Landowner Voucher Abuse

dirtygrass

Active Member
Messages
623
I have been hearing a lot of stories about Landowner's selling vouchers and not allowing access to their property. I have bought vouchers in the past and have never had this problem. From the stories I believe the voucher program is being abused. Most hunters instead of confronting the land owner or just showing up and hunt are intimidated to the point they just hunt the public. I have also heard that when this happens the DOW will not help the hunter because they say it's not a wildlife violation.

Just curious if anyone on this board has voucher issues.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-11 AT 09:39PM (MST)[p]What your hearing is nothing short of BS.I would like the story and the landowners name.I talked to my CDOW friend about this he said Quote:I had a land owner refuse to let a group of hunters back! on his property because; the(4) hunters were all shooting at the same (1)bull elk and when confronted they lied.
(they were being watched)

And also there was alcohol abuse involved and the land owner did not want to get sued incase one of these so called hunters accidently shot one another.(theres a lot more to the story)

Iam not saying its never happend but; i would say *There had to be a reason; its against the law to sell private property vouchers to anyone and then not allow them to enter without probable cause. call Erick Slater@ CDOW 303-297-1192 HE will answer all your questions!

When you purchase a land owner voucher you have entered a legal contract.

COLORADO LAND OWNER!
 
Happens... yup and it sucks too. I encourage those who have purchased a land owner voucher to contact the DOW ASAP and they will handle it. And call before the season ends.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up anyway."
 
Here ya go. An ad on Craigslist right now:

ONLY 2 LEFT!!!!! Buck Deer vouchers for Private or Public land use. Vouchers enable you to hunt buck deer with out having to draw a tag from the DOW!! Why wait another year to stalk that huge buck you've seen?

Asking $1200 each, or make your best offer.

Call soon. 970-209-75zero0

Vouchers do not entitle you to hunting privileges, just the legal ability to hunt a buck mule deer on public land or private land that you've made arrangements for with the owner.

http://westslope.craigslist.org/spo/2587072785.html
 
Totally understand if the land owner kicks you off for breaking the law. The landowners could also have all hunter sign a release of liability form to protect themselves.

I was on the Bowsite forums a while back and the same issue is being brought up and discussed. The guy was advertising vouchers without access, when the people on the forum started hammering him he deleted his post.

I just want to see if this issue is very wide spread. I only know a few people that buy vouchers and every one has had some type of issue.
 
It happens more often then not.

I know people who buy vouchers from a landowner who wont allow them to hunt his land becuase he has it leased out, but they also get a pretty decent deal on the voucher. If you buy a voucher it legally gives you access to the land that the voucher was issued for. If you strike an upfront agreement before hand with the landowner agreeing to hunt elsewhere or to hunt with restricted access then that is between you and the landowner.

Now if the land owner sells you the voucher and then denies you access and you were not told or agreed to anything ahead of time thats a different issue.




What I have a problem with and see all the time is people trying to resell vouchers, I see this on Craigslist all the time. Last year Italked to a guy who claims he was an outfitter he told me that I could by the voucher from him and he would guide me for one price.

I said I dont need a guide just the voucher he then told me well I sell you the voucher you can't hunt the land. I asked him if he was the land owner he said no I am a outfitter and lease it. When I brought up the law about the transfer of the voucher being one time and directly from landowner to the person buying it he hung up the phone.



THE LORD IS MY ROCK
Colorado, U.S.A
NRA LIFE MEMBER
www.ElkHunterSports.com
marines.jpg

fox14.gif
 
Three years ago I had a landowner call me regarding my ad in the newpaper - he offered me a tag only if I promised not to come near his land. I didn't purchase the tag - ironically, I knew the guy had a private ranch that bordered the BLM land that we hunted. The instigator in me wanted to buy the tag and just hunt the property to see what would happen but I figured I was worth more to my wife and kids alive.

I have since purchased a couple landowner tags from another rancher and it has been a great experience. To access this marginal piece of property I have to cross thru other properties and the landowner introduced me to those owners who have been very helpful. The landowner tag option has given me way's to meet landowners that I would have never been able to meet before. Unfortuately, I've had to pay to play.
 
If an outfitter leases a ranch, controls who and how much the vouchers are sold to, uses the vouchers for his outfitting business, is this not third partying vouchers, even if the ranch gets paid for and hands out the vouchers? Would the outfitter not be making profit by giving the vouchers to his clients?
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-11 AT 02:32PM (MST)[p]I do believe you are correct that it would be considered third party brokering. I buy vouchers when I can from a large landowner on the Eastern Plains of Colorado and I know for a fact he sells a majority of his vouchers to an outfitter who turns around and sells them to his clients at a profit.

For example I know for a fact that the landowner sold 2 buck antelope vocuhers to this outfitter for $500.00 each and for a fact the outfitter advertised that he had 2 land owner vouchers for $1000.00 each for the unit thus making a $500.00 profit on each voucher they also hunted the landonwers property, again I know this for a fact. This should of voided the voucher because it was third party.

I have not tried to report this is becuase it would punish the landowner and not the outfitter. The landowner if found to be in violation can lose the issue of vouchers for up to 5 years He is selling them to the outfitter and if the outfitter is abusing the law then he should be punished not the landowner.

I really wish there was a list of landowners who wanted to sell their vouchers available from DOW instead of these tag brokers jacking up the price.

THE LORD IS MY ROCK
Colorado, U.S.A
NRA LIFE MEMBER
www.ElkHunterSports.com
marines.jpg

fox14.gif
 
The voucher itself is a permission letter, signed by the owner.
But they can limit your access to foot only, and they do not have to even tell you where their property is. If they don't want you there, they can leave it up to you to figure out the location, property boundaries, access points, etc.
 
A SHORT READ;BUT READ IT MANY TIMES AND THINK ABOUT HOW IT READS. www.wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/Prioritylandowner

If you feel you have a violation please call the DOW,AS A LAND OWNER I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU GUYS ARE REFERRING TO.Iam referring to private land only not what coloradooak has posted (public or private).It is unlawfull to sell a private land voucher to a hunter and denie access.THAT IS BS FRIEND REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU MAY THINK.

CALL THE DOW!
 
it is BS, and it does happen..get the DOW involved may help get you on, but then of course the LO will slap you with so many restrictions it aint even worth it..seen it over and over again.
 
HEY REDDOG LET ME HELP YOU OUT WITH THIS;GIVE AN EXAMPLE OR EVEN A, FOR INSTINCE
I want to know what is happening with these vouchers myself; my vouchers go to the familey, I have never sold one to anyone and hope that i never need to.I am on your side of this equation and i will act as needed.I do know the LAW.
I hunt every year when i can and looking forward to this year,give me some evidence and facts and we will proceed together.If in fact that the Law is inadaquite and is or to vague,we together can reslove this.Private land* opposed to public /private land vouchers i am not sure of,I will educate myself soon.
A great topic to start off a monday.

When in dought call the DOW !
 
There are two public meetings being held next week to discuss the voucher program. It would be great if hunters who have had negative experiences would attend those meetings and testify.

Private land voucher program to be discussed

DENVER ? Sportsmen who are interested in improving Colorado's Landowner Preference Program, a program that supports hunting opportunities on private lands, are invited to attend upcoming informational meetings in Denver and in Grand Junction.

The Denver meeting will be held on September 27 from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. at in the Bighorn Room at the Colorado Parks and Wildlife building at 6060 Broadway Ave. The Grand Junction meeting will be held on Sept. 29 from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. in the Hunter Education Building at the Colorado Parks and Wildlife campus at 711 Independent Avenue.

For the last 20 months, a collaborative committee of landowners, sportsmen, outfitters and wildlife managers has been meeting to review the program, also known as the landowner voucher program, and identify ways to improve its effectiveness. The group has identified several possible changes and is seeking input from sportsmen to help evaluate these options.

"The landowner voucher program supports landowners who manage their lands to support wildlife, and over the years it has helped us manage our state?s big game populations while increasing hunting opportunity," said Dave Chadwick of Colorado Parks and Wildlife. "But sportsmen have raised concerns legitimate with how the program operates. This committee has found some opportunities to make this program better and they need to hear from sportsmen to help them refine their proposals."

Colorado?s Landowner Preference Program sets aside up to 15 percent of the elk, deer, and pronghorn licenses in limited game management units for qualifying landowners. More than 7 million acres of private lands are registered in the program. To qualify, a landowner must enroll at least 160 acres of agricultural land that is inhabited by deer, elk or pronghorn for most of the year in a game management unit where firearm hunting licenses are totally limited by the Parks and Wildlife Commission.

These licenses are made available through a draw process to landowners, and they can then be sold or transferred to any eligible hunter and are valid in the entire Game Management Unit where private land is located. The number of vouchers available to a landowner varies with the amount of acreage enrolled.

By encouraging private landowners to protect wildlife habitat and provide hunting opportunities, the program plays an important role in management of Colorado?s big game. However, concerns have been raised over the years with how the program operates. The committee has discussed requiring information collection about the use of landowner vouchers, enhancing enforcement of program violations, and making changes to the eligibility requirements for landowners. The group?s recommendations for improvements may include legislative or regulatory changes, policy statements and better reporting of program operations.

The meetings will include presentations about potential program changes and discussion with committee representatives. All interested sportsmen are encouraged to attend and share their views. The meetings are open to any member of the public.

Attendees are encouraged to RSVP to the committee?s facilitator, Dave Chadwick, at [email protected] or 303-291-7174 to help get an accurate headcount.
 
BS:In regards to the very first post only.Read *dirtygrass*; first sentence and the last sentence in the post.

Yes:The transfer of a*Private Property*landowner voucher does give the hunter permission to hunt on the land for which the voucher was awarded for and for the duration of that season printed on the voucher.
The landowner my restrict how you hunt the property(ie,travel by foot,horseback,atv and or vehicle;but he has to let you on.

Yes:In fact if you do have a problem with the landowner granting you access; and you need to call the DOW;THEY WILL COME,as soon as they can.

www.wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/PriortyLandowner

Any problems with ladowner vouchers: call Erick @ the DOW
 
CoOak: I recieved that in an E-mail from the DOW a few days ago and an interesting read indeed.I know some folks that will be attending.
Great Hunting To All!
 
Maybe the only way to finally fix the voucher issue is to make all vouchers good ONLY for private land and then have DOW give out landowners info to purchase vouchers from. IMO they should make it where you have to go through the land onwer period to buy a voucher no brokers period.

THE LORD IS MY ROCK
Colorado, U.S.A
NRA LIFE MEMBER
www.ElkHunterSports.com
marines.jpg

fox14.gif
 
No BS about it, I know for a fact the hunter called the DOW Saturday morning and was told it was not a wildlife violation and there was nothing they could do, I was with him when he made the call!
 
I could never afford one myself so i say eliminate it or make them a raffle or something to take the money part out of it. It sucks to watch this sport and way of life for all of us become a money game.
 
I believe someone told you that at the dOW. I also think about 50 percent of the people who answer the general ph lines have no clue what they are talking about. It really makes it hard to get to the bottom of confusing regulations.

>No BS about it, I know
>for a fact the hunter
>called the DOW Saturday morning
>and was told it was
>not a wildlife violation and
>there was nothing they could
>do, I was with him
>when he made the call!
>
 
I agree that the outfitters and land owner vouchers have been a big part of preference point creep and making hunting into a rich man sport. I think they should do away with land owner vouchers and dump the 15% back into the general drawing.
I really wanted to go to the DOW voucher meeting but I had to work late and any work is good!
Did anyone attend the DOW meeting?

It's funny the DOW did nothing to help my friend but the State Attorney General's office has taken some interest and the sheriff.
 
Vouchers and turning some units into limited draw. I personally like the voucher system, it allows us young NRs the ability to hunt decent units and makes husband/wife-father/son, etc. hunt planning a lot easier.
 
I dont mind the voucher system, but I would like to see the vouchers good for ONLY PRIVATE LAND, still unit wide but good only on priavte land.

I also would like to see the elimination of the tag brokers period, let the hunters deal with the land owner and let the land onwer collect all the money.


THE LORD IS MY ROCK
Colorado, U.S.A
NRA LIFE MEMBER
www.ElkHunterSports.com
marines.jpg

fox14.gif
 
>I dont mind the voucher system,
>but I would like to
>see the vouchers good for
>ONLY PRIVATE LAND, still unit
>wide but good only on
>priavte land.
>
>I also would like to see
>the elimination of the tag
>brokers period, let the hunters
>deal with the land owner
>and let the land onwer
>collect all the money.
>
>
>THE LORD IS MY ROCK
>Colorado, U.S.A
>NRA LIFE MEMBER
>www.ElkHunterSports.com
>
marines.jpg

>
fox14.gif



The Landowner Voucher should only be good on private and the specific GMU that their land is in IMO
 
I believe the Voucher system is to offset the landowner for costs associated with having wildlife on their property, ie; broken fences, hay stacks eaten, crops damaged. In most areas of Colorado I've been in, the wintering ground is mostly private. It's just good common sense to have the landowner look out for the best interest of wildlife. This from a one time landowner voucher purchaser who will probably never purchase another one.

Now on the other hand, Tag pimps are still pimps. Lots of states provide a list of landowners that drew landowner tags. Why not Colorado??? Let every dollar we spend go to the landowner instead of some guy that hunts all over North America on the profits he makes from selling us Vouchers.
 
dirtygrass, I feel for you and your friend. I had a very bad experience last year in Colorado. As a nonresident (one with only 5 points) I really like the idea behind the voucher program. However, the DOW does not take third party brokering serious. Just look at this site. Third party brokering goes on all the time. Everyone knows it is happening but no one does anything about it. I am not going to get into the details of what happened to my dad and I but I will say I spoke with the landowner about his actions and deceit, the outfitter I bought the vouchers from,the CO over the unit and filed a complaint with Erik in Denver and guess what the landowner is still in the program, received vouchers this year, sold them to the same outfitter who resold one to a friend of a friend. I wish I lived closer because I would have really liked to have attended that meeting.
 
I and others I know have bought vouchers and were told we could not hunt the property, they were a good deal so I wasnt to worried, and at the time I didnt know the land owner had to give me access. Since then I have learned that they do, and wish I would have known. I know it is a problem, but do believe the landowners deserve the vouchers because of what was mentioned above about the wildlife doing damage. But they do need to follow the rules of the program, or should be punished and the vouchers should be given to landowners that will follow the regulations.
 
>dirtygrass, I feel for you and
>your friend. I had
>a very bad experience last
>year in Colorado. As a
>nonresident (one with only 5
>points) I really like the
>idea behind the voucher program.
>However, the DOW does not
>take third party brokering serious.
>Just look at this site.
>Third party brokering goes on
>all the time. Everyone knows
>it is happening but no
>one does anything about it.
>I am not going to
>get into the details of
>what happened to my dad
>and I but I will
>say I spoke with the
>landowner about his actions and
>deceit, the outfitter I bought
>the vouchers from,the CO over
>the unit and filed a
>complaint with Erik in Denver
>and guess what the landowner
>is still in the program,
>received vouchers this year, sold
>them to the same outfitter
>who resold one to a
>friend of a friend. I
>wish I lived closer because
>I would have really liked
>to have attended that meeting.
>

If I were you, I would write a letter to the Editor of the Denver paper(s) (seems like there are two?) explaining what happened and asking why the landowner is allowed to still be in the program. Also write a letter to the Colorado outdoors magazine with the same question. In the past, they have at least printed my letters even if the answers were lame and incomplete. What we need is to throw some light on the issue to get the gears turning in the right direction.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-11 AT 04:54PM (MST)[p]


Denver is down to one Paper now.


Here's the address. The Denver Post is 101 W. Colfax Ave, Denver, Colorado, 80202




Hiker

Proverbs 3:5-6
 
My buddy and I have pushed the issue as far as we could, we have talked to every organization in the state and no one cares. We have considered civil action but that would probably be a waste of time also.
 
>My buddy and I have pushed
>the issue as far as
>we could, we have talked
>to every organization in the
>state and no one cares.
> We have considered civil
>action but that would probably
>be a waste of time
>also.

I don't think it would be a waist of time, to prove this point.
I personally cannot afford to pay for these things, and if I did put money together to purchase one, and was not allowed to hunt the land.. all parties involved would have a BIG problem on their hands....
 

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