wolfhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 434
Thanks guys for speaking up....Buzz probably already knows the truth thats why we hear crickets! He always hides from the REAL truth about wolves. His kind are all the same!
Just say'n
Just say'n
Mexican wolves thriving AZ and NM
- Thread starter Gator
- Start date
eelgrass
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 31,505
I used to be in favor of SSS, but that's wrong. Now I say ignore wolves and let the States deal with them.
I see Idaho appropriated $400,000 for wolf management.
"Last week the Idaho Fish and Game Commission made a rule change allowing year-round wolf hunting on private property in the state?s northern Clearwater Region, which was quickly followed by the passage of a bill that would set aside $400,000 in funds to control gray wolf populations."
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/idah...il&utm_campaign=March 25 2014 Daily Newswire
Hit them in the pocket book and maybe they will figure it out. That will accomplish a lot more than poaching one.
I see Idaho appropriated $400,000 for wolf management.
"Last week the Idaho Fish and Game Commission made a rule change allowing year-round wolf hunting on private property in the state?s northern Clearwater Region, which was quickly followed by the passage of a bill that would set aside $400,000 in funds to control gray wolf populations."
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/idah...il&utm_campaign=March 25 2014 Daily Newswire
Hit them in the pocket book and maybe they will figure it out. That will accomplish a lot more than poaching one.
wolfhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 434
eel,
I agree that SSS is not a good... Letting a herd be destroyed because of politics is worse IMO. Like I have said many times, I have never SSS'd a wolf, I will not either, unless the wolves return to protected status in Wyoming.
What is deathly wrong with this situation is the truth is not making it to the public. You have a part of the wolves story that needs to be told, wolves ARE the big bad killers they have been made out to be. Wolves are incapable of existing in harmony or balanced with ungulates in todays western ecosystem. We have congregated our wintering wildlife in vert small, very populated areas, for the wolves it is like shooting fish in a barrel. Wolves are, and will continue to kill way more than need to simply survive. It's not their fault, they just need HUGE landscapes of un populated wilderness area's to do what they do best...KILL! i.e. Alaska, Canada and Siberia!
Whats going to happen next, in my opinion, is the greenies and or Buzz will blame the feed grounds instead of the wolves. They will want to sacrifice or rid the landscape of elk feeding grounds. That will destroy elk hunting as we know it in Jackson Hole... If this happens, then, I will become a Wyoming wolf vigilante!!! Trust me I will not be alone!!!! Many of us have drawn our line clearly in the sand.
I agree that SSS is not a good... Letting a herd be destroyed because of politics is worse IMO. Like I have said many times, I have never SSS'd a wolf, I will not either, unless the wolves return to protected status in Wyoming.
What is deathly wrong with this situation is the truth is not making it to the public. You have a part of the wolves story that needs to be told, wolves ARE the big bad killers they have been made out to be. Wolves are incapable of existing in harmony or balanced with ungulates in todays western ecosystem. We have congregated our wintering wildlife in vert small, very populated areas, for the wolves it is like shooting fish in a barrel. Wolves are, and will continue to kill way more than need to simply survive. It's not their fault, they just need HUGE landscapes of un populated wilderness area's to do what they do best...KILL! i.e. Alaska, Canada and Siberia!
Whats going to happen next, in my opinion, is the greenies and or Buzz will blame the feed grounds instead of the wolves. They will want to sacrifice or rid the landscape of elk feeding grounds. That will destroy elk hunting as we know it in Jackson Hole... If this happens, then, I will become a Wyoming wolf vigilante!!! Trust me I will not be alone!!!! Many of us have drawn our line clearly in the sand.
nontypical
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,211
Elk feed grounds have been on the hit list for years. Wolves just give these groups more ammo.
It really jacks my jaw that these wolf killing sprees are never published in the big newspapers.
Wolfhunter- Do you know if this info is hitting the JH or Pinedale papers?
It really jacks my jaw that these wolf killing sprees are never published in the big newspapers.
Wolfhunter- Do you know if this info is hitting the JH or Pinedale papers?
Gator
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 18,140
Now the "facts" are starting to show up on the feeding grounds where they are being seen by more then one person.
Facts are packs of wolves are killing elk. Now mind you I haven't seen it, BUT I don't doubt it is happening as it is being reported by eye witnesses.
AZ and NM are the next area's in the battle to stop them from planting more wolves in OUR hunting grounds in those states.
I wonder how long it will take for wolves to show up in southern UT like they did in northern UT.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
Facts are packs of wolves are killing elk. Now mind you I haven't seen it, BUT I don't doubt it is happening as it is being reported by eye witnesses.
AZ and NM are the next area's in the battle to stop them from planting more wolves in OUR hunting grounds in those states.
I wonder how long it will take for wolves to show up in southern UT like they did in northern UT.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
The Wyoming feed grounds are going to see some real attention by the feds in the near future. They are the breeding grounds for Brucellosis, and a real bad deal. Those wolves might be doing us and other elk a favor.
I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
wolfhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 434
>The Wyoming feed grounds are going
>to see some real attention
>by the feds in the
>near future. They are the
>breeding grounds for Brucellosis, and
>a real bad deal. Those
>wolves might be doing us
>and other elk a favor.
>
>
>
>
>I wanted to take a scalp,but
>the kill was not mine.
>
4100fps,
You sure are a counterfeit SOB! The wolves killing all our elk are doing us a favor... WTF is wrong with you??? You hate five wire ranchers, outfitters, anti-wolf hunters and now elk with brucellosis. WTF does your little conservation group actually stand for???
>to see some real attention
>by the feds in the
>near future. They are the
>breeding grounds for Brucellosis, and
>a real bad deal. Those
>wolves might be doing us
>and other elk a favor.
>
>
>
>
>I wanted to take a scalp,but
>the kill was not mine.
>
4100fps,
You sure are a counterfeit SOB! The wolves killing all our elk are doing us a favor... WTF is wrong with you??? You hate five wire ranchers, outfitters, anti-wolf hunters and now elk with brucellosis. WTF does your little conservation group actually stand for???
wolfhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 434
nontypical,
To my knowledge this kind of truth about wolves has never made it into the JHole news. This is the kind of carnage that is never reported, ESPECIALLY... by the wolf experts. I have witnessed this same kind of killing in the Wyoming range, as well as in Idaho, on small bands of wintering elk in deep snow. The experts will deny, deny that this even happens. Hunters need to understand Buzz and the experts may have a great presentation but they are not giving them the TRUTH ABOUT WOLVES!!!
To my knowledge this kind of truth about wolves has never made it into the JHole news. This is the kind of carnage that is never reported, ESPECIALLY... by the wolf experts. I have witnessed this same kind of killing in the Wyoming range, as well as in Idaho, on small bands of wintering elk in deep snow. The experts will deny, deny that this even happens. Hunters need to understand Buzz and the experts may have a great presentation but they are not giving them the TRUTH ABOUT WOLVES!!!
Here is Catron County NM's latest movement:
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?u...&attid=0.1&disp=safe&realattid=f_htken14r0&zw
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?u...&attid=0.1&disp=safe&realattid=f_htken14r0&zw
stoney---None of the links in your last two posts work! The one on Catron County reverts to a Google link and the three regarding AZ need to have the last part of the link corrected so the links are active. I wish WH would start another thread on his JHole refuge wolves like he was politely asked to do so we could keep this thread on track regarding your concerns on the Mexican wolf in AZ & NM. His hijacking of your thread has screwed it all up and you may want to start another and hope he stays off of it so we can continue some maeaningful dialogue to help you in your battle.
I would be interested in what Catron Co. has in the works. Can't really see a plan from NMG&F listed on their website,except a link to AZ.
I am north of Quemado and they are around here. One was shot by a rancher out by Magdelena. One was spotted north of Grants last week.
And an article in Flagstaff paper last week talked of making it a sanctuary city (greenies),as a pack has been spotted moving along Little Colorado river towards the Grand Canyon.
I know AZ G&F don't want them any where north of recovery zone. And say they will deal with it.
I would like to see a plan by NM G&F.
I am north of Quemado and they are around here. One was shot by a rancher out by Magdelena. One was spotted north of Grants last week.
And an article in Flagstaff paper last week talked of making it a sanctuary city (greenies),as a pack has been spotted moving along Little Colorado river towards the Grand Canyon.
I know AZ G&F don't want them any where north of recovery zone. And say they will deal with it.
I would like to see a plan by NM G&F.
mnmthunting
Active Member
- Messages
- 215
Heres something to add from a Gray Wolf Expert.
The more opportunity for wolves to kill/feed on a prey species. (such as Wintering Elk and Deer)
The healthier the wolves the more energy or endurance the predators have for an advantage over the prey. And the more picky the wolves are about what they eat. Choosing organs like the liver often only eating the liver and some blood. Pregnant cows are the favorite, fetuses for sure are the often taken out of the mother while she struggles.
Nice animals, wolves.
Killing a wintering doe or cow is a 3 for one kill.
The more opportunity for wolves to kill/feed on a prey species. (such as Wintering Elk and Deer)
The healthier the wolves the more energy or endurance the predators have for an advantage over the prey. And the more picky the wolves are about what they eat. Choosing organs like the liver often only eating the liver and some blood. Pregnant cows are the favorite, fetuses for sure are the often taken out of the mother while she struggles.
Nice animals, wolves.
Killing a wintering doe or cow is a 3 for one kill.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?u...tt&th=1453a1fb7b42ef53&attid=0.1&disp=safe&zw
Here is an article that is supposed to be published in Bowhunter Magazine written by our Catron County, NM Wolf Investigator Jess Carey.
Jess has documented all wolf depredations in the County for 16 years on livestock including horses and pets and has much documentation elk numbers and estimates on what the wolves are doing to our elk herds here.
I am trying to link other materials here as evidenced above and have a terrible time getting link to this site. Bowsite makes it so much easier. I will keep trying.
Here is an article that is supposed to be published in Bowhunter Magazine written by our Catron County, NM Wolf Investigator Jess Carey.
Jess has documented all wolf depredations in the County for 16 years on livestock including horses and pets and has much documentation elk numbers and estimates on what the wolves are doing to our elk herds here.
I am trying to link other materials here as evidenced above and have a terrible time getting link to this site. Bowsite makes it so much easier. I will keep trying.
>>Hank - That article was a
>>April Fool's spoof.
>I got that part. But AZ
>G&F folks I've talked to
>say wolves moving farther north
>is a big concern for
>them.
***Why did you mention the article if you knew it wasn't for real then?! The lousy photoshop job of those wolves at the town sign was more than a clue that it was an April Fools joke!
>>April Fool's spoof.
>I got that part. But AZ
>G&F folks I've talked to
>say wolves moving farther north
>is a big concern for
>them.
***Why did you mention the article if you knew it wasn't for real then?! The lousy photoshop job of those wolves at the town sign was more than a clue that it was an April Fools joke!
LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-14 AT 10:40AM (MST)[p]Article had quotes from AZ G&F spokesperson that was not tongue in cheek, but used anyway.
They are at least talking about it and developing stratagies.
I can't get straight answer from local NM conservation officer ,or any one in admin. for that matter.
They are not just in the so called recovery zone.
We have found tracks in my area,on my land too.
How long til they are in the new Caldera NP? The Kaibab?
They are at least talking about it and developing stratagies.
I can't get straight answer from local NM conservation officer ,or any one in admin. for that matter.
They are not just in the so called recovery zone.
We have found tracks in my area,on my land too.
How long til they are in the new Caldera NP? The Kaibab?
confirmed... one rancher in Apache county 13 head of livestock killed by wolves. Confirmed by USFWS. 13 head off one ranch? This was not done by all 86 wolves released into the blue area, actually quite a ways from the acclimation pens.
With a decline in our wildlife follows a hardship on the economies of rural Arizona. Think, spotted owl and the timber industry..
With a decline in our wildlife follows a hardship on the economies of rural Arizona. Think, spotted owl and the timber industry..
sagebrush
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,584
Hopefully with the planning process underway in NM and AZ we will be able to delist the Mexican wolf once the viable population objective of 100 is reached in the Recovery Area. Then the states can take control and keep them in the area(s) in the plan. As it stands now, any Mexican gray wolf found outside of the BRWRA is captured and returned or destroyed. If anyone is seeing wolves outside of the BRWRA, they need to be reporting them to G&F so the appropriate action can be taken. If you see something, say something. Otherwise people seeing wolves outside of the Recovery Area that don't report them have no right to complain when they reach the Caldera NP, the Kaibab/Paunsaugunt or their backyard.
They are well aware of sightings outside the zone.'
Local warden is 5 mi away,neighbor. I'll ask him point blank,when he's not out patroling 3000sq mi.
Local outfitter says unofficial NMG&F policy is that NMG&F is no longer in the recovery business. Any reported will be dealt with.
He also said the recent shooting by rancher outside Los Lunas brought USFW officials to ranchers place within hours. Tracking collars with kill sensors. Thin ones that can't be seen,not the old bright orange.
So watch it with the SSS talk.
A wolf on dead carcass is OK. One attacking stock or people is No
Bueno.
I personally don't feel threatened.
I don't think a Non-Native hybred ,cross bred Mexican sub-spieces should have been introduced.Not any more than a Canadian version,like was done to WY,MT,ID. Native version is extinct. Gone. Goodby.
I think Grizzilies might actually qualify tho. And Bison.....
Local warden is 5 mi away,neighbor. I'll ask him point blank,when he's not out patroling 3000sq mi.
Local outfitter says unofficial NMG&F policy is that NMG&F is no longer in the recovery business. Any reported will be dealt with.
He also said the recent shooting by rancher outside Los Lunas brought USFW officials to ranchers place within hours. Tracking collars with kill sensors. Thin ones that can't be seen,not the old bright orange.
So watch it with the SSS talk.
A wolf on dead carcass is OK. One attacking stock or people is No
Bueno.
I personally don't feel threatened.
I don't think a Non-Native hybred ,cross bred Mexican sub-spieces should have been introduced.Not any more than a Canadian version,like was done to WY,MT,ID. Native version is extinct. Gone. Goodby.
I think Grizzilies might actually qualify tho. And Bison.....
The NMGFD is involved in the wolf program as they have a member on the USFWS ID Team and Stuart Liley (elk biologist for the Dept.)is on top of the situation. We are biding our time in getting the Dept. too involved with the Feds as they have and do what they want anyway, until the wolves are actually delisted. At that time NM will be ready to manage the wolves. We are working hard to keep the numbers of wolves that we can live with.
We are keeping our NMGFD Commissioners up to date and giving them enough info to hopefully having them jump the gun and sign off on the AZ proposed alternative. NM should have it's alternative documents ready soon. We are working hard with the Game Dept. to come up with as accurate elk population numbers as we can to justify that we are at capacity now with the wolves presently on the ground here in the Secondary Recovery Area.
AZ, as I have mentioned above, has and is involved a whole lot more in bringing back wolves to AZ and have been instrumental in the USFWS establishing wolves into the Mogollon Rim and Blue in Eastern AZ as the Primary Recovery Zone. Terry Johnson's whole goal is just not to have AZ manage wolves but insure that they have a not only a viable population but a recovered one. Basically he is throwing NM under the bus with the numbers he proposed in the draft proposed alternative. He should have his updated proposal ready soon. I tried to link in some of the comments coming from the opposition to his numbers but haven't figured out how to work this darn MM site yet. They need to go over to Bowsite to get some simple technology for pasting articles on the MM site.
We are keeping our NMGFD Commissioners up to date and giving them enough info to hopefully having them jump the gun and sign off on the AZ proposed alternative. NM should have it's alternative documents ready soon. We are working hard with the Game Dept. to come up with as accurate elk population numbers as we can to justify that we are at capacity now with the wolves presently on the ground here in the Secondary Recovery Area.
AZ, as I have mentioned above, has and is involved a whole lot more in bringing back wolves to AZ and have been instrumental in the USFWS establishing wolves into the Mogollon Rim and Blue in Eastern AZ as the Primary Recovery Zone. Terry Johnson's whole goal is just not to have AZ manage wolves but insure that they have a not only a viable population but a recovered one. Basically he is throwing NM under the bus with the numbers he proposed in the draft proposed alternative. He should have his updated proposal ready soon. I tried to link in some of the comments coming from the opposition to his numbers but haven't figured out how to work this darn MM site yet. They need to go over to Bowsite to get some simple technology for pasting articles on the MM site.
