I watched 2 dogs kill a deer today

[IdahoSmitty]

I was out taking my dogs for a walk down by lucky peak on the south side of the river. I took a break and glassed the north side of the of the river (I think it is called hammer flats) and watched 2 dogs run down a deer and kill it. The owners ran up a couple minutes later and after a few minutes took their dogs away. I then watched one of the owners drag the deer down deeper into a canyon. They dogs and the owners walked off and once they got a hundred yards away the two dogs ran back for some more. There were many cars parked on that section of hwy 21 so I was not going to take pic's of every license plate. When I got home I called IDFG's poaching hotline. They told me there is nothing they can do because it was not "poaching." I asked her if there was another number I could call or if I could have the number of a game warden. She told me that she could not take my report at this time and that she is not allowed to give out that information. WTF!!

So is it legal for someone's dogs to kill a deer?

What if I would have watched someone shoot a deer today? Would they have sent someone out there?

There has to be some sort of system in place that allows for immediate action against wildlife crimes.

Should I have done something different?
Let me know what you think! There were tons of deer on this flat and all around the surrounding hills. I watched 3 other sets of owners and dogs running deer around. Smitty

 

[Pre64]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-11 AT 01:07PM (MST)[p]From the regs;
It is illegal to;
"Hunt game with dogs except for black bear and mountain lion."

"Hunt or take wildlife without a valid hunting license or without required tag or permit in possession."

Page. 64




You could also call Ada County Dispatch non-emergency number.

 

[huntfish714]

THAT'S MESSED UP!!! we need to have some type of response force for stuff like that especially for wintering animals! if that deer was a doe and pregnant than those dogs probably just killed 3 deer for fun! id call fish and game for sure on monday, my experience is there's nothing on weekends for them. they won't be able to catch those specific people but Maby they will document it and keep an eye on that area in the future. thank you for looking out for our idaho gems!

 

[Tank]

I believe you can shoot dogs on site if they are harassing big game animals.

 

[muleymaster]

shoot the mutts!!!

then call fish and game and tell them they have some dead dogs to clean up since they arnt worried about cleaning up our poorly ran fish and game departmanet.

 

[matt4695]

This sucks,,,I live close by and can almost see hammer flat with my spotting scope from my upstairs window, I can see all the hills above and they are loaded with deer and elk right know. What really sucks is that the foothills above Boise are full of trails that people use everyday to walk there dogs and exercise on. This is a critical wintering place for big game. Boise is getting over run with people that could care less about the big game in the foothills. There are alot of people that have moved in from out of state and share different political views than the sportsman in Idaho(same people that love wolves). I get really sick and tired of dealing with these people. They need to go back to there big cities where they belong.

 

[beavis14]

+1 matt4695 a lady i work with was overjoyed that wolves were in eagle. practicaly in town. she asked me what she might possibly offer them in the way of food to get a good picture with them . i told her to cover herself in bacon grease and whine that should do it.......... yes the wintering herds are in trouble nobody will leave them alone

 

[BPKHunter]

While it is illegal to hunt deer with a dog, I doubt in this situation you would win a court case that this dog owner was hunting. Therefore, any type of hunting violation is not applicable.

Yes, unfortunately, in Idaho you are authorized by code to shoot a dog that is harassing wildlife, but I think that is rarely the correct decision. Dogs are like family memebers to many and to kill their dog for chasing deer or doing what they naturally do is not usually the right answer. You may not agree, but I'd bet a bunch of money that a majority of the public would agree. This law is appropriate for dealing with feral dogs.

I think you guys have stumbled upon an area that is not being adequately addressed in the law. I think this is a relatively new issue as people have crowded into our deer herds wintering area. Also 25 years ago, the amount of people who felt the need to walk, including their dogs, in the foothills, has probably increased exponentially.

I'm not sure of any law on the books that might apply, unless there is some leash law or control law I'm not aware of. These are areas where people routinely chukar hunt I think, so I can't imagine any apply, unless they are on the books with some sort of loop hope for bird, cat, and bear hunters.

What is a good answer. First, I would propose legislations that severely limits human interraction with wintering grounds of big game. I think there is plenty of access for wildlife viewing from public roads, but actually venturing into their wintering grounds should be restricted. Now this goes for hikers and shed hunters alike. Secondly, to deal with the dogs, while I don't think dogs should be shot unless the belief is they are feral, the owners of dogs that chase, injur, or kill a big game animal should be fined heavily, say $100, $250, and $500 resctively for a fist offense and double for each additional offense.

To support the kinds of statewide herds we all want, with current and future statewide human populations we need to have these herds relatively unimpacted by humans and their households, which includs their pets. But, if we start shooting peoples dogs their backlash against hunters and ranchers will simply create a wider divide between us and the anti-hunter portion of our own state. It's hard for an anti-hunter to argue that is acceptable to not be responsible for your dogs actions, but easy to argue in public against you shooting their lab for chasing deer.

Sorry to be so wordy, it's winter and I'm bored!

 

[BPKHunter]

PS, While I would hate to see it happen, if the non-hunters start getting their prized schnauzers mutilated by a wolf while walking in the Eagle or Boise foothills that will do a lot to help our fight against the Feds on the Wolf issue.

 

[IdahoSmitty]

BPKHunter, I think you brought up some good points. I have dogs and I like taking them out for shed hunts or for a hike in the foothills as well, BUT I also have control over them and know that if they were to see a deer they would rather go up to it and lick it than chase it around. I also bring a leash w/ me just in case there are other dogs who are not so friendly. My gripe is that the owners took their dogs into an area that is highly populated w/ deer, let them off their leash, and now there is a dead deer. (which could be pregnant) On top of that mess, there was no system in place for action against the owners. I will write the F&G a letter about this incident and see what they have to say. The chick who answered the poaching hotline sounded like she hated her job and was not very helpful either. I guess I just expected someone to jump on the lead and investigate a situation. Jokes on me!

 

[huntaddict]

Sounds like there needs to be a leash law on wintering grounds during the winter and early spring. I would of gotten the name of the person who you called and wouldn't give you any info. If your dog attacks another dog or person what happens? It shouldn't be any different for wildlife.

 

[brymoore]

What type of dogs were they? I haven't seen many family pet dogs that could run down a deer. I'm suspecting that the deer was sick in the first place.

 

[IdahoSmitty]

Brymoore, I couldn't tell you what kind of dogs they were. I was on the south side of the river where the oregon trail park is off hwy 21. They were on the north side of the river on hammer flat. I could tell that one was black and the other was a reddish tan color. Your right the deer could have been already injured but I am just reporting what I watched. To me it looked like the deer stumbled and the dogs caught up pretty quick.

 

[Pre64]

Did you call em Smitty?

 

[BPKHunter]

Smitty,

I too have control over my dog in the form of a shock collar. She has felt more than a few volts when she jumped deer out of the sage bird hunting as a pup. Now she just looks at them, looks at me, then puts her nose back down on the ground. I think a law that states you need to be in control of your dog, but be held accountable either way if the deer gets injured or killed.

 

[alturascaptain]

Very sad. in 79 i was hunting with friends when one of them put a buck down. i went over to look and as we were talking we heard a dog barking on the run. As we turned to look a buck busted out of the brush with a large dog on its heels. My first shot put the buck down my second put the dog down. The dog had no collar. I lost no sleep. enough said... and i would do it again.

 

[IdahoSmitty]

Have not called yet. I have been very busy w/ school. Friday might be a good day for me.

 

[BPKHunter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-11 AT 08:14PM (MST)[p]>Very sad. in 79 i was
>hunting with friends when one
>of them put a buck
>down. i went over to
>look and as we were
>talking we heard a dog
>barking on the run. As
>we turned to look a
>buck busted out of the
>brush with a large dog
>on its heels. My first
>shot put the buck down
>my second put the dog
>down. The dog had no
>collar. I lost no sleep.
>enough said... and i would
>do it again.

Sad...is that you seem proud of it!

 

[Smiley]

For those of you saying shoot them be fore warned it is unlawful for you to do so as a citizen it is lawful for a officer to do so .
If you are found guilty of shooting a dog you are liable to loose your hunting rights no matter the reasons just depends on the judge.
Do your best to find ones responsible and get enforcement involved there would be large fines that is one of the few ways people wake up and take responsibility for their pets.

 

[alturascaptain]

You soft hearted lets just hold hands and talk about it and do nothing make me sick. Do you actually think big brother will ever do anything about the wrongs out there, if so your pretty stupid. There is right and there is wrong. You do not have to wait for someone else to make it right. Pretty soon those of you who have well behaved dogs who listen to their owners and behave may not be allowed to take your dogs for a walk without them being on a leash. It's no different than those of you who believe that shooting song dogs and wolves. If the dog was chasing your little dog and it was obvious it wasn't friendly would you let the bigger dog run down yours and do it harm. I would hope not.

 

[IDoutdoors]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-11 AT 10:56PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-11 AT 10:54?PM (MST)

IdahoSmitty,
The help stop poaching line is kind of a joke.(as you found out) I called the line a couple of years ago to report a poaching/harassing of big game animals. The women on the line said do you know exactly what is going on if not I will just take a report and refer it to a conservation officer later. I told her my info and she said I will just take a report and give it to an officer later. I was ticked so I called the local sheriffs deparment and they had a conservation officer call me back in less than 5 minutes. Luckily the fish and game guy was pretty close to my location He ended up catching the guys responsible. I just call local law enforcement and have them call the fish and game or they can deal with it themselves. I don't think I will ever mess with the hotline again. kind of sad the hotline doesn't work the way it should.

 

[springbear]

You would want to be careful shooting the dogs yourself. As was stated, It is not leagle for YOU to just shoot a dog that is chasing deer. Only an LEO can do that or authorize it. I can only imagine the potential cluster if I shot some high dollar bird dog, and the owner comes walking around the bend. it would liekly get ugly in a hurry, and at best I am going to owe a lot of money and be in court.

You can very well protect you and your property from pretty much anything in this state, you do not need "permission" for that. You don't own the deer..

I have never heard of a Fish and Game warden or even a County Sheriff not responding quickly. I have had to deal with this sort of thing a couple of times. I am a dog owner as well, so I dont' take it lightly, but both times the game warden and Sheriff showed up and the dogs were killed in grand fashion. I mean there was no debateing it, no lets try and call the dog off. Nope, one had a sniper rifle and one had an AR, and the dogs didn't have a chance. They also wrote a heafty ticket to the dog's owner.

 

[alturascaptain]

I have called fish and game 3 times now. twice in california and once in Idaho. Never had a responce from either one. I gave Cal F&G a license plate with a monster buck in back taken out of season. Followed drag rail back to remains and there was the knife they used to remove the head. Nice finger prints also. gave them all the info and told them i would wait until they arrive. I waited 6 hours. went and called them said they would have no response as all officers were busy. Doing waht who knows. Called them again for a bunch of south of the border guys with ice chest full of crappie. I'm talking 8 big ice chests. let see three fishermen 8 full ice chests. Could not come and see or send another LE agency out. In idaho near slate creek my father and brother and I watched 2 hunters shoot decent bucks. we saw their bucks. went hunting and when we went by their camp two days later they had 2 different much larger bucks hanging. Called F&G and they daid they would look in to it. Well near the end of season we went back and checked out their camp to see whet they may have left behind. We found the deer they had killed the first time and dragged about 30 yards and dumped off a rock ledge. We thought tha F&G would have taken these for evidence. wrong a quick call proved once again that no action had ever taken place. What the use you do what is right give license plate numbers and discriptions of parties involved all for not. So now what i still will call it in but where i can take carfe of the problem myself i will!!!!!!

 

[Smiley]

Alturascaptian . Could be a very good way to get yourself killed .

 

[IdahoSmitty]

Well, I wrote a letter 2 days ago and got to talk with an officer today. They basically told me that the way that the "citizens against poaching" hotline handled that call, was wrong. The officer told me that when you call that hotline, they take the report, call the closest officer, and if they cannot get a response they call down the line until they get a response. He assured me that the operators of the hotline should not be deciding what is legal and what is not. They are there simply to answer the phone and activate the chain. He also told me that these operators will have a meeting to discuss this incident. Hopefully by bringing this incident to their attention, it will help prevent another crime.

 

[Pre64]

Nice follow up. thanks

 

[THEBUGLER]

I will shoot on sight any dogs chasing deer, whether they are domestic, coyotes, or wolves, and furthermore if my dog is chasing deer I accept the fact that someone may shoot it. Just my 2 cents.