Laguna Raffle Tag... Good Cause

[jamaro]

Hey Guys...
There is a Laguna Tag Raffle for an elk permit and lodging... Pretty good odds and a good price...

Go to my website for details..

J

 

[joesikora]

Hi J whats your website.


Joe E Sikora

 

[jamaro]

www.the new mexico sportsman.com all one word..
j

 

[droptine]

There are some nice bulls in the area that the hunt is going to take place. Alot of elk in that area. I've seen a couple non-typicals and some nice typicals. I would estimate the bulls to average in the 330-340 range but I know of a few that have hit the 350-360 range. Nice area to hunt being I've hunted the area on more than several occasions. Should anyone be lucky enough to win the raffle and need some info, don't hesitate to give me a holler.

Droptine

 

[nmwapiti]

Here's a question.....

I asked the NMGF and Laguna Pueblo if one already holds an elk tag for this season can you enter the raffle and legally hunt if you were to win the raffle? NMGF gave me a politician/Lawyer answer, saying it maybe legal maybe illegal (Gee that was a big help). Laguna Pueblo was not too sure. Can anyone shed some light on this? I do know it is illiegal to posess more than one license per species per year but my understanding is that hunting on a Res would be an exclusion to this policy??

 

[nmbullfighter]

i think you can hunt both since laguna probably has its own game and fish department and their hunts are on reservation and are not controlled by NM game and fish. I know if you draw a deer tag on the Navajo Nation you can still hunt deer in new mexico also. Just my understanding but im sure somebody in game and fish could tell you.

 

[NMHUNTNUTTG]

You can only have one elk or deer license in a calender year , whether it be on state land or reservation land.For example, you cannot hunt muledeer on the Jicarilla in 2009 and also hunt deer on one of NM draw units for the 2009 hunt year, therefore you cannot hold a license to hunt elk in NM for 2009 and also hunt Laguna in 2009.

 

[passthrough]

Indian reservations are sovern nations, so you can hunt both state and tribal hunts in the same year. I have several native american buddies that hunt the res and the state every year. I have hunted Laguna before and it depends what unit you are hunting. All in all a good, fun, hunt.

 

[droptine]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-09 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]You can have a tag for the reservation as well as a state tag. Here in Laguna we do have our own department of natural resources so therefore, our big game seasons and tag numbers are set seperately from the state. I myself hunt both the state and reservation for the same species if my luck holds out in the drawings. Just like the state though, I can not hold multiple tags for the same species. That is the only similarity. Should you have any other questions, feel free to contact me thru my email (click email icon above) or PM me here on MM.

Droptine

 

[Ropinfool]

Why is it a good cause? More money going to the tribes doesn't sound like a good cause to me!

 

[droptine]

It's a good cause because the money that is raised is used for scholarships that Laguna Tribal students can access to pursue their education at the college level.

Droptine

 

[pinemesa]

Sounds like an excellent cause to me!

pinemesa

 

[Ropinfool]

Our tax money already pays for that. Just call it what it is....more welfair.

 

[droptine]

Yes we can call it what we want. Welfare...handout...we are all entitled to our opinions. That's what makes this country so great. So all those scholarships out there for all to use are all handouts/welfare. Taxes are paid by all to include scholarships, road projects, infrastructure, etc. We as Native tribes do our part to further our youth & their education. No one has forced any one to buy these raffle tickets, it's all up to the individuals to do so. I realize there is always going to be this negativity towards tribes but that only makes tribes stronger and continue to makes things better for our people to include the youth and elders. I could go on but there is no reason to get into a debate over an education foundation trying to raise funds for scholarships.

Droptine

 

[Ropinfool]

Taxes aren't paid by all and aren't distributed fairly. Business must be slow at the casino.

 

[droptine]

I agree taxes aren't paid by everyone and aren't distributed fairly. My point exactly. Why do you think that the education foundation is trying to raise the money for more scholarships. The casinos have nothing to do with this topic. Unfortunately, that's the easy way out for those that think the casino's are the cure all for the tribes.

Droptine

 

[RabidRattleSnake1]

Droptine I really like that you took the high road in your last post. Don't listen to Ropinfool, it is fairly obvious he is looking for a fight. I really like Monster Muleys, but ignorant jerks like him make me want to skip this website.

 

[Ropinfool]

yeah i am a jerk.....ignorant im not. im just tired of seeing all the tribes get special treatment. maybe injustices were comitted hundreds of years ago.....doesn't mean that we need to keep paying for them. enough is enough....they need to join in with the rest of society instead of living off of them.

ignorant is anybody who supported the tcp designation of mt. taylor.

 

[droptine]

There were a lot of injustices that were committed years and eons ago. We all can state that fact. No one is paying for them although there have been treaties/documents signed committing to the facts. That is not the point going on here. There is a mention of joining society which believe it or not has happened. Tribes are making themselves known to society in ways you would not believe. There had been a mention of casinos in another post, that is one way of Tribes wanting to become independent of what has been called handouts/welfare but unfortunately, once the States hear of this economic development by Natives, their hands go straight out and want a piece of the pie. How many of you out there know that the Tribes pay 100's of millions of dollars to the States just to have a casino? That is part of the compact's signed by Tribes. The state don't "work" for the money other than telling Tribes, you can't have a casino or become economically developed without our ok and signature. There's mention of the TCP designation of Mt. Taylor. I already figured that's what this is about. No need to go into details on this topic. What has been done has been done. I know it has upset a lot of people and I have my understandings on this topic from both sides. I will say this though. Ignorance is what you want it to be to prove your own point and be in the right without any valid facts to back you up.

Droptine

 

[Ropinfool]

first off, the tribes aren't paying the full amount specified in the pacts to the state.....and that's fact! in reality, the tribes owe the state a lot of money. all tribes get special treatments and privilges, even make up their own laws. their lands were given to them, don't pay property taxes, at least to the state, kids get free school supplies, scholarships, etc.... probably one of the biggest mistakes that our forfathers made was to push the native people off onto reservations instead of assimilating them into society......and now we will NEVER stop paying. now, they are becoming educated and more powerfull, which is fine. call it whinning or what ever you want, but it's not really fair that one ethinic group be given special privliges. yeah, it happends all over the world, but it doesn't make it right. the tcp on mt. taylor is just another example of this ignorance. we'll consider it even when all the tribes pay in full for all of their lands given to them, pay taxes, etc.

 

[droptine]

HAHAHA...ok...if that's what's happening...sure..show me the facts of such statements. When that is shown to me, we shall commence to have an intellectual conversation. How any of these statements have anything to do with an education foundation wanting to raise money for scholarships is beyond me. Thank you for the laughs and the entertainment. We all do appreciate it.

Droptine

 

[nmelk13]

Drop- Ropin has valid points do I agree a 100% no but the Native Americans in this part of the west do supress there people. The higher ups get richer by letting there people suffer plain and simple.
This raffle tag though I think is a good thing if it is for the children, but if some higher ups get some of it, well it is BS! I understand ropin's fustration my family has been involved with the Navajo nation for a damn long time and trust me I have seen things that just make me want to puke. Do all the tribes act like the leaders in the 4 corners I am not sure but sometimes it seems like it.
Am I mad about the Mt Taylor deal hell yes I am that was BS from the get go. I loved the arguements of how it was sacared but they dont use the Mountain like they used to because of private property blah blah blah.
It is getting old that the Natives want more and more for something that happened a long F'ing time ago. If they wanted to really become a sovern nation they would have there own health care etc but why should they when all they have to do is cry a tad and guess what the US Gov will flip the bill or should I say the taxpayers flip a bill for nations that dont want to succeed!
There has to be a secret MOTTO "Supress our people and we the highers up will be rich"!
But if this tag goes for the children then by god that is awesome!

 

[Ropinfool]

Just an example:

New Mexico's Indian Tribes Vow to Defy Move to Close Casinos
By GEORGE JOHNSON
Published: Thursday, December 21, 1995
Since July, when the New Mexico Supreme Court ruled that the state's Indian-run casinos were operating in defiance of the law, United States Attorney John J. Kelly has been under pressure from legislators and gambling opponents to close the lucrative operations. The Indian tribes, insisting that they have the power of sovereign nations, have refused to stop voluntarily, since gambling has become their economic lifeblood.

So on Thursday, Mr. Kelly announced an ultimatum: By Jan. 15, the 10 tribes operating casinos must shut down or face legal action.

Tribal leaders said they were shocked by the edict and would do everything they could to oppose it. They say pacts that they signed with Gov. Gary E. Johnson, and that were approved by the Federal Department of the Interior, give them the right to run the casinos.

The issue, as they see it, is just whose law they are beholden to. The dispute is over how much leverage tribal sovereignty gives the Indian leaders when they come into confrontation with the Federal Government and state governments.

"We're not going to let anyone come onto our reservation and shut us down," said Randy L. Jiron, First Lieutenant Governor of Isleta Pueblo, south of Albuquerque. "If it comes to going to jail or prison or dying on the line, we have to make a stand. Otherwise, we might as well kiss sovereignty goodbye."

Mr. Jiron said gambling revenue was crucial to pay for projects like a proposed $4.8 million building for the pueblo's young people. The casino employs about 600 people, he said, most of them non-Indians.

Mr. Kelly is allowing the casinos to stay open through the holidays, and has said he will not bring law-enforcement officers onto the reservations to enforce the edict. Instead, he said, the Government will begin legal proceedings to force disobedient tribes to forfeit their gambling equipment. He has not said what he will do if they refuse to comply.

In a letter to the tribes on Wednesday, Mr. Kelly raised the possibility that the Legislature would amend the gambling laws soon after its 1996 session opens on Jan. 16, so the shutdown might last only a few days.

In the 10 months since Governor Johnson, a Republican, signed gambling pacts with the tribes, keeping a promise he made in his 1994 campaign, the corridor along the Rio Grande has shown signs of becoming an elongated Las Vegas strip, with pueblos competing to see which one can build the glitziest casino.

The building boom has continued even though the New Mexico Supreme Court ruled in July that the pacts were illegal because the Governor did not consult with the Legislature. Last month the court went further, ruling that state law did not allow casino gambling.

Under the Federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988, tribes can negotiate agreements allowing them to offer any form of gambling permitted elsewhere in the state. Since New Mexico has historically allowed charity casino nights along with raffles and bingo games, Mr. Johnson and the tribes used this as justification to allow full-blown, Las Vegas-style casinos on the reservations.

Mr. Kelly has given the tribes until next Friday to respond to his letter. Meanwhile, the tribes and their lawyers are wondering why they were allowed to go for so long, investing millions of dollars in new casinos, and why the United States Attorney could not have waited another month, when the Legislature would again be in session.

"It's senseless," said Mr. Jiron of Isleta Pueblo. "They let us go all this time and gave us all this rein, and all of a sudden they're trying to stop us."

 

[droptine]

There are some valid points if so. The argument is always that Tribes are always looking for handouts and want everyone else to pay for the atrocities of the past. That is not the case. Tribes follow the rules that have been laid out to run the casinos, schools, hospitals, etc. There may be some Tribes that "suppress" their people but here in Laguna that is not the case. The "higher ups" are put in these positions by the people and if the people see that the higher ups are not doing their job or look like they taking money that doesn't belong to them, they are removed imediately. I know of no cases of such happening here in Laguna. So I can't speak about what other Tribes do or don't do. As far as health care here, we are working on providing/improving the health care facility here on our own. The same goes for our school system, we are trying to improve that on our own. The TCP designation of Mt. Taylor has upset a lot of individuals understandably. I know I use that mountain with my believe in my religion as well as public use. So the points from both sides can be made over and over again but that doesn't make one sides argument better than the other. I always enjoy hearing and seeing different points of view, opinions and the such because that's what makes this world go round and round. But in the essence of this whole raffle tag, Yes, it is going for the betterment of the children. Good luck to all those that have purchased a ticket and good luck to those who have drawn tags for this year.

Droptine

 

[nmelk13]

Drop- That is good to hear the Lagunas are doing what they are for their people. A hell of alot better than what the 4 corners are doing. I didnt mean any disrespect on my post above so if I came across like a total redneck jacka$$ I apologize!
The Mt Taylor deal truley has brought alot of anomisty (sp) towards the natives! I just hope the promise that it wont affect the sportsman of this state is true.

 

[droptine]

It's all good nmelk13. I agree there is still alot of Tribes that don't do much for their people. This designation of Mt. Taylor as a TCP has created a lot of animosity towards the natives. In fact, in the Grants/Milan area, authorities have arrested an individual for beating on natives because of the designation. The designation will not hurt or affect sportsman because we here in Laguna also go hunting on the mountain thru the state's drawing of tags.

Droptine

 

[Ropinfool]

Sorry if i don't want to make up and be buddies. I have ZERO respect for anybody who supported that bull$hitt! Just when you think there are sensible people in this world, things like this happen and prove you wrong.