losing hunting access to public lands

[creed]

There is a series of meetings that I am urging anyone that cares about hunting access to attend. If what is being proposed gets before Congress and is approved there is going to be huge pieces of units 44A, 42, 41, and 39 that will become wilderness or access restricted areas. And this is probably only the start of it.
hunter74 and myself attended one of these tonight. Please, if you care about hunting access in these areas I urge you strongly to let your voice be heard.

Here is a link to meeting times and places.
http://www.sonoranheritage.org/news/rel ... ation_plan

Another link to maps of proposed new wilderness and NCA areas.
http://www.sonoranheritage.org/our_campaign/maps

There is a need for ATV reform and some protection of our natural resources but IMO this proposal is going way to far at this time.
If we don't get involved now we'll wake up and wonder what happened.

 

[quest]

creed, looks like a land grab to me. What with the Solars panels some body got a agenda. When are the meeting?

quest

 

[creed]

Here are the remaining meetings times and places.

Thursday Nov 10th, 7-9 PM

Wickenburg Community Center

175 E. Swilling

Wickenburg, AZ 85390

Tuesday Nov 15th, 7-9 PM

Surprise Regional Chamber of Commerce

16126 N. Civic Center Plaza

Surprise, AZ 85374

Thursday Nov 17th, 7-9 PM

Buckeye Chamber of Commerce

508 E. Monroe Ave.

Buckeye, AZ 85326

 

[quest]

I don't know if I can attend all have to look at my schedule. Are you going again and when?

quest

 

[creed]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-09-11 AT 01:57PM (MST)[p]I am going to try to make the Buckeye meeting.

A person on another website gave this link to the agenda of these people. It may be a conspiracy theory but after what I saw at the meeting last night this is exactly what is being proposed for nearly 3/4 million acres right outside of Phoenix. I will bet anything from comments made that this is only the start.

http://patriotsunion.ning.com/profiles/blogs/wildway-corridors-no-humans

 

[quest]

Hey thanks for the info. Its doesn't look good.

quest

 

[m_freeman]

does this mean no access or no vehicles?

 

[m_freeman]

they are locking up whole counties in N Ca right now, they call it a travel plan, heard stories of BLM SWAT teams in the Imperial Valley coming down on people too. I think they are protecting the smuggling routes and pot growers. Are they saying No access or just No vehicles?

 

[creed]

They want to shut it down to vehicular traffic, powerline easements, roads, mining, etc. and I was unclear of their stance on cattle allotments and grazing.

If what you are saying is going on then this whole thing is completely out of control. That is crazy!

 

[m_freeman]

it is, I have dome some reading, one of the first things Obummer did was set up a task force to study the impact of global warming on public lands and wildlife and create "mitigation plans" this is for *ALL* public lands. We haven't even seen this bowel movement yet. He also created study groups to identify sacred Indain sites and work with Indians on locking people out. This is very vague because the Indians can say that whole mountain range is sacred and they are! So this thing is kinda stalled right now. The two big monsters coming at us are the Indian sacred lands management plans and the global warming mitigation plans, this is in addition to the local treehugger conservation groups you see. In N CA 8 sheriffs had a big public meeting last week saying they will refuse to comply with enforcement because it will bust their counties, see if I can find the video. It's bad and it's going to get worse. I work around zoning dept in San Diego County the FEDS bribe the counties to create low density zoning the push really is to corral evryone into the cities they say so in certain terms in their plans ( reduce commutes etc.)

 

[m_freeman]

here is the video about the 8 sheriffs that will refuse to comply with Federal orders to lockout the public. Seriously bad news. There is a private property attorney speak at the end she is very good tells it likes it is. Ya really gotta wonder about protecting the smugglers and growers. here

 

[quest]

How do you stop these people? Its crazy!

quest

 

[m_freeman]

public exposure, people are fed nonsense in the media, it is creeping incrementalism. I 10 years it will be like Hawaii, check in with the local ranger in the to enter public lands and mandatory check out at dusk and documentation of firearms. This will all be done in the name of Sacred Indian Sites and Global Warming.

 

[desert30_06]

I guess they don't realize that some of these proposed areas are in Yuma County, and maybe they should have a meeting here as well. Also, do you think any of these idiots have ever been out to look at some of these areas. The Clanton Hills and Columbus Peak areas in paticular have roads and mines all over the place, and should not be considered for wilderness.

 

[creed]

They have the Belmonts down as proposed wilderness too. That area is scorched earth. Quad trails and lots of mining there too.

 

[Boskee]

Gee more wilderness areas and how far away do you think wolf reintroduction or predator protection could be? M freeman hit the nail on the head it's a well planned movement to eliminate the publics access to many of our lands and it's all being done w/o the publics input. Oh they ask for input then they go ahead and do it anyway. It's how the enviro 's work they have the power with these agencies being headed up by political appointees who impose their agenda on the people. We can thank Hillary and Bill for this type of action and Obamee is playing the same song.

Yet we keep putting them in office and couldn't get interested sportsmen to vote for legislation to protect hunting and fishing in AZ. Some of us tried in vain to tell you guys this stuff was coming and we were thought to be over zealous. So what do you boys still think? Is doing nothing improving your chances to hunt? After the defeat of 109 I threw in the towel like many others and maybe a dose of hard reality is exactly what it will take to awaken the sleeping giant.

My guess is that when they knock on your front door and ask for your guns then and only then will you suddenly realize that you should have gotten up off your azz and done something but at such time it will be way too late. They're taking the main reason for having your guns away ( hunting & access ) so you won't have a need to keep them yet we as a user group are too damn dumb to realize it. Well go ahead and keep voting them into office so they can continue to take your rights away under the guise of social reform and equality and more, yes much more government regulation in your life.

 

[sagebrush]

If I read it right, this must be approved by congress. We need to start a letter campaign to every member of congress to let them know we will campaign against their re-election if they vote to pass this bill. We should also solicit our out of state brothers to do the same. Congressmen will follow the feedback they get, especially if they know we will hold them accountable. Problem is, they hear from the well financed and organized enviro-wackjobs and not from the average constituent or outdoorsman. Look what the Tea Party activists were able to accomplish is just a couple of years. Congressmen have been sensitized by the Tea Party and we can use this to our benefit. We need to get started, now! I am going to the meeting tonight to be sure this suggestion is correct and I'll report back.

 

[m_freeman]

sheriffs take a stand

 

[sagebrush]

I just finished spending an hour and a half with the useful idiots of the Sonoran Desert Heritage. We have our work cut out for us. They said they are collecting input from the public before the proposal is written, but later slipped up and said the law has already been written and submitted to Rep. Franks and Rep. Grijalva for their review and approval before it gets formally submitted. There were about ten concerned citizens in attendance and none were supportive of the proposal. We were all politely listened to and will promptly be ignored. The Sonoran Desert Heritage looked at some maps and picked out as few roads as they possibly could and still be able to claim the public as not been denied access. They said they did extensive surveys in every area, but some of the sportsman in attendance pointed out roads that ended on the reference map actually coniued through to other roads and the proponents were totally unaware. This is a group of eco-elitists that think they know better than the individual as to how we should live our lives and how we should use our natural resources. They make no bones about their superior position in life.

The good news is this proposal must be supported by either Franks or Grijalva before it can be considered by congress. We need to get to these two legislators and let them know they will be held accountable by the voters if they conspire to ram this proposal down our throats.

Ben Alteneder from the Arizona Wildlife Federation was also in attendance. He told me AWF has no position on the proposal yet and he was there to gather input from sportsman to represent their interests. He then spent 30 minutes telling me why it was such a great proposal and why I should support it.

All the proponents were singing from the same hymn book. Arizonans are writing the law and they will tell the fed's how they will do business in our state. Yes, they are that naive. Several of us pointed out how well that worked in CA, NV and in the Kofas. The AZGFD will be required to fill out an application and prepare an EIS any time they want to haul water or repair an existing water catchment. Of course, no new catchments will be allowed since it would be a negative impact on the "wilderness experience". The proponents were aware of this minor inconvenience.

My take on their agenda is to put a five mile buffer around every mountain from Buckeye to the Colorado River and from Wickenburg to the Mexican border. This 750,000 acres is just the easiest to attack at this time. If you guys like hunting in the Cabeza Prieta then you will love their agenda. Hunting in 39, 41, 42, and 44 will be reduced to hiking 3 to 5 miles before you can reach a glassing spot. I'm sure they will be taking on the 40's in the future as well.

If you have any interest in defeating the Sonoran Desert Heritage proposal, I am willing to become the community organizer for the campaign. I can't do it all on my own so some people are going to have to step up. Let me know because time is of the essence.

 

[m_freeman]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-11 AT 10:21PM (MST)[p]sad to hear this, here in CA when they lock it up like that, after they make all the rules, then they start working on the roads leading up to the areas. They dream up all kinds of stuff, "no parking because of fire truck access". Another one is a private conservation group will by land the access roads cross then they throw up a gate. There are multiple ways to lock up the land and lock out hunters. They will buy surrounding lands and either turn it into a County Park or a preserve. What you are witnessing now is just the first half of the lock outs. There are thousands of acres of public lands we can't get into because of all the various tactics. BTW there is no such thing as the locals telling the FEDS how they want things done. It's like making a deal with the mafia once you are in, you are never out, and you will do what they want.

 

[creed]

hunter74 and myself are trying to inform anyone that we can to get involved in this. Awareness is our friend. My girlfriend posted this on her Facebook page and has invited the sportsmen and cattlemen that she is friends with to attend the Buckeye meeting.

I don't know if the Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club is aware (they probably are) but if they wanted to they can swing a heavy bat. They are very well organized and have a lot of clout when they want to flex their muscle. I have lost contact with the couple of members that I know there.

Anyhow, this has the potential to be serious.

 

[m_freeman]

Another thing that happens when they lock people out is the bogus access points. They'll say there is a road or two into an area. As mentioned earlier there are ways to block those roads and they will do it. Then what happens is the very few access points will become bottlenecks. You will have birdwatchers, tree huggers, animal lovers, hunters, hikers and everyone else all parking and entering at one spot, it's madness. This is really bad news because all the hunters in the lock out areas will want to go elswhere putting pressure in other areas. I feel for AZ I spend weeks looking over maps, talking to rangers, land owners and visiting County cartography trying to find legal access into public lands.

 

[creed]

Just wanted to give a quick update on the Buckeye meeting. My girlfriend created a Face Book event about this meeting and sent it out to her friends. It went viral and a fantastic crowd of pissed off hunters, ATV'ers, cattlemen and outdoors people turned out in really good numbers to let their voices be heard.

They may go ahead and get their agenda through Congress but there are a couple of politically connected people that attended and are dead set against this.
Maybe there is hope after all.

 

[m_freeman]

>Just wanted to give a quick
>update on the Buckeye meeting.
>My girlfriend created a Face
>Book event about this meeting
>and sent it out to
>her friends. It went viral
>and a fantastic crowd of
>pissed off hunters, ATV'ers, cattlemen
>and outdoors people turned out
>in really good numbers to
>let their voices be heard.
>
>
>They may go ahead and get
>their agenda through Congress but
>there are a couple of
>politically connected people that attended
>and are dead set against
>this.
>Maybe there is hope after all.
>


all you have to say is look what has happened to California, that should get everyone up in arms. BTW another thing they have done here in Southern CA is besides all the special interest groups that manipulate the lockouts, we have to deal with ant hunter rangers!. The NF area managers have the right to close roads, and guess what. Right before deer season a whole bunch of roads are closed for reasons ranging from dangerous road conditions to fire hazards. Yep roads supposed to be open, they close them anyway. Obama has much more planned.

 

[sagebrush]

I repeat, this proposal can be killed if we get to our members of the house of representatives.

This proposal must be sponsored by Trent Franks from the 2nd congressional district or Raul Grijalva from the 7th congressional district before it can go to the house.

If you live in one of those districts, let them know we will hold them accountable the next time they run for office.

 

[quest]

Creed its sound like something going in the right direction for once!. Please tell your girlfriend thanks.

quest

 

[Boskee]

Raul is one of the biggest supporters of enviro and antigun/hunting legislation in congress. He has sponsored many of these types of bills and works very hard on anti gun, anti hunting type legislation. One of his biggest contributors is the Center for Biological diversity and the Sierra Club & HSUS. Trent Franks is the better alternative and Raul will just smile and vote for this type legislation knowing his vote will stop you. My $.02

 

[m_freeman]

I keep replying to this thread because I have seen what the anti's have done here in CA. If there is any possibility of stopping their plans folks must do it. These management plans are sold to the public as one thing then they become something different later. As I mentioned these plans are just the first step in hardline lockouts.I'll summarize the obstacles I have encountered as a hunter trying to access *our* public lands to hunt upon. Preservation and conservation groups buying private lands surrounding public lands to landlock them. The purchase of private land the access roads cross then closing the gate. Groups buying lands near the access areas and forbidding parking. Groups buying BLM lands and doing all the above including donating the land as "Parks" (no hunting in any parks). Private subdivisions only allowing home owners in the subdivision access on their private roads. This is a big problem here in CA, seems like once people buy a house in the gated community they feel they own the public lands adjacent as well. Then the next thing to happen is the **NF and BLM Rangers get salted with antis**, they have the right to close any open roads, few realize this. Not all these Rangers are antis but it is a fact the CA DFG Commission has bonifide antis amongst them. Deer season comes along expect a lot of road closures in NF and BLM for reasons that can't stand up under scrutiny. Not to mention that here in CA all this is done in conjunction with an abundance of anti firearm legislation. So if you make the smallest of errors you can be slammed with some nasty firearms violations, the kind of violations that can cause you to lose your "unalienable" right. I have heard from local hunters that the BLM now has a SWAT type unit in the Imperial Valley that is stopping target shooting. There is another thing the FEDS do here in CA, they bribe the County Zoning to create regulations that promote "less commutes" to the rural areas. I just bought a piece of land out in Cochise County to move to for the very reasons previously mentioned. There are much better ways to conserve and protect our public lands than get in bed with the FEDS or the anti crowd. Please share my comments widely.