Leupold vx3 w/ CDS
- Thread starter lchcguide
- Start date
pwrlineman
Member
- Messages
- 97
I've been watching your post with interest since I just purchased the same scope in the long range model. It came with two free CDS dials and I look forward to trying it out. I am a little disappointed in the low light performance at higher magnification and wonder if I should have purchased the vxr model. I hate to trade off the higher magnification(4.5-14) and side focus for the vxr(4-12), but wonder if I would be happier with the illuminated reticle. Leupold custom shop will add an illuminated reticle for 300.0 dollars but I have already spent more than I wanted too. I'll probably keep the scope , but I am entertaining the idea of trading it for the vortex viper PST. The viper PST is is another 130.0 plus 100.0 for each custom dial.
The VX-R model will not be brighter. It should have inferior optics to the VX-3. The VX-R is a very cool scope though, I have on and love it. I don't have anything with the CDS knob, but I have several VX-3's with normal target turrets, and 2 with Mark 4 turrets and they are accurate and repeatable to dial with. The mechanism inside your scope is the same these just have a different shape knob on top to grab, so you should expect the same level of precision in the click values.
If you get it set up right with accurate drop data it will work great and you will be able to make 600 yard shots with ease.
The trick is to do a lot of shooting and verifying and confirming data PRIOR to ordering your custom knob. And be picky! Its easy to shoot a group that is 4" low at 600 yards and not even really notice or care, because they all fell within the vital of a mule deer. Find the middle of your group and compare that spot with your point of aim and be picky.
I have several knobs that aren't quite perfect...and its my fault for rushing into buying them.
Danny
If you get it set up right with accurate drop data it will work great and you will be able to make 600 yard shots with ease.
The trick is to do a lot of shooting and verifying and confirming data PRIOR to ordering your custom knob. And be picky! Its easy to shoot a group that is 4" low at 600 yards and not even really notice or care, because they all fell within the vital of a mule deer. Find the middle of your group and compare that spot with your point of aim and be picky.
I have several knobs that aren't quite perfect...and its my fault for rushing into buying them.
Danny
highcountryhays
Active Member
- Messages
- 129
I put one on my 270 before last season. I love it. Killed my best buck in 30 years, a 190 typical. Shot him in his bed at 316 yards. I just dialed it on the scope, held right on and smoked him. It gave me a lot more confidence knowing I did not have to mentally calculate holdover. I was able to concentrate on bullet placement on a difficult shot. The buck was bedded underneath a big juniper tree and there was a small opening to shoot through.
Before the hunt I was only able to shoot out to 400 yards, but the dial seemed right on.
Before the hunt I was only able to shoot out to 400 yards, but the dial seemed right on.
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,337
I have that scope, but and I sent them my rifle data, but the clicks are off on the dial they sent me on the higher end, so I have had to make some adjustments of my own. I haven't yet called to see if they can custom build a dial to my own click data, but that is the next step for me. In the mean time a few vinyl numbers and clear shoe polish has fixed my current dial.
>I have that scope, but and
>I sent them my rifle
>data, but the clicks are
>off on the dial they
>sent me on the higher
>end, so I have had
>to make some adjustments of
>my own. I haven't
>yet called to see if
>they can custom build a
>dial to my own click
>data, but that is the
>next step for me.
>In the mean time a
>few vinyl numbers and clear
>shoe polish has fixed my
>current dial.
Leupold should be able to make you a dial with any data you provide them. Most trajectories don't match what the ballistic program provides. Field data should be used to confirm prior to ordering your knobs. Now that you know exactly what to dial you should be able to tweak a ballistics program to match what you are seeing and have leupold make you a perfect knob. Most of those have been coming with 2 free knobs so go ahead and order another one! you will be much happier with one that is perfect.
>I sent them my rifle
>data, but the clicks are
>off on the dial they
>sent me on the higher
>end, so I have had
>to make some adjustments of
>my own. I haven't
>yet called to see if
>they can custom build a
>dial to my own click
>data, but that is the
>next step for me.
>In the mean time a
>few vinyl numbers and clear
>shoe polish has fixed my
>current dial.
Leupold should be able to make you a dial with any data you provide them. Most trajectories don't match what the ballistic program provides. Field data should be used to confirm prior to ordering your knobs. Now that you know exactly what to dial you should be able to tweak a ballistics program to match what you are seeing and have leupold make you a perfect knob. Most of those have been coming with 2 free knobs so go ahead and order another one! you will be much happier with one that is perfect.
>
>You can get the CDS with
>MOA on the turrets. Then
>just figure out your "come
>ups" (dial settings) by ACTUALLY
>shooting YOUR gun and YOUR
>loads at various distances.
Thats how the knob comes, but then you can have leupold make you a knob to fit your actual field data so that you don't have to have a chart.
Charts are a pain and really slow. I would definately recommend creating the knob with yardage numbers
>You can get the CDS with
>MOA on the turrets. Then
>just figure out your "come
>ups" (dial settings) by ACTUALLY
>shooting YOUR gun and YOUR
>loads at various distances.
Thats how the knob comes, but then you can have leupold make you a knob to fit your actual field data so that you don't have to have a chart.
Charts are a pain and really slow. I would definately recommend creating the knob with yardage numbers
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,357
LAST EDITED ON May-10-12 AT 05:08PM (MST)[p]LCHC- Plenty of good info given already. Here is what I would do:
1- Develop the handload you want with your bullet of choice and accuracy acceptable to you.
2- Chronograph 10 shots at least and gather you info- SD,ES and velocity.
3- Run those numbers through a ballistics program and figure your drops out to as far as you want to shoot.
4- From a rock steady bench or shooting position shoot groups out to your chosen distance and record the drop or how many clicks(MOA) it takes to be dead on at said range. Record all this data. Once you have gathered that you can use a ballistics program and tweak the BC of the bullet to match your field data. Dont forget to input the altitude and temp you are shooting at into the program. Also measure your scope to bore height and enter that.
5- Provide your new gathered info to leupold and have them cut your CDS dial. Once you get the dial get out and shoot to verify it.
Just curious what bullet are you running in your 257? I just got my 257wby back from the gunsmith and have been having great results with 115gr Nosler ballistic tips and IMR7828@ 3330 avg speed.
1- Develop the handload you want with your bullet of choice and accuracy acceptable to you.
2- Chronograph 10 shots at least and gather you info- SD,ES and velocity.
3- Run those numbers through a ballistics program and figure your drops out to as far as you want to shoot.
4- From a rock steady bench or shooting position shoot groups out to your chosen distance and record the drop or how many clicks(MOA) it takes to be dead on at said range. Record all this data. Once you have gathered that you can use a ballistics program and tweak the BC of the bullet to match your field data. Dont forget to input the altitude and temp you are shooting at into the program. Also measure your scope to bore height and enter that.
5- Provide your new gathered info to leupold and have them cut your CDS dial. Once you get the dial get out and shoot to verify it.
Just curious what bullet are you running in your 257? I just got my 257wby back from the gunsmith and have been having great results with 115gr Nosler ballistic tips and IMR7828@ 3330 avg speed.
BPKHunter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,749
I will second the concerns with the chart. I was in the middle of a 1 hour crawling stalk on my 188 buck this year when I realized in lost my chart. The closest I could crawl was 575. With lots of practice I was confident in the shot, but had not chart. What was lucky is that I have the Vortex with both moa dials, but also with the BDC reticle, so I just held on the right line, and squeezed. DOA. Dialed for my cow hunt at 400 yards and DOA.
>Charts might seem to be a
>pain and too slow to
>some, but when you really
>stretch the distance, MOA and
>custom drop charts are better
>than dial-a-yardage. Plus, if you
>switch loads, the dial still
>works. mtmuley
Your dial can be custom so that it IS your chart though...but yes, don't change anything. The only problem I see is that if I go to sea level, Im screwed!
Also one revolution on the dial is only going to be good to about 700yards (+/-100 depending on cartridge), and this seems to be a good area to limit oneself anyway. Beyond that to have a custom dial you need a bigger dial such as target turrets or M1 knobs so you can get more rows of numbers.
For some reason when in the field it has been really difficult for me to do the math for a 670 yard shot when I have data for 600 yards and 700 yards.
Say 9.6 MOA for 600 yards and 12.1 MOA for 700 yards.
12.1-9.6= 2.5MOA difference
Now 70% of 2.5 is...? now add that back to 9.6...uh #####...start all over.
One answer of course is get a 3 page long chart in 5 or 10 yard increments.
In contrast its really easy to dial to the correct spot when the chart is on the knob.
>pain and too slow to
>some, but when you really
>stretch the distance, MOA and
>custom drop charts are better
>than dial-a-yardage. Plus, if you
>switch loads, the dial still
>works. mtmuley
Your dial can be custom so that it IS your chart though...but yes, don't change anything. The only problem I see is that if I go to sea level, Im screwed!
Also one revolution on the dial is only going to be good to about 700yards (+/-100 depending on cartridge), and this seems to be a good area to limit oneself anyway. Beyond that to have a custom dial you need a bigger dial such as target turrets or M1 knobs so you can get more rows of numbers.
For some reason when in the field it has been really difficult for me to do the math for a 670 yard shot when I have data for 600 yards and 700 yards.
Say 9.6 MOA for 600 yards and 12.1 MOA for 700 yards.
12.1-9.6= 2.5MOA difference
Now 70% of 2.5 is...? now add that back to 9.6...uh #####...start all over.
One answer of course is get a 3 page long chart in 5 or 10 yard increments.
In contrast its really easy to dial to the correct spot when the chart is on the knob.
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,357
Im with mtmuley on this. My charts are mostly in 50 yard increments though. Its very easy to figure moa to dial quickly. I try to spend more time shooting and learning to read and dope the wind. Drop is the easy part of shooting long range.
LAST EDITED ON May-16-12 AT 05:40AM (MST)[p]Cahunter805 is dead on. I have purchased 3 custom turrets and none have yardage as its always changing. To make accurate long range hits you need to know the density altitude for your exact elevation and temp. It changes and will change and can change through the day, so if you needed 23 MOA come up at 08:00 in the morning, you may need more or less by 11:00 when it gets warmer or colder.
Make sure the elevation where you plan to hunt is close to your CDS. You may be on at 500' ASL then when you climb to 8000' and try to aim using the same dope for a 600 yard shot, you will miss. It's not the CDS's fault for the miss. Just sayin.
Reading the wind is the tricky part. Elevation is easy with today's rangefinders. The Vectronix Terrapin will give you accurate readings out to 2400 yards. Just dial in the drop and guess the wind.
The JBM drop charts are great. I use the Shooter app on my Droid for hunting. It is accurate and has allowed me to make 1st round hits out to 1500 yards. The program is only as good as the data that is input. Real world velocity numbers, density altitude, sight height, are all critical numbers. The closer to exact you are, the better the output, and the higher the percentage of 1st round hit you are.
Make sure the elevation where you plan to hunt is close to your CDS. You may be on at 500' ASL then when you climb to 8000' and try to aim using the same dope for a 600 yard shot, you will miss. It's not the CDS's fault for the miss. Just sayin.
Reading the wind is the tricky part. Elevation is easy with today's rangefinders. The Vectronix Terrapin will give you accurate readings out to 2400 yards. Just dial in the drop and guess the wind.
The JBM drop charts are great. I use the Shooter app on my Droid for hunting. It is accurate and has allowed me to make 1st round hits out to 1500 yards. The program is only as good as the data that is input. Real world velocity numbers, density altitude, sight height, are all critical numbers. The closer to exact you are, the better the output, and the higher the percentage of 1st round hit you are.
You will never see conditions change enough from 8:00AM to noon on the same day to affect a shot at 600 or 700 yards....Nor can I climb enough elevation in that amount of time to affect things. My turrets are for 6500 feet and the margin of error is miniscule from 4500-8500 feet. Run charts...see for yourself.
And if it really did matter that the temp warmed up 30 degrees and you climbed 500 ft of elevation, how many frickin charts do you have taped to your gun?
And if it really did matter that the temp warmed up 30 degrees and you climbed 500 ft of elevation, how many frickin charts do you have taped to your gun?
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,357
>You will never see conditions change
>enough from 8:00AM to noon
>on the same day to
>affect a shot at 600
>or 700 yards....Nor can I
>climb enough elevation in that
>amount of time to affect
>things. My turrets are
>for 6500 feet and the
>margin of error is miniscule
>from 4500-8500 feet. Run
>charts...see for yourself.
Dang- Just curious How do you adjust for wind at say 600 or 700 yards? Conditions can change in a few minutes where I hunt. I will agree that with a properly setup CDS dial elevation is pretty easy for the 1 bullet your dial is for.
Just curious what rifle setup you are shooting?
>enough from 8:00AM to noon
>on the same day to
>affect a shot at 600
>or 700 yards....Nor can I
>climb enough elevation in that
>amount of time to affect
>things. My turrets are
>for 6500 feet and the
>margin of error is miniscule
>from 4500-8500 feet. Run
>charts...see for yourself.
Dang- Just curious How do you adjust for wind at say 600 or 700 yards? Conditions can change in a few minutes where I hunt. I will agree that with a properly setup CDS dial elevation is pretty easy for the 1 bullet your dial is for.
Just curious what rifle setup you are shooting?
OK, Let's put it this way. The yardage dials are perfect for out to 600 yards or so, and for those don't want to put in the time to fully understand MOA and how to use a dial marked that way. dang, I don't need a bunch of charts. Works the same way as your yardage dial, only MOA. Difference is, I can hunt deer and elk with one load, then switch to a totally different bullet and load for antelope in the same day and never switch dials. I like the flexibility. mtmuley
>You will never see conditions change
>enough from 8:00AM to noon
>on the same day to
>affect a shot at 600
>or 700 yards....Nor can I
>climb enough elevation in that
>amount of time to affect
>things. My turrets are
>for 6500 feet and the
>margin of error is miniscule
>from 4500-8500 feet. Run
>charts...see for yourself.
>
>And if it really did matter
>that the temp warmed up
>30 degrees and you climbed
>500 ft of elevation, how
>many frickin charts do you
>have taped to your gun?
>
Danny, I guess I am not as cool as you. Depending on the powder used, a 30?F change can mean a difference in velocity and need a 1 MOA change at 600 yards, which is enough for a miss. I don't have anything taped to my gun. I use the Shooter program. I dial in real data and use the dope. For a 700 yard shot, I have not been rushed and can take the time needed to connect.
>enough from 8:00AM to noon
>on the same day to
>affect a shot at 600
>or 700 yards....Nor can I
>climb enough elevation in that
>amount of time to affect
>things. My turrets are
>for 6500 feet and the
>margin of error is miniscule
>from 4500-8500 feet. Run
>charts...see for yourself.
>
>And if it really did matter
>that the temp warmed up
>30 degrees and you climbed
>500 ft of elevation, how
>many frickin charts do you
>have taped to your gun?
>
Danny, I guess I am not as cool as you. Depending on the powder used, a 30?F change can mean a difference in velocity and need a 1 MOA change at 600 yards, which is enough for a miss. I don't have anything taped to my gun. I use the Shooter program. I dial in real data and use the dope. For a 700 yard shot, I have not been rushed and can take the time needed to connect.
LAST EDITED ON May-17-12 AT 08:52AM (MST)[p]Sorry I was confrontationaly with my last post. I have been using MOA dials and have not created a custom dial yet (that is accurate). I rushed into a custom dial a year or two ago and it is not quite perfect so I have not been using it(or that gun). I really hate using the MOA dial in a hunting situation and can't wait until I get an accurate custom one. I guess that is my point. I will still need charts on what to add or subtract to my dial for differenced in angle/elevation etc., but 75% of my hunting won't require the use of those and thats not really needed till after 600. I have been thinking that 600-700 was the extreme range for this thread.
The day I have to start factoring in the temperatures affect on my velocity, I will quit...thats too much for me. For now I will use hodgdon extreme extruded and assume that that minimizes temperature variation.
I don't really have a problem with using MOA dials, but I think if your using MOA dials your not using a CDS knob.
I think if you buy a leupold CDS scope you should make a custom knob...or 6. The first 2 are free, and they are relatively cheap.
The day I have to start factoring in the temperatures affect on my velocity, I will quit...thats too much for me. For now I will use hodgdon extreme extruded and assume that that minimizes temperature variation.
I don't really have a problem with using MOA dials, but I think if your using MOA dials your not using a CDS knob.
I think if you buy a leupold CDS scope you should make a custom knob...or 6. The first 2 are free, and they are relatively cheap.
dang, MOA adjustments certainly aren't for everyone. I have a CDS dial on my scope marked in MOA. The reason I chose that route is like I said, flexibility. Personally, a quick glance at my drops after ranging (I have most committed to memory) and I'm good to go. I guess whatever works best for someone is the way to go. mtmuley
tx_packmule
Active Member
- Messages
- 805
I like the way they operate, but the ones I have lack a turret cover and I found out that those things will turn when you don't want them to. (EX: when sliding it down in a pack scabbard and not knowing if it turned on the way in or on the way out)
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