lets try this again WYO RESIDENTS ONLY! 82604

S

strang

Guest
Not because n/res dont have good ideas, But because it would be good to know how many in here are residents and what a pure resident opinion is. The summer session is all about formulating ideas that can lead to positive changes to generate revenue, improve the system, and address objections. This is a good place to start. It cant work with people jousting at each other. Make positive suggestions, present remedies, and if you post a gripe post a solution, Maybe this could be a positive start to the Res licensing that pleases the most folks. As one system will never please all. Start your post with a zip code maybe youll find people in your area with similar veiws
 
I like the current system and don't think it needs to be changed. That being said, if a point system has to go into effect I would like a NV type system. A bonus point over a preference point system all day long. It gives those that have not draw in a while a better chance but still leaves the draw open to everybody. I live in Cheyenne, Wyoming.
 
82072 . . . I like Wyoming's system the way it is VS. a preference point system such as the one proposed earlier. I would be willing to entertain some sort of a hybrid system like the one mentioned above.

It's evident that draw odds are going south, primarily for mule deer, but also for elk and antelope, since quotas are being reduced, so those highly sought after areas are going to be hard to draw no matter what system is in place. People seem to think that a preference point system will make it better.
 
Just give me my sheep and moose tag. Therefore I am out of the drawing and you guys are one step closer... Just kidding!!!

I am not sure what the best system would be. I have a hard time with change so I am leaning towards keeping what we got..

I do like random draws like on mountain goats. I was 24 when I got that but then again I know guys putting in over 30 years and no luck.(over 30 years is a long wait)

I also know guys you get a sheep tag and after the 5 year wait it seems like they get another tag couple years after that.

Lot of good ideas and some are bad. so I am staying neutral.
 
82604 Set aside any previous proposals. I would like to see all three choices considered before a license is suspended.if prefpoints are preferred I think 50/50 split and unsucessful p/p applicants with over three points accrued do no drop to random pool. Pref point applicants who pool apps the lowest point person is the point level considered. exception party apps of two of which one is youth will be averaged
 
There is probably not any difference as far as a chance to draw goes, but I wish they would drop the number allowed to put in as a party down to 3. If I remember right, it is currently 6. That eats up available tags in a hurry. Opportunity could be spread around to different groups a lot more fairly. Friends and family could still tag along with whoever draws but tag spread would be a lot better.
 
This is my first year being able to hunt as a Res. and from previous years appling as a NR I sure like my options a lot better as a Res. I hope it doesn't change, but when it comes to politics in the end they'll do what the heck they want for the most part.
 
Preference points for residents are a good step forward to limited quota. Which I believe LQ is essential in todays hunting environment; That is if we are going to have sustained quality hunting...

Here in the western part of Wyoming the season is cut as short as possible. The nonresidents are cut as low as they will allow. With the herd is hanging on in fair condition. The only tool left besides destroying the herd is LIMITED QUOTA!!!

We need to take some pressure off the mule deer somehow....

For that reason I support resident Preference Points.
 
I'm in Star Valley. Leave it as it is. As stated on the other thread, we have an awesome deal here for residents. Others are welcome to move here and benefit. If they don't want to move here, then concentrate on making the opportunities better where they are. If they can afford the greenbacks and time to hunt multiple states, they have more privilege then most already.

I'm not dissing on non-residents. We all live where we live for different reasons. In some cases, income and job availability supersedes other quality of life things. Other factors play in as well. I am a non-resident of all but one state. I might be able to afford to hunt another state in terms of funding, but not in terms of time. It is one reason I have stayed in Wyoming when lucrative offers have come from elsewhere. Not just hunting and fishing, but other outdoors activities, the beauty of the land, fresh air, good water, great people and a slower pace (as long as you stay out of some of the bigger towns).
 
Not trying to hijack the thread, but I need to ask a question of wolfhunter and have to do it this way because he has disabled his email and PM in his profile, so here goes. I do agree with you that it appears more units may need to go to LQ because of them being on the general tag that doesn't restrict residents. My question is if more units would be made LQ, do you think it would be possible to leave the system as random draw and/or possibly even have several year waiting period after being drawn for one that would accomplish about the same thing as going to PPs?
 
I live in Park County, Wyoming. I would say leave it alone. I am not a hunter who draws LQ tags with regularity. I have drawn one LQ elk tag and one LQ antelope tag in 12 years. I did draw a LQ moose tag in 2011 with 10 points. I am sitting on 12 preference points for sheep. I no longer put in for goats even though they are virtually in my backyard. I would love to draw a great LQ elk tag in 54 but I won't hold my breath. This area has slowly changed to where there is only a single general elk season within two hours of my home. If I don't draw an LQ elk tag this year, I won't hunt elk. In the past two years, I have passed small bulls in a general area because they were not what I wanted. That falback area will be LQ this year.

My two biggest complaints about hunting in this part of Wyoming are the following:

1) Too many outfitters on public land and a complacent USFS issuing too many special use permits to these folks; and

2) A Game and Fish department that is altering season dates and pushing LQ that virtually accomplish nothing in the overall management of game in this area.

I love hunting in Wyoming and if all I hunt each year is a deer, I can live with that.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-13 AT 09:18AM (MST)[p]Leave it alone or bonus points. Preference points penalize new/youth hunters. Nonresident points can't exceed the maximum resident amount if someone moves to Wyoming.

Rather than going totally limited quota. Resident applicants should have a choice in applying for a limited quota unit or a general tag, but not both. This would improve draw odds for the limited quota units and reduce pressure on the general units. Problem is, no one wants to give up anything - including F&G revenue for the general tag reduction.
 
82801....I lean heavily to keeping the same system we have "random" draw, this keeps it fair for the youth hunters and the men/women who are taking up hunting. My second choice would be the "bonus system", still gives everyone a chance to draw but gives a bit of an advantage to the guy who has had some poor luck in drawing their first choice. The PP system is a failure for the kids and new comers to the hunting community, so hopefully we don't fall into this scam for deer, antelope and elk.

Someone mentioned the 5 yr waiting peiod for sheep and moose. I would be for that being changed to either a lifetime tag if an animal was harvested or go to a 10 yr waiting period. There are quite a few guys who are lucky and draw that tag again after the 5yr waiting period and not only that there is just that many more applicants being added to the pool each year who have already drawn a tag. I just think it is something that needs to be looked at....

Someone mentioned the party tag applicants, I have to agree with them too that 6 is way too many tags taken out for just one number getting drawn. I am not sure what would be a good max number, but 6 is way too many, I would say 3 is more than enough.

With the Mule Deer concerns within this state, it probably is wise to go to a LQ tag for mule deer hunting and drop the "General Deer" tags to statewide "only" whitetail deer hunting. Now, I am no expert in this and whether that is feasible, what i mentioned, but there needs to be some discussions about the Mule Deer and how to handle the hunting pressure on them.

With revenue, that is a hard deal to figure on how to create it without raising the price of the tags. I really was surprised that the price did't get raised. We all know the the cost of the tag is cheap compared to the cost of all the equipment most have to go hunting with. I for one do not want to make this a "rich" man's sport, but the cost of the tag is reasonable and I believe they should be more than they are now.

Thats my 2 cents that i have on my mind for now. I hope we all can come up with some good ideas and all come together for the better of the sportsmen/women of this great state!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-13 AT 11:53AM (MST)[p]11 resident posts is that all the residents in this forum or do all the others just nit give a hoot And Top Gun no offense but abstain
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-13 AT 01:57PM (MST)[p]">11 resident posts is that all
>the residents in this forum
>or do all the others
>just nit give a hoot
>And Top Gun no offense
>but abstain"

***I am offended because this is the only way I have to contact
wolfhunter as I explained when I asked him the question. If his profile wasn't disabled I wouldn't have come on this thread---pretty simple really! I did not post any of my thoughts to you or the resident members, but just asked WH a simple question for him to answer back to me and he can do that in a PM if he'd like so it won't get your dander up. Is that such a big problem when you are already chastizing others for not responding? You do know that a lot of the guys are working stiffs and it is a Monday that a lot of them don't have off!
 
>I live in Park County, Wyoming.
>I would say leave it
>alone. I am not a
>hunter who draws LQ tags
>with regularity. I have drawn
>one LQ elk tag and
>one LQ antelope tag in
>12 years. I did draw
>a LQ moose tag in
>2011 with 10 points. I
>am sitting on 12 preference
>points for sheep. I no
>longer put in for goats
>even though they are virtually
>in my backyard. I would
>love to draw a great
>LQ elk tag in 54
>but I won't hold my
>breath. This area has slowly
>changed to where there is
>only a single general elk
>season within two hours of
>my home. If I don't
>draw an LQ elk tag
>this year, I won't hunt
>elk. In the past two
>years, I have passed small
>bulls in a general area
>because they were not what
>I wanted. That falback area
>will be LQ this year.
>
>
>My two biggest complaints about hunting
>in this part of Wyoming
>are the following:
>
>1) Too many outfitters on public
>land and a complacent USFS
>issuing too many special use
>permits to these folks; and
>
>
>2) A Game and Fish department
>that is altering season dates
>and pushing LQ that virtually
>accomplish nothing in the overall
>management of game in this
>area.
>
>I love hunting in Wyoming and
>if all I hunt each
>year is a deer, I
>can live with that.


I agree, I am a park county resident. These outfitters are getting a lot of power, that's why I disagree with that best of the west show and john porter. not suppose to film hunts in the wilderness but he can for some reason. Also I put in local for antelope and in 12 years I got nothing. had to travel across the state. our elk hunting is hurting. All the good LQ hunts are gone. Like the late season bull tags. mostly gone cause of the wolves.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-13 AT 05:02PM (MST)[p]I'm surprised that you guys are saying G&F is pushing LQ in the nw part of the state(it sounded like that was what you were implying,mightyhunter).They are very opposed to LQ in the sw corner.

My zip is 82901,and here are my suggestions.

I would like to see 3 separate draws:Elk first,deer second,and goats third.If you draw elk,you are out of the other 2;if you draw deer,you are out of the antelope draw.Remember-you can still hunt deer and elk general.Antelope odds would be somewhat better with this system.

DEFINITELY reduce party apps to 3 from 6(maybe even 2).How many familys really need 6 elk per year?

Maybe try having residents pick a region(like nonres do now) for deer when you buy your general license.I would rather see this tried before going statewide LQ.Another option would be split seasons.

If we must go to a point system,the Nevada style bonus point system is hands down the best in the west.Points are squared,meaning the longer you are in the game,your chances of drawing drastically increase.

Bear in mind that I live in Rock Springs.All the units down here for all species are very highly sought after by people from all over the state.Draw odds are very low;especially for deer and elk.Some antelope odds have even dropped below 15%.
 
Topgun; You could start another post and ask wolf lover for his contact info, just saying.

Random draw sucks, preference points suck worse. We have a chance to get this right and we have a small population of residents, unlike other states that are forced into using a point system due to the high population of resident hunters.

Weighted waiting periods If you draw a hunt area that has <10% draw odds you have a 10yr wait before another 1st choice LE permit for that species. Draw a <20% chance and you have a 5yr wait on a first choice LE tag. <30% chance and you have a 3yr wait on a first choice tag of the respective species. <40% 2yr wait. <50% 1 yr wait. Anything over a 50% chance and you'll probably draw with enough frequency that you don't need much help. With this system you'd still be eligible for your second, third, and fourth choices. This is a bit complicated a standard 5 yr wait for all species after being successful would be a good start
A staggered draw for all limited quota opportunities. The order would be sheep, moose, goats, elk, deer, and antelope. If you draw a sheep permit you would be out of the rest of the draws. If you draw a moose permit you would be out of the remaining draws. This would repeat till all the LE tags are drawn. No reason any applicant should have two LE permits in any given year. I have three friends that last year had premium deer tags and ha 60 antelope tags last year. This progressively removes applicants from the draw. 250 people from the moose draw, 500 or so from the goat draw 600 from the elk draw. Thousands from the deer draw and by the time you get to antelope you have pretty decent odds.

I think a combination of the two ideas above would drastically improve odds. I would be a little bummed that I could never have one of those dream seasons where you have a 31 elk tag and a 102 deer tag in the same season but realistically it is probably not fair especially when most of my neighbors haven't had this elk tag for 20 + years.

If I had to have a points system I could live with a true bonus squared like Nevada. Although were back to the same argument I have against points systems that they don't do anything to actually change odds.
Whatever you do should take applicants out of the pool or somehow add permits to the pool without changing hunt quality.
What really needs to happen is a group of sportsmen appointed by the G&F, commission, or the legislators that explore all the options. This should include representatives from all sportsmen groups. The general public, and other interested parties.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-13 AT 08:25PM (MST)[p]nontypical,

I am not implying anything. Game and Fish in 2010 changed 50,51,52 and 53 from General Areas to LQ. In 2013, Area 55 is going from a General Area to LQ. Area 55 had been my fall back area if I didn't draw LQ. 54 and 121 have been LQ for quite some time. Most of the late season LQ tags in NW Wyoming have been eliminated. That leaves only a few remote areas open around here for a general season. I am not a horse guy and prefer hunting as a DIY foot soldier at age 58. I don't know what they are doing in SW Wyoming with elk. I have only really hunted deer (Hoback) and moose (Area 10)in that part of the state. With the high demand for non-resident deer tags in G&H, the outfitters have started hammering the migratory deer population in certain parts of F. In some areas, you are lucky if an outfitter doesn't trample you with a horse caravan in the backcountry or yell at you for wandering into "his spot".

I would not have a problem with a person only being able to draw a single LQ tag per year. I have never hit the jackpot with two LQ tags in a year.
 
feduptwo---Thanks, but the reason I did what I did is because he said some time ago that he would only discuss stuff out on the open Forums and would not take any PMs or emails. I didn't think asking out on this thread was a big deal because I respected that strang started the thread not wanting NRs views, whcih is not what I posted. Sorry if I bothered anyone the way I did it and I didn't even think about starting another thread to ask him!
 
82321/83014/82520

I believe that the random is best at present time for a couple reasons.

1. How many times do you see people that shoot their first bull elk in Utah at 30 years old or older. Most of the time it is a monster bull, but I will take my years of hunting over the one opportunity any day. I shot my first bull at 14 because that was when I could start hunting...not like the age 12 now. Since then I have been lucky enough to shoot 15 elk in 16 years.

2. I worry with the change to PP system will encourage more units being pushed towards LQ units. Atleast now if we don't draw a tag we can always find a fall back area to hunt. I kind of covered this above but the general units are important to keep they younger people involved in hunting a give them good experiences.

py
 
So much for no non-residents! Asking people to respect the intentions of a post is becoming as elusive as a big Wyoming mule deer.

The end results of no changes to the current system is a very bad preference point system. They came close this time. Next time they'll be a little more organized and it will be done. This baby isn't being put to bed until we do something to address crappy odds.
 
82941...
I wouldn't mind a change to the current system, maybe I am jaded, but in 20+ years of applying as a resident in Wyoming I have drawn a grand total of 1 elk tag and no deer tags. And, its not that I have been applying for the hardest-to-draw, premo units. In the same time, I have drawn 2 moose tags thanks to preference points, and a sheep soon (long story..I got behind on points thanks to college and no option to purchase for first 5 years!) Call me what you will, but I do feel at some point I am "entitled" to draw a deer or elk tag, and bank on a goat tag every 2-3 years. Maybe PP aren't the perfect solution, but the current system could be improved upon.
I will sign off by saying " thank God for general license opportunites in Wyoming, they have been more than good to me over the years"
 
I have made some major revisions to the "Fair License Fee Proposal" I would ask all to read it carefully and give me some feedback on how it might be improved further. Suggested edits or changes are welcomed. Please no snide cracks if you dont like it suggest how you would like it. The fee increase is coming we can turn a negative into a positive by working together. www.drawalicensenow.blogspot.com
 
Trying to limit responses to this thread shows how desperate the originators are to gin up support for a proposal without merit. I have family in WY that don't post to this board, but have very strong opinions about these changes. At least 4 current resident hunter's views were reflected in my post. While I don't currently reside in WY, that doesn't mean my family members won't be voting in WY and lobbying against this proposal. No doubt you will discount this dissenting feedback as you have done in the past, but don't delude yourself into thinking you have strong resident support for these changes.
Bill
 
llamapacker---Ah, now I now understand why strang put up that question to you! It was strictly trying to chastize you for being a NR and posting your earlier comment about staying with a random draw. I'm basicly in the same boat in that I have two close Wyoming resident friends that want it to stay the way it is and they also are not on this website!
 
"I have made some major revisions to the "Fair License Fee Proposal" I would ask all to read it carefully and give me some feedback on how it might be improved further."

Despite my better judgement, but since you asked,

First suggestion: If you're going to "outline" how the draw works in your supporting info, you should actually get it right. You've been told enough times.

Second suggestion: After learning how the draw works, edit your supporting info to remove ridiculous statements such as this one:

"Presently non resident and future resident pref. point applicants have two opportunities to have their first choice option drawn. First in the pref. point draw, and then they are pooled with all other remaining applicants and their first choice is considered again in the random draw. This procedure increases the number of random draw applicants by as much as 75%. Making a successful draw for a non pointed random draw applicant that much more difficult."

For those Residents wondering how the NR draw actually works:

Every applicant is in the PP draw with their 1st choice, even those with 0 points. Then, the remaining 1st choice applicants are dropped down to the random draw, with the same 1st choice and hunt number, but a new random number.
Therefor, the 1st choice pool in every Random draw hunt has fewer applicants than the same hunt in the PP draw, not more. There is no "pooling" with "other remaining applicants".
 
Your statement is true but those with no points have little or no chance to draw a tag of any significance in the pref point round. The random draw was set up to give non point holders a chance by adding the 25% of tags set aside for the random draw. The 75% figure comes in in the number af applicants in the random draw that drop down after having a reasonable shot at a tag in the p/p draw ie 3pts und up. Thats is why the applicants above 3 points would no longer drop to the random draw. This was a suggestion that was made by the proponnents of the res pref point program.
 
You should have your buddies sign on to the forum always best to get their input first hand. And they would be privy to all conversations. Doesnt seem relevent to get opinion for someone who doesnt know the res and non res have different draw dates. Resident issues are a whole different world from non res issues
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-13 AT 01:27PM (MST)[p]>You should have your buddies sign
>on to the forum always
>best to get their input
>first hand. And they would
>be privy to all conversations.
>Doesnt seem relevent to get
>opinion for someone who doesnt
>know the res and non
>res have different draw dates.
>Resident issues are a whole
>different world from non res
>issues

That's a real good one saying WB or I don't know there are different draw dates for residents compared to NRs, LOL! FYI he and I know more than you have ever shown you know about the draw with all the mistakes you've made since you started your "fair proposal" and the only reason you want a change is to beneft your outfitter business or you'd put up only the correct facts in your blog! By leaving it like you have it makes those who don't know how the draw actaully works think you've come up with a better system fo them. Yea right, its real fair when a guy can get the same tag on a 3rd choice as a guy that has it as his first choice and then doesn't draw because his random number wasn't drawn before the other guy. Why don't you just up and friggin move to NM if you think your system is so great as that's the friggin BS people have to live with who put in for that state!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-13 AT 07:24PM (MST)[p]I have some family in California that is opposed to tax increases at the end of the day its their responsibility to lobby against it because what California does is there business. Same with RESIDENT preference points. If this was a goverment sponsered website where legislators were gauging public opinion on preference points I would welcome all to represent family and friends.
All Strang asked was in this post titled "lets try this again WYO RESIDENTS ONLY!" was what residents thought about how drawing odds should be addressed.
Since we know TOPGUN has a opinion on everything and loves to hear himself type it would have been appropriate to start another post, (like what was started today), titled "what non residents think". Instead 3 nano seconds into the thread hes hijacking the thread asking dumb questions that have nothing to do with the content of the thread, apparently just to make sure we all knew he was still around. Pathedic.
Memo to TOPGUN it is perfectly appropriate to read a thread or two without adding your stupid comments. There is no reward for he who posts the most comments.
Just for the record TOPGUN and myself agree that preference points aren't the right fit for Wyoming so the arguement that I want to silence the opposing opinion probably isn't correct.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-13 AT 08:22PM (MST)[p]feduptwo---I told you exactly why I did what I did and apologized for not thinking or realizing that I could start another thread just to contact WH! If people weren't so GD paranoid about putting up their profile so they could be emailed or a PM sent to them, I wouldn't have had to post anything at all out in the Forum! If you dont like it, then I apologize again and you can either accept it or not as I really don't give a chit what you think!!! I guess my PM to you apparently wasn't sufficient enough to close this matter. Nope, you had to come on again and flap your gums some more for no good reason. Just for the record, IMHO one little post asking a member to contact me is not hijacking a thread and the only pathetic thing is that you have now made several posts in regards to it for no damn reason when one easily sufficed in getting your message across!
 
">Like I said feel free to
>read a few threads and
>not feel the need to
>comment, Thanks in advance"


***I guess your reading comprehension is still not up to speed, so I'll say it one more time. I'll post whenever and however many times I feel like if I feel I can add to any thread. If you don't like it, then too bad and don't read them!!! In case you haven't noticed, I've probably helped more people answering their questions on this Forum that almost anyone else and you'd be surprised how many PMs I get in thanks and asking for other help. Also, FYI the only Forums I'm on a lot are this one and the General Forum!
 
TOPGUN,

Your like a child deprived of attention. As long as someone is paying attention to you (negative or not) your happy, regardless of how ridiculous you look or act.

DUDE GET A LIFE!!! OR SOME THERAPY!!!!!!!!!!!

MAYBE IF NOBODY TALKS TO HIM HE WILL GO BOTHER SOMONE ELSE ON ANOTHER SITE.

Sorry for the distraction to a great discussion, this is an important discussion for residents to have; We all can see our hunting is not what it was 10 years ago. I am open to whatever works for our wildlife. I just feel Region G & H are in need of some resident and nonresident pressure reduction. How ever we get there great! but if we do nothing you had better look at Idaho for what is coming. We all need to sacrifice something....

I have lost faith the G&F will make the best choice for wildlife. To much is dictated by their budget. The wyoming resident has the power to demand change. We just need to agree on what that change should be.

Nontypical I am open to your ideas... We could make a choice on what species is important for the year. Still go hunting but sacrifice some too. I like it!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-13 AT 12:14PM (MST)[p]>Also, FYI the only Forums I'm on a lot are this one and
>the General Forum!

Maybe you could convince Founder to create a Topgun Forum. Then you could go talk to yerself and yer minutia of followers all day long. Just think of how many more thank you pm's you get. And Founder too...
 
You all have a nice day and continue with your resident PP discussion now and I hope you all truly get what you deserve!
 
feduptwo,wolfhunter,tripleBB
BRAVO!
We can come up with a constructive solution for this summers committee. I am also tired of overcrowding and getting stuck in general areas. To make a solution work it must be a pretty general concensus.
 
I like the system the way it is,however, I do agree certain units need a reduction in tags. Hey smokestick why are you not giving your two cents?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-13 AT 10:57AM (MST)[p]The general concensus on this board is to leave the system as is. I have no problem to listen to a NR as they have been living the PP system for years now (in many states) and they see what it does. They can have some good input, but what I am seeing is Strang don't like the fact that even a NR says the "Fair" way to have a draw is a Random draw. I read the "Fair License Fee Proposal", it's a joke, I don't care how many propsals Hicks and whomever can come up with, but there is nothing MORE Fair than a random draw. If and ONLY if we (State of Wyoming Hunters_-NOT outfitters or politicians) need some kind of "point" system (which we don't) then go with the Bonus System (Nevada Like, it's an easy system to implement). As I mentioned before the PP system for moose and sheep is a complete failure, anything to do with splitting tags apart for this guy and that guy is unfair and unjust. I am a firm believer that hunting in this State or any State is a privilege not a right. I have seen (within my own family) hunters go many yrs without drawing that "1st" choice tag, but guess what, they(we) still hunted, why must we complain because we didn't draw THAT tag???? Wyoming has a great system for Residents with the "general areas" that are out there. Not one single hunter in this State or any other State has a Right to hunt any single area, they have a privilege and when that privilege presents itself take advantage of it. I want a system that is good for the youth and any new hunters getting involved. They are the ones who will carry this privilege through the next generation, so why handicap them with a PP system for elk, deer and antelope, they already are handicapped with mooose and sheep. Too many people now think they are entitled to this and that, well we're not.

For any lack of funding that is needed for the G&F, RAISE the price of the tags, if you can afford to go hunting you can afford a tag. Heck a box of bullets cost the same as our deer/antelope tags now, if not our elk tag cost. If tags for Residents need raised to help out, then do it.

Again get rid of the 6 party tag applicants, makes no sense to have this for a resident.

Sheep and moose tags (Ram and bull) should be lifetime tags if an animal is harvested.
 
I am a farmer first and an outfitter second but also a resident and hunter. Probably a lot of politicians hunt also. I in no way have a financial interest in res licenses. I agree pure random is the right way to go. But right now wyo does not have a pure random because they do not consider all choices in the first go around. Thus there is a major advantage to those focusing on one area every year. I also agree a lic fee increase is a reasonable solution to the G&F budget crisis. However the legislature considered and slammed the door on that one already. If you think my ides is a joke thats okay do you have any NEW ideas? This is the whole purpose of this thread is to come up with a new plan. I also like the bonus point system. I think it would be hard to get pushed through and then would the non res want their points switched to bonus points? really no simple answer here. If you think my proposal is a joke then submit one in detail that you dont think is a joke. You might hold the key to answer the problem. BTW I hope you are not a plumber because I don't think plumbers should have a voice lol
 
Wyobull,
To be consistent with your line of reasoning: in a pure random draw system, where there is an equal chance EVERY year for EVERY hunter (elk/deer,lope), then shouldn't it follow that we drop the 5 year waiting period on sheep & moose and let EVERY hunter have a chance every year? After all, no hunter should ever be front of any others for a tag.

If you're advocating a once in a lifetime draw for sheep & moose, shouldn't you also be for a waiting period for elk, etc premium areas? In one case you're taking some one out of a draw for a lifetime and in the other you state they they should get an equal chance each & every year.
 
Strang,I completely agree, there is no simple answer. The best answer is keep it as is, that would be my NEW idea. That way we don't have to be wasting time trying to figure something out that may or may not work. Throwing 25% and 75% tags here or there or 50/50% here or there is not going to work and any other tandem. Also with staying as is there is no need to worry about the NR points either. It is a tough deal, but I just don't know why some think we need this PP system when we know its a failure in our states and others. The Nevada system is the only system that I can see that may be some what of a better way yo go, but who knows. Oh, I tell you what if it truely is a major advantage to those focusing on one area every year, the my family must have the worst luck in the world, because that just is not the case for us. Nope I am not a plumber, I am actually big game guide.

Teepee, I am not advocating for sheep and moose tags to be lifetime, just a suggestion. Big difference between sheep/moose and elk/deer/antelope tags allowed....just saying not hard to figure that out.
 
You "leave it as is" does not address the revenue shortfall. And do "big game guides" opinions count since you must work for an outfitter to be a guide?
 
Price increase for licenses... LOL, Your opinion counts too, I stated "outfitters and politicians", because some of them like to slide things through without doing any kind of a public survey... however I am now thinking I may take up plumbing soon.
 
82414
I'll throw this out there again for elk & deer. Why not make residents choose between applying for the limited quota or a general tag?

Seems most people agree the limited quota odds are terrible and the general deer areas are overhunted - this would improve both problems. Tag prices would have to go up to make up for the money shortfall from the general tag sales decrease. Possibly making the LQ tags more expensive, though that may be a slippery slope.
 
Strang,

Your saying for a fee you would make all your choices would be considered before they moved to the next guy. Good idea what do you suppose the fee would be and could it raise enough to make a difference in the funding dilema?
Couple this with some kind of waiting period, and a staggered draw and one could probably expect a reasonable chance at drawing some kind of LE license every year. Even if it was just a antelope tag.
 
Leaving everything the same sounds good in theory; we cannot just simply leave things as is without suffering the same fate as Idaho. They have left it "as is" so long it is a joke how bad it has gotten. Not that long ago Idaho had some pretty unbelievable hunting. Most of the good stuff is gone!!!

We have to many effective hunters for our game herds. The technology has enabled to much success to simply leave it as is. This long range fetish is doing some serious damage to our trophy class. We simply can not have our cake and eat it too... Far less hunters are doing far more damage than in years past. I see fat lazy hunters from western wyoming killing trophies at 900 yards year after year, that same fat a$$ five years ago could not even punch his tag. Every young hunter now thinks he needs a 900 yard gun. They have them and they are taking some completely ridiculous shot's because they just want the trophy no matter what. Now some of the outfitters are starting to promote this kind of hunting. It will not last long at this pace!!!

I am not trying to blame the long ranger. It is just one more added pressure our herds cannot handle. I hope the long rangers use there skills on a few wolves though...
 
We have to stop the tag sale from being the only revenue generator. Game and fish cuts tags they shoot themselves in the foot budget wise. This proposal the fees are demand based not sales based. They want more money improve the quality and access and demand will go up. They will make more money without increasing tags.
 
I think the draw should stay as is for elk, deer, and antelope for Wyoming residents...completely random each year.

I really think that in states that have general tags for deer and elk, the draws for lq tags should always be random.

Different deal for states that have very limited numbers of elk/deer/pronghorn and no general tags. Those situations call for a point system.

If a preference system is implemented, I'd like to see 25% go to preference 75% to the random draw.

I'd much prefer a squared bonus point system like Nevada to any preference system.

As far as strangs idea...it is a way to raise revenue voluntarily without increasing tag numbers.

If revenue generation is the only reason for it, I'd argue that we need to come up with a funding source that is much more viable. I believe we're past asking for licnese fee increases from NR's. I'd be fine with resident fee increases.

But, the big-picture here is that license fee increases are not a long-term solution to the incredible cost increases we're going to see to manage wildlife. With development, habitat loss, etc. future management is going to be much more intensive. Intensive management costs big $$$.

We need to find alternative sources of funding wildlife...and frankly, paying extra money for your 2nd and 3rd choices to be considered is treading water.

I'm also concerned that passing strangs idea would be really jacked up if a preference/bonus system is also implemented. Then we'll be paying for preference points and also paying for 2nd and 3rd choices to be considered.

I'm starting to lean more toward the simple random draw we have...too many unknown future variables and too many asshats at the legislature with agendas.
 
It seems that bonus points are preferred to preference points by a wide margin. What if Wyoming rolled deer, elk, and antelope to a bonus point system with a 75% random 25% bonus point split for resident draw. All existing non resident points can be used as bonus points in the regular price point draw or used as preference points in the Non resident special preference point draw for three years. Unsuccessful special license with bonus point applicants would accrue bonus points not preference points and not drop to the random draw. All remaining non resident special preference point licenses would drop to the non resident special bonus point pool. Only bonus points could be purchased during the post draw point purchase period. After three years all points would be bonus points and associated drawings would be on the bonus point system.
 
Strang,

I am not sure you understand the concept behind the bonus point system. There is no need for a split. Everybody would be in the same pool. The NR system is another issue.
 
I still highly favor the system that is in place. But if we want to look at some kind of "new fair" system, then we need to really look at the Nevada's Bonus Point system, that is as "fair" as any kind of point system can be, if we must go to such a thing. There is no splitting tags into different categories and the youth will still have an opportunity at the very start. Raise price of Resident tags a small percentage and then have the additional bonus point cost of $10 or $20. Just something to toss around if there is that many Wyoming Residents out there that want to change the system. I really would like to see a full blown survey of all wyoming resident hunters and see what the results would be, before anything goes to the Legislators again.

No doubt the NR system is another issue.
 
I believe doing nothing for draw odds is the same as casting a vote for preference points. We are getting closer every time this legislation is attempted. The last two attempts didn't make it out of committee. This time we were a couple votes away from having a crappy point system. We have to utilize this opportunity to come up with a way to improve odds!!!
I believe there is a drastic difference in opinions based on where Wyoming residents live. 80% of hunting within 80 miles of my zip code (82901) is LE quota. When emailing my inbox to encourage people to contact legislators in opposition of SF0085 I had several friends write angrily back to me stating they would be writing letters of support for 0085.
Every year the random draw increases frustration (at least in this community) and when people are frustrated they support horrible point systems.
We need to get a broad group of sportsman and meet with the goal of figuring out the best solution. I hate random and I hate preference. I've done the math and we can achieve a sizeable increase in improving odds without points. If a group of sportsmen representing the masses get together and come up with a preference point solution I guess I would accept that solution. I'm confident that a group of passionate and informed sportsmen could come up with some ideas to actually improve odds.
If we don't we'll have preference points within this decade
 
I think a lot of the people who support a PP system don't really understand the concept. It will become a one and done deal. Many people think that if there are 1 in 10 odds that you will be guarnateed a tag and the hunting will be great. The problem is that once thaey draw their tag they will relize they have no chance at the tag for at least another 10 years.

I like the current system. If it needs to change (and I do agree with feduptwo) that change is comming then I would like a Nevada system. Its simple and gives more chances to the people who haven't draw.

I had another idea...

The third option is a system wherein the residents put in for the draws. If they don't draw their limited entry tag then they are given a point. They can hold onto this point and have more chances the next year or they can trun in their point for a general tag. This would give the people who want the PP a chance to build their precious points and would allow those who want to hunt the opertunity to hunt. I believe the other benifit is that the general units would get better (fewer people).

The simple problem is that there are more people than tags. The only way to fix this is to issue more tags or reduce the applicants.

I like the system we have in Wyoming. I think the people who are wanting a PP system don't relize how goosd we have it. So to make a long story short...Keep the current system ( I admit I think that is not going to happen), go to a Nevada System or the third system I just proposed.
 
I know this will piss off a few, but they should cut the NR tag numbers and raise the resident tag prices. I don't like having to to pay more,however if that is what it takes I'm fine with it. Cutting NR tags would improve the resident draw odds a little. I apply for multiple states and pay their prices. Why can't the state supplement the GnF? They sure take care of the WHP.
 
Doesn't piss me off

Utah= <10% tags go to non residents
Nevada <10% tags go to non residents
Arizona <10% tags go to non residents
Newmexico <7% of the tags go to non residents
Co and Wy allow much larger percentages of tags to go to non residents. WY uses the money to subsidize cheap permits for residents.

I don't need a subsidy I'll pay what my permit is worth. I would like to see a westeren state agreement that dictates all states give the same amount of permits to non residents. 10% 20% I don't care it just ticks me off that the trend seems to be less NR permits by percentage except in wy .
 
That is a crazy idea.

I called the WY G&F and told them how they can simply raise $1-2 million dollars more, we will see if they listen to a stupid NR.
 
>Doesn't piss me off
>
>Utah= <10% tags go to non
>residents
>Nevada <10% tags go to non
>residents
>Arizona <10% tags go to non
>residents
>Newmexico <7% of the tags go
>to non residents
>Co and Wy allow much larger
>percentages of tags to go
>to non residents. WY
>uses the money to subsidize
>cheap permits for residents.
>
>I don't need a subsidy I'll
>pay what my permit is
>worth. I would like
>to see a westeren state
>agreement that dictates all
>states give the same amount
>of permits to non residents.
> 10% 20% I don't
>care it just ticks me
>off that the trend seems
>to be less NR permits
>by percentage except in wy
>.

well then, write wyoming game and fish a check for what your permit is worth.
 
Bern expresses the "welfare mentaility" of many wyoming residents at least as it relates to license fee increases. I will be more happy to pay more for the said permit when that amount is defined; i.e. the increase that is needed to make up for the 15% cut in nonresident tag numbers to bring us inline with the rest of the western states.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-13 AT 06:02AM (MST)[p]>Bern expresses the "welfare mentaility" of
>many wyoming residents at least
>as it relates to license
>fee increases. I will be
>more happy to pay more
>for the said permit when
>that amount is defined; i.e.
>the increase that is needed
>to make up for the
>15% cut in nonresident tag
>numbers to bring us inline
>with the rest of the
>western states.

fedup "you" are the one expressing the welfare mentality,i simply stated write a check
 
I'll agree 100% the G&F needs to cut non rezi tags to 10% like the rest of the western states on everything. If you figured what that amount of non rezi revenue is and added it into the cost of a resident license it would be nothing spread over the the 90% of the resident LQ and general tags. They also need to do like Colorado does in some of their high demand areas for mountain goat, sheep etc., and just not give out any non rezi tags. Personally I favor a system like Nevada or a waiting period say of three years if you draw an LQ first choice tag. You could still hunt general tags and put in for 2nd & 3rd choices the following years. Most areas would see improved draw odds and no one could whine the kiddies don't get to hunt. On sheep and moose, I'd kick the waiting period up to 10 years. For high demand elk, deer and antelope areas, I'd have increased fee's like New Mexico. The G&F is facing a money crunch, this would help...
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-13 AT 09:45AM (MST)[p]Triple_BB, I completely agree with you on the NR tags being reduced, most all western states are 10% of allocated tags go to NR (I for one want the NR to have the privilege to hunt this state, but we should also be consistent with all other western states as far as tag allocation). And absolutely raise our tags in cost and then some, with a Nevada bonus point system to gain some extra cash for GnF, if we must. Plus us "whiners" who want kids to hunt, it will give them a chance to draw a LQ tag, unlike they would with the PP.

Now the NR has the 20% of tags, so it is what it is there and well deserved for the cost they pay.
 
Guys here is the math
8 res tags @38$= 304$
2 non res tags @277$=554$
total 858$
drop non res tags to 10%
1 non rse tag = $277
9 res tags @$64=581$
total $858
That is not including the special lic fee prices. Unless I have errored resident tag fees would have to more than double to make for 10% decrease in non resident tag allocation. Try this formule with non res spec elk lic @ $1057 and it gets scary real fast. That's not to mention app and poiny fees. Do you guys really want to pay that freight? A family of fopur would be paying almost $300. just for antalope tags
 
I see you doubled the resident prices, but left the non-resident tags the same price. Not very accurate then is it. Just saying.
 
I dont think the NR allocation for elk or antelope should be lowered.

With deer, I only think it should be if we go to statewide LQ for mule deer.

Then I believe that Residents should get 90% of the available deer tags 10% to NR's.

I also believe that exact thing will happen when/if mule deer go LQ only. Residents should get priority over NR's and I can promise if general mule deer tags are gone...I'll be the first person to lead the charge to go to a 90-10 split.

I also think it wont be long and Residents will be asking for 90-10 split on sheep, moose, goat, bison. Probably should already be that way now.
 
I doubled the res fees as an example of what it would take to arrive at the same revenue
 
Buzz I agree! I just thought some of the post implying the tags would only go up a "few bucks" needed some clarification. Some folks dont realize how much revenue non res tags generate to Game and Fish
 
83123......leave the system as is.....you don't like it...move to Wyoming and become a resident....
 
I've lived in Wyoming 15 years now and wouldn't trade the hunting Iv'e did for anywhere else in the world...
 
It is crazy because you would need to triple the price of resident tags to make up for that revenue lost from the non-residents. That is fine and dandy by me, but you need to convince a majority of the hunters that tripling their price of a tag is worth getting that extra 10% of the tags (probably not worth it). While you are at it, you might want to look at more than just tag prices and look at actual revenue that is brought into the state as some sort of multiplier effect.

Right now, non-residents are fitting the bill, if you reduce their tags (you lose revenue there), but also you will lose interest in paying for their points as they are not worth as much...and you lose their other $1,000 that was brought into the state.

I don't have a problem with it as a non-resident, but when the G&F is trying all kinds of things to raise money, this seems to be going in the opposite direction.
 

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