Lions VS Coyotes

[slamdunk]

Ok here's a good topic for discussion and or debate.

We all know the impact lions are having on our big game, especially the mule deer.

It's a fact that a lion will take one big game animal every 5-7 days on average.
This is a scary thought when you figure they estimate there to be aproximately 1500 cats in the state.

NOW....an under discussed problem we have in Utah is coyote damage.
Someone told me something i hadn't thought of before that is pretty scary....

So a lion takes a deer a week, but a pack of coyotes will devour a deer in just amatter of hours when they kill one, or find one that a lion has already killed, which will force a lion to take yet another deer to replace it.
Not too mention how many fawns they kill!

Any thoughts on this???
Or does anyone have any realistic "educated guesses" on the damage all our coyotes are doing to our deer?

My .204 is ready for action this winter!! ;-)

 

[gb22]

Winter before last, one of my customers who lives in Arbon Valley (ranching area south of Pocatello) "watched" all winter as the coyotes killed 25 of 25 deer in a small herd. It was rather deep snow, the deer were more-or-less trapped and it took two months, but he said all 25 were killed.

Yes, he shoots coyotes but there is a never-ending supply.



Within the shadows, go quietly.

 

[MortgageMan]

It's a pack of Lions that you need to be afraid of.....LMAO

Someone on here wrote a while back that their friend told them he saw a "pack of Lions". I still find that funny as heck.

 

[MrB]

Hey Doug, DFG here in Ca, estimates we now 7,000 lions in our great state. It grew from approx. 2,500 when a liberal judge a few years back decided he knew better than the Department of Fish and Game, so he outlawed hunting them. I see much more sign of lion kills. In the Spring the coyotes do take some fawns. Looking at the scat, I would say in my area the vast majority of their diet consists of rodents. I have been seeing about 1/3 of the dominate bucks killed by lions after the rut each year. If I had a choice which one to regulate the population on for deer numbers, hands down I would be hunting lions.

Thanks, Mike

 

[slamdunk]

MrB-
Thanks for sharing that tid bit of Cali info, which leads me to yet a NEW quetion for YOU.

All these fires the past couple years, what has THAT done for 7000 lions???

You don't dare leave your poodle outside at night do ya?? Lol

 

[nocalhonker]

My fire station is in the foothills at about 1800' we have heard a lion scream the last two nights!!! Nocalhonker

 

[slcbohntr]

Two years ago up in the Current creek area we had a count of 8 orphend fawns which to me seems a little high for one area we also counted 12 dogs and had found two seperate lion tracks. I can agree with that it would explane the large number of mommy less animals in that area

Good Luck and Great Memroies

 

[EdleBrock]

In an area North of Phx (20B by the freeway), there use to be a fairly large herd of Javelina and a smaller group of Muleys. About 5 years ago a female lion moved in and in two seasons all of both were gone. The last Javelina hunt it did up there was in 04', nothing but scat full of fur. They are legal year round in AZ though, I routinely buy the over the counter tag with the off chance I run across one when I'm out. I've never purposely hunted them.

>Someone on here wrote a while
>back that their friend told
>them he saw a "pack
>of Lions". I still find
>that funny as heck.

MortgageMan, Pack of Lions ? Too funny, I did run into a pack of Cougars out in Scottsdale once, they raise hell with the young bucks... lol...

 

[Avsman]

Its the liberals way of outlawing hunting, get the predator population so high that the big game animals dont stand a chance and then outlaw hunting, instead of allowing hunters to kill preadators, Its the way their minds work, They dont think about revenue loss or economic impact that hunting has they just dont want to see humans killing poor defenseless animals. And guess what they are winning, its time we fought back.

Lions in CA have almost cost the state their Desert sheep herds, CO no spring bear hunt and no trapping guess what theres bears running loose in town eating our dogs cats and childern, and now they are putting the wolves back on the Endangered Species list it makes me sick, If we as sportsmen and women dont do something now its only going to get worse.

 

[bobcatbess]

YOU FORGOT TO MENTION THE PORCUPINES PUNK!!!

WTF???

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[MrB]

slcbohntr,
you couldn't be more correct! A mountain lion will attack a doe with fawns and not touch the fawns even when they hang around their dead mother while the lion feeds. I witnessed this first hand in Nevada. The twins stood there within 50' of the lion until 2 coyotes came right to them as they kept bleeing for their mom. That is when I started lauching arrows at them. I'm sure they came back later and finished the job. 1 lion kill that day equaled 3 dead deer. Now when I see orphaned fawns woundering around, I can feel pretty sure I know what happened and what will happen to the fawns.

Slamdunk, the fires just make it easier for the lions to get the congrigated stressed deer. Also it just keeps pushing the younger cats closer to town and pets.
As far as your pets, keep them indoors if you live in rural areas. A friend of mine is a State Trapper and can't touch a lion even if it kills all your pets. If it kills your livestock, he has to trap it in a cage for relocation.

We are a very confused bunch out here.

Mike

 

[RELH]

In my area we still have a few old timer's that strongly believe in the three "S" solution to a lion problem. After several incidents of lions taking small pet dogs out of the front yard. A lion in the tree in a back yard and several other incidents that F&G could not handle, due to restrictions.
Those troublesome lions just up and disappeared for good. There has been several persons attacked in CA. and the animal lovers do not care, so it is up to the local resident to take care of the problem when it happens. I still say we should trap about 10 lions and dump them in the parks located in San Francisco and L.A. and let the PETA crowd contend with them. I wonder what they would say when their pet poodle, FiFi, is taken from them while walking the mut in the park.

RELH

Better yet, leave FiFi along and eat the damn PETA animal lover.

 

[nickman]

RELH.....PETA people don't believe in pets either......any kind.

The coyotes around here account for a hundred or so lost Angus calves every year, in spite of our best efforts to eliminate them. A full grown Angus cow would be more formidable than a doe, so I am sure fawns are also on the menu.

There are plenty to go around and we know for a fact that they are hard on the Tule elk newborns also.

Every mountain lion I see is about to attack me and I am in fear of my life. Some may be attacking me at 300 yards or so, probably circling around trying to get behind me, that's why they are runnin' so fast.....

.204 bullets, $14.99
5 gallons of gas, $25.00
5 or 6 coyotes turned inside out at 4000 fps...
Freakin' Priceless!!!

 

[Model_70_Guy]

The lion problem in CA is just that.. A real problem with no solution in sight. I sure would like to see a season on them again here in CA but I'm not very optimistic about that happening... ever.

 

[mountainstalker]

They come to Nevada where we stack em up. We are beginning to see more and more lions in western Nevada. Hunting them has actually been pretty good in recent years.

 

[AZStickman]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-23-08 AT 09:22AM (MST)[p]"They are legal year round in AZ though, I routinely buy the over the counter tag with the off chance I run across one when I'm out.

Edlebrock:
They changed the regs on this last year. Lion season is no longer year round. It is shut down during a few of the summer months now.The antis got this passed with the support of a few lion guides.... Go figure....... Terry

 

[EdleBrock]

Crap, you're right. I just checked the regs. Looks like it's still year round for select units, but closed June-Aug for the majority.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Jim

 

[sageadvice]

70 guy said; "The lion problem in CA is just that.. A real problem with no solution in sight."

I agree 100% but also would like to comment on the yotes. When i was about 20, there were no coyotes on the Mt Diablo range that our ranch was part of. I had seen them other places, but not anywhere near the home place that i hunted, trapped, fished, and knew so well. Finally one evening i spotted one, then a couple weeks later another. Within a 5 years, it was common to see several yotes in a evening hunt. The deer numbers dropped from a avg of seeing a 100 a hunt, to only 10-15. Over the time of about 10 years the yotes had reduced, matter of factly, the deer herd from healthy and everywhere to few and scattered.

Coyotes are a very real problem to deer herds. A healthy lion population is just more nails in the coffin, IMO.

Joey

 

[slamdunk]

Nickman said-

".204 bullets, $14.99
5 gallons of gas, $25.00
5 or 6 coyotes turned inside out at 4000 fps...
Freakin' Priceless!!!"


I LOVE IT!! ;-)

(but don't insult the .204, they are going 4225!!)

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

Come to NV you can shoot all the coyotes you want for just the price of gas. And get a Lion tag OTC.

 

[DMCHUNTER]

Ca. lion situation is an embaresment.

I would love to be sitting on the side of a hill and see another lion. It goes something like this SHHHH, Take a breath, squeeze, man that was a purrrrdyy site.

If ca. wanted to have responsible game mgmt we would have a season period. But the politicians and so called enviros do not care one bit about responsible game mgmt.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

I had to comment on the "pack of lions". I don't know how many it takes to make a "pack" but I saw 3 full grown cats together 3 years ago in a canyon where I saw a herd of 12 bulls the previous week. Needless to say, I didn't see another elk in that draw the rest of the hunt. I do have hound buddies that are pretty disgusted with the cat hunting in Utah. They say it's getting harder and harder to find a cat track, and these guys are great cat hunters. I'm not sure what that means. My personal opinion is the coyotes do more damage than the cats do.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com