U
ultramag45
Guest
anybody hear any news on the non res tag prices going up and doing away with outfitter tags..
G
gunsie2
Guest
I found a site that showed that the initiave passed. Not by much, but a majority. My guess is the tags are going up. How do you guys think this will affect the odds for a general deer tag?
NeMont
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 12,632
The deer/elk combo goes from $628 to $897 and the deer combo goes from $328 to $527.
The outfitter sponsored tags go into the general drawing. I think that will mean some average Joe's drop out the formerly Outfitted client get a price reduction and the odds increase for everybody.
I am certain that I161 will not lead to all the things the supporters said it would nor the things the Outfiitters say it would. I think nothing much will change other than the price goes up.
Nemont
The outfitter sponsored tags go into the general drawing. I think that will mean some average Joe's drop out the formerly Outfitted client get a price reduction and the odds increase for everybody.
I am certain that I161 will not lead to all the things the supporters said it would nor the things the Outfiitters say it would. I think nothing much will change other than the price goes up.
Nemont
T
Tally
Guest
NeMont, We were in Jordan antelope hunting in October. What a good time. Weather was perfect! Got a nice buck.
I-161, for deer tags don't you think with the price going up and the pool of deer combo tags increasing the odds of drawing a deer combo will go down?
Our friends in Jordan can't believe what we pay for a deer tag now, wait till we tell them we're paying over $500!
I think our friends boy's pay $10. sheesh...
I-161, for deer tags don't you think with the price going up and the pool of deer combo tags increasing the odds of drawing a deer combo will go down?
Our friends in Jordan can't believe what we pay for a deer tag now, wait till we tell them we're paying over $500!
I think our friends boy's pay $10. sheesh...
NeMont
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 12,632
Tally,
I actually believe the odds of drawing will increase. The price will keep the guys on the margin from applying. There are alot of people who just won't pay that, IMHO.
I am talking the deer/elk combo. The deer combo may see more demand for them as they will be viewed as "cheaper".
We shall see.
Nemont
I actually believe the odds of drawing will increase. The price will keep the guys on the margin from applying. There are alot of people who just won't pay that, IMHO.
I am talking the deer/elk combo. The deer combo may see more demand for them as they will be viewed as "cheaper".
We shall see.
Nemont
puyallupaul
Member
- Messages
- 30
Hi Tally. Glad to here you got a nice buck. Got a Pic ?
Everyone here at work says hi.
Everyone here at work says hi.
S
Shotgun59
Guest
My opinions:
I think odds of drawing a deer tag will be tougher due to more out of staters putting in for just the deer and not the deer/elk combo due to the cost.
My two out of state family members will no longer put in due to cost, it was already tough for them. I know that makes some happy to hear
We are not going to have all this private land access
The state will not sell all the tags
Outfitters will still be outfitting their clients on the private leased land
We will lose some block managment due to lack of funding.
I agree all it did was vote in a price increase.
I dont think this will give the desired results, that suddenly you can hunt everywhere and outfitters no longer exist.
I think odds of drawing a deer tag will be tougher due to more out of staters putting in for just the deer and not the deer/elk combo due to the cost.
My two out of state family members will no longer put in due to cost, it was already tough for them. I know that makes some happy to hear
We are not going to have all this private land access
The state will not sell all the tags
Outfitters will still be outfitting their clients on the private leased land
We will lose some block managment due to lack of funding.
I agree all it did was vote in a price increase.
I dont think this will give the desired results, that suddenly you can hunt everywhere and outfitters no longer exist.
N
NONYAMT
Guest
WTF shouldnt we charge the same as other states?if your too damn cheap to pay what your own home state charges out of staters to hunt in Montana im fine with you staying home,when your states reduce the price of my tags maybe MT can do the same.
My 2 cents:
1) another $250 for the Deer/elk is not a deal breaker. The DIY hunt already runs me well over $1200, whats another $250, this wasn't frugal spending item to start with.
2) no way I would pay $500 for a DIY deer tag, I thought the tag was already to pricey. Only way I pay that money is if I have private land to hunt or an outfitter. Otherwise, I would spend my money on So Utah, No Arizon, or E Nevada, or Colorado.
3) i think the communities will benefit from more hunting related revenues. There will be more non-guided hunters staying in hotels, buying groceries, stopping at the bars for mid lunches, buying gas etc... The guided hunters don't bolster the local economies like the DIY folks do.
4) the guides aren't going out of business, if you were going to buy a guided hunt before, you will now. Their prices might have to go down to be attracive to the person who was on the bubble.
5) this won't open up any new private land, the outfitters will still need the hunting leases (they may renegotiate the $'s based on the removal of the guarantees but their still going to tie up the land). The best outfitters, with the best land, will command the best prices no change.
6) Montana's biggest problem right now is in state....the WOLF. If that problem isn't addressed, everything else is a mute point.
Just my 2 cents (i lived in MT for 25yrs and out for the last 15yrs)
1) another $250 for the Deer/elk is not a deal breaker. The DIY hunt already runs me well over $1200, whats another $250, this wasn't frugal spending item to start with.
2) no way I would pay $500 for a DIY deer tag, I thought the tag was already to pricey. Only way I pay that money is if I have private land to hunt or an outfitter. Otherwise, I would spend my money on So Utah, No Arizon, or E Nevada, or Colorado.
3) i think the communities will benefit from more hunting related revenues. There will be more non-guided hunters staying in hotels, buying groceries, stopping at the bars for mid lunches, buying gas etc... The guided hunters don't bolster the local economies like the DIY folks do.
4) the guides aren't going out of business, if you were going to buy a guided hunt before, you will now. Their prices might have to go down to be attracive to the person who was on the bubble.
5) this won't open up any new private land, the outfitters will still need the hunting leases (they may renegotiate the $'s based on the removal of the guarantees but their still going to tie up the land). The best outfitters, with the best land, will command the best prices no change.
6) Montana's biggest problem right now is in state....the WOLF. If that problem isn't addressed, everything else is a mute point.
Just my 2 cents (i lived in MT for 25yrs and out for the last 15yrs)
S
Shotgun59
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-10 AT 05:15PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-10 AT 05:12?PM (MST)
That was one of my arguments with co workers and friends about the issue.
I very much agree this will not open any new land and outfitters will be just as booked if not more since the tag prices are way down.
For example
Deer guaranteed was $995
New Deer price is $527
it is now almost $500 cheaper to book with an outfitter for deer, not that the clients are overly worried about money but how many more might book with a savings like that. Its a pretty good chunk.
I really dont think we did any good for residents.
That was one of my arguments with co workers and friends about the issue.
I very much agree this will not open any new land and outfitters will be just as booked if not more since the tag prices are way down.
For example
Deer guaranteed was $995
New Deer price is $527
it is now almost $500 cheaper to book with an outfitter for deer, not that the clients are overly worried about money but how many more might book with a savings like that. Its a pretty good chunk.
I really dont think we did any good for residents.
N
NONYAMT
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-14-10 AT 06:31PM (MST)[p]>My 2 cents:
>
>1) another $250 for the Deer/elk
>is not a deal breaker.
> The DIY hunt already
>runs me well over $1200,
>whats another $250, this wasn't
>frugal spending item to start
>with.
>
>2) no way I would pay
>$500 for a DIY deer
>tag, I thought the tag
>was already to pricey.
>Only way I pay that
>money is if I have
>private land to hunt or
>an outfitter. Otherwise, I
>would spend my money on
>So Utah, No Arizon, or
>E Nevada, or Colorado.
>
>3) i think the communities will
>benefit from more hunting related
>revenues. There will be
>more non-guided hunters staying in
>hotels, buying groceries, stopping at
>the bars for mid lunches,
>buying gas etc... The guided
>hunters don't bolster the local
>economies like the DIY folks
>do.
>
>4) the guides aren't going out
>of business, if you were
>going to buy a guided
>hunt before, you will now.
> Their prices might have
>to go down to be
>attracive to the person who
>was on the bubble.
>
>5) this won't open up any
>new private land, the outfitters
>will still need the hunting
>leases (they may renegotiate the
>$'s based on the removal
>of the guarantees but their
>still going to tie up
>the land). The best outfitters,
>with the best land, will
>command the best prices no
>change.
>
>6) Montana's biggest problem right now
>is in state....the WOLF.
>If that problem isn't addressed,
>everything else is a mute
>point.
>
>Just my 2 cents (i lived
>in MT for 25yrs and
>out for the last 15yrs)
>
WRONG...about the access,there are two new ranches on the Block managment review boards list since an outfitter from Idaho just informed them he wouldnt be leasing their place next year because he "wont do buisness in a state that hates outfitters".As long as they meet the requirments and the F&G can come to terms witht the owners they will be open to hunting next year,one of them holds spectacular muledeer and good bulls.This is less than a month after I161 was voted on,time will provide more and more opportunitys like this for the average Joe hunter that is doing their hunting on a budget.You are right about the DIY hunters spending more money in the small communitys.What most people arnt aware of is how much of the money spent on outfitters here in Mt gets deposited in banks in other states.
>
>1) another $250 for the Deer/elk
>is not a deal breaker.
> The DIY hunt already
>runs me well over $1200,
>whats another $250, this wasn't
>frugal spending item to start
>with.
>
>2) no way I would pay
>$500 for a DIY deer
>tag, I thought the tag
>was already to pricey.
>Only way I pay that
>money is if I have
>private land to hunt or
>an outfitter. Otherwise, I
>would spend my money on
>So Utah, No Arizon, or
>E Nevada, or Colorado.
>
>3) i think the communities will
>benefit from more hunting related
>revenues. There will be
>more non-guided hunters staying in
>hotels, buying groceries, stopping at
>the bars for mid lunches,
>buying gas etc... The guided
>hunters don't bolster the local
>economies like the DIY folks
>do.
>
>4) the guides aren't going out
>of business, if you were
>going to buy a guided
>hunt before, you will now.
> Their prices might have
>to go down to be
>attracive to the person who
>was on the bubble.
>
>5) this won't open up any
>new private land, the outfitters
>will still need the hunting
>leases (they may renegotiate the
>$'s based on the removal
>of the guarantees but their
>still going to tie up
>the land). The best outfitters,
>with the best land, will
>command the best prices no
>change.
>
>6) Montana's biggest problem right now
>is in state....the WOLF.
>If that problem isn't addressed,
>everything else is a mute
>point.
>
>Just my 2 cents (i lived
>in MT for 25yrs and
>out for the last 15yrs)
>
WRONG...about the access,there are two new ranches on the Block managment review boards list since an outfitter from Idaho just informed them he wouldnt be leasing their place next year because he "wont do buisness in a state that hates outfitters".As long as they meet the requirments and the F&G can come to terms witht the owners they will be open to hunting next year,one of them holds spectacular muledeer and good bulls.This is less than a month after I161 was voted on,time will provide more and more opportunitys like this for the average Joe hunter that is doing their hunting on a budget.You are right about the DIY hunters spending more money in the small communitys.What most people arnt aware of is how much of the money spent on outfitters here in Mt gets deposited in banks in other states.
R
RUTTNBUCKS
Guest
This law helps no one!!!! It hurts local economy! because there will be fewer people hunting and plus you lose the jobs provided by the outfitters. Lets be honest there are alot of people that would love to come hunt MT but dont know anyone and they would like to go hunting with a guide and now there will be fewer outfitters. I know some of you are anti outfitters and love this law. But I dont see anything good coming of it.
NeMont
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 12,632
Rutt,
You better come up with a better arguement than that. Nothing is keeping anyoone from hiring a guide and outfitter. Draw the tag and hire the guide. It is that simple, in fact it would expand a NR's ability to hunt because the requirement to hunt only with a guide would be gone. They could hunt a week with a guide and then a week without.
Nemont
You better come up with a better arguement than that. Nothing is keeping anyoone from hiring a guide and outfitter. Draw the tag and hire the guide. It is that simple, in fact it would expand a NR's ability to hunt because the requirement to hunt only with a guide would be gone. They could hunt a week with a guide and then a week without.
Nemont
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,357
I personally havent hunted MT yet because I havent draw. I will continue to put in for the combo license. I dont think the price is that off of any other state if you were to buy a deer and elk NR license. The deer only license may be a bit high but isnt everything in the US now a days. IMO the high prices of NR tags is just part of the hunt. We dont live in the state to pay taxes or contribute to the state all year. Also most people hunting guided will still be hunting just drawing the tag may be a bit harder now.
R
RUTTNBUCKS
Guest
Here we go again!! This law is targeting outfitters and that is Bull crap.
If you guys think that this law helps us DIY hunters, you got it wrong. If you would read the law which Im sure most of you have not, you would see that it does nothing to help the everyday hard working hunter. Infact I have had more hunts screwed up by people who dont want to hire a guide and who dont care if they are driving in a resticted area and who dont care about abusing public land let alone private. If you dont think that outfitting is a good thing you might as well go to MSLA and become one of them tree huggers who prevent us from logging, mining and any other natural resource. I am not saying that all outfitters are good infact there are several that i would love to see there license taken but that still doesnt make this law a good thing. Let alone think about what this is now going to cost our family that now live out of state to come hunt there home state.
If you guys think that this law helps us DIY hunters, you got it wrong. If you would read the law which Im sure most of you have not, you would see that it does nothing to help the everyday hard working hunter. Infact I have had more hunts screwed up by people who dont want to hire a guide and who dont care if they are driving in a resticted area and who dont care about abusing public land let alone private. If you dont think that outfitting is a good thing you might as well go to MSLA and become one of them tree huggers who prevent us from logging, mining and any other natural resource. I am not saying that all outfitters are good infact there are several that i would love to see there license taken but that still doesnt make this law a good thing. Let alone think about what this is now going to cost our family that now live out of state to come hunt there home state.
NeMont
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 12,632
LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-10 AT 09:25AM (MST)[p]Rutt,
I didn't support I161 because it didn't require resident hunters to fund more of their own access and a few other problems I have with it.
I also never believed it will open up private lands to the average Joe hunter.
However the Outfitting industry has nobody but themselves to blame. Once guaranteed Oufitter Sponsore Licenses came into being the Outfitting industry mostly turned a deaf ear to resident hunters concerns. They owned the legislature and still do. The industry refused to police their own ranks and continued to lease up more and more property.
The biggest issue is that every big game animal is held in trust by the State of Montana for all residents of the state not just landowners and not just outfitters. That doctrine is settled law and written into our Constitution. A majority of people of this state decided to end the way tags are awarded to a minority of Montana businesses. Right, wrong or indifferent when somebody builds their business model around a publicly owned resource they cannot gripe too much when the public decides that different priorities should apply.
I am not anti outfitter and was not a supporter of I161 and know many quality people who run quality Outfitting businesses. I bet those guys get bigger and make even more money than before. I bet they lease up even more land and turn part of their operation into a pay per day operation and make better returns on their investment than fully outfitted hunts.
Nemont
I didn't support I161 because it didn't require resident hunters to fund more of their own access and a few other problems I have with it.
I also never believed it will open up private lands to the average Joe hunter.
However the Outfitting industry has nobody but themselves to blame. Once guaranteed Oufitter Sponsore Licenses came into being the Outfitting industry mostly turned a deaf ear to resident hunters concerns. They owned the legislature and still do. The industry refused to police their own ranks and continued to lease up more and more property.
The biggest issue is that every big game animal is held in trust by the State of Montana for all residents of the state not just landowners and not just outfitters. That doctrine is settled law and written into our Constitution. A majority of people of this state decided to end the way tags are awarded to a minority of Montana businesses. Right, wrong or indifferent when somebody builds their business model around a publicly owned resource they cannot gripe too much when the public decides that different priorities should apply.
I am not anti outfitter and was not a supporter of I161 and know many quality people who run quality Outfitting businesses. I bet those guys get bigger and make even more money than before. I bet they lease up even more land and turn part of their operation into a pay per day operation and make better returns on their investment than fully outfitted hunts.
Nemont
2011 Nonresident Combination License Annual Rule
With the passage of Initiative 161 on November 2nd, changes to many sections of Title 87 of the Montana Codes Annotated will impact FWP?s Annual Rule for the sale of Nonresident Combination Licenses. The Initiative abolishes the Nonresident Variable Priced Outfitter Sponsored licenses, moves their quota to the General drawing category, and increases the General Nonresident Combination license fees. To reflect the new law, the proposed Annual Rule increases the license fees to $912 for Class B-10 Nonresident Big Game Combination licenses, $542 for Class B-11 Nonresident Deer Combination licenses (both prices include the required $5 drawing fee and $10 hunting access enhancement fee), and $458.50 for the Nonresident Youth Big Game Combination licenses (half price of the Class B-10 Nonresident Big Game Combination plus the $10 hunting access enhancement fee). Since this will become law on March 1, 2011, the Commission has no action to take on these issues. The Commission has the authority to set the fee for the B-10 Elk Combination license. The proposed Annual Rule reflects a B-10 Elk Combination license fee of $812. (The fee includes the required $5 drawing fee and $10 hunting access enhancement fee). Comments are due Dec 3rd . Send email to [email protected] , or via mail to: Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, Licensing Division, PO Box 200701, Helena, MT 59620-0701.
Brian
http://i25.tinypic.com/fxbjgy.jpg[/IMG]
With the passage of Initiative 161 on November 2nd, changes to many sections of Title 87 of the Montana Codes Annotated will impact FWP?s Annual Rule for the sale of Nonresident Combination Licenses. The Initiative abolishes the Nonresident Variable Priced Outfitter Sponsored licenses, moves their quota to the General drawing category, and increases the General Nonresident Combination license fees. To reflect the new law, the proposed Annual Rule increases the license fees to $912 for Class B-10 Nonresident Big Game Combination licenses, $542 for Class B-11 Nonresident Deer Combination licenses (both prices include the required $5 drawing fee and $10 hunting access enhancement fee), and $458.50 for the Nonresident Youth Big Game Combination licenses (half price of the Class B-10 Nonresident Big Game Combination plus the $10 hunting access enhancement fee). Since this will become law on March 1, 2011, the Commission has no action to take on these issues. The Commission has the authority to set the fee for the B-10 Elk Combination license. The proposed Annual Rule reflects a B-10 Elk Combination license fee of $812. (The fee includes the required $5 drawing fee and $10 hunting access enhancement fee). Comments are due Dec 3rd . Send email to [email protected] , or via mail to: Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, Licensing Division, PO Box 200701, Helena, MT 59620-0701.
Brian
http://i25.tinypic.com/fxbjgy.jpg[/IMG]
N
NONYAMT
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-10 AT 04:20PM (MST)[p]The law is here so you will just have to deal with it,if you cant,go somewhere else,the rest of us will enjoy hunting the spreads that end up open to us because the fly by night wanna b outfitts that depended on the free tags they were given to stay in buisness and leased up places that WERE in block managent will have to go back to flippin burgers or whatever else they did before the state started this welfare program for outfitters that we just did away with.With the higher prices fewer people will use the outfitters,but there will be plenty of them to keep the good outfitts busy.
J
jchisum
Guest
Just got back from Montana last Tuesday from our every other year DIY Elk/Deer trip. Got a nice mulie but no elk. Anyway the upshot of this new law is going to be that my partners and I will start getting more serious about hunting other states and frequent mt less which is too bad because I like the place adn the folks. And like some others mentioned it now looks like a bit of a bargain to hunt MT with an outfitter rather than diy. unfortunately that will be very bad for the nice folks that run hotels and cabin rentals and look to hunting season to get them through winter. and the folks that run cafes and diners. access will be changed very little but the shift in out of staters will be away from the average guy to the upscale guy. and the MT locals like some who've posted on here will be even more p-d off because outfitters, landowners adn fwp will cater to where the money is. MT's economy isn't booming with solid jobs that pay lots of money and between this thing and the destruction wolves are doing, some folks are going to wind up changing their way of life in the fall up there. for economic reasons...
N
NONYAMT
Guest
Its nice to see all you out of staters have our state figured out and know whats best for us native Montanans...there are plenty of guys willing to spend a couple extra bucks and take your place because you arnt willing to pay the same exact amount your states charge us to hunt here....the couple days a year you all spend in our state must have been very insightful.
I am a non resident hunter as well, but I will continue to hunt in Montana. It is a great state and lots of game compared to other states. I do not think the new law will have much effect on the hunting or the economy during the fall, I believe outfitters will still lease ranches. The non residents who were going with outfitters thru the outfitter sponsored will still turn in and go with outfitters. It will actually be cheaper for them as stated in an above post. Each state has the right to set their hunting tag/license prices.
One thing I hope will me minimized by the passing of the Bill is the abuse of wealthy out-of-state landowners that relied on those guaranteed tags. Seems that having a pocket full of tags for friends and family got more than one group in hot water here in Montana. Some of these landowners were treating our state as a personal hunting playground. I voted against it, but I took time to think it through, not like the last knee-jerk vote I cast on a different "hunting" issue. mtmuley
My state charges $138.00 for Non resident tag. Not that people are swarming the state for our sorry deer herd tags. Your old prices were expensive to some already. Now they jacked them up $200 to $280 per licensed. That is a significant amount. I don't believe the other western states jacked up their tags that much. How would you feel if you wanted to go out east on a dream hunt and they raised rates that much. This law sounds like it is anti outfitter and anti Non resident. Why would I come to Montana now when I can go to other western states for $200 cheaper and draw a tag more often???? Just my 2 cents worth.
N
NONYAMT
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-10 AT 07:01PM (MST)[p]Compare what MT has to offer and try to tell me its not worth every penny.If you dont want to pay,go elsewhere,others will enjoy the better odds of drawing when you dont apply.You dont sell all your elk tags because your elk hunting in general has gone to #####(wolves).I dont cry when Nevada charges MUCH more for a deer tag,its not my home state and Ill pay whatever they charge for the opportunity.If its too expensive go down to walmart and fill your freezer with beef,stay home and increase everyone elses odds of getting a chance to hunt here,there will always be more applicants than tags,we will be making more money off the tags we sell and that money is used to insure the future of hunting here.The days of MT being the cheap alternative are over,the days of outfitter welfare programs are over,and they lasted way too long.
D
Dreaminbig
Guest
But the days of some of my fellow Montanans being extremely stupid are alive and well. This initative was absolutely Anti Outfitter, Anti-nonresident and Anti-rancher. And when it all shakes out guys like nonyamt will be wondering why things have changed for the worse.
N
NONYAMT
Guest
We are a ranching family with a family member sitting on the F&G commision,how was this anti rancher?.The measure was pro resident,pro nonresident and pro hunting,keeping our heritage alive and well.The only residents crying about it are the ones that have been making a killing off those free tags they sold at overpriced rates to non residents.Things are already improving,several fly by night outfitter operations are releasing lands they have had locked down for many years and some of those will be enlisted in the block managment program next fall,the F&G is activly recruiting these released properties into the program.
My point is not everyone is rich. Making a trip out west for some of us is a once every couple year trip. I agree that it may be worth the extra money but some people it will turn away. I already have some pts built up for Montana so I may be hooked in already. With the economy down its already bad for western states whether you are an outfitter or a corner gas station; I believe it will hurt your business. Yes you will have it more to yourself. Some people like myself will try and spend our money where it is cheaper for a tag. Western states have more to offer for hunting than anywhere else in the states and they make most of their money from Non resident licence sales. All the states are overpriced in my opinion. I guess they have to weed out applicants some how. MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT STAYS HOME!Enjoy.
BuzzH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,202
MITROLL,
While I somewhat agree with you regarding the tag fees getting higher in most Western States...I think you need to look big-picture.
Its a jump of 2-3 hundred dollars for a license. Thats chump change for most everyone that chooses to hunt out of state. You could literally shovel snow on your neighbors sidewalk to make up the difference. Its as simple as saving, and/or coming up with a 20 dollar bill a month to cover the increase. IMO, if you're cutting it that close, you probably shouldnt go.
I agree that there is a breaking point, I just dont think we're there yet.
The average guys I know that hunt MT, WY, etc. as NR's arent wealthy, they just prioritize whats important to them, make sacrifices on other things, and they continue to hunt every year.
While I somewhat agree with you regarding the tag fees getting higher in most Western States...I think you need to look big-picture.
Its a jump of 2-3 hundred dollars for a license. Thats chump change for most everyone that chooses to hunt out of state. You could literally shovel snow on your neighbors sidewalk to make up the difference. Its as simple as saving, and/or coming up with a 20 dollar bill a month to cover the increase. IMO, if you're cutting it that close, you probably shouldnt go.
I agree that there is a breaking point, I just dont think we're there yet.
The average guys I know that hunt MT, WY, etc. as NR's arent wealthy, they just prioritize whats important to them, make sacrifices on other things, and they continue to hunt every year.
lostinOregon
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,012
I agree with what Buzz said. I know a few ranchers in eastern Montana who I have been friends with for years. If the residents think for one second that if they loose their leases and payments from outfitters that they will all of sudden let every resident come on for free their smoking crack. It may open some block management as they still need money to make there cow operations work, but for free like it was back in the early 80's they are kidding themselves. The areas that I hunt after opening weekend the deer/antelope are run off the block management ranches onto the next door neighbors places.
I also have hunted Montana for the last 20 years or so, I have seen a significant drop in numbers and quality of deer. Montana may think they have a corner on the NR market, but Wyoming and Colorado are much better deals in quality and quantity. This is simply another attack on NR's and outfitters.
I was asked the other day by a friend about how my out of state hunting was going. I thought about it for a minute and it seems like everytime I turn around another state is sticking it to me. I get that I don't live or pay taxes in those states, but what I do bring is my money when I am in that state and buy food, gas, lodging and supplies. There will come a breaking point where guys like myself will stop hunting in some states. I hear guys on posts say that if you want to hunt in my state then pay up. I don't think that the this country was founded upon the premis that you have to pay an extraordinary amount of money to hunt out of your home state. Keep attacking NR's in all states and pretty soon our hunting heratige will be gone and that is a sad thing that I don't want to see.
Rich
I also have hunted Montana for the last 20 years or so, I have seen a significant drop in numbers and quality of deer. Montana may think they have a corner on the NR market, but Wyoming and Colorado are much better deals in quality and quantity. This is simply another attack on NR's and outfitters.
I was asked the other day by a friend about how my out of state hunting was going. I thought about it for a minute and it seems like everytime I turn around another state is sticking it to me. I get that I don't live or pay taxes in those states, but what I do bring is my money when I am in that state and buy food, gas, lodging and supplies. There will come a breaking point where guys like myself will stop hunting in some states. I hear guys on posts say that if you want to hunt in my state then pay up. I don't think that the this country was founded upon the premis that you have to pay an extraordinary amount of money to hunt out of your home state. Keep attacking NR's in all states and pretty soon our hunting heratige will be gone and that is a sad thing that I don't want to see.
Rich
S
skipbuck
Guest
Rich,
The people have spoke and they do not want your out of state money spent in the small communities, they just want you to send your $912 check to the state to fix the go back in time machine.
Funny how the pro 161 crowd calls the outfitter tags welfare, when many outfitters had to buy the right to sell the tags and promote the state.The block managment program is welfare. Ranchers do not owe the Montana residents anything.
Did I-161 provide a back up plan for when the deer/elk combo goes unsold and the fwp goes broke?
The people have spoke and they do not want your out of state money spent in the small communities, they just want you to send your $912 check to the state to fix the go back in time machine.
Funny how the pro 161 crowd calls the outfitter tags welfare, when many outfitters had to buy the right to sell the tags and promote the state.The block managment program is welfare. Ranchers do not owe the Montana residents anything.
Did I-161 provide a back up plan for when the deer/elk combo goes unsold and the fwp goes broke?
S
STeW_GUN
Guest
My issue with the increase in tags fees isn't with the amount, it's with the sequence of the draw. The general tags aren't worth the expense but you have to have one to get into the big show(drawing). MT's limited entry units have good quality, let me draw my unit in the initial drawing and you can even tack on another $100.00 bucks and I will still put in.
N
NONYAMT
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10 AT 03:31PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10 AT 03:27?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10 AT 02:58?PM (MST)
Exactly,more of the BS will stay home,everyone wins,except for the halfass outfitters who have somehow decided they are the only industry in the state that should be gauranteed income,if they are good at what they do it wont effect them at all,peopple will still draw and outfitters will still be hired,Im sure their rates will reflect their loss of income from the free tags they were so used to.Some of them shouldnt be crying at all I saw several returning unsold outfitter tags to the main office last season,seems people had already decided they were charging too much.The block managment program is the F&G using our tag money to lease hunting privlidges from land owners for the general public,resident and non.Giving free tags to people who sell them to nons for insane amounts of money without a single dollar of that money going back into the F&G program WAS welfare,obviously some of you are or were outfitters,guess its time to get a real job like the rest of us.You dont HAVE to enter the limited draw,there are tons of places you can hunt with general tags with great trophy potential,if you expect a crack at a 170" deer every year you better start putting in for CO.They dont have to let them on for free if they choose to enter the program the F&G pays damn good money for the lease,in many cases just as much as an outfitter,the downside being more people on the property and more game harvested.The F&G takes responsability for the access if the land owner chooses to go that route,issuing daily permits through one of the main offices and regulating the number of hunters per day ect.There are MANY spreads open to hunters that never were before this program was concieved and dont let anyone convince you every land owner in the state would rather lease to an outfitter than be in the program,many of them have expressed less than favorable opinions while discussing the program,many want to make sure outfitters CANT hunt their place.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10 AT 02:58?PM (MST)
Exactly,more of the BS will stay home,everyone wins,except for the halfass outfitters who have somehow decided they are the only industry in the state that should be gauranteed income,if they are good at what they do it wont effect them at all,peopple will still draw and outfitters will still be hired,Im sure their rates will reflect their loss of income from the free tags they were so used to.Some of them shouldnt be crying at all I saw several returning unsold outfitter tags to the main office last season,seems people had already decided they were charging too much.The block managment program is the F&G using our tag money to lease hunting privlidges from land owners for the general public,resident and non.Giving free tags to people who sell them to nons for insane amounts of money without a single dollar of that money going back into the F&G program WAS welfare,obviously some of you are or were outfitters,guess its time to get a real job like the rest of us.You dont HAVE to enter the limited draw,there are tons of places you can hunt with general tags with great trophy potential,if you expect a crack at a 170" deer every year you better start putting in for CO.They dont have to let them on for free if they choose to enter the program the F&G pays damn good money for the lease,in many cases just as much as an outfitter,the downside being more people on the property and more game harvested.The F&G takes responsability for the access if the land owner chooses to go that route,issuing daily permits through one of the main offices and regulating the number of hunters per day ect.There are MANY spreads open to hunters that never were before this program was concieved and dont let anyone convince you every land owner in the state would rather lease to an outfitter than be in the program,many of them have expressed less than favorable opinions while discussing the program,many want to make sure outfitters CANT hunt their place.
S
skipbuck
Guest
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>AT 03:31?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>AT 03:27?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>AT 02:58?PM (MST)
>
>Exactly,more of the BS will stay
>home,everyone wins,except for the halfass
>outfitters who have somehow decided
>they are the only industry
>in the state that should
>be gauranteed income,if they are
>good at what they do
>it wont effect them at
>all,peopple will still draw and
>outfitters will still be hired,Im
>sure their rates will reflect
>their loss of income from
>the free tags they were
>so used to.Some of them
>shouldnt be crying at all
>I saw several returning unsold
>outfitter tags to the main
>office last season,seems people had
>already decided they were charging
>too much.The block managment program
>is the F&G using our
>tag money to lease hunting
>privlidges from land owners for
>the general public,resident and non.Giving
>free tags to people who
>sell them to nons for
>insane amounts of money without
>a single dollar of that
>money going back into the
>F&G program WAS welfare,obviously some
>of you are or were
>outfitters,guess its time to get
>a real job like the
>rest of us.You dont HAVE
>to enter the limited draw,there
>are tons of places you
>can hunt with general tags
>with great trophy potential,if you
>expect a crack at a
>170" deer every year you
>better start putting in for
>CO.They dont have to let
>them on for free if
>they choose to enter the
>program the F&G pays damn
>good money for the lease,in
>many cases just as much
>as an outfitter,the downside being
>more people on the property
>and more game harvested.The F&G
>takes responsability for the access
>if the land owner chooses
>to go that route,issuing daily
>permits through one of the
>main offices and regulating the
>number of hunters per day
>ect.There are MANY spreads open
>to hunters that never were
>before this program was concieved
>and dont let anyone convince
>you every land owner in
>the state would rather lease
>to an outfitter than be
>in the program,many of them
>have expressed less than favorable
>opinions while discussing the program,many
>want to make sure outfitters
>CANT hunt their place.
Wow... I think we found the guy who wrote the bill.
>AT 03:31?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>AT 03:27?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>AT 02:58?PM (MST)
>
>Exactly,more of the BS will stay
>home,everyone wins,except for the halfass
>outfitters who have somehow decided
>they are the only industry
>in the state that should
>be gauranteed income,if they are
>good at what they do
>it wont effect them at
>all,peopple will still draw and
>outfitters will still be hired,Im
>sure their rates will reflect
>their loss of income from
>the free tags they were
>so used to.Some of them
>shouldnt be crying at all
>I saw several returning unsold
>outfitter tags to the main
>office last season,seems people had
>already decided they were charging
>too much.The block managment program
>is the F&G using our
>tag money to lease hunting
>privlidges from land owners for
>the general public,resident and non.Giving
>free tags to people who
>sell them to nons for
>insane amounts of money without
>a single dollar of that
>money going back into the
>F&G program WAS welfare,obviously some
>of you are or were
>outfitters,guess its time to get
>a real job like the
>rest of us.You dont HAVE
>to enter the limited draw,there
>are tons of places you
>can hunt with general tags
>with great trophy potential,if you
>expect a crack at a
>170" deer every year you
>better start putting in for
>CO.They dont have to let
>them on for free if
>they choose to enter the
>program the F&G pays damn
>good money for the lease,in
>many cases just as much
>as an outfitter,the downside being
>more people on the property
>and more game harvested.The F&G
>takes responsability for the access
>if the land owner chooses
>to go that route,issuing daily
>permits through one of the
>main offices and regulating the
>number of hunters per day
>ect.There are MANY spreads open
>to hunters that never were
>before this program was concieved
>and dont let anyone convince
>you every land owner in
>the state would rather lease
>to an outfitter than be
>in the program,many of them
>have expressed less than favorable
>opinions while discussing the program,many
>want to make sure outfitters
>CANT hunt their place.
Wow... I think we found the guy who wrote the bill.
N
NONYAMT
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-10 AT 04:00PM (MST)[p]Nope the guy who voted for it.One of many thousand sportsman who did,despite the outfitter lawyers efforts to get it thrown out before we had a chance to decide,their claims that it was an illegal ballot right before the vote showed exactly what kind of people they really are.They would take away your right to vote on a measure to keep the money pouring in,money they use to buy off the legislators that got them the sponsored tags many years ago.This state is still run as a democracy and the vote was legal.If you cant handle the way our state controls our hunting go outfit in another state,apply for tags in another state,live in another state,crying about it will change nothing.Its nice to know that pics like jackie bushman and his crew will have to apply for tags just like everyone else this next year,sick and tired of watching their hunting shows listening to them brag about having a montan "ranch" and having elk and deer tags gauranteed.
BUZZH: Your right about the extra increase. I guess everytime you see an increase in anything it just irks you. Sure I can save an extra couple bills here and there. Its funny you mention snow. We just got dumped on here in Michigan. I was on my tractor plowing my mothers driveway, mine and the neighbors 2 days in a row. It was -15 wind chill and about 7 actual temp. The neighbor gave me $20. LOL. I'm not saving up for a hunt doing that bullshit. I'll find some other way.
R
RaghornHS
Guest
Here's my take on things...Nevada charges $1,200 for a NR elk tag. Wyoming charges $1,067. Utah charges $800 for a limited entry tag and $1,500 for a premium limited entry tag.
If I have to pay $900 for an elk AND a deer tag in Montana, I'm doing it. I have no problem with that price.
I do think the deer combination license fee is a bit high. My hunch is MTFWP would rather sell more combination licenses anyway, so it makes sense to have that deer license a bit on the pricey side. It is what it is.
Raghorn Hunting Services
www.raghornhuntingservices.com
[email protected]
If I have to pay $900 for an elk AND a deer tag in Montana, I'm doing it. I have no problem with that price.
I do think the deer combination license fee is a bit high. My hunch is MTFWP would rather sell more combination licenses anyway, so it makes sense to have that deer license a bit on the pricey side. It is what it is.
Raghorn Hunting Services
www.raghornhuntingservices.com
[email protected]
D
Dreaminbig
Guest
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>AT 03:31?PM (MST)
>>
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>AT 03:27?PM (MST)
>>
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>AT 02:58?PM (MST)
>>
>>Exactly,more of the BS will stay
>>home,everyone wins,except for the halfass
>>outfitters who have somehow decided
>>they are the only industry
>>in the state that should
>>be gauranteed income,if they are
>>good at what they do
>>it wont effect them at
>>all,peopple will still draw and
>>outfitters will still be hired,Im
>>sure their rates will reflect
>>their loss of income from
>>the free tags they were
>>so used to.Some of them
>>shouldnt be crying at all
>>I saw several returning unsold
>>outfitter tags to the main
>>office last season,seems people had
>>already decided they were charging
>>too much.The block managment program
>>is the F&G using our
>>tag money to lease hunting
>>privlidges from land owners for
>>the general public,resident and non.Giving
>>free tags to people who
>>sell them to nons for
>>insane amounts of money without
>>a single dollar of that
>>money going back into the
>>F&G program WAS welfare,obviously some
>>of you are or were
>>outfitters,guess its time to get
>>a real job like the
>>rest of us.You dont HAVE
>>to enter the limited draw,there
>>are tons of places you
>>can hunt with general tags
>>with great trophy potential,if you
>>expect a crack at a
>>170" deer every year you
>>better start putting in for
>>CO.They dont have to let
>>them on for free if
>>they choose to enter the
>>program the F&G pays damn
>>good money for the lease,in
>>many cases just as much
>>as an outfitter,the downside being
>>more people on the property
>>and more game harvested.The F&G
>>takes responsability for the access
>>if the land owner chooses
>>to go that route,issuing daily
>>permits through one of the
>>main offices and regulating the
>>number of hunters per day
>>ect.There are MANY spreads open
>>to hunters that never were
>>before this program was concieved
>>and dont let anyone convince
>>you every land owner in
>>the state would rather lease
>>to an outfitter than be
>>in the program,many of them
>>have expressed less than favorable
>>opinions while discussing the program,many
>>want to make sure outfitters
>>CANT hunt their place.
>
>
>This post shows exactly how little you know. The outfitters in Montana don't get licenses to hand out so it would be impossible for them to walk into the local FWP office to return them. Also block management pays pennies on the dollar to what outfitterss or other hunters pay to lease land for.
Lastly show me were a penny of the money you personally paid for a tag went into paying for block management. Those, as you seem to think horrible, non resident hunters who hunted with an outfitter and bought overpriced hunting license beared the lions share of the cost. If you want to talk welfare Block management should be considered welfare. Other people paying you for hunting that they will never get to do. If you are such a stand up guy then fling open the gates to your ranch and let people hunt for free, don't take money from fish wildlife and parks. Let them spend that money on other projects and habitat improvement on public land!!!!!!! >I could go on an on with you on this. At least I know my vote canceled yours out. I get your opinion on this even though I think you are completely wrong.
>>AT 03:31?PM (MST)
>>
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>AT 03:27?PM (MST)
>>
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>AT 02:58?PM (MST)
>>
>>Exactly,more of the BS will stay
>>home,everyone wins,except for the halfass
>>outfitters who have somehow decided
>>they are the only industry
>>in the state that should
>>be gauranteed income,if they are
>>good at what they do
>>it wont effect them at
>>all,peopple will still draw and
>>outfitters will still be hired,Im
>>sure their rates will reflect
>>their loss of income from
>>the free tags they were
>>so used to.Some of them
>>shouldnt be crying at all
>>I saw several returning unsold
>>outfitter tags to the main
>>office last season,seems people had
>>already decided they were charging
>>too much.The block managment program
>>is the F&G using our
>>tag money to lease hunting
>>privlidges from land owners for
>>the general public,resident and non.Giving
>>free tags to people who
>>sell them to nons for
>>insane amounts of money without
>>a single dollar of that
>>money going back into the
>>F&G program WAS welfare,obviously some
>>of you are or were
>>outfitters,guess its time to get
>>a real job like the
>>rest of us.You dont HAVE
>>to enter the limited draw,there
>>are tons of places you
>>can hunt with general tags
>>with great trophy potential,if you
>>expect a crack at a
>>170" deer every year you
>>better start putting in for
>>CO.They dont have to let
>>them on for free if
>>they choose to enter the
>>program the F&G pays damn
>>good money for the lease,in
>>many cases just as much
>>as an outfitter,the downside being
>>more people on the property
>>and more game harvested.The F&G
>>takes responsability for the access
>>if the land owner chooses
>>to go that route,issuing daily
>>permits through one of the
>>main offices and regulating the
>>number of hunters per day
>>ect.There are MANY spreads open
>>to hunters that never were
>>before this program was concieved
>>and dont let anyone convince
>>you every land owner in
>>the state would rather lease
>>to an outfitter than be
>>in the program,many of them
>>have expressed less than favorable
>>opinions while discussing the program,many
>>want to make sure outfitters
>>CANT hunt their place.
>
>
>This post shows exactly how little you know. The outfitters in Montana don't get licenses to hand out so it would be impossible for them to walk into the local FWP office to return them. Also block management pays pennies on the dollar to what outfitterss or other hunters pay to lease land for.
Lastly show me were a penny of the money you personally paid for a tag went into paying for block management. Those, as you seem to think horrible, non resident hunters who hunted with an outfitter and bought overpriced hunting license beared the lions share of the cost. If you want to talk welfare Block management should be considered welfare. Other people paying you for hunting that they will never get to do. If you are such a stand up guy then fling open the gates to your ranch and let people hunt for free, don't take money from fish wildlife and parks. Let them spend that money on other projects and habitat improvement on public land!!!!!!! >I could go on an on with you on this. At least I know my vote canceled yours out. I get your opinion on this even though I think you are completely wrong.
N
NONYAMT
Guest
>>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>>AT 03:31?PM (MST)
>>>
>>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>>AT 03:27?PM (MST)
>>>
>>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>>AT 02:58?PM (MST)
>>>
>>>Exactly,more of the BS will stay
>>>home,everyone wins,except for the halfass
>>>outfitters who have somehow decided
>>>they are the only industry
>>>in the state that should
>>>be gauranteed income,if they are
>>>good at what they do
>>>it wont effect them at
>>>all,peopple will still draw and
>>>outfitters will still be hired,Im
>>>sure their rates will reflect
>>>their loss of income from
>>>the free tags they were
>>>so used to.Some of them
>>>shouldnt be crying at all
>>>I saw several returning unsold
>>>outfitter tags to the main
>>>office last season,seems people had
>>>already decided they were charging
>>>too much.The block managment program
>>>is the F&G using our
>>>tag money to lease hunting
>>>privlidges from land owners for
>>>the general public,resident and non.Giving
>>>free tags to people who
>>>sell them to nons for
>>>insane amounts of money without
>>>a single dollar of that
>>>money going back into the
>>>F&G program WAS welfare,obviously some
>>>of you are or were
>>>outfitters,guess its time to get
>>>a real job like the
>>>rest of us.You dont HAVE
>>>to enter the limited draw,there
>>>are tons of places you
>>>can hunt with general tags
>>>with great trophy potential,if you
>>>expect a crack at a
>>>170" deer every year you
>>>better start putting in for
>>>CO.They dont have to let
>>>them on for free if
>>>they choose to enter the
>>>program the F&G pays damn
>>>good money for the lease,in
>>>many cases just as much
>>>as an outfitter,the downside being
>>>more people on the property
>>>and more game harvested.The F&G
>>>takes responsability for the access
>>>if the land owner chooses
>>>to go that route,issuing daily
>>>permits through one of the
>>>main offices and regulating the
>>>number of hunters per day
>>>ect.There are MANY spreads open
>>>to hunters that never were
>>>before this program was concieved
>>>and dont let anyone convince
>>>you every land owner in
>>>the state would rather lease
>>>to an outfitter than be
>>>in the program,many of them
>>>have expressed less than favorable
>>>opinions while discussing the program,many
>>>want to make sure outfitters
>>>CANT hunt their place.
>>
>>
>>This post shows exactly how little you know. The outfitters in Montana don't get licenses to hand out so it would be impossible for them to walk into the local FWP office to return them. Also block management pays pennies on the dollar to what outfitterss or other hunters pay to lease land for.
>Lastly show me were a penny of the money you personally paid for a tag went into paying for block management. Those, as you seem to think horrible, non resident hunters who hunted with an outfitter and bought overpriced hunting license beared the lions share of the cost. If you want to talk welfare Block management should be considered welfare. Other people paying you for hunting that they will never get to do. If you are such a stand up guy then fling open the gates to your ranch and let people hunt for free, don't take money from fish wildlife and parks. Let them spend that money on other projects and habitat improvement on public land!!!!!!! >I could go on an on with you on this. At least I know my vote canceled yours out. I get your opinion on this even though I think you are completely wrong.
We do let people who draw big bull tags hunt our place,we dont get one ever year and our place holds some monsters.We have never recieved any money for hunting access.You obviously had a personal stake in this and cant handle defeat,you didnt cancel out the other several thousand people who voted this great bill through so dont get excited.Go down to the state office and sign up for welfare,its the only handouts you bums will be getting from here on out.
>>>AT 03:31?PM (MST)
>>>
>>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>>AT 03:27?PM (MST)
>>>
>>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-10
>>>AT 02:58?PM (MST)
>>>
>>>Exactly,more of the BS will stay
>>>home,everyone wins,except for the halfass
>>>outfitters who have somehow decided
>>>they are the only industry
>>>in the state that should
>>>be gauranteed income,if they are
>>>good at what they do
>>>it wont effect them at
>>>all,peopple will still draw and
>>>outfitters will still be hired,Im
>>>sure their rates will reflect
>>>their loss of income from
>>>the free tags they were
>>>so used to.Some of them
>>>shouldnt be crying at all
>>>I saw several returning unsold
>>>outfitter tags to the main
>>>office last season,seems people had
>>>already decided they were charging
>>>too much.The block managment program
>>>is the F&G using our
>>>tag money to lease hunting
>>>privlidges from land owners for
>>>the general public,resident and non.Giving
>>>free tags to people who
>>>sell them to nons for
>>>insane amounts of money without
>>>a single dollar of that
>>>money going back into the
>>>F&G program WAS welfare,obviously some
>>>of you are or were
>>>outfitters,guess its time to get
>>>a real job like the
>>>rest of us.You dont HAVE
>>>to enter the limited draw,there
>>>are tons of places you
>>>can hunt with general tags
>>>with great trophy potential,if you
>>>expect a crack at a
>>>170" deer every year you
>>>better start putting in for
>>>CO.They dont have to let
>>>them on for free if
>>>they choose to enter the
>>>program the F&G pays damn
>>>good money for the lease,in
>>>many cases just as much
>>>as an outfitter,the downside being
>>>more people on the property
>>>and more game harvested.The F&G
>>>takes responsability for the access
>>>if the land owner chooses
>>>to go that route,issuing daily
>>>permits through one of the
>>>main offices and regulating the
>>>number of hunters per day
>>>ect.There are MANY spreads open
>>>to hunters that never were
>>>before this program was concieved
>>>and dont let anyone convince
>>>you every land owner in
>>>the state would rather lease
>>>to an outfitter than be
>>>in the program,many of them
>>>have expressed less than favorable
>>>opinions while discussing the program,many
>>>want to make sure outfitters
>>>CANT hunt their place.
>>
>>
>>This post shows exactly how little you know. The outfitters in Montana don't get licenses to hand out so it would be impossible for them to walk into the local FWP office to return them. Also block management pays pennies on the dollar to what outfitterss or other hunters pay to lease land for.
>Lastly show me were a penny of the money you personally paid for a tag went into paying for block management. Those, as you seem to think horrible, non resident hunters who hunted with an outfitter and bought overpriced hunting license beared the lions share of the cost. If you want to talk welfare Block management should be considered welfare. Other people paying you for hunting that they will never get to do. If you are such a stand up guy then fling open the gates to your ranch and let people hunt for free, don't take money from fish wildlife and parks. Let them spend that money on other projects and habitat improvement on public land!!!!!!! >I could go on an on with you on this. At least I know my vote canceled yours out. I get your opinion on this even though I think you are completely wrong.
We do let people who draw big bull tags hunt our place,we dont get one ever year and our place holds some monsters.We have never recieved any money for hunting access.You obviously had a personal stake in this and cant handle defeat,you didnt cancel out the other several thousand people who voted this great bill through so dont get excited.Go down to the state office and sign up for welfare,its the only handouts you bums will be getting from here on out.
N
NONYAMT
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-10 AT 01:36PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-10 AT 01:35?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-10 AT 01:34?PM (MST)
Just watched a muley hunting show from this fall with aN OUTFITTER from Wy hunting both states bragging about how you should call now to get his guaranteed tags for MT,guess they forgot to edit the show for the 2011 rules...idiots probably have to tell the story 1000 times as the calls come in.
Turns out they are actually from CANADA,this is exactly why the money spent on outfitters does not stay in our state,MANY of them dont even live here,they lease here,kill the game and leave.Id rather have the DIY guy coming here,spending their money in the small communitys for lodging/food/gas/ect,that money stays here.They wont be selling deer tags in MT this next year,good riddance
.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-10 AT 01:34?PM (MST)
Just watched a muley hunting show from this fall with aN OUTFITTER from Wy hunting both states bragging about how you should call now to get his guaranteed tags for MT,guess they forgot to edit the show for the 2011 rules...idiots probably have to tell the story 1000 times as the calls come in.
Turns out they are actually from CANADA,this is exactly why the money spent on outfitters does not stay in our state,MANY of them dont even live here,they lease here,kill the game and leave.Id rather have the DIY guy coming here,spending their money in the small communitys for lodging/food/gas/ect,that money stays here.They wont be selling deer tags in MT this next year,good riddance
.
B
blackmax
Guest
I think it's great,it will do away with some of these POS outfitters we have up here
N
NONYAMT
Guest
A whole bunch of MT sportsmen agree with you.
D
Dreaminbig
Guest
Wow and you called me a Jackass?????????
B
blackmax
Guest
You are a JACKASS.Why dont you give it up you and all your outfitting buddies lost.DEAL WITH IT.
npaden
Active Member
- Messages
- 878
>Here's my take on things...Nevada charges
>$1,200 for a NR elk
>tag. Wyoming charges $1,067. Utah
>charges $800 for a limited
>entry tag and $1,500 for
>a premium limited entry tag.
That's twisting the facts a little bit. A Wyoming elk tag is $577 + a $14 application fee for a regular tag.
You can elect to pay for a "special" tag that puts you in a different class that theoretically has better drawing odds and that tag is $1,057 + a $14 application fee.
Wyoming also has special nonresident youth pricing that is only $275 for an elk tag.
I still haven't seen for sure how much the new "come home to hunt" tag is going to be for deer only. I about had my brother talked into doing it at the old prices but I don't think I will get him to come back to hunt Montana if it is going to be over $500 for a deer license.
>$1,200 for a NR elk
>tag. Wyoming charges $1,067. Utah
>charges $800 for a limited
>entry tag and $1,500 for
>a premium limited entry tag.
That's twisting the facts a little bit. A Wyoming elk tag is $577 + a $14 application fee for a regular tag.
You can elect to pay for a "special" tag that puts you in a different class that theoretically has better drawing odds and that tag is $1,057 + a $14 application fee.
Wyoming also has special nonresident youth pricing that is only $275 for an elk tag.
I still haven't seen for sure how much the new "come home to hunt" tag is going to be for deer only. I about had my brother talked into doing it at the old prices but I don't think I will get him to come back to hunt Montana if it is going to be over $500 for a deer license.
npaden
Active Member
- Messages
- 878
>I still haven't seen for sure
>how much the new "come
>home to hunt" tag is
>going to be for deer
>only. I about had
>my brother talked into doing
>it at the old prices
>but I don't think I
>will get him to come
>back to hunt Montana if
>it is going to be
>over $500 for a deer
>license.
Did a little looking and the come home to hunt licenses are going to go up as well. Deer is going from $328 to $527 and Elk & Deer from $628 to $897.
I would guess that some of those deer licenses end up unsold for sure.
>how much the new "come
>home to hunt" tag is
>going to be for deer
>only. I about had
>my brother talked into doing
>it at the old prices
>but I don't think I
>will get him to come
>back to hunt Montana if
>it is going to be
>over $500 for a deer
>license.
Did a little looking and the come home to hunt licenses are going to go up as well. Deer is going from $328 to $527 and Elk & Deer from $628 to $897.
I would guess that some of those deer licenses end up unsold for sure.
B
blackmax
Guest
You sound and act just like the POS outfitters we have around here.
canyoncrosser
Active Member
- Messages
- 704
Correct me if I'm wrong, but outfitters were not given tags to sell to their clients and keep the money for themselvs. The State meerly alloted a number of guaranteed tags the clients could draw every year.
Now the clients will just have to go in the draw like other diy nonresidents.
Now the clients will just have to go in the draw like other diy nonresidents.
N
NONYAMT
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-10 AT 07:20PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-10 AT 07:16?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-10 AT 06:56?PM (MST)
Many outfitters charged a "service fee" or a "non refundable deposit" for getting these tags for their clients,they could basically charge whatever they wanted to get these tags for the client,the client payed the F&G the state set price for the tags and the outfitter charged big bucks to allow them to get one of their allotted tags.Yes now everyone is on a level playing field,regardless of how much money your are willing to spend.Most outfitters would charge you $3500 for a 5 day elk hunt if you drew your own tag and $4900 for the guaranteed tag hunt,it wasnt designed to work this way but the greed took over and they sunk themselves,the people of MT saw what it was doing to the sport and did away with the option.This isnt the first change made due to the greed of the outfitters,we used to have a guaranteed elk archery tag in the breaks,outfitters ruined that,used to have a guaranteed archery statewide antelope tag,they ruined that,their greed has taken away many options the resident hunter in MT used to have,at least now they gave something back to the non res who cant afford to pay for an outfitter,that was the whole point of this bill.These tags brought a bad element into the outfitting game in MT,outfitters here used to be looked up to and respected,and they respected others in return,now the majority of them are a scourge that has given the industry a black eye and the people are fed up with them,its about time the sportsman of our state has some representation in the legislature,outfitters have had payed reps in the legislature for many years.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-10 AT 06:56?PM (MST)
Many outfitters charged a "service fee" or a "non refundable deposit" for getting these tags for their clients,they could basically charge whatever they wanted to get these tags for the client,the client payed the F&G the state set price for the tags and the outfitter charged big bucks to allow them to get one of their allotted tags.Yes now everyone is on a level playing field,regardless of how much money your are willing to spend.Most outfitters would charge you $3500 for a 5 day elk hunt if you drew your own tag and $4900 for the guaranteed tag hunt,it wasnt designed to work this way but the greed took over and they sunk themselves,the people of MT saw what it was doing to the sport and did away with the option.This isnt the first change made due to the greed of the outfitters,we used to have a guaranteed elk archery tag in the breaks,outfitters ruined that,used to have a guaranteed archery statewide antelope tag,they ruined that,their greed has taken away many options the resident hunter in MT used to have,at least now they gave something back to the non res who cant afford to pay for an outfitter,that was the whole point of this bill.These tags brought a bad element into the outfitting game in MT,outfitters here used to be looked up to and respected,and they respected others in return,now the majority of them are a scourge that has given the industry a black eye and the people are fed up with them,its about time the sportsman of our state has some representation in the legislature,outfitters have had payed reps in the legislature for many years.
D
Dreaminbig
Guest
Without acting like a 12 yearold and calling people names can you let me know where you get your facts from?
N
NONYAMT
Guest
F&G commision,there are many places you can get this data from if you are interested.We go to all the F&G commision meetings here in Helena and a few out of town,thats theonly place you are going to hear whats really going on and whats being considered.The meeting minutes can be obtained through the F&G,they keep record of every proposal,report,ect.
Montana Hunting Guides & Outfitters
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Mule deer, whitetail, antelope, buffalo, and prairie dogs on private ranch leases totaling about 100,000 acres.
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Vargo Hunting
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