Paul_Crawford
Long Time Member
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- 3,578
If the CO DOW eliminated land vouchers and the 4th seasons, I believe in three or four years we'd start seeing better bucks again. Your thoughts? PC
Just my opinion, but.......
- Thread starter Paul_Crawford
- Start date
Sure it would. And if you had to kill 5 coyotes to get a buck tag we'd have more and bigger bucks too. Unfortunately I don't see either happening. The arguement can be made the early seasons are hard on mature bucks as well. If we want bigger bucks we need more deer which will take better habitat and fewer predators. JMO
Yes but that will NEVER happen. like DW said do what is reasonable/possible. Go shoot some coyotes and increase fawn production.
LO vouchers would be great if they were only for the land they were issued for, then there would be absolutely no issue. Oh and if you lost your points too when buying one.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
LO vouchers would be great if they were only for the land they were issued for, then there would be absolutely no issue. Oh and if you lost your points too when buying one.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
>Once winter range is developed, it
>is lost to game forever.
>
I don't believe this as much as I used to. Do I believe we should plant houses on all available winter habitat? Absolutely not, but I know you've been to Estes this time of year elkduds and have seen what we've all seen. We've also seen the bucks they're killin at night in subdivisions in utah! Our ungulates are amazingly adaptable. So long as they've got groceries, nothin nippin at their heels 24/7/365 and we harvest a sensible number, they can do really well!
Great topic by the way paul.
>is lost to game forever.
>
I don't believe this as much as I used to. Do I believe we should plant houses on all available winter habitat? Absolutely not, but I know you've been to Estes this time of year elkduds and have seen what we've all seen. We've also seen the bucks they're killin at night in subdivisions in utah! Our ungulates are amazingly adaptable. So long as they've got groceries, nothin nippin at their heels 24/7/365 and we harvest a sensible number, they can do really well!
Great topic by the way paul.
ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
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>If the CO DOW eliminated land
>vouchers and the 4th seasons,
>I believe in three or
>four years we'd start seeing
>better bucks again. Your thoughts?
> PC
What do vouchers have to do with buck quality?
I think the minimal number of licenses issued for 4th season have a negligible effect on quality.
>vouchers and the 4th seasons,
>I believe in three or
>four years we'd start seeing
>better bucks again. Your thoughts?
> PC
What do vouchers have to do with buck quality?
I think the minimal number of licenses issued for 4th season have a negligible effect on quality.
Deedub, respectfully disagree somewhat, here's why: The examples you gave are of "zoo" habitat, artificially low or no hunting pressure on summer and winter ranges. I have good bucks in my yard most winter days in CO Springs, but they are basically urban pets, and very inbred.
When 200 elk fall through the ice and die on Blue Mesa Reservoir because it covers their historic wintering ground, I guess that is a Darwinian kind of adaptation, but not a beneficial one. Ditto w roads, trains, dogs. Every wildlife biologist I've spoken w in CO has agreed that shrinking winter range places the most profound limitation on big game herds of any single factor. That is why I mention it here.
In the big winter kill of 07-08, where did the deer die? On what was left of winter range. Sage is better for deer in winter than cow pastures where there is nothing to browse. Where there are good sage lowlands, big game winters well. Reference NW CO, where the huge herds from Flattops and Bear's Ears have vast sage lowlands on which to winter. Those are the largest elk herds in the world.
As always, dissenting opinions welcomed and valued!
When 200 elk fall through the ice and die on Blue Mesa Reservoir because it covers their historic wintering ground, I guess that is a Darwinian kind of adaptation, but not a beneficial one. Ditto w roads, trains, dogs. Every wildlife biologist I've spoken w in CO has agreed that shrinking winter range places the most profound limitation on big game herds of any single factor. That is why I mention it here.
In the big winter kill of 07-08, where did the deer die? On what was left of winter range. Sage is better for deer in winter than cow pastures where there is nothing to browse. Where there are good sage lowlands, big game winters well. Reference NW CO, where the huge herds from Flattops and Bear's Ears have vast sage lowlands on which to winter. Those are the largest elk herds in the world.
As always, dissenting opinions welcomed and valued!
lostinOregon
Very Active Member
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I don't think it would change a thing. What's the difference between a dead deer killed with a voucher and one killed with a regular draw tag? Absolutely nothing. Also many of the units only have one voucher for 4th season available to the landowners. One deer is not going to make or break anything. The 4th season is actually where you might kill a deer on the property where the voucher was located, not like the earlier seasons when they are way up the mountain and killed on public land.
Rich
Rich
good luck getting rid of the vouchers. too much of a money maker for outfitters/ranchers and local communities. the wildlife board is who can change the voucher system (whether eliminating them/making them only good on the land they were issued for etc...)but guess who the wildlife board members are. you guessed it....ranchers and outfitters.
on another note, if the vouchers are only good for the land they were issued on then a lot of the landowner's would just give them to family members and friends. once they lose value they are no longer of use to the landowner as sad as it is. this will create game having safe havens on these properties.
all these scenario's hurt the average public land hunter imo.
at least now the average public hunter has a chance to purchase a landowner voucher from a rancher. I hate that it has become a money game but it is what it is imo.
I also feel like the elk population has a huge negative effect on the deer population. I see elk on the winter range that was traditionally deer winter range.
The amount of 4th season tags are so little they don't have much effect imo.
great topic but ultimately I feel the deer are effected the most by habitat infringement by humans/elk, harsh winters and predators.
on another note, if the vouchers are only good for the land they were issued on then a lot of the landowner's would just give them to family members and friends. once they lose value they are no longer of use to the landowner as sad as it is. this will create game having safe havens on these properties.
all these scenario's hurt the average public land hunter imo.
at least now the average public hunter has a chance to purchase a landowner voucher from a rancher. I hate that it has become a money game but it is what it is imo.
I also feel like the elk population has a huge negative effect on the deer population. I see elk on the winter range that was traditionally deer winter range.
The amount of 4th season tags are so little they don't have much effect imo.
great topic but ultimately I feel the deer are effected the most by habitat infringement by humans/elk, harsh winters and predators.
ICMDEER
Very Active Member
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- 2,998
Good question, Paul. In general, it is about management. The season timing is not all that important. Look at us here in Wyoming. Most seasons in our area are in October, nothing close to CO 4th season. And the CO deer herds are often in much better shape. Better habitat and often better management, since many to most of the Wyoming areas don't have quotas for residents. (No handle on annual harvest.)
tx_packmule
Active Member
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- 805
LO vouchers and 4th seasons are the least of worries...look into the 2nd season tag surplus and poaching.
Tomichi
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-16 AT 07:53PM (MST)[p]I HATE VOUCHERS!! But for a different reason than most.
If it weren't for Land Owner Vouchers. Colorado would be limited draw state wide ELK.. Then we could actually manage
our elk.
I LOVE 4th season.. why? not the rut but the fact that forth is LIMITED elk instead of a PUMPKIN patch. To me a quality hunt is less people. 10 tags 9 of which are unit wide in the Gunnison GMU's has no impact on our mature deer. The early above timber line hunts archery and muzzle harvest ALOT more mature bucks then the forth does.
We may not be totally satisfied with deer management here in Colorado but I believe my State does a much better job of managing our Mule Deer then ANY other Western State!
We are A LOT better neighbors when it comes to NON Resident opportunity THEN SAY...New Mexico???
We got this...applications are due in April if you think you might want to hunt deer up here.
If it weren't for Land Owner Vouchers. Colorado would be limited draw state wide ELK.. Then we could actually manage
our elk.
I LOVE 4th season.. why? not the rut but the fact that forth is LIMITED elk instead of a PUMPKIN patch. To me a quality hunt is less people. 10 tags 9 of which are unit wide in the Gunnison GMU's has no impact on our mature deer. The early above timber line hunts archery and muzzle harvest ALOT more mature bucks then the forth does.
We may not be totally satisfied with deer management here in Colorado but I believe my State does a much better job of managing our Mule Deer then ANY other Western State!
We are A LOT better neighbors when it comes to NON Resident opportunity THEN SAY...New Mexico???
We got this...applications are due in April if you think you might want to hunt deer up here.
>Deedub, respectfully disagree somewhat, here's why:
>The examples you gave are
>of "zoo" habitat, artificially low
>or no hunting pressure on
>summer and winter ranges. I
>have good bucks in my
>yard most winter days in
>CO Springs, but they are
>basically urban pets, and very
>inbred.
>
>When 200 elk fall through the
>ice and die on Blue
>Mesa Reservoir because it covers
>their historic wintering ground, I
>guess that is a Darwinian
>kind of adaptation, but not
>a beneficial one. Ditto w
>roads, trains, dogs. Every wildlife
>biologist I've spoken w in
>CO has agreed that shrinking
>winter range places the most
>profound limitation on big game
>herds of any single factor.
>That is why I mention
>it here.
>
>In the big winter kill of
>07-08, where did the deer
>die? On what was left
>of winter range. Sage is
>better for deer in winter
>than cow pastures where there
>is nothing to browse. Where
>there are good sage lowlands,
>big game winters well. Reference
>NW CO, where the huge
>herds from Flattops and Bear's
>Ears have vast sage lowlands
>on which to winter. Those
>are the largest elk herds
>in the world.
>
>As always, dissenting opinions welcomed and
>valued!
Good points elkduds. Those nw elk herds are impressive, there was about an 8 year stretch awhile back where they allowed you 2 elk! I took advantage!
I also drew a 201 buck tag in 2014! Limited tags, tons of winter range like you stated. Yet the deer density is mediocre at best. What explains the elk doing so well and the deer lagging behind? That bad winter was 8 yrs ago, it still has some lingering effect, but after 8 yrs things should be much better than they are. I realize it's the $64k question that even our biologists struggle to answer. What's changed from the glory days of the 50's and 60's? Fire suppression, and fur prices. Nobody would let a weeks pay trot off without firein a shot back then! I've lived in the same place the last 20yrs and until the past couple years deer were scarce. Now I see em on a pretty regular basis. The only thing that's changed in that time is the mange came thru a few years ago and wiped out the coyotes. Doubt it's the cure all but it's surely a part of the equation. Once our high country starts to regenerate itself after this beetle situation I think we'll be back to seein more and bigger deer. If we can knock the coyotes back in conjunction, I think it could be the glory days of mule deer hunting in colorado! We can only hope!
>The examples you gave are
>of "zoo" habitat, artificially low
>or no hunting pressure on
>summer and winter ranges. I
>have good bucks in my
>yard most winter days in
>CO Springs, but they are
>basically urban pets, and very
>inbred.
>
>When 200 elk fall through the
>ice and die on Blue
>Mesa Reservoir because it covers
>their historic wintering ground, I
>guess that is a Darwinian
>kind of adaptation, but not
>a beneficial one. Ditto w
>roads, trains, dogs. Every wildlife
>biologist I've spoken w in
>CO has agreed that shrinking
>winter range places the most
>profound limitation on big game
>herds of any single factor.
>That is why I mention
>it here.
>
>In the big winter kill of
>07-08, where did the deer
>die? On what was left
>of winter range. Sage is
>better for deer in winter
>than cow pastures where there
>is nothing to browse. Where
>there are good sage lowlands,
>big game winters well. Reference
>NW CO, where the huge
>herds from Flattops and Bear's
>Ears have vast sage lowlands
>on which to winter. Those
>are the largest elk herds
>in the world.
>
>As always, dissenting opinions welcomed and
>valued!
Good points elkduds. Those nw elk herds are impressive, there was about an 8 year stretch awhile back where they allowed you 2 elk! I took advantage!
I also drew a 201 buck tag in 2014! Limited tags, tons of winter range like you stated. Yet the deer density is mediocre at best. What explains the elk doing so well and the deer lagging behind? That bad winter was 8 yrs ago, it still has some lingering effect, but after 8 yrs things should be much better than they are. I realize it's the $64k question that even our biologists struggle to answer. What's changed from the glory days of the 50's and 60's? Fire suppression, and fur prices. Nobody would let a weeks pay trot off without firein a shot back then! I've lived in the same place the last 20yrs and until the past couple years deer were scarce. Now I see em on a pretty regular basis. The only thing that's changed in that time is the mange came thru a few years ago and wiped out the coyotes. Doubt it's the cure all but it's surely a part of the equation. Once our high country starts to regenerate itself after this beetle situation I think we'll be back to seein more and bigger deer. If we can knock the coyotes back in conjunction, I think it could be the glory days of mule deer hunting in colorado! We can only hope!I'm not sure I am buying some of the statements that you all are selling.
It sounds like hundreds of elk are falling through blue mesa every year. I have only lived here since the early 90s but I don't buy that. I have heard of an elk herd here and there going scuba, but I don't believe hundreds. Yea there is a herd on big game hill most bad winters, and an Iola basin herd, and a herd up every drainage around the puddle, but most of the elk aren't just hanging by the lake. I don't like the puddle, but if it wasn't there that would all be high priced private fishing cabins, trophy homes, and hay meadows, just like it was before the puddle was made by the dams. Just go up the Lake Fork and you will see what I mean, a river that you can't even float to fish in places because of that big money. Right now it is just sage country and highways bordering blue mesa with a few seasonal R.V. sights. So maybe not so bad.
Lets face it, around Gunni the river bottoms have always been used for wintering cattle since the late 1800s. So lets take them pastures out of the equation. I am guessing there are less cattle and sheep in Gunni Country then there has been in the last hundred plus years.
From my understanding, the mule deer hay days in the 60's corresponded to a time frame when there were way more cattle and sheep in this country then tourists and range management was not so environ friendly. In fact it is said that there was an over population of muleys. However, predators were trapped, shot, and poisoned with no reservations. I have said it before and I will say it again, we are in the predator era because of the lack of control and the unlimited prey be it wild or domestic. Even them sage chickens were rock'n back when this was cattle and sheep country, so go figure tree huggers...
I find deer cohabitating with elk all the time. They aren't in the middle of the elk herds, but they are right next to them in every drainage I've been covering for years. I see elk kicking each other all the time, and bulls sparring even mid winter, but I never see them paying the deer any mind. So what makes you think elk are resulting in the demise of deer. The browse is still there or else the elk herds would move on. Should we even consider this good deer country? With the elk better able to withstand killer winters, maybe this just isn't ideal deer country as they don't have the reserves to make it through the worst winters and even their rut is at a poor time for winter survival. No matter what kind of habitat is available, every 10 years we will most likely see a huge deer die off. This isn't like other major drainages in Colorado. If there is a harsh winter, the critters aren't going to stream out of the basin on HWY50, 114, 149. Due to the nature of the passes and the canyon they will not be wintering in Montrose like the Utes. They are stuck with the basin even if the snow is 4 feet deep.
Wildland fire suppression has been going on for 50 years. At least now they are allowing some burns to burn, wilderness areas. And other areas they are burning intentionally, prescribed burns. The beetle kill isn't pretty, but it will only contribute to better understory and if it catches fire that's not so bad. If you have been down in GMU 76 since the fires you will see the rebound. Hell even the same year of the fire there was fresh growth starting. If they harvest the beetle kill, that's not bad either as it will just facilitate forming a disturbed area with typical early seral plants giving way to succession. Too bad it takes a die off to get some logging done.
I'm not too worried about the few late season tags. In fact I would like to see a late archery season for deer during the rut, but that's just me. I kind of like the thought of private land tags being used to supplement working ranches for wildlife damage. However, it seems a little ironic if that ranch doesn't allow hunters on its property and yet that private land tag can result in critters being hunted anywhere in the GMU resulting in critters being pushed onto that same ranch.
I will not give any conclusion on why the deer are not like they use to be and the elk keep rocking. But I am not blindly believing some of the conclusions that have been offered here. As far as tags, well I'm not happy unless I have one in my pocket and I don't see another hunter all season. Now I'm no expert so go ahead and change my thought process.
It sounds like hundreds of elk are falling through blue mesa every year. I have only lived here since the early 90s but I don't buy that. I have heard of an elk herd here and there going scuba, but I don't believe hundreds. Yea there is a herd on big game hill most bad winters, and an Iola basin herd, and a herd up every drainage around the puddle, but most of the elk aren't just hanging by the lake. I don't like the puddle, but if it wasn't there that would all be high priced private fishing cabins, trophy homes, and hay meadows, just like it was before the puddle was made by the dams. Just go up the Lake Fork and you will see what I mean, a river that you can't even float to fish in places because of that big money. Right now it is just sage country and highways bordering blue mesa with a few seasonal R.V. sights. So maybe not so bad.
Lets face it, around Gunni the river bottoms have always been used for wintering cattle since the late 1800s. So lets take them pastures out of the equation. I am guessing there are less cattle and sheep in Gunni Country then there has been in the last hundred plus years.
From my understanding, the mule deer hay days in the 60's corresponded to a time frame when there were way more cattle and sheep in this country then tourists and range management was not so environ friendly. In fact it is said that there was an over population of muleys. However, predators were trapped, shot, and poisoned with no reservations. I have said it before and I will say it again, we are in the predator era because of the lack of control and the unlimited prey be it wild or domestic. Even them sage chickens were rock'n back when this was cattle and sheep country, so go figure tree huggers...
I find deer cohabitating with elk all the time. They aren't in the middle of the elk herds, but they are right next to them in every drainage I've been covering for years. I see elk kicking each other all the time, and bulls sparring even mid winter, but I never see them paying the deer any mind. So what makes you think elk are resulting in the demise of deer. The browse is still there or else the elk herds would move on. Should we even consider this good deer country? With the elk better able to withstand killer winters, maybe this just isn't ideal deer country as they don't have the reserves to make it through the worst winters and even their rut is at a poor time for winter survival. No matter what kind of habitat is available, every 10 years we will most likely see a huge deer die off. This isn't like other major drainages in Colorado. If there is a harsh winter, the critters aren't going to stream out of the basin on HWY50, 114, 149. Due to the nature of the passes and the canyon they will not be wintering in Montrose like the Utes. They are stuck with the basin even if the snow is 4 feet deep.
Wildland fire suppression has been going on for 50 years. At least now they are allowing some burns to burn, wilderness areas. And other areas they are burning intentionally, prescribed burns. The beetle kill isn't pretty, but it will only contribute to better understory and if it catches fire that's not so bad. If you have been down in GMU 76 since the fires you will see the rebound. Hell even the same year of the fire there was fresh growth starting. If they harvest the beetle kill, that's not bad either as it will just facilitate forming a disturbed area with typical early seral plants giving way to succession. Too bad it takes a die off to get some logging done.
I'm not too worried about the few late season tags. In fact I would like to see a late archery season for deer during the rut, but that's just me. I kind of like the thought of private land tags being used to supplement working ranches for wildlife damage. However, it seems a little ironic if that ranch doesn't allow hunters on its property and yet that private land tag can result in critters being hunted anywhere in the GMU resulting in critters being pushed onto that same ranch.
I will not give any conclusion on why the deer are not like they use to be and the elk keep rocking. But I am not blindly believing some of the conclusions that have been offered here. As far as tags, well I'm not happy unless I have one in my pocket and I don't see another hunter all season. Now I'm no expert so go ahead and change my thought process.
Tomichi
Active Member
- Messages
- 639
Chin..That was a pretty good summary... if not an expert..at least your cool.
50 head at once in the early 80's is the biggest bunch through the ice that I know of.
That sucker hole full of non native fishes drowned 20 miles of the greatest willow fly hatch and arguably the best fishing in the world... And my Great Grand Folks place at Iola...
50 head at once in the early 80's is the biggest bunch through the ice that I know of.
That sucker hole full of non native fishes drowned 20 miles of the greatest willow fly hatch and arguably the best fishing in the world... And my Great Grand Folks place at Iola...
Paul_Crawford
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,578
WOW!! Never thought there would be so many response. Good ones, too. No bickering is amazing for this site.
I see that no good Exeter Monarch,ICMDEER, got his two cents in. Jim, is it cold up WY way? Paul
I see that no good Exeter Monarch,ICMDEER, got his two cents in. Jim, is it cold up WY way? Paul
Paul_Crawford
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,578
OMG!!! Another buddy of D13er!!!! lol
LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-16 AT 08:10PM (MST)[p]I did some googling and found this: https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=z3IFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4226,1772260&hl=en
And from one year ago: http://www.natureworldnews.com/arti...es-after-falling-through-frigid-reservoir.htm
I did NOT find a reference to the drowning of 200 elk I claimed above. I am confident I read about that in the last 5 years, but since I cannot cite my source, I'll apologize for including it. I did not intend to exaggerate or mislead, and I will check sources before posting "facts" in the future.
Chin, I agree that Blue Mesa does not routinely have mass drownings. I cited the one I did to illustrate an extreme example of elk trying to use historic winter range, w tragic consequences. Clearly predators will take more game animals when they are concentrated on winter range, and weakened by starvation/cold. Begs the question, does limited winter range result in the higher mortality by predators? I think yes.
And from one year ago: http://www.natureworldnews.com/arti...es-after-falling-through-frigid-reservoir.htm
I did NOT find a reference to the drowning of 200 elk I claimed above. I am confident I read about that in the last 5 years, but since I cannot cite my source, I'll apologize for including it. I did not intend to exaggerate or mislead, and I will check sources before posting "facts" in the future.
Chin, I agree that Blue Mesa does not routinely have mass drownings. I cited the one I did to illustrate an extreme example of elk trying to use historic winter range, w tragic consequences. Clearly predators will take more game animals when they are concentrated on winter range, and weakened by starvation/cold. Begs the question, does limited winter range result in the higher mortality by predators? I think yes.
Now we do have some common ground here and there. I agree that the habitat is fragmented, especially in Gunni be it geographically or artificial boundaries like the puddle. I think that is one of many solid arguments against wolves around here. You got herds at least north of the puddle that winter in just 1 or 2 adjacent drainages. The ability of that herd to just haul out of it's favored drainages during hard winters is severely limited.
I believe that would also suggest that we need to consider habitat improvement in about every other drainage around here just to prep for these hard winters. I don't really know how to quantify what good winter range is. I know we got some sage, but it seems on my winter scouts I see bitter brush, mountain mahogany, and willows getting torn up plenty while there is sage everywhere.
Not sure this winter is going to play out so well for the mulies or the pronghorn. On the plus side, I've only come across one cat kill this winter and it was a forker bull. Damn thing only ate one front shoulder. However, with this last dump I've been too busy getting the snow off my roof to do any critter checking on my days off.
I believe that would also suggest that we need to consider habitat improvement in about every other drainage around here just to prep for these hard winters. I don't really know how to quantify what good winter range is. I know we got some sage, but it seems on my winter scouts I see bitter brush, mountain mahogany, and willows getting torn up plenty while there is sage everywhere.
Not sure this winter is going to play out so well for the mulies or the pronghorn. On the plus side, I've only come across one cat kill this winter and it was a forker bull. Damn thing only ate one front shoulder. However, with this last dump I've been too busy getting the snow off my roof to do any critter checking on my days off.
Tomichi
Active Member
- Messages
- 639
Elk duds I can t "prove my 50" either. I cant open your links as I have satellite internet out here so I am in four low and second gear. There are elk that wash out into the lake out of the Lake Fork annually..
ICE? Probably. The herd in the 80's was some thing to see it was unbelievable how many eagles and coyotes were out there on them. I can vividly remember a Bald Eagle siting on a up thrust antler, as I looked through my clouded, grey, fogged, fixed 30 power Red Field "Cat" scope..any one remember those jewels? Any way we agree that we/humans have put a lot of obstacle's out there for our game to navigate. I put fences as #1 think about the wear and tear on the joints let alone the hang ups and die. Highways #2 DOGS! at #3 it is going to get a lot worse faster as more and more people are coming to the winter range to recreate...we just had the "Fat Bike" world championship in Crested Butte. Hopefully we can keep them on our Nordic trails but I don't really believe that, heads up you hungry cold tired doe. here come 30 ubber athletes single tracken through your winter range..
ICE? Probably. The herd in the 80's was some thing to see it was unbelievable how many eagles and coyotes were out there on them. I can vividly remember a Bald Eagle siting on a up thrust antler, as I looked through my clouded, grey, fogged, fixed 30 power Red Field "Cat" scope..any one remember those jewels? Any way we agree that we/humans have put a lot of obstacle's out there for our game to navigate. I put fences as #1 think about the wear and tear on the joints let alone the hang ups and die. Highways #2 DOGS! at #3 it is going to get a lot worse faster as more and more people are coming to the winter range to recreate...we just had the "Fat Bike" world championship in Crested Butte. Hopefully we can keep them on our Nordic trails but I don't really believe that, heads up you hungry cold tired doe. here come 30 ubber athletes single tracken through your winter range..
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-16 AT 09:56AM (MST)[p]
They can find odd but natural ways to die. Found these reads interesting.
http://m.jhnewsandguide.com/news/en...ab8-b58b-5bb0-be23-3939b8f01c01.html?mode=jqm
http://m.livescience.com/41022-mysterious-elk-deaths-explained.html
http://dnr.state.co.us/newsapp/press.asp?pressid=5697
They can find odd but natural ways to die. Found these reads interesting.
http://m.jhnewsandguide.com/news/en...ab8-b58b-5bb0-be23-3939b8f01c01.html?mode=jqm
http://m.livescience.com/41022-mysterious-elk-deaths-explained.html
http://dnr.state.co.us/newsapp/press.asp?pressid=5697
Tomichi, I googled Blue Mesa Elk Drown, the 1st article on the list is my 1st link. Other link is the 3rd link on Google list.
I lived in Gunnison/CB from 1976-89, worked summers building trails for Curecanti NRA. Dillon Pinnacles, Pioneer Point, stairs down into Morrow Point, Hermit's Rest, Crystal Reservoir Overlook, and the fishing access trail along Crystal Reservoir shore to Mesa Creek. I miss that country in the summer and fall, not so much in the winter. We used to listen to a song that went, "Its 40 below and I don't give a #$%^, got a heater in my truck and I'm off to the rodeo." Brrrrrrr.
I lived in Gunnison/CB from 1976-89, worked summers building trails for Curecanti NRA. Dillon Pinnacles, Pioneer Point, stairs down into Morrow Point, Hermit's Rest, Crystal Reservoir Overlook, and the fishing access trail along Crystal Reservoir shore to Mesa Creek. I miss that country in the summer and fall, not so much in the winter. We used to listen to a song that went, "Its 40 below and I don't give a #$%^, got a heater in my truck and I'm off to the rodeo." Brrrrrrr.
Damn, I worked trails at CURE 2 years before giving up the honest work for protection division. I wasn't sure how long my back would hold out on trails and fires. We worked the same trails.
I'd hate to try to rate the premature killers of critters around here. I would guess auto would rate damn high. You could say they are the indiscriminate killers, but truth be told I can't recall a bull hit by a car. A few bucks here and there, but dead does will line the hwy by spring.
Cassette tape, what's that? Just kidding, I remember 8 track.
I'd hate to try to rate the premature killers of critters around here. I would guess auto would rate damn high. You could say they are the indiscriminate killers, but truth be told I can't recall a bull hit by a car. A few bucks here and there, but dead does will line the hwy by spring.
Cassette tape, what's that? Just kidding, I remember 8 track.
BooYah, trail alumni! After shoveling over a foot of snow yesterday, I'd hate to pick up a McCloud or mattock and spend a day swinging it. The trail crew was big fun, though.
8 tracks let you listen to 2 songs @ the same time, like it or not.
This quote: The quality of winter range habitat is extremely important to mule deer survival
because these ranges are most limited in forage quality and quantity.
is from this report: https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2014/June/ITEM17-MuleDeerIssuesSynthesis.pdf
which addresses habitat, weather/drought, predators, competition w elk, roadkill, and several other determinants of deer survival.
8 tracks let you listen to 2 songs @ the same time, like it or not.
This quote: The quality of winter range habitat is extremely important to mule deer survival
because these ranges are most limited in forage quality and quantity.
is from this report: https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2014/June/ITEM17-MuleDeerIssuesSynthesis.pdf
which addresses habitat, weather/drought, predators, competition w elk, roadkill, and several other determinants of deer survival.
Predators are out there 24/7 and will take any mule deer they can.
Lions are said to kill about 1 deer per week/per lion. Colorado has between 3,000 and 5,000 lion's, so using Common Core math, that equates to between 156,000 and 260,000 deer being killed per year just by lions.
Add in coyotes, bears, cars, etc. and that's a lot of deer.
Read up about the Kaibab Plateau and predator removal to see what can happen to deer without predators around.
Statewide post-hunt population estimates were 424,190 in 2014, down from 600,900 in 2004
Human hunters killed 33,018 deer in Colorado 2014, all seasons combined. Kind of a paltry sum compared just to lions.
Lions are said to kill about 1 deer per week/per lion. Colorado has between 3,000 and 5,000 lion's, so using Common Core math, that equates to between 156,000 and 260,000 deer being killed per year just by lions.
Add in coyotes, bears, cars, etc. and that's a lot of deer.
Read up about the Kaibab Plateau and predator removal to see what can happen to deer without predators around.
Statewide post-hunt population estimates were 424,190 in 2014, down from 600,900 in 2004
Human hunters killed 33,018 deer in Colorado 2014, all seasons combined. Kind of a paltry sum compared just to lions.
Colorado Hunting Guides & Outfitters
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Flat Tops Elk Hunting
For the Do-It-Yourself hunters, an amazing cabin in GMU 12 for your groups elk or deer hunt.