Making All Hunts In Oregon Draw only .
- Thread starter sworhntr
- Start date
Hunting_Oregon
Active Member
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- 150
I think I could accept it. The hunting pressure would be less in each unit and then the rifle tags application would go down tremendously because people would have to choose which weapon they wanted. but on the other hand I do not want that to happen.
"Life's tough... It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
"Life's tough... It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
O
OregonBighorn
Guest
I can't wait! Anything to help the deer herds.
"Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"
"Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"
O
Oregonbowhunter
Guest
I agree with making all areas a draw but only the ones that need it. I don't agree with making the West side a draw when rifle gets to hunt it as a general season for the most part. West side success is low and there is not a lot of pressure as compared to other places and other seasons. I don't agree with making places like Fort Rock or Silver lake units a draw, what's the need?
I say make archery units for elk a draw, the ones that need it, like the desolation, Northside, Murderers creek, etc. Issue half the tags as there are hunters hunting those units now. That way you get half the hunters and you can hunt every other year or more often if you're lucky. I believe if you do this the quality of a hunt that you have will go way up.
I say make archery units for elk a draw, the ones that need it, like the desolation, Northside, Murderers creek, etc. Issue half the tags as there are hunters hunting those units now. That way you get half the hunters and you can hunt every other year or more often if you're lucky. I believe if you do this the quality of a hunt that you have will go way up.
E
eobowhntr
Guest
I think its a great idea, especially for archery. Would eliminate the people who buy bows right before the season, dont become efficient using them, then trudge around blowing elk calls they dont know how to use. I dont see any bad things that could come of it, other than the occasional angry person.
robinsg61le
Active Member
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- 198
Choose your poison boyz. It's just not fair that bow hunters get to rack up rifle points doing what they love year after year, while rifle hunters wait 3-20 years for any kind of a DECENT tag.
Most guys I know that are bow hunters still put in for rifle points so they can have a dream hunt once or twice in a lifetime, even if the poor bastards are stuck using a measly old rifle.
In talking with a local F&G guy, he explained that a large number of the guys that have 10+ points are actually bow hunters by nature... So really, they are the ones throwing off the odds for true rifle hunters.
Most guys I know that are bow hunters still put in for rifle points so they can have a dream hunt once or twice in a lifetime, even if the poor bastards are stuck using a measly old rifle.
In talking with a local F&G guy, he explained that a large number of the guys that have 10+ points are actually bow hunters by nature... So really, they are the ones throwing off the odds for true rifle hunters.
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Oregonbowhunter
Guest
That is the most ridiculous set of statements I've heard in a while. The ones you speak of are probably rifle hunters who cross over to bowhunting so they can hunt every year and still put in for rifle tags. You do realize that there are just as many quality archery elk hunts as there are rifle hunts? You do know that archers can put in for Wenaha, Walla Walla, Mt. Emily, Starkey experimental forest (all archery hunts) right?
The problem is cross overs from rifle to archery. Dedicated archers put in for archery hunts ding bat.
The problem is cross overs from rifle to archery. Dedicated archers put in for archery hunts ding bat.
why worry about it now, in 10 years the lions and wolves and bears are going to have em all ate anyway.
fawn and calf recruitment at less than 10 percent and the wolves are just now coming, lions all over the place in the broad daylight. seeing 10-20 bears a day feeding out in the open.
we need drastic predator control in eastern oregon if you ever want to see quality-trophy hunting again
fawn and calf recruitment at less than 10 percent and the wolves are just now coming, lions all over the place in the broad daylight. seeing 10-20 bears a day feeding out in the open.
we need drastic predator control in eastern oregon if you ever want to see quality-trophy hunting again
>why worry about it now, in
>10 years the lions and
>wolves and bears are going
>to have em all ate
>anyway.
>
>fawn and calf recruitment at less
>than 10 percent and the
>wolves are just now coming,
>lions all over the place
>in the broad daylight. seeing
>10-20 bears a day feeding
>out in the open.
>
>we need drastic predator control in
>eastern oregon if you ever
>want to see quality-trophy hunting
>again
Then what's stopping people from taking matters into own hands?
>10 years the lions and
>wolves and bears are going
>to have em all ate
>anyway.
>
>fawn and calf recruitment at less
>than 10 percent and the
>wolves are just now coming,
>lions all over the place
>in the broad daylight. seeing
>10-20 bears a day feeding
>out in the open.
>
>we need drastic predator control in
>eastern oregon if you ever
>want to see quality-trophy hunting
>again
Then what's stopping people from taking matters into own hands?
robinsg61le
Active Member
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- 198
Oregonbowhunter: Sorry for posting my opinion here before checking with someone like you who knows everyting. And, congratulations on your use of name calling as tactic to get your point accross. I'm sure you're a class act in real life too.
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OregonBighorn
Guest
Grab the popcorn! It's going to be Nascar vs Killerbee round two.
"Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"
"Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"
O
Oregonbowhunter
Guest
Stating an opinion is one thing but running your mouth and writing false statements is another. As far as name calling, I didn't need to use it to get my point across. I would hope that accurate statements would do that. I just felt like saying it, it's what I would say to anyone that makes a bunch of boneheaded, uneducated statements. Next time, know what you're talking about before you post and place blame on a group of people.
Furthermore, I don't care if you think I'm a class act or not. You think you know me from one post on the internet? Go ahead and try to insult me, I could care less of what some guy on the internet thinks of me.
Furthermore, I don't care if you think I'm a class act or not. You think you know me from one post on the internet? Go ahead and try to insult me, I could care less of what some guy on the internet thinks of me.
dfowler08x
Active Member
- Messages
- 118
U know its pretty fun to read all of these posts from bowhunters insulting rifle hunters and vice versa. This is what all the anti hunting groups want. We should all be sticking together. I love to bow hunt. My father likes to rifle hunt. We take turns each year deciding what we are going to do for that particular year, and of course we put in for Draw tags. If we dont draw, One of use decides what we are going to do. So if you see my truck driving around the woods with a Bowtech sticker on the window and I get out with a rifle hopefully no one pops my tires or something. Sheesh.... I just know oregon has to do something about our Big game animal numbers or there isnt goin to be any animals to hunt in oregon. If It comes down to making everything a draw then so be it.
Dave
Dave
If you guys think going to 100% draw will fix anything, your dreaming.
Ochoco Bow went to draw and they give out 800 freakin tags.
The unit I Elk hunt in NM gives out 400 Archery tags. Twice as many as any other Archery unit down there.
Almost every unit, rifle or bow, has less than 200 tags.
ODFW will simply go to a draw with the same number of tags.
From ScoutDog5's post in the Gen section:
////
" Wow, a quick summary of the numbers for mule deer:
Colorado mule deer herd numbers............500,000
Colorado mule deer buck ratio..............30 bucks/100 does
All Colorado tags are limited entry, no over the counter tags.
Colorado proposed tags:
Archery buck................2,213
Archery either sex........10,000
Muzzleloader buck...........5,374
Muzzleloader antlerless.....1,270
Rifle both buck and antlerless.......60,000
Oregon mule deer numbers.................225,000
Oregon mule deer buck ratio..............12-15 bucks/100 does
Oregon Proposed tags:
Archery: mostly over the counter.....17,000 mule deer hunters in 2008.
Nuzzleloader: very few tags on limited entry
Rifle buck, all limited entry...........59,500
Rifle antlerless.........................1,200
So, Oregon, with less than half as many mule deer, and 25% of the bucks, will issue more tags than Colorado.
Any more questions about why mule deer hunting in Oregon SUCKS?
Scoutdog"
/////////
Ochoco Bow went to draw and they give out 800 freakin tags.
The unit I Elk hunt in NM gives out 400 Archery tags. Twice as many as any other Archery unit down there.
Almost every unit, rifle or bow, has less than 200 tags.
ODFW will simply go to a draw with the same number of tags.
From ScoutDog5's post in the Gen section:
////
" Wow, a quick summary of the numbers for mule deer:
Colorado mule deer herd numbers............500,000
Colorado mule deer buck ratio..............30 bucks/100 does
All Colorado tags are limited entry, no over the counter tags.
Colorado proposed tags:
Archery buck................2,213
Archery either sex........10,000
Muzzleloader buck...........5,374
Muzzleloader antlerless.....1,270
Rifle both buck and antlerless.......60,000
Oregon mule deer numbers.................225,000
Oregon mule deer buck ratio..............12-15 bucks/100 does
Oregon Proposed tags:
Archery: mostly over the counter.....17,000 mule deer hunters in 2008.
Nuzzleloader: very few tags on limited entry
Rifle buck, all limited entry...........59,500
Rifle antlerless.........................1,200
So, Oregon, with less than half as many mule deer, and 25% of the bucks, will issue more tags than Colorado.
Any more questions about why mule deer hunting in Oregon SUCKS?
Scoutdog"
/////////
robinsg61le
Active Member
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Oregonbowhunter: Congratulations, again, on being the only one with the "correct" opinion. I see a great deal of validity in what you have to say... It makes sense to me. It could be much more powerful if presented without the verbal aggression.
Thanks to everyone else who has posted some great thoughts on this topic. Many thought provoking ideas... Anyone think there is enough momentum to carry any of these ideas within the state legislature?
Thanks to everyone else who has posted some great thoughts on this topic. Many thought provoking ideas... Anyone think there is enough momentum to carry any of these ideas within the state legislature?
robinsg61le
Active Member
- Messages
- 198
I agree. Does the game commision and the legislature have a cooperative relationship or are they more often at odds?
S
scoutdog5
Guest
Given that almost 400,000 LE applications are recieved each year, there is little doubt all of the following statements are true:
1. Hunters who are primarily rifle hunters go bow hunting when they don't draw a rifle permit.
2. Hunters who are primarily bow hunters are building points that they will use to draw a rifle tag.
3. Some hunters are equal opportunity hunters, and switch between bow and rifle depending on species, season, etc.
As to how many are in each of these categories, I have no clue.
As to the Ochoco bow tags going limited entry, the tag numbers were cut in half from the number of hunters who were there the previous year of the over-the-counter tags. I think the largest numbers of bow elk hunters on the Ochoco unit under over-the-counter tags was a little over 2,000 several years ago, so there has been a significant drop.
My opinion is that every big game tag in Eastern Oregon needs to be part of the limited entry system, bears and cougar excepted. Since we obviously can't control predation, poaching, etc. it is imperative we control legal harvest, and the only way to do that is with a limited entry tag system.
I am working on a detailed comparison between Colorado and Oregon, which I will post in the next few days. Pretty amazing stuff.
Scoutdog
1. Hunters who are primarily rifle hunters go bow hunting when they don't draw a rifle permit.
2. Hunters who are primarily bow hunters are building points that they will use to draw a rifle tag.
3. Some hunters are equal opportunity hunters, and switch between bow and rifle depending on species, season, etc.
As to how many are in each of these categories, I have no clue.
As to the Ochoco bow tags going limited entry, the tag numbers were cut in half from the number of hunters who were there the previous year of the over-the-counter tags. I think the largest numbers of bow elk hunters on the Ochoco unit under over-the-counter tags was a little over 2,000 several years ago, so there has been a significant drop.
My opinion is that every big game tag in Eastern Oregon needs to be part of the limited entry system, bears and cougar excepted. Since we obviously can't control predation, poaching, etc. it is imperative we control legal harvest, and the only way to do that is with a limited entry tag system.
I am working on a detailed comparison between Colorado and Oregon, which I will post in the next few days. Pretty amazing stuff.
Scoutdog
O
Oregonbowhunter
Guest
Does anyone think that it could be possible to come to a compromise of quality and quantity? I know everyone has a different definition of the two but I think it's a little extreme to limit everything to the point to where no one gets to hunt but every four years just so a few can have a crack at a 350+ bull.
Is there anyone here that has hunted the Ochoco's before and after the draw? What was your experience? Are you happy with the alotted tag amount?
Is there anyone here that has hunted the Ochoco's before and after the draw? What was your experience? Are you happy with the alotted tag amount?
Scrillznac
Active Member
- Messages
- 361
For archery hunting I don't think they should make each and every Eastern Oregon unit a draw unit but rather 3-4 larger "regions" that you would have to put in for. It's actually great for archery hunting with the current system but would help manage specific units a little better with making it a draw.
D
Donnie1030
Guest
Seem's like if every body would quit bashing each other and put all that energy in too making hunting better for every body,bow hunters or rifle hunters we could get something done,we are all hunters, and if we don't do something about it the government might try to take it away from us one day!!! Thats some thing to worry about guy's.........Lets work together not against each other!!!
S
scoutdog5
Guest
Some Ochoco history:
For many years, til around 1980 as I recall, ODFW did not want elk on the Ochoco unit. The season was long, over the counter, for any elk. Because of this, the elk herds grew very, very slowly, but they did grow. Success rates weren't real high, but there were a few very large bulls taken each year.
ODFW finally saw the light, and went to bull only around 1980. Unlimited over the counter tags for both first and 2nd season. Because there were not a lot of elk, there were not a lot of hunters when the switch was made, and the the herd population took off. Hunting got better and better throughout the 80's, with nice range size of bulls, and increasing herds. Can't remember when it went limited entry, sometime in the late 80's I think. From that point on, applications took off, and ODFW raised tag numbers virtually every year, topping out at 950 bull tags for each season. This was way too many, and the bull numbers crashed. Tags were reduced, and have been in the 250-300 range for each rifle hunt the past several years. Today, The elk herd is stable, but not growing, and their is some evidence that the Ochoco unit is starting to see the same downward trend that we are seeing in other Eastside units. The next couple of years will tell the story.
What everyone needs to understand about this unit is that the tremendous amount of public usage on the national forest throughout the year keeps most of the elk on private land. The biologist for the unit has estimated that, in most years, 80% of the elk are on private land by the time the rut starts. That is probably the main reason why The Huntin Fool magazine rates the private land hunt on the ochoco unit as the best elk hunt in Oregon. I have talked to the outfitter who has many of the large ranches tied up, and he told me his business is 95% repeat customers, and with his waiting list, does not expect to have any openings in the foresseable future.
Given that it now takes 5 points to draw the tag, it is a huge gamble to use your points for this hunt if you will be hunting on the forest. Two years ago, we went 4 for 4 on nice branch bulls, the two previous times we had tags, 0-3 and 1-3, and only got one that year because my brother happened to find a nice 6 point 30 miles from where we typically hunt.
One final thing, there is very little point in scouting for the rifle hunt, except to learn the country. The extreme amount of public usage of the unit pushes elk around all summer and fall, and, with the exception of the wilderness areas, it is unlikely elk will be in the same area by the time hunting season starts.
Hope that is helpful.
Scoutdog
For many years, til around 1980 as I recall, ODFW did not want elk on the Ochoco unit. The season was long, over the counter, for any elk. Because of this, the elk herds grew very, very slowly, but they did grow. Success rates weren't real high, but there were a few very large bulls taken each year.
ODFW finally saw the light, and went to bull only around 1980. Unlimited over the counter tags for both first and 2nd season. Because there were not a lot of elk, there were not a lot of hunters when the switch was made, and the the herd population took off. Hunting got better and better throughout the 80's, with nice range size of bulls, and increasing herds. Can't remember when it went limited entry, sometime in the late 80's I think. From that point on, applications took off, and ODFW raised tag numbers virtually every year, topping out at 950 bull tags for each season. This was way too many, and the bull numbers crashed. Tags were reduced, and have been in the 250-300 range for each rifle hunt the past several years. Today, The elk herd is stable, but not growing, and their is some evidence that the Ochoco unit is starting to see the same downward trend that we are seeing in other Eastside units. The next couple of years will tell the story.
What everyone needs to understand about this unit is that the tremendous amount of public usage on the national forest throughout the year keeps most of the elk on private land. The biologist for the unit has estimated that, in most years, 80% of the elk are on private land by the time the rut starts. That is probably the main reason why The Huntin Fool magazine rates the private land hunt on the ochoco unit as the best elk hunt in Oregon. I have talked to the outfitter who has many of the large ranches tied up, and he told me his business is 95% repeat customers, and with his waiting list, does not expect to have any openings in the foresseable future.
Given that it now takes 5 points to draw the tag, it is a huge gamble to use your points for this hunt if you will be hunting on the forest. Two years ago, we went 4 for 4 on nice branch bulls, the two previous times we had tags, 0-3 and 1-3, and only got one that year because my brother happened to find a nice 6 point 30 miles from where we typically hunt.
One final thing, there is very little point in scouting for the rifle hunt, except to learn the country. The extreme amount of public usage of the unit pushes elk around all summer and fall, and, with the exception of the wilderness areas, it is unlikely elk will be in the same area by the time hunting season starts.
Hope that is helpful.
Scoutdog
B
bhunter
Guest
Im all for it to reduce the pressure and pick your weapon I primarily bow hunt for elk but am going rifle for the first time in my life because I have enough points for Murders Creek and this year then I can start applying for the Ochocos bow again. I am all for it.
If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
S
scoutdog5
Guest
Dave, my family has hunted on the Ochoco and Maury units since the 30's, starting with my grandfather. I have testified many times before the game commission about the problems with decreasing deer herds, going back to the early 70's.
Scoutdog
Scoutdog
