Ok still a little new to the BH209 when you guys say 90 or 100 grains of 209 i take it that you use a regular grain scale like a rcbs or such. I tried the old blackpowder brass click out style measure and its not even close in equvilent grains. So I guess you have to measure each load and put it in a speed loader. So how do you go to the range and shoot for a while,do you carry like 20 speed loaders pre made up at home? thanks Casper
how to measure BH 209
- Thread starter casper31
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-10 AT 06:35AM (MST)[p]Isn't volume the standard instead of weight of the powder? I use the old brass click style measuring device. Am I wrong to do so? I have my speed loaders already made up--should I be making changes in my charge? Leaving for the muzzle loader season in Colorado this coming Wednesday. Cowtag
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Sagebrush1
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-10 AT 06:43AM (MST)[p]black powder and smokeless powder are different. black powder is measured using the blackpowder brass style measure usually in they range in 10 grains increments. Ie 50, 60 ,70 and so forth up to 120 grains.
never weigh black powder on a scale used for smokeless powder, because you do not know what you are doing.
as for the range you will have to weigh each load as you shoot. with the black powder measure, it is just how its done
you need to read this information in this link before you kill yourself.
http://hunting.about.com/od/blackpowder/ht/htloadbprifle.htm
never weigh black powder on a scale used for smokeless powder, because you do not know what you are doing.
as for the range you will have to weigh each load as you shoot. with the black powder measure, it is just how its done
you need to read this information in this link before you kill yourself.
http://hunting.about.com/od/blackpowder/ht/htloadbprifle.htm
txhunter58
Long Time Member
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Cowtag, you are fine! You only need to worry about volume, not actual weight.
When you hear of someone using 100 gr of black powder or blackpowder substitute (777, pyrodex, BH 209) they are NOT talking about actual weight, they are talking VOLUME measurments.
So,just set your blackpowder measure to 100 gr (if that is what you use) and measure out the powder and shoot. Doesn't matter which of the powders you are using.
THAT SAID: some people want to be more consistent and will measure out their loads, BUT IT WON'T BE 100 GR OF WEIGHT.
For instance: 100 gr (volume equivalent) of BH 209 weighs about 71 gr on a scale. So if you really want to measure loads, you can measure 71 gr to be what everyone is talking about as a 100 gr load.
If you were target shooting, that might make a difference, but for hunting, I have not seen it make that much difference. BH is such a consitently sized powder, you get a very consistent amount each time without weighing it.
So, as sagebrush alludes, to: if you were wanting to use a 120 gr load of BH 209 and you weighed that much out on a scale and shot it....... you could blow something up.
I own 4 blackpowder rifles and have been shooting/hunting for over 20 years and I have never weighed a charge.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
When you hear of someone using 100 gr of black powder or blackpowder substitute (777, pyrodex, BH 209) they are NOT talking about actual weight, they are talking VOLUME measurments.
So,just set your blackpowder measure to 100 gr (if that is what you use) and measure out the powder and shoot. Doesn't matter which of the powders you are using.
THAT SAID: some people want to be more consistent and will measure out their loads, BUT IT WON'T BE 100 GR OF WEIGHT.
For instance: 100 gr (volume equivalent) of BH 209 weighs about 71 gr on a scale. So if you really want to measure loads, you can measure 71 gr to be what everyone is talking about as a 100 gr load.
If you were target shooting, that might make a difference, but for hunting, I have not seen it make that much difference. BH is such a consitently sized powder, you get a very consistent amount each time without weighing it.
So, as sagebrush alludes, to: if you were wanting to use a 120 gr load of BH 209 and you weighed that much out on a scale and shot it....... you could blow something up.
I own 4 blackpowder rifles and have been shooting/hunting for over 20 years and I have never weighed a charge.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
The blackpowder substitutes have different densities than each other and black powder (I think Pyrodex has like 30% less volumetric density than black powder) and are designed to be loaded with blackpowder volumetric equivilants. All published load data is based on blackpowder volumetric equivilants. Weigh a sudstitute without knowing the density ratios (which may or may not be controled lot to lot even in the same substitute) and you have no idea what you are doing...you could be loading a 50% overload.
Go to the load data for Blackhorn209, or any other substitute...Note that they ALL say something like "Volumetric Units", not weight.
http://blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/b209muzzleloaderdata.pdf
http://blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/b209muzzleloaderdata.pdf
LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-10 AT 08:55PM (MST)[p]You can always throw volume charges and weigh them on a powder scale. Come up with an average weight and use that for load development.
100 gr volume does not equal 100 gr by weight
I weigh all of my charges using BP substitutes these days. Some people can throw volume charges constantly but I sure can't. My groups dropped a lot when I started weighing the charges.
When I go to the range I have a bunch of vials pre-measured with 100, 105, 110, 115, and 120 gr increments of BH209. Keep notes on how each shoot and it's pretty easy. I make speed loaders with bullet/sabot and the gun's favorite charge and keep 25 of them in a plastic shotshell box.
100 gr volume does not equal 100 gr by weight
I weigh all of my charges using BP substitutes these days. Some people can throw volume charges constantly but I sure can't. My groups dropped a lot when I started weighing the charges.
When I go to the range I have a bunch of vials pre-measured with 100, 105, 110, 115, and 120 gr increments of BH209. Keep notes on how each shoot and it's pretty easy. I make speed loaders with bullet/sabot and the gun's favorite charge and keep 25 of them in a plastic shotshell box.
Wow I just got done with a weekend of shooting and I weighed all charges on a grain scale of my BH209 and settled on a load of 95 grains weighed with a powerbelt platnium 270 grain 1 and 1/2" groups at a 100 yards .
Im a little afraid now that you guys set me straight on what im doing wrong. how many grains am i really shooting? Yikes the cva accura handled it fine but now im thinking the bullet wont handle the 2186 average velocity and im overloaded.back to my click brass measurment tool. thank you guys for setting me straight before i tried anything higher.Casper
Im a little afraid now that you guys set me straight on what im doing wrong. how many grains am i really shooting? Yikes the cva accura handled it fine but now im thinking the bullet wont handle the 2186 average velocity and im overloaded.back to my click brass measurment tool. thank you guys for setting me straight before i tried anything higher.Casper
txhunter58
Long Time Member
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If my math is correct, you used the equivalent of 134 gr of powder. That is a stout load! I would not use anything that high. I would supsect even the platinum would come apart at that speed when it hit an animal.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
Bambistew
Very Active Member
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The Platinum comes apart with a 90-100gr of 777... and an elk shoulder. Shoot 460gr No Excusses, problem solved. :-D
As noted above measuer by volume, and always use the same measureing device. I bought a few speed loaders a couple weeks ago that are off by 10-30 grains. The brass click measurer says 90gr and what I worked up my load with, one speed loader says 100 the other says 120. When at the range, I use a small flask to fill my brass charge measurer for each shot. The only time I use speed loaders is to practice, "speed loading" and for hunting.
If you're just getting into muzzle loading I would recomend finding a couple books and reading them cover to cover. Its not particularly complicated by any means, but having a broad understanding of all types of muzzleloading is not a bad thing.
As noted above measuer by volume, and always use the same measureing device. I bought a few speed loaders a couple weeks ago that are off by 10-30 grains. The brass click measurer says 90gr and what I worked up my load with, one speed loader says 100 the other says 120. When at the range, I use a small flask to fill my brass charge measurer for each shot. The only time I use speed loaders is to practice, "speed loading" and for hunting.
If you're just getting into muzzle loading I would recomend finding a couple books and reading them cover to cover. Its not particularly complicated by any means, but having a broad understanding of all types of muzzleloading is not a bad thing.
mevertsen
Very Active Member
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Agreed with the others. When I am just shooting, and working up loads, I use a round brass measure and pour out of the flask for each shot.
I do have speed loaders which only get used the last couple weeks before a hunt to practice that, and when hunting. They are prepared using that same brass measure that I practice with.
I never weigh charges for muzzle loaders.
Later,
Marcial
I do have speed loaders which only get used the last couple weeks before a hunt to practice that, and when hunting. They are prepared using that same brass measure that I practice with.
I never weigh charges for muzzle loaders.
Later,
Marcial
