm that EXTREME preference should be shown to resident hunters of each state. Too many internet heros and Youtube influencers have everyone thinking that you have to run around hunting 5+ tags per year in multiple states to have opportunity. The resource can't take the pressure. There is not enough to go around and there never will be. Opportunity will always be limited and residents should get the first and the best in my opinion. Learn to appreciate hunting where you live if hunting is not important enough for you to live where you like to hunt. -----SS
Yep, hunting opportunity is fine in many eastern, southern, and Midwest states. How about hunting opportunity for nonres diy/oyo hunters on the billions of public land acres throughout the West?
I’ll stick to my guns with what I mentioned that we are losing our hunting heritage in the Western US. There obviously are sheep, moose, mtn goat, mule deer, elk, and pronghorn that are pretty much non-existent in most east, south, and Midwest states. The doors are closing on those species for the younger generation of hunters that don’t live in states where these species exist. It’s sad to see nonres opportunity throughout the West closing it’s doors to public diy/oyo hunters.
I understand completely what you are saying. I agree that residents of each Western state should have advantages over nonres.
Wyo is a prime example of residents having incredible opportunity with what they currently have. Ask Buzz how many big game tags him and his wife draw each year? God knows you've seen his wave of annual photos. Now that's a heck of a lot of opportunity....and that's not enough?
Wyo offers it's residents: General deer and elk tags that can be hunted each and every year, great draw odds for limited elk, deer, and antelope, and the opportunity to harvest multiple big game animals with doe, cow, and other tags. It just seems a little funky that Wyo res want even more opportunity by slicing nonres tags? There are SO FEW tags issued to nonres that cutting nonres opportunity in 1/2 with 90/10 in reality does almost nothing statistically to improve res draw odds. We've gone around and around in circles on this! There aren't that many high demand tags issued to nonres in the first place and Wyo res aren't going to all of a sudden start drawing more tags with 90/10! Yes, there would be a lucky few res that draw but at the expense of every nonres that has devoted years and $ to the pref pt system! Suddenly nonres chances are cut in 1/2 while only a handful of Wyo res will be impacted. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense! WG&F revenue will also be impacted!
I've shared points with quite a few fathers and sons over the years. We've shared incredible experiences and harvested some dandy bucks! The smiles on their faces at the end of their hunts told the whole story!
Let us know when Sebastian gets up there and speaks...BuzzH just commented and opposed the 40% outfitter draw.
I heard he never defended DIY NR. Hmmm
If residents want 90-10 in exchange for the entire 40% of special nr tags...the outfitters would take it in a minute
Same thing as last time, thought technology was better lol, wished I could make them all in person would be best but not gonna happen !!So was anything decided today? I tried to watch online but the sound sucked so bad I gave up.
It's pretty easy you have to have enough guide days under your belt, a place to hunt and a good business plan haha@DoubleDropMuley im going to burn my WY deer points next year. Better tell your nephew to get in shape. Backpack region H hunt for 10 days. You should come along, I’ll pack your cane you old man.
I hope the outfitter draw doesn’t happen but so be it if it does. I might have to look into what it takes to be a WY outfitter ?
I wonder if any NM outfitters testified about the number of hunters circumventing the outfitter draw??It's pretty easy you have to have enough guide days under your belt, a place to hunt and a good business plan haha
@DoubleDropMuley im going to burn my WY deer points next year. Better tell your nephew to get in shape. Backpack region H hunt for 10 days. You should come along, I’ll pack your cane you old man.
I hope the outfitter draw doesn’t happen but so be it if it does. I might have to look into what it takes to be a WY outfitter ?
Sometimes the most difficult part of a guided hunt is matching the client with the right guide. There is no doubt this guy is the right guide for our buddy in CO. Let’s welcome Cheatgrass Outfitters first guide, Lenny Pepperbottom:Why not "sebastians outdoor fantasies"?
Why not be a outstanding non resident and share your points with someone.
If your gonna take that old grump on a hunt you might have to get him one of those little motorized carts from Walmart ???@DoubleDropMuley im going to burn my WY deer points next year. Better tell your nephew to get in shape. Backpack region H hunt for 10 days. You should come along, I’ll pack your cane you old man.
I hope the outfitter draw doesn’t happen but so be it if it does. I might have to look into what it takes to be a WY outfitter ?
@SS! Hell yeah burn those points!! Between the 2 of ya should be able to just pack me to the top and forget the cane!! 10 days hope ya can pack enough Dr Pepper for me?, ya I don’t think anyone wants outfitter draw or more landowner tags !!@DoubleDropMuley im going to burn my WY deer points next year. Better tell your nephew to get in shape. Backpack region H hunt for 10 days. You should come along, I’ll pack your cane you old man.
I hope the outfitter draw doesn’t happen but so be it if it does. I might have to look into what it takes to be a WY outfitter ?
I hope he ties it down better than a 4 wheeler in back of that dodge. You know what, I’ll handle tying it down...If your gonna take that old grump on a hunt you might have to get him one of those little motorized carts from Walmart ???
Please tell them to add a turbo, I think we need mountain outlaws instead of street !!If your gonna take that old grump on a hunt you might have to get him one of those little motorized carts from Walmart ???
It sucks, we knew this was the direction the Task Force would take given the make up. Nearly everyone on the task force benefits from screwing over DIY guys, both resident and NR. Please keep us updated and let us know what they move forward with so that we can fight it and let the powers that be our opposition.The task force is cutting deals this morning...and nrs are on the menu.
Care to elaborate at all? I can't find a way to listen in.The task force is cutting deals this morning...and nrs are on the menu.
Sure, 40% of all NR tags are being proposed to be set aside for outfitter draw.Care to elaborate at all? I can't find a way to listen in.
The task force is cutting deals this morning...and nrs are on the menu.
I agree. Why in heck won't they even talk about the resident roll over into the NR draw?I would rather it stay 80/20 then see outfitters get anything. Not the right direction to go in my opinion.
?I agree. Why in heck won't they even talk about the resident roll over into the NR draw?
Keep quotas the same as is now but do a resident leftover draw before the NR draw.
There is public comment available in person or via Zoom. Ask them.I agree. Why in heck won't they even talk about the resident roll over into the NR draw?
Keep quotas the same as is now but do a resident leftover draw before the NR draw.
I don’t think G&F wants it because non resident tags bring in lots more cash. Audio wasn’t great but I thought I heard Nesvik saying how it’ll be hard to give residents a head start on the left over tags. Anyone really believe that? If that is the case they need some new folks running the website. Its all about the cash.I agree. Why in heck won't they even talk about the resident roll over into the NR draw?
Keep quotas the same as is now but do a resident leftover draw before the NR draw.
I literally just got on here to type that.Anyone heard from Sebastian?
If he listened to the last two days of the task force, somebody may want to do a wellness check.
I literally just got on here to type that.
I called the psychiatric ward in CO and they said they haven’t seen him in two weeks but they said he’s usually busy this time of year trying to fleece points from people*.
*in all seriousness mental illness is no joke. If you find yourself fixated on what another state does for its tag allocations please seek help immediately. There are resources out there to help you through this.
Joking?I thought I was bad picking/joking with people, but you guys take it to a whole new level. Remind me to never get on your bad side.
Joking?
Your understanding of the TF is limited at best. Its literally the first paragraph on the home page.From what I understand, the original focus of the task force was to provide opportunity to Wyo resident hunters?
I didn’t read your reply because likely it’s a cut and paste from one of your other posts but I just wanted to say I’m glad you’re still here. I would of said I’m glad you’re ok but we both know that’s not true ?*From what I understand, the original focus of the task force was to provide opportunity to Wyo resident hunters? It's pretty clear that the current and overwhelming focus of the task force is outfitter and landowner interests at the expense of public hunters. It certainly is sad to see DIY/OYO public resident and nonresident hunters treated so unjustly.
Cutting nonres tags in 1/2 with 90/10 plus an additional 40% for outfitter contract clients seems a bit extreme? That only leaves close to 1/4 of the current nonres tags available in the nonres public pool. The question that should be asked, "how many nonres that apply for tags each year actually hire outfitters once tags are drawn? Is it 40% of total nonres that apply?
The outfitters idea that 40% of nonres tags should be issued to nonres that sign outfitter contracts is stab in the back to nonres that have devoted years to applying for the high demand limited tag system and supporting the WG&F with high pref pt and license fees.
That struck me as crazy... We need to force NR into regional system to eliminate crowding but we also need to eliminate the cap and have a 1000 more + NR general tags?I read a summary of the meeting last night, one of the main bullet points was to eliminate crowding from non resident hunters. Another main bullet point was to get rid of the non resident cap on general elk tags and potentially increase it by 1000 tags. Why do I get the feeling someone’s disgruntled ex wife was running that meeting? #youcantwin ???
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.