slamdunk
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- 10,404
How To Save Hunting
- Thread starter slamdunk
- Start date
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,816
The Deer Hunting in TARDville has been going Down Hill Since 1972!
But They Just keep giving More Opportunity!
Even Though the Deer Numbers Are NOT there like they Claim!
It Takes 2 to 4 Years To Draw a General PISSCUTTER Tag!
Most Younger Youth are Smart enough to Figure that Deal out!
The Current Points Game We're Playing surely Don't Entice Youth when it comes to Big Game Hunting!
A Youth Just in to the Game & about 25 Points Down in the Game before they get Started!
No,Not everybody in the State can Hunt every Year!
There's Too Many TARDS!
Yes there is Hunting besides Deer/Big Game!
Oh,Did I Mention How PISS POOR the Pheasant Hunting is in TARDville?
That Ought To Entice the Youth as Well!
The Fishing is & Has been on Down Hill Slide in this state for Quite some time!
Yes,You can still catch Fish but JUDAS!
Most TARDS Excluding the Good/Trophy Hunters in this State wanna take something Home with them every time they go out!
Our Deer Herd Proves the POOR Management Ain't cuttin it & Has for many Decades only getting worse by the Year!
SWEAR TO GAWD,It would Take Change so Harsh the Average TARD ain't gonna Vote for it to Improve things!
I Don't know the Answers but it's Past DAMN Time for Major Change!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
But They Just keep giving More Opportunity!
Even Though the Deer Numbers Are NOT there like they Claim!
It Takes 2 to 4 Years To Draw a General PISSCUTTER Tag!
Most Younger Youth are Smart enough to Figure that Deal out!
The Current Points Game We're Playing surely Don't Entice Youth when it comes to Big Game Hunting!
A Youth Just in to the Game & about 25 Points Down in the Game before they get Started!
No,Not everybody in the State can Hunt every Year!
There's Too Many TARDS!
Yes there is Hunting besides Deer/Big Game!
Oh,Did I Mention How PISS POOR the Pheasant Hunting is in TARDville?
That Ought To Entice the Youth as Well!
The Fishing is & Has been on Down Hill Slide in this state for Quite some time!
Yes,You can still catch Fish but JUDAS!
Most TARDS Excluding the Good/Trophy Hunters in this State wanna take something Home with them every time they go out!
Our Deer Herd Proves the POOR Management Ain't cuttin it & Has for many Decades only getting worse by the Year!
SWEAR TO GAWD,It would Take Change so Harsh the Average TARD ain't gonna Vote for it to Improve things!
I Don't know the Answers but it's Past DAMN Time for Major Change!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,404
It's no secret I am all for making some serious changes.
We do currently have some youth and mentoring programs in place and I am on the fence about those because of the additional pressure these early season hunts put on our big game, but we have got to get our youth more involved and away from violent, life wasting video games and more in touch with the outdoors.
When I grew up, I couldn't wait to turn 16 years old so I could go hunting with my brand new open sighted H&R single shot 30-30, we didn't have any special youth programs whatsoever, and I learned and earned my Hunters Safety blue card right in my 5th grade classroom along with all my other classmates.
I may look into doing a "Hunter Recruitment" seminar this winter and run it through Sportsman's Warehouse.
I have all the resources I would need to teach hunting, field dressing, camping, outdoor cooking, outdoor clothing, footwear, optics and glassing tips and basic shooting skills to prep for hunters safety courses.
Just a thought...
We do currently have some youth and mentoring programs in place and I am on the fence about those because of the additional pressure these early season hunts put on our big game, but we have got to get our youth more involved and away from violent, life wasting video games and more in touch with the outdoors.
When I grew up, I couldn't wait to turn 16 years old so I could go hunting with my brand new open sighted H&R single shot 30-30, we didn't have any special youth programs whatsoever, and I learned and earned my Hunters Safety blue card right in my 5th grade classroom along with all my other classmates.
I may look into doing a "Hunter Recruitment" seminar this winter and run it through Sportsman's Warehouse.
I have all the resources I would need to teach hunting, field dressing, camping, outdoor cooking, outdoor clothing, footwear, optics and glassing tips and basic shooting skills to prep for hunters safety courses.
Just a thought...
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,816
I Hear Ya PUNK!
Same Here!
It took forever for 16 to show up!
But We all Managed at the time!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Same Here!
It took forever for 16 to show up!
But We all Managed at the time!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
RSC68
Member
- Messages
- 34
+1
I can relate. I am 70 years old which obviously makes me a "baby boomer". I started tagging along with my Dad before I was able to buy a license at age 12. I could hardly wait to get my first rifle at age 16 and start hunting. Been at it ever since. I have 2 sons and 2 grandsons who hunt, but I agree that we need to get more recruits into hunting and enjoying the outdoors. I have a step-son who is 27 that still watches videos on his phone all the time when not working....what a waste of time. I think if everyone who loves to hunt, camp, fish, and just enjoy the great outdoors would take a non-hunter along and mentor them in a positive way, it might just make a huge difference not only in their lives but also in the hunting population as a whole. Don't know how to solve the declining numbers of mule deer and the politics that obviously affect the allotment of tags, but with the other species that are available to hunt most every year, we can make a difference. Just my 2 cents worth.
I can relate. I am 70 years old which obviously makes me a "baby boomer". I started tagging along with my Dad before I was able to buy a license at age 12. I could hardly wait to get my first rifle at age 16 and start hunting. Been at it ever since. I have 2 sons and 2 grandsons who hunt, but I agree that we need to get more recruits into hunting and enjoying the outdoors. I have a step-son who is 27 that still watches videos on his phone all the time when not working....what a waste of time. I think if everyone who loves to hunt, camp, fish, and just enjoy the great outdoors would take a non-hunter along and mentor them in a positive way, it might just make a huge difference not only in their lives but also in the hunting population as a whole. Don't know how to solve the declining numbers of mule deer and the politics that obviously affect the allotment of tags, but with the other species that are available to hunt most every year, we can make a difference. Just my 2 cents worth.
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,354
So lately I've noticed a few " wannabe" hunters post on this forum about how to get into hunting, with relatively few responses form forum members.
It's easy for us to point fingers, but the bottom line is all of us need to actively recruit. I reached out today to my non-hunting son-in-law about getting him and my grandson out on a hunt in the near future. Good luck Slammy, and may the rest of us do our part.
I suspect some are reluctant to add more applicants to the drawing odds???
It's easy for us to point fingers, but the bottom line is all of us need to actively recruit. I reached out today to my non-hunting son-in-law about getting him and my grandson out on a hunt in the near future. Good luck Slammy, and may the rest of us do our part.
I suspect some are reluctant to add more applicants to the drawing odds???
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,404
>I suspect some are reluctant to
>add more applicants to the
>drawing odds???
Oh there will be indeed.
Having said that, I feel the consensus is the lack of deer to be the biggest complaint more so than too many hunters.
I'll have to look up the actual numbers, but if my memory serves me correctly, there are far less permits sold in Utah now than years past.
>add more applicants to the
>drawing odds???
Oh there will be indeed.
Having said that, I feel the consensus is the lack of deer to be the biggest complaint more so than too many hunters.
I'll have to look up the actual numbers, but if my memory serves me correctly, there are far less permits sold in Utah now than years past.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,816
>>I suspect some are reluctant to
>>add more applicants to the
>>drawing odds???
>
>Oh there will be indeed.
>Having said that, I feel the
>consensus is the lack of
>deer to be the biggest
>complaint more so than too
>many hunters.
>
>
>I'll have to look up the
>actual numbers, but if my
>memory serves me correctly, there
>are far less permits sold
>in Utah now than years
>past.
True!
And By Far Less Deer!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>add more applicants to the
>>drawing odds???
>
>Oh there will be indeed.
>Having said that, I feel the
>consensus is the lack of
>deer to be the biggest
>complaint more so than too
>many hunters.
>
>
>I'll have to look up the
>actual numbers, but if my
>memory serves me correctly, there
>are far less permits sold
>in Utah now than years
>past.
True!
And By Far Less Deer!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Aceman
Active Member
- Messages
- 191
I am curious if part of the low population of deer and elk may have something to do with the number of seasons - Here in Colorado the hunting starts in August and, with short breaks, continues to the end of January. The animals don't get a lot of rest and are also hunted during the rut. When I started hunting in Colorado there was only a two week season and there were on occasion a late season. I know the population in Colorado was much smaller then but not sure how the number of hunters compared to now. I assume that the DOW takes that into consideration. Not saying the seasons will be the answer, just throwing it out for thoughts Also find it interesting that the Message "I'm Done" confirms that the older hunters are getting less able to hunt like they use to hunt.
eelgrass
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 31,592
If you want to recruit new hunters, forget about deer, and elk for that matter. Start out squirrel or rabbit hunting. Do some duck hunting and quail or grouse hunting. Hunt some jack rabbits and ground squirrels. Do lots of shooting and walking out in the woods. Do some camping and fishing. Set some rat traps in the back yard. Put them in contact with nature and teach them to be a hunter first.
Let the big game hunting come as a natural progression, and let them figure that out on their own. Don't start at the top.
And try to pair them up with a friend around their age so they can feel a bond with them. Pretty soon the two or 3 buddies will take the ball and run with it. That's when you know you've succeeded.
I cringe when I hear a parent say something like "My 12 year old daughter has been dreaming of this sheep tag since she was 4."
Let the big game hunting come as a natural progression, and let them figure that out on their own. Don't start at the top.
And try to pair them up with a friend around their age so they can feel a bond with them. Pretty soon the two or 3 buddies will take the ball and run with it. That's when you know you've succeeded.
I cringe when I hear a parent say something like "My 12 year old daughter has been dreaming of this sheep tag since she was 4."
Broadside_Shot
Active Member
- Messages
- 590
I wish it was as simple as Recruiting People = Saved Hunting.
There are so many factors that come into play in our Hunting World.
I think the Number One, First and Foremost Importance to hunting is the Animal we hunt. There has to be enough of the Game Species you hunt to be able to find balance and create a balance.
If you have 50,000 Pheasant hunters in the Uinta Basin but only 5 rooster pheasants, well you get my point.
Money has become such an Important Factor in today's Hunting World that it is Almost Impossible to make Serious and Necessary changes. And if it keeps going the same way, it WILL become impossible to fix and hunting the way we knew it will be no more.
There are so many factors that come into play in our Hunting World.
I think the Number One, First and Foremost Importance to hunting is the Animal we hunt. There has to be enough of the Game Species you hunt to be able to find balance and create a balance.
If you have 50,000 Pheasant hunters in the Uinta Basin but only 5 rooster pheasants, well you get my point.
Money has become such an Important Factor in today's Hunting World that it is Almost Impossible to make Serious and Necessary changes. And if it keeps going the same way, it WILL become impossible to fix and hunting the way we knew it will be no more.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,404
Aceman
I agree.
Utah's hunting starts in August and goes pretty much non-stop to the end of October, and into November on some units.
Also, in Utahs central regional units there is an extremely popular ATV trail system (Paiute Trail) that goes through several mountains ranges and consists of thousands of miles of spring, summer and fall recreational rides and even snowmobiling in the winter months.
And now dirtbiking (trail bikes) trails are riddled throughout our more remote forested areas and it's popularity is growing rapidly.
Problem there is Forest Service is federal and they cater to recreation, not hunting.
I once either read or heard that when a fawn is born near a road or trail and is bothered multiple times by human presence, the doe will abandon her fawn(s).
True or not, constant human pressure in our mountains is more prevalent today than ever before and we have no choice but to learn to deal with it.
I agree.
Utah's hunting starts in August and goes pretty much non-stop to the end of October, and into November on some units.
Also, in Utahs central regional units there is an extremely popular ATV trail system (Paiute Trail) that goes through several mountains ranges and consists of thousands of miles of spring, summer and fall recreational rides and even snowmobiling in the winter months.
And now dirtbiking (trail bikes) trails are riddled throughout our more remote forested areas and it's popularity is growing rapidly.
Problem there is Forest Service is federal and they cater to recreation, not hunting.
I once either read or heard that when a fawn is born near a road or trail and is bothered multiple times by human presence, the doe will abandon her fawn(s).
True or not, constant human pressure in our mountains is more prevalent today than ever before and we have no choice but to learn to deal with it.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,816
>I wish it was as simple
>as Recruiting People = Saved
>Hunting.
>
>There are so many factors that
>come into play in our
>Hunting World.
>
>I think the Number One, First
>and Foremost Importance to hunting
>is the Animal we hunt.
> There has to be
>enough of the Game Species
>you hunt to be able
>to find balance and create
>a balance.
>
>If you have 50,000 Pheasant hunters
>in the Uinta Basin but
>only 5 rooster pheasants, well
>you get my point.
Hey JS!
You Sure there are 5 Roosters in the Basin?
>
>Money has become such an Important
>Factor in today's Hunting World
>that it is Almost Impossible
>to make Serious and Necessary
>changes. And if it
>keeps going the same way,
>it WILL become impossible to
>fix and hunting the way
>we knew it will be
>no more.
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>as Recruiting People = Saved
>Hunting.
>
>There are so many factors that
>come into play in our
>Hunting World.
>
>I think the Number One, First
>and Foremost Importance to hunting
>is the Animal we hunt.
> There has to be
>enough of the Game Species
>you hunt to be able
>to find balance and create
>a balance.
>
>If you have 50,000 Pheasant hunters
>in the Uinta Basin but
>only 5 rooster pheasants, well
>you get my point.
Hey JS!
You Sure there are 5 Roosters in the Basin?
>
>Money has become such an Important
>Factor in today's Hunting World
>that it is Almost Impossible
>to make Serious and Necessary
>changes. And if it
>keeps going the same way,
>it WILL become impossible to
>fix and hunting the way
>we knew it will be
>no more.
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Broadside_Shot
Active Member
- Messages
- 590
Bess, give or take one or two...
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,816
Probably Not since Season opened this weekend!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Very few youth will take up hunting if at least one of their parents doesn't take them. Parents won't go if it isn't any fun anymore. Tardville has done everything it can to take the fun out of the hunt, with choose your weapon, pick your ridge (unit) and stick with it, and point creep. It is pretty daunting for old and young alike.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,404
>Very few youth will take up
>hunting if at least one
>of their parents doesn't take
>them. Parents won't go
>if it isn't any fun
>anymore. Tardville has done
>everything it can to take
>the fun out of the
>hunt, with choose your weapon,
>pick your ridge (unit) and
>stick with it, and point
>creep. It is pretty
>daunting for old and young
>alike.
I couldn't agree more with this.
They ripped the "family tradition" away when they went to statewide draw system and our school systems eliminated the UEA that was always on the general deer hunt weekend.
>hunting if at least one
>of their parents doesn't take
>them. Parents won't go
>if it isn't any fun
>anymore. Tardville has done
>everything it can to take
>the fun out of the
>hunt, with choose your weapon,
>pick your ridge (unit) and
>stick with it, and point
>creep. It is pretty
>daunting for old and young
>alike.
I couldn't agree more with this.
They ripped the "family tradition" away when they went to statewide draw system and our school systems eliminated the UEA that was always on the general deer hunt weekend.
Stonefly
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,195
LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-19 AT 11:27PM (MST)[p] Slamdunk, up until 10 years ago, littlebuck and myself taught Hunter Education at Sportsmans in provo. We taught 1 class a month, each class was 3 nights a week for 2 weeks and a shooting class on a saturday at the end of the second week. We tried to limit class size to 35 students. Some classes were 40. Littlebuck worked with several kids who had disabilities to help them meet the requirments to become legal blue card packin hunters. There was never a shortage of kids and adults who wanted to take the class. When we stopped teaching a Sportsmans, we still did classes in both Utah and Sanpete counties when we were ask to. The DWR has made it easier and easier to take the class, you have internet classes, they dont even score the shooting test anymore.
#1 Problem (as I see it) Adults dont have either time or desire to get thier kids into hunting/outdoors. I have 3 grandsons, who live with me and Littlebuck, 14,12,and 9. They all hunt, they earn money to buy bullets, hunting equipment, fishing supplies. They do all these things because they live with an old dinosaur cowboy and his granny wife. They do have choises. They could spend thier money on video games, but there gonna have a sad look on thier face when we are all fishing and thier sittin in a chair with us watching because they dont have anything to fish with. Point is we give them the opertunity to fish with us. We dont buy them a video game baby sitter to occupy them away from us, a lot of adults do.
#2 Problem (as I see it) Stigma. GUNS KILL PEOPLE, ANIMALS HAVE RIGHTS TOO, GO VEGAN, oh ya, and GUNS KILL PEOPLE.
#3 $ MONEY $
#4 $ MONEY $ how are mommy and daddy gonna get that new I phone if they spend money on guns ( that kill people) hunting equipment and an application fee so maybe they can draw, maybe... Eel had a great suggestion, start them on small game, and let.them evolve into Deer.and Elk ect..( this really is a good idea, start them with a hunt that actually can be Planned on, and not just hoped for.) Of couse Bess is right also, Pheasents would probably be a poor choice. Ducks might require more equipment costs... what are we doing about all these damn eurasion doves =spell check= i hear you can shoot them suckers year round sure are alot of them...w&ats a box of 7-1/2s go for these days, i got.a couple old single shots id let.go cheep...
#5 problem (as I see it) who will take jr. Out. Mentors are going to be tough. Mommy and daddy dont have time, even if they do, the games.on that day or thats the hair appointment day, or... what ever.. and having been a mentor let me just say, some upcomming special little hunters are bratts, and I couldnt stand being around them, and im sure a hell not.going to have my.grand kids around them. I dont mind being a hunting/ fishing/ outdoors mentor. BUT i have NO intrest in the how not.to be a spoild bratt mentoring program. AND i dont like the liability of having an EXPERTS kid along with a gun, bow, sharp knife ect... like I said Mentors are going to be tough..
Slamdunk, sure hope.you took this in good spirit, as that is how it was ment. I would love to find a way to get more youth involved in the outdoors, i was just ask to consider teaching a fly tieing class.for.kids this summer, and am considering it. When we taught Hunters Ed people always thanked us for doing it, my secret was, I enjoyed working with young hunters as much or more than they liked learning... GOOD LUCK I hope you can find a way. Oh ya and i typed.this on my phone, so bear with me..
= edit= Slam,I had to come back and edit this, to tell you about a facebook thread I just read, a guy complaining that his wife, didnt draw a Deer tag, she was going to hunt this uear, on the " trial program". He thinks its not.fair, good god almighty, " not fair" that they, i assume he means the DWR have a program for new people to try hunting, without hunters education, and they cant even draw a deer tag on the first try... goes a long way about peoples mindset these days,id say lol.
#1 Problem (as I see it) Adults dont have either time or desire to get thier kids into hunting/outdoors. I have 3 grandsons, who live with me and Littlebuck, 14,12,and 9. They all hunt, they earn money to buy bullets, hunting equipment, fishing supplies. They do all these things because they live with an old dinosaur cowboy and his granny wife. They do have choises. They could spend thier money on video games, but there gonna have a sad look on thier face when we are all fishing and thier sittin in a chair with us watching because they dont have anything to fish with. Point is we give them the opertunity to fish with us. We dont buy them a video game baby sitter to occupy them away from us, a lot of adults do.
#2 Problem (as I see it) Stigma. GUNS KILL PEOPLE, ANIMALS HAVE RIGHTS TOO, GO VEGAN, oh ya, and GUNS KILL PEOPLE.
#3 $ MONEY $
#4 $ MONEY $ how are mommy and daddy gonna get that new I phone if they spend money on guns ( that kill people) hunting equipment and an application fee so maybe they can draw, maybe... Eel had a great suggestion, start them on small game, and let.them evolve into Deer.and Elk ect..( this really is a good idea, start them with a hunt that actually can be Planned on, and not just hoped for.) Of couse Bess is right also, Pheasents would probably be a poor choice. Ducks might require more equipment costs... what are we doing about all these damn eurasion doves =spell check= i hear you can shoot them suckers year round sure are alot of them...w&ats a box of 7-1/2s go for these days, i got.a couple old single shots id let.go cheep...
#5 problem (as I see it) who will take jr. Out. Mentors are going to be tough. Mommy and daddy dont have time, even if they do, the games.on that day or thats the hair appointment day, or... what ever.. and having been a mentor let me just say, some upcomming special little hunters are bratts, and I couldnt stand being around them, and im sure a hell not.going to have my.grand kids around them. I dont mind being a hunting/ fishing/ outdoors mentor. BUT i have NO intrest in the how not.to be a spoild bratt mentoring program. AND i dont like the liability of having an EXPERTS kid along with a gun, bow, sharp knife ect... like I said Mentors are going to be tough..
Slamdunk, sure hope.you took this in good spirit, as that is how it was ment. I would love to find a way to get more youth involved in the outdoors, i was just ask to consider teaching a fly tieing class.for.kids this summer, and am considering it. When we taught Hunters Ed people always thanked us for doing it, my secret was, I enjoyed working with young hunters as much or more than they liked learning... GOOD LUCK I hope you can find a way. Oh ya and i typed.this on my phone, so bear with me..
= edit= Slam,I had to come back and edit this, to tell you about a facebook thread I just read, a guy complaining that his wife, didnt draw a Deer tag, she was going to hunt this uear, on the " trial program". He thinks its not.fair, good god almighty, " not fair" that they, i assume he means the DWR have a program for new people to try hunting, without hunters education, and they cant even draw a deer tag on the first try... goes a long way about peoples mindset these days,id say lol.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,816
LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-19 AT 01:46AM (MST)[p] I Agree stonefly!
So a few years ago I offered to take a Friends Kid on a Pheasant Hunt they have set up for Youth in Myton Utah!
Yup,Parents are too Busy with Misc BS to take Jr Bird Hunting just once!
Well!
When I offered,it offended the Dad!(My Friend)
So Right before I Was gonna Take the Kid His Dad Calls & said:I'm Taking Him!
OK with Me,Not a Problem!
Then the Night before the Hunt,the Dad Calls & Asks if I have a Gun they can Borrow?
I Tell Him I Sure Do,the Same Gun I was gonna let Him Use if I would have took Him!
So they Stop & get the Gun,the Dad keeps looking at the Gun,Yes it's a Loner & I Don't Normally Lone any of My Guns out,but I Do Have a Loner or two for occasions like this!
Finally the Dad Says:I Know you've Got better Guns than this I Was Hoping You'd let Him Borrow a Benelli or such!
GEEZUS I about Lost it!
He Can't/Won't even Buy His Son a Shotgun of any Kind but wants Him to Start out with a Borrowed Binelli!
When they Brought the Loner Back the Dad was Pissed & Blamed My Loner Gun for the Kid not Hitting any Birds!
I'm sure it was the first time He'd ever shot a Shotgun/Gun!
I Thought I was Trying to Help out but that's how that went!
EDIT:The Kid did have a Nice Phone He was F'N around on the Whole Time they were here to borrow the Gun!
And Yes BIGJOHN,I Know,anybody's Phone is Nicer than Mine!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
So a few years ago I offered to take a Friends Kid on a Pheasant Hunt they have set up for Youth in Myton Utah!
Yup,Parents are too Busy with Misc BS to take Jr Bird Hunting just once!
Well!
When I offered,it offended the Dad!(My Friend)
So Right before I Was gonna Take the Kid His Dad Calls & said:I'm Taking Him!
OK with Me,Not a Problem!
Then the Night before the Hunt,the Dad Calls & Asks if I have a Gun they can Borrow?
I Tell Him I Sure Do,the Same Gun I was gonna let Him Use if I would have took Him!
So they Stop & get the Gun,the Dad keeps looking at the Gun,Yes it's a Loner & I Don't Normally Lone any of My Guns out,but I Do Have a Loner or two for occasions like this!
Finally the Dad Says:I Know you've Got better Guns than this I Was Hoping You'd let Him Borrow a Benelli or such!
GEEZUS I about Lost it!
He Can't/Won't even Buy His Son a Shotgun of any Kind but wants Him to Start out with a Borrowed Binelli!
When they Brought the Loner Back the Dad was Pissed & Blamed My Loner Gun for the Kid not Hitting any Birds!
I'm sure it was the first time He'd ever shot a Shotgun/Gun!
I Thought I was Trying to Help out but that's how that went!
EDIT:The Kid did have a Nice Phone He was F'N around on the Whole Time they were here to borrow the Gun!
And Yes BIGJOHN,I Know,anybody's Phone is Nicer than Mine!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,404
Good post Stonefly and thank you for the first hand insightful comments.
It's probably a lost cause, and or an uphill battle, but I want to give it some more thought and work on a little support before I give it a green light.
As I mentioned, I already have all the resources in my corner as my fiance' is a manager at the Provo Sportsman's Warehouse and is fully supportive of an event such as this.
Just thinking out loud for now....
It's probably a lost cause, and or an uphill battle, but I want to give it some more thought and work on a little support before I give it a green light.
As I mentioned, I already have all the resources in my corner as my fiance' is a manager at the Provo Sportsman's Warehouse and is fully supportive of an event such as this.
Just thinking out loud for now....
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,648
Access and opportunity.
Which means destroying the 2 tier system has.
First Access.
N Utah is one big CWMU. No kid can drive 3 hours to hunt. The original concept of creating a way ranchers could help the bottom line has morphed into giant private hunting club's, complete with locked up private land.
The formulas of decades ago no longer match today's reality. While the public cuts tags, plays games, the CWMU thrive. The DWR focus should be Block Management, not a guaranteed tag every year for rich dudes model.
Second opportunity.
No kid will ever stick if his chance at a branch entered antlered bull takes 15-20 years. The point sysytem is great, if you were of hunting age the year it started. If your 12. Your future is spike units, and general deer. Sheep, goat, moose, buffalo, large bulls, big bucks are closed to you.
At the very least kids 12-17 should get to put in for every LE/Oil tag, unlimited.
I did, and so did every other point holder older than 45.
But you want to create excitement. NO POINTS.
Straight up lotto.
14yr old kid that draws san Juan twice back to back creates Buzz. Las Vegas wasn't built on waiting 19 yrs to win, it is the chance it could happen.
In short. The rules that grabbed the 40 and older crowd, WORKED.
The ones today DONT.
Time to return to what worked.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Which means destroying the 2 tier system has.
First Access.
N Utah is one big CWMU. No kid can drive 3 hours to hunt. The original concept of creating a way ranchers could help the bottom line has morphed into giant private hunting club's, complete with locked up private land.
The formulas of decades ago no longer match today's reality. While the public cuts tags, plays games, the CWMU thrive. The DWR focus should be Block Management, not a guaranteed tag every year for rich dudes model.
Second opportunity.
No kid will ever stick if his chance at a branch entered antlered bull takes 15-20 years. The point sysytem is great, if you were of hunting age the year it started. If your 12. Your future is spike units, and general deer. Sheep, goat, moose, buffalo, large bulls, big bucks are closed to you.
At the very least kids 12-17 should get to put in for every LE/Oil tag, unlimited.
I did, and so did every other point holder older than 45.
But you want to create excitement. NO POINTS.
Straight up lotto.
14yr old kid that draws san Juan twice back to back creates Buzz. Las Vegas wasn't built on waiting 19 yrs to win, it is the chance it could happen.
In short. The rules that grabbed the 40 and older crowd, WORKED.
The ones today DONT.
Time to return to what worked.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Deerlove
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,065
Access and opportunity.
Which means destroying the 2 tier system has.
First Access.
N Utah is one big CWMU. No kid can drive 3 hours to hunt. The original concept of creating a way ranchers could help the bottom line has morphed into giant private hunting club's, complete with locked up private land.
SO TRUE
Which means destroying the 2 tier system has.
First Access.
N Utah is one big CWMU. No kid can drive 3 hours to hunt. The original concept of creating a way ranchers could help the bottom line has morphed into giant private hunting club's, complete with locked up private land.
SO TRUE
Broadside_Shot
Active Member
- Messages
- 590
Another Major Factor that has hurt us, is the Major Progression of Technology!!!
All of us in our 40's and beyond learned from a different way. We had to plan ahead, we had to do chores to survive, and we were just as busy in using the Hours in the Day as now.
But in Today's age, and I am as guilty as the rest. With the introduction of Cell Phones, Internet, Shopping Online and View Pictures, etc, etc.
We have become Intense Multi Taskers!!! This doesn't include Video Games at all for me. I don't play a single video game on my phone but I do make 10 phone calls for work while I'm driving to the Book Cliffs. I could tell you every dead spot between Vernal and I-70.
We have become so Busy that we truly don't plan and prepare the way we had to 25 years ago. I used to look forward to the Deer Hunt weeks in advance. But now I can justify going out the night before, grabbing a few supplies and hurrying through the weekend because of the amount of stuff I have to do by Monday. As a Kid once I got out of school I didn't have to think about anything but my hunt. Nobody could get a hold of me or was even expecting to because I was gone and that was how it was. My dad still lives that way
Now we live in the "Give it to Me Now" Generation and we are all guilty of this because if we don't live this way those that do will go somewhere else. The overwhelming majority live this way.
Remember how long it took to get your photos developed. It made it so exciting when you received them, Almost like a Christmas gift. Now you can send photos from the Kill site.
We all played sports as a kid but we played our little league, practices were when the coaches got of work and we didn't travel anywhere to play games. Now I have justified driving from Vernal to St. George to watch my son Wrestle a 20 Second Match. Why because I was able to do my work from the Road, handle my Church Callings, wish my Wife Happy Birthday and Buy Hunting Clothes from Amazon all on the way.
In not saying this is wrong but it is the Way Now. My kids have no Idea what it is like to wait a week for something. Its just the World we live in now. I hate it but I continue to live this way. All my kids hunt, all my kids Spouses hunt but it is not the same as when I was a kid. They know nothing Different.
How many from the Basin can justify driving to the expo just to apply for the 5 dollar tags and drive home an hour later. Most of us. My dad does not because it is absolutely Crazy in his mind to do so. Why because he can't get his work done at home as needed to survive while I do just that on my cell phone on the way out.
Therefore hunting has become a Task to us along with many others and we expect our kids to not do the same.
I spent 17 days on my Book Cliffs Archery Elk hunt and tried my best to throw out all the Today's Worries and Expectations about Hunting. It was Super Hard but I was able to Enjoy it much better.
We definitely have a problem brewing and if we don't figure it out, it will no longer be available.
All of us in our 40's and beyond learned from a different way. We had to plan ahead, we had to do chores to survive, and we were just as busy in using the Hours in the Day as now.
But in Today's age, and I am as guilty as the rest. With the introduction of Cell Phones, Internet, Shopping Online and View Pictures, etc, etc.
We have become Intense Multi Taskers!!! This doesn't include Video Games at all for me. I don't play a single video game on my phone but I do make 10 phone calls for work while I'm driving to the Book Cliffs. I could tell you every dead spot between Vernal and I-70.
We have become so Busy that we truly don't plan and prepare the way we had to 25 years ago. I used to look forward to the Deer Hunt weeks in advance. But now I can justify going out the night before, grabbing a few supplies and hurrying through the weekend because of the amount of stuff I have to do by Monday. As a Kid once I got out of school I didn't have to think about anything but my hunt. Nobody could get a hold of me or was even expecting to because I was gone and that was how it was. My dad still lives that way
Now we live in the "Give it to Me Now" Generation and we are all guilty of this because if we don't live this way those that do will go somewhere else. The overwhelming majority live this way.
Remember how long it took to get your photos developed. It made it so exciting when you received them, Almost like a Christmas gift. Now you can send photos from the Kill site.
We all played sports as a kid but we played our little league, practices were when the coaches got of work and we didn't travel anywhere to play games. Now I have justified driving from Vernal to St. George to watch my son Wrestle a 20 Second Match. Why because I was able to do my work from the Road, handle my Church Callings, wish my Wife Happy Birthday and Buy Hunting Clothes from Amazon all on the way.
In not saying this is wrong but it is the Way Now. My kids have no Idea what it is like to wait a week for something. Its just the World we live in now. I hate it but I continue to live this way. All my kids hunt, all my kids Spouses hunt but it is not the same as when I was a kid. They know nothing Different.
How many from the Basin can justify driving to the expo just to apply for the 5 dollar tags and drive home an hour later. Most of us. My dad does not because it is absolutely Crazy in his mind to do so. Why because he can't get his work done at home as needed to survive while I do just that on my cell phone on the way out.
Therefore hunting has become a Task to us along with many others and we expect our kids to not do the same.
I spent 17 days on my Book Cliffs Archery Elk hunt and tried my best to throw out all the Today's Worries and Expectations about Hunting. It was Super Hard but I was able to Enjoy it much better.
We definitely have a problem brewing and if we don't figure it out, it will no longer be available.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,404
Hoss, I agree with the original lotto as well, it USED to be exciting and I remember going up the the headquarters with hundreds of others in Hope's of hearing my name called.
Finally I am reading posts with logic and passion.
Nice post broadsideshot!!?
We all need to hit the RAC's as a group with a voice, standing alone doesn't create a buzz!!
Finally I am reading posts with logic and passion.
Nice post broadsideshot!!?
We all need to hit the RAC's as a group with a voice, standing alone doesn't create a buzz!!
Focoelkman
Active Member
- Messages
- 783
Your suspicion of adding more applicants to the drawing odds is spot on. It is down right ridiculous.
>Too many wanna be's as well.
>Recruiting idiots - no thanks. It is a past-time to be passed down IMO.
I have introduced my son to hunting. I will take his friends waterfowl, and to shoot some rabbits. Do some howling for coyotes, but no one knows what area and unit we big game hunt in.
Antelope has gone from needing one pref. point 20 years ago, to now taking 7 or more. Deer is the same game, would draw my fourth season buck tag every year. Sitting on 2 points?
>Too many wanna be's as well.
>Recruiting idiots - no thanks. It is a past-time to be passed down IMO.
I have introduced my son to hunting. I will take his friends waterfowl, and to shoot some rabbits. Do some howling for coyotes, but no one knows what area and unit we big game hunt in.
Antelope has gone from needing one pref. point 20 years ago, to now taking 7 or more. Deer is the same game, would draw my fourth season buck tag every year. Sitting on 2 points?
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 873
I think the lotto is the way to go but the problem your going to have is some people have a lot of points built up
How would you do something like this? I thought of this.
The points system would have to stop now,and you can't build anymore points but the points you have built over the years stay the same.So they can choose to leave the points system or stay in.
So If they take half the tags in each unit by species and put them in a draw just like there doing now,and Take the other half and throw them in a lotto and keep doing this till the POINT SYSTEM is all gone,then throw all the tags in a lotto then it's the luck of the draw everyone is happy I think
And If you do draw one of species you put in for you are on 5 year waiting period for that species.And you can only put in for one LE unit not multiple.
I don't know if this would even work,I'm just throwing out ideas,I'm just trying to find a way to make everyone happy....
How would you do something like this? I thought of this.
The points system would have to stop now,and you can't build anymore points but the points you have built over the years stay the same.So they can choose to leave the points system or stay in.
So If they take half the tags in each unit by species and put them in a draw just like there doing now,and Take the other half and throw them in a lotto and keep doing this till the POINT SYSTEM is all gone,then throw all the tags in a lotto then it's the luck of the draw everyone is happy I think
And If you do draw one of species you put in for you are on 5 year waiting period for that species.And you can only put in for one LE unit not multiple.
I don't know if this would even work,I'm just throwing out ideas,I'm just trying to find a way to make everyone happy....
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,648
>I think the lotto is the
>way to go but the
>problem your going to have
>is some people have a
>lot of points built up
>
>
>How would you do something like
>this? I thought of this.
>
>
>The points system would have to
>stop now,and you can't build
>anymore points but the points
>you have built over the
>years stay the same.So they
>can choose to leave the
>points system or stay in.
>
>
>So If they take half the
>tags in each unit by
>species and put them in
>a draw just like there
>doing now,and Take the other
>half and throw them in
>a lotto and keep doing
>this till the POINT SYSTEM
>is all gone,then throw all
>the tags in a lotto
>then it's the luck of
>the draw everyone is happy
>I think
>
>And If you do draw one
>of species you put in
>for you are on 5
>year waiting period for that
>species.And you can only put
>in for one LE unit
>not multiple.
>
>I don't know if this would
>even work,I'm just throwing out
>ideas,I'm just trying to find
>a way to make everyone
>happy....
I have 19 moose. 5 elk. 7 bear. 2 swan.
We all bought points. That was the game. The game changes.
Give 3 yrs. You have 3 yrs to burn them.
There was never a guarantee that points meant anything. They aren't transferable, so you don't "own" anything.
They are simply a way to tip the scales in favor of grey beards. Most of whom maxed out when they could get points for all species.
A straight up lotto is the only fair way to deal with a demand for a limited resource.
Closing the door on all newer hunters to most of the opportunity doesn't save hunting, it crushes it.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>way to go but the
>problem your going to have
>is some people have a
>lot of points built up
>
>
>How would you do something like
>this? I thought of this.
>
>
>The points system would have to
>stop now,and you can't build
>anymore points but the points
>you have built over the
>years stay the same.So they
>can choose to leave the
>points system or stay in.
>
>
>So If they take half the
>tags in each unit by
>species and put them in
>a draw just like there
>doing now,and Take the other
>half and throw them in
>a lotto and keep doing
>this till the POINT SYSTEM
>is all gone,then throw all
>the tags in a lotto
>then it's the luck of
>the draw everyone is happy
>I think
>
>And If you do draw one
>of species you put in
>for you are on 5
>year waiting period for that
>species.And you can only put
>in for one LE unit
>not multiple.
>
>I don't know if this would
>even work,I'm just throwing out
>ideas,I'm just trying to find
>a way to make everyone
>happy....
I have 19 moose. 5 elk. 7 bear. 2 swan.
We all bought points. That was the game. The game changes.
Give 3 yrs. You have 3 yrs to burn them.
There was never a guarantee that points meant anything. They aren't transferable, so you don't "own" anything.
They are simply a way to tip the scales in favor of grey beards. Most of whom maxed out when they could get points for all species.
A straight up lotto is the only fair way to deal with a demand for a limited resource.
Closing the door on all newer hunters to most of the opportunity doesn't save hunting, it crushes it.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,816
Hey Hoss!
As Soon as I Pull an Elk & Buffalo Tag I'll agree with going back to a Lotto!
I Ain't Giving Them Points up & nobody is Taking them From me!
And If they Do I'm Still going Hunting!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
As Soon as I Pull an Elk & Buffalo Tag I'll agree with going back to a Lotto!
I Ain't Giving Them Points up & nobody is Taking them From me!
And If they Do I'm Still going Hunting!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
1911
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,197
Game draws will be like doing your taxes. Instead of having to hire a CPA, you'll need to hire an attorney to navigate through the red tape and remain on the right side of the law. At a certain point, the regulations, many of them nonsense, will push people away from the 'fun.' Hells bells when you step off the roadway to look at a shed after calling your legal counsel, it kind of dampens the whole experience.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,648
>Hey Hoss!
>
>As Soon as I Pull an
>Elk & Buffalo Tag I'll
>agree with going back to
>a Lotto!
>
>I Ain't Giving Them Points up
>& nobody is Taking them
>From me!
>
>And If they Do I'm Still
>going Hunting!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
You can keep them forever. Make a plaque.
But going to a lotto balances the field for everyone.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
>
>As Soon as I Pull an
>Elk & Buffalo Tag I'll
>agree with going back to
>a Lotto!
>
>I Ain't Giving Them Points up
>& nobody is Taking them
>From me!
>
>And If they Do I'm Still
>going Hunting!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
You can keep them forever. Make a plaque.
But going to a lotto balances the field for everyone.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
Robiland
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,091
I am not sure what the answers are. But I am 42 and my brother is 38. I love to hunt and hunt all over and do all that I can. I have 4 boys, my oldest is 15 and lives, breathes and sleeps hunting and outdoors. My 13 year old doest care for it too much. He likes bird hunting but not big on big game. I dont know why. Its frustrating too, trying to figure out what I did wrong or didnt do. But somestimes it happens. Hunting is not for everyone.
With that said, I hate all the youth programs. I personally dont think they work. Baby them until they are 18 and all of a sudden BAM, no tags or hunting every year for everything early before everyone else. My oldest had been on 3 hunts this year NOT FOR HIM. He ahs gone with my to help friends and family on LE tags and loves every second of it. infact, we are leaving tomorrow to help our neighbor on his LAte manti elk tag.
With that said, I hate all the youth programs. I personally dont think they work. Baby them until they are 18 and all of a sudden BAM, no tags or hunting every year for everything early before everyone else. My oldest had been on 3 hunts this year NOT FOR HIM. He ahs gone with my to help friends and family on LE tags and loves every second of it. infact, we are leaving tomorrow to help our neighbor on his LAte manti elk tag.
Aceman
Active Member
- Messages
- 191
Just wondering if technology has any part in the decrease of mature bucks and bulls. I know that hunters are now able to take longer shots with the new scopes and rifle barrels. Also the bows and muzzleloaders have come along way since the time the seasons were established. Based on the postings on the message boards, seems like it is harder to find mature animals in the regular rifle season. Do our early bow and muzzleloader seasons reflect the increase in technology. Not against technology just thought I would throw this into the mix. Since about 60% of the Colorado Wildlife budget depends on hunter fees, could that also have some impact on how many licenses are sold. Saving hunting is not an easy fix.
johnnyutah
Active Member
- Messages
- 125
LAST EDITED ON Nov-14-19 AT 12:30PM (MST)[p]Eel,
This was the most helpful advice I've seen in a while. It's the way I was introduced, but not how I've raised my kids. I didn't deer hunt until I was 16. I fish and camp, but not enough. My son is 11 and has never been rabbit hunting. I've focused on big game which hasn't worked out for my oldest daughter, but did for the next oldest. I"m afraid neither have learning the basic skills obtained by going in the desert and plinking with a .22. It would have been far better if I would have started them out simple.
I just bought a used youth bow today and will be setting up a range in the backyard this week. I intend on finding a pellet gun next and a youth .22 after that. I think this is something the entire family can enjoy.
(My wife just cleaned out the garage and sold the box trap for $5 last night - grrrr.)
I think your suggestions are far better than what the video assessed. Way better than "go recruit someone who doesn't look like you." Just another mindless"affirmative action fixes everything" presentation.
Back to basics. I'm excited at seeing what comes of this.
This was the most helpful advice I've seen in a while. It's the way I was introduced, but not how I've raised my kids. I didn't deer hunt until I was 16. I fish and camp, but not enough. My son is 11 and has never been rabbit hunting. I've focused on big game which hasn't worked out for my oldest daughter, but did for the next oldest. I"m afraid neither have learning the basic skills obtained by going in the desert and plinking with a .22. It would have been far better if I would have started them out simple.
I just bought a used youth bow today and will be setting up a range in the backyard this week. I intend on finding a pellet gun next and a youth .22 after that. I think this is something the entire family can enjoy.
(My wife just cleaned out the garage and sold the box trap for $5 last night - grrrr.)
I think your suggestions are far better than what the video assessed. Way better than "go recruit someone who doesn't look like you." Just another mindless"affirmative action fixes everything" presentation.
Back to basics. I'm excited at seeing what comes of this.
This is exactly why I don't understand the people calling for points in Idaho all the time. Here you have all the people who are actually living it wishing they could go back to a random draw. The longer the point systems are in effect the worse it gets and the more people want it to go back to random. I hope Idaho continues to learn from all these other states and just keeps it random like it should be!
