kaibab early hunts

[tooele]

Does anyone know why they moved the dates up into october on these earlier hunts? It looks like the early kaibab and 12 b hunts will be oct 22-31 vs the oct 31-nov 9. That will make these already difficult meat hunts even harder. Anybody know the fish and games reasoning and how much tougher is it going to be to harvest. I know in 12 B the larger bucks will probably not even make it into the unit by then.
T

 

[azoutback]

Only reason I can think of is to sell the same amount of tags, and kill less deer. The early 12b hunt will be tough unless the Puans get some heavy snow.

 

[maddglasser]

Can you smell the money? And get this, there is less product actually given, aka deer killed. What a concept, sell the same amount of tags but have less killed, who said the state was going broke?

 

[mesquitehunter]

I think they moved it back according to the full moon cycle. It'll make it even more difficult. That will be a full moon weekend.

 

[tooele]

I wonder if it will ever be moved back to its more historic dates? Fish and game got all the early hunters real good on this one. You would almost have to be crazy to burn points to want to hunt those season dates as a non-resident.
T

 

[maddglasser]

The hunts were almost a week earlier than they are now! How would have that sat?

 

[oz31p]

i think most big game openers are always on full moon weekends in arizona.

Sure You Can Trust Your Government... Just Ask An Indian

 

[Naildriver]

i know last year it was so bright at midnite in the Kaibab.

 

[tooele]

Didn't realize they were a week earlier, so basically they are moving the dates to the moon phase? So does the migration correspond to the moon phase? The last 2 years it has certainly started without any weather. So though weather may increase the speed of the migration, it certainly doesn't trigger it. I will be interested to see how the deer are moving up there this year.

 

[Blackknight]

I will be putting in for this hunt again this year! One simple reason, a friend has 5pts and would like me to join him on the hunt. Moon phase or not. It will be lots of fun! Bucks will go down!!!!

 

[tooele]

blacknight

How did you do up there last year? The archery hunt was a blast, got into some pretty nice deer. Really messed up on a shot at a great buck.

 

[Blackknight]

Tooele, sent you a PM!

 

[mesquitehunter]

LMAO!!! good luck boys...

 

[tooele]

Mesquite hunter,

Not sure why the LMAO. I have noticed that you don't appreciate the fact that I am not a huge fan of your unit 40's desert hunts. Just to set the record straight, I realize there are some great bucks out there and from looking at your website it looks like you have taken a few. I have hunted the desert and I have hunted north of the rim. There are more larger class bucks north of the rim, than in the desert period. It is great that you hunt for three weeks and see a couple of 190 class bucks. I would love to hunt with you sometime, it sounds like you are damned good at what you do, but I don't want to pay $4000 to do it. No reason to act like we are dumb*&*( just because we feel there are a few more large deer around north of the rim, as I have said before, all of the books support us on this one. If you want to add to my posts that would be great, but really LMAO, just because I don't think the 40's don't compare to to the 12 or 13 in quality or quantity you have got to be kidding me.
T

 

[mesquitehunter]

LAST EDITED ON May-17-10 AT 03:02PM (MST)[p]I Have done several early kiabab hunts and IMHO it was a waste of my time and money. I had a better chance at getting struck by lightning than finding a big mature 190+ buck. The late hunts are a differnt story but you still have a better chance at getting struck by lightning than getting a tag.

For one thing the kiabab deer get a lot of human pressure and when the pressure is on those big bucks go totally nocturnal. In the desert the deer are up wondering around all through out the day because they don't have the pressure. I never said there wasn't any big bucks up there. All I'm knocking on is the early kiabab hunts are overrated pointburners. You're the one who stated the 39-42 muzzy hunt was overrated.

I'll make a personal bet with you that the 39-42 Dec. muzzy hunt will yeild as many or more big bucks than the early kiabab hunts this coming season. We're talking 50 muzzy tags vs I dont know how many early kiabab tags.

 

[spcheuvront]

Tool-

Come on man place the bet, I'll put a hundred bucks on the scott brothers and the desert hunts vs. early kaibab.

Want to bet?

Steve Cheuvront

 

[huntazido]

I'm curious. Why do many of you promote the 40 units so much on open forums? Sounds like to me, you had a pretty good thing going with very little competition. I think most agree there are some very fine animals in the desert units but they are few and far between. With so many promoting the area I can only imagine the odds of getting drawn will go down and the area will attract too many hunters. I'm afraid the same people who swear by it will soon be complaining due to too much pressure on a finite resource. How many big bucks can be taken out an arid area such as this before it plays a toll?

Sorry, but I always wonder what motivates people to say and do the things they do.

 

[maddglasser]

AZ
I can honestly see where your question comes from but I will try to explain our motivations

When people think of AZ deer the thought of Kaibab and Strip leaps to ones mind. This also causes more emphasis from governing and managing authorities to place these 40's units on the back burner, so to speak, region 4 is pretty much a red-headed step child. With our positive input, we have seen many new approaches and ways of thinking take place and transpire. In short, this ugly tag will start to create money for the wildlife of here and all of AZ.

To many, the area between the ditch and the border, is as you put, an arid area. Does this mean the area is a void wasteland? If so, you should know the Sonoran desert is one of the worlds' most living ecosystems. The Mojave desert is a different thing. I would like to see this countries hunters experience and appeciate the hunting quality of this place.



Bottom line is most people will have a pessimistic attitude about this area. If this continues, our state will not reach out to all hunters and regions of this state. I for one am proud to endorse and, in some sorts, be the ambassador, of such an overlooked and under appreciated place of this state. We(SWHA) welcome all to experience our home desert, whether with us or anyone else.


Travis
www.southwesthuntingadventures.com

 

[oz31p]

im with Mr. Glasser

and to say the big deer are "far and few between" is quite the stretch.

most Hollywood hunter are strip or nothing.
the rest have a view of the 40's from the highway, and refer to it as arid and they keep driving. this will never change.

i would trade a Kaibab/Strip tag and my left nut for a 39-42 ml tag. heck i have kids i might give you both.
but what do i know im just the out of focus guy in the back.

Sure You Can Trust Your Government... Just Ask An Indian

 

[tooele]

Ok mesquite hunter, you are going to tell me that if we take your desert units vs. 12 a and b and 13 A and B. The same number of units. You will have more book entries from the 40 units. We have to compare apples to apples, so lets take the rifle, archery and muzzleloader, as there isn't really much in the way of muzzleloader hunt up north. I will not only take that bet, but would also add top end bucks. In fact on this bet, I am pulling out the record book right now and going back year after year and indeed the comparison isn't even close. Now one may say that big bucks are killed every year and aren't recorded in the 40 units. This may be true, as the guys that hunt these units just aren't into getting into the record books for whatever altruistic reason. However, there aren't that many deer getting past the books, that we cannot say decisively, that more big deer and bigger deer are killed in the northern units. In fairness to the forty units, the sheer number of tags from up north makes the bet unfair in the end. Now I totally understand what you are saying, it is difficult to go up and find a 190 net B & C buck up north. If you take the number of entries and divide it by tags, the actual odds of killing a net 190 buck may be better in the 40's units. But again, unless that many guys are not entering their kills in the books, this doesn't even hold true. Now if you divide 170 gross bucks and higher and divide it by tag numbers, we may be talking about a whole different thing. The odds of killing a 170 gross + are probably much better in the desert units, but that is something very difficult to follow. I respect what you guys do in those desert units, I have seen some great deer in the desert, have looked at your websites numerous times, and appreciate you are running a great business. I believe there are great bucks, and I guess I am in the camp of I like to hunt the desert with less people, so I would much rather see those guys hunting the early hunts up north. So back to the original question, those early dates in October will probably help you guys as less nonresidents will probably want to hunt, those northern units.
T

 

[spcheuvront]

T;

Good post man!

The more you wrote the more you calmed down and said it like it is, thanks man.

Steve Cheuvront

 

[mesquitehunter]

Tooele I don't dispute what the record books say. I've read them myself. In my earlier post I never mentioned the 40 units haveing more records than the northern units. This whole post is about KIABAB EARLY HUNT and not the strip or the kiabab late hunts.

What I'm simply saying is, in todays age I feel the 39-42 muzzy hunt will produce as many or more bigger bucks than the KIABAB EARLY HUNTS will produce. I didn't mention record books,the strip or late kiabab hunts.

 

[mesquitehunter]

If a person who is looking for info on hunting AZ a nonresident with out max points I will never recomend the KIABAB EARLY HUNTS. I will never recomend an early period.

IF somebody has max points I would recomend the Strip or late Kiabab with out a doubt.

I think its unusefull info when somebody is telling another person that doesn't know any better they should choose to apply for an EARLY KIABAB HUNT and be expecting to find trophy quality bucks. There are alot of other hunts in the state that are better.

 

[tooele]

Mesquite,
After thinking a little more about it, you are probably right when comparing the early hunts only to the 40 units. Tough to argue that the early Kaibab hunts are much more than a meat hunt. A few trophy's are taken, but not an easy endeavor. With tag numbers, you would expect a few nice deer to be taken. As Don has put it, unless you have max points, then you probably don't have a shot at the late hunts. The thing that is really crazy is the guys with one less or 2 less than max that have to put in for an early hunt up there, because it is impossible to draw the late hunts without max points. A lot of points to waste. You make a pretty good point for these guys below max point guys, that they would be better off in the 40's units, I just hate to see more guys in the desert discovering this hunting gem, making it potentially more difficult to draw these hunts in the future. So if you see me supporting the early kaibab hunts in the future, you now know some of the reasons. Good luck, maybe I will run into you in the desert again someday.
T

 

[mesquitehunter]

Tooele, I understand that you and alot of other folks would rather keep the 40's under the hat. There are other area's in AZ that actually have Kiabab and Strip quality bucks that only a handfull people know about I've never really hunted them and I don't live there but I've seen some very large come from there.

One reason I bring up hunting in region 4 is because the more people who know about it the more attention it will get. Case in point. There used to be a 43a,b 44a,b December Muzzy hunt only a hand full of people hunted. AZGFD closed the hunt and it's been long forgotten, hell when it was closed it got very little if not any attention. It just dissapeared. There was some complaining on a local level, but not on a state and national level. It went uncontested. If AZGFD tried that with the 39-42 muzzy hunt today it be a hot controversial topic state wide. We're only talking fifty tags here. AZGFD could very easily shift those tags elswhere and still not lose any revenue. So thats why I feel so passionate about it.

 

[DonMartin]

Soon as I loose my 11 bonus points on either a 13B or late 12A West tag, I'm going to fire up my charcoal burner and head to the desert.

Early Kaibab is a joke IF you're seeking a huge buck! Yeah, a few are taken each year and with this action that moved back the hunt, the fat forkies will be falling like rain!

Gonna put my lady friend for one of the fat forkie hunts north of the ditch as she wants to see a lot of deer and isn't quite as picky as I might be.

Those Scott boys have the desert figured out..I am sending my guys with less than max points who still want a good buck their way..

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

 

[maddglasser]

Don
How has the fishing been going? I figure it is starting to pick-up now that the weather is slowly warming. Send me a PM or call when you plan to head to the river for some flathead fishing.

 

[tooele]

You boys want to get into some good fishing, Rocky point grouper is where it is at. You guys ever try that out?

 

[maddglasser]

I have always wanted to. They say the eating is incredible! What size fish are you talking?

 

[tooele]

went down this weekend and we caught 11. Biggest was a leopard grouper (sardenaro) at 30 lbs. We broke off a couple of gulfs this weekend. They are tough, if they get into the rocks, they break you pretty quickly. The big ones are gulf grouper. Last year I boated 2 over 90 lbs, they are my biggest to date. Last spring we had a Mako shark nearing the 800 lb mark, but that is a rarity.

 

[TreeEM]

So what about the archery hunts? How many booking animals come out that season? In your guys' opinion what would you put in for if you were hunting archery?

 

[tooele]

Depends on how many points you have best archery unit 13 B. Easy hunt=no. R you going to draw it? probably not

 

[maddglasser]

EXACTLY- T.

 

[DonMartin]

Travis:

Got the jet boat and man is that the bomb! We got to take it to the river and you get me on some of those big old flatheads!

Used it on Mead this week, had a blast, full moon did us in as far as catching fish, but what a ride that "Striper Hunter" boat is!

Not sure about Mexico Tooele, kinda scared with the political situation being what it is.

As to the early Kaibab hunts. Meat hunts are the rule, but those that pre-season scout will do better.

I had 11 points so I am holding out for one more 13B tag, then I'm a 12A west (early) and desert muzzleloader guy from then on!

Don Martin
AWO & Striper Hunters

 

[maddglasser]

Let me know when you're ready. That big flats will feed more as water temp raises. The metabolism raises with the water temp.

 

[DonMartin]

Travis:

YOU let me know when its prime time and I'll work my schedule to make it happen, bugs or no bugs!

I'm almost booked up through the end of June, AND no full moon trips, I'm getting screwed up here on Mead when the moon is full, so I'm rescheduling all my striper trips for other than the full moon weeks.

Last Tuesday night we caught just 25..I felt bad for that young couple that came up.

After catching 92 the week before, I sure was disappointed!

Don

 

[Idcurs]

I have hunted both the desert and 12 & 13 units.Both have big bucks!!!!I have bucks from the 40's that I have taken with my bow that go from 170's to my best 207.Now I have put in a few thousand days of hunting in the 40's for these type of bucks.I have also spent a few thousand days on the strip and kaibab.The bucks I have taken and had others take are much bigger on the whole. The best on the strip buck is a little 260 plus guy a few years back,and kaibab is a 232 very heavy 6x6.For the most part most guys will never see a buck of that caliber that kaibab or the strip has south of the ditch.And you will be struck by lighting before you see a 240 or better buck in the desert units.Now they are not on every point on the strip either but they do come every now and again.And the early hunts are what you make of them,if you don't scout then don't cry.I have hunted both early and late kaibab and have always seen 190 or better bucks.The best thing about the desert is I don't have to draw the dec archery hunt OTC tags.

 

[Magnummatt]

I dont know much about hunting Arizona mule deer. But from a far away observation dont deer in general from a dry desert climate usually have have less mass than a deer from a wetter enviroment.I thought desert mule deer and Mtn muleys where a differnt species like rocky mnt bighorn and desert bighorn.Only hunted desert mule deer in arizona 1 time and had a blast.Just asking . dont blast me to bad!