So I am looking for a new muzzleloader to purchase for my utah deer tag and I can't make up my mind. I just would like any help or input to help push me towards a final decision. Right now I'm leaning towards the traditions vortex 28" barrel or the cva MR... but I have not looked at the cva accura v2 or any of the Thompson center models like the encore pro hunter. Should I hold off and look at more muzzleloader selections or are all of these close enough to each other that it doesn't matter? I would like honest opinions because I just want the best muzzleloader for the price. I'm willing to spend the money for a great muzzleloader set up. Thanks
Muzzleloader Help
- Thread starter Skit
- Start date
BIGJOHNT
Long Time Member
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- 5,185
I would look at the Thompson. I have had most of the muzzle loaders your asking about. But I think the Thompson is a little better all around. I have a Cva Optima and it shoots fine. But the fit and finish is better on the Thompson. Plus the Thompson's you can change out the barrel to center fire or shotgun if you wish. Maybe its just trying to keep the muzzle loaders clean that is they issue. But all around I think the Thompson's are better.
txhunter58
Long Time Member
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- 8,590
T/C guns are well built, and I own 2. And for Utah, they would be a good choice They shoot sabots very well. However, if you ever want to shoot conicals (like Colorado requires) they would be a bad choice. Bottom line is due to the QLA, they may not shoot them at all.
My go to guns for Colorado (if I am not using my T/C renegade sidelock) is my Knight long range hunter or my white. Both are used guns only.
If I were in the market today, I would look hard at the knight mountaineer and the CVA accura or optima. Never had any experiences with Traditions.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
My go to guns for Colorado (if I am not using my T/C renegade sidelock) is my Knight long range hunter or my white. Both are used guns only.
If I were in the market today, I would look hard at the knight mountaineer and the CVA accura or optima. Never had any experiences with Traditions.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-15 AT 08:42PM (MST)[p]I have the Accura V2 from CVA and I love it! I think the TC's are overpriced. I also think the TC Encore is heavier than my Accura V2.
The best Muzzleloader for the price????????? The CVA Optima V2. I think its about 250$. GREAT GUN FOR A GREAT PRICE!
My bullet holes are touching at 100 yards. No matter which one you choose, you have to figure out which load works best for YOUR gun. I bought 3-4 different kinds of sabots and tried them all. It was pretty easy to see which one my gun liked.
Find out from others what loads work best for them who have the same muzzleloader.
CVA's are very easy to clean, no tool to get the breach plug out. Convenient! CVA has the fluted bergara barrel. The best on the market.
One of the best triggers as well.
Good Luck!
Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."
"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."
"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
The best Muzzleloader for the price????????? The CVA Optima V2. I think its about 250$. GREAT GUN FOR A GREAT PRICE!
My bullet holes are touching at 100 yards. No matter which one you choose, you have to figure out which load works best for YOUR gun. I bought 3-4 different kinds of sabots and tried them all. It was pretty easy to see which one my gun liked.
Find out from others what loads work best for them who have the same muzzleloader.
CVA's are very easy to clean, no tool to get the breach plug out. Convenient! CVA has the fluted bergara barrel. The best on the market.
One of the best triggers as well.
Good Luck!
Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."
"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."
"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
deadibob
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,067
I'm going to comment on here again. I do think T/C's are a better overall fit and finished gun than the CVA. The CVA's aren't bad but not as refined. The accuracy is why I've stuck with CVA.
It can take some time and money to find what some muzzys like. My local store is now $43 for a can of blackhorn 209. That is for 10 ounces, not even a pound. Some of the bullets marketed for muzzleloaders are $1-$2 each. I am going back to casting bullets for my muzzys this year. I've picked up some new molds and hopefully I will find that magic bullet.
It can take some time and money to find what some muzzys like. My local store is now $43 for a can of blackhorn 209. That is for 10 ounces, not even a pound. Some of the bullets marketed for muzzleloaders are $1-$2 each. I am going back to casting bullets for my muzzys this year. I've picked up some new molds and hopefully I will find that magic bullet.
hhunter23
Active Member
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- 515
i just bought a cva accura v2 a couple months ago. i am currently working on my load and its coming along nicely. like already mentioned it is very easy to clean and the breach plug comes out very easily. i dont have a single complaint with this muzzy and would recommend it to anyone. i did shoot the mountaineer and at 800$ i cant justify that much money for a muzzy that shoots the same as the CVA. i thought the thompson centers were overrated myself, but thats just me. good luck
"Shoot Straight"
"Shoot Straight"
I swab the bore between shots at the range and while hunting. I could see how some folks would be turned off by that but the accuracy, confidence, and ease of loading I get is well worth the inconvenience. I carry a small zip lock with damp patches and another with dry. I run the wet patch down and out followed by a dry patch. I don't scrub, just in and out once with each patch then reload. I've heard that with bh209 you don't have to swab between shots. I shoot granular 777.
TR175
Active Member
- Messages
- 142
>I am also looking for a
>new muzzleloader. Is the v2
>easy to load after being
>shot with sabots? When I
>hunted muzzleloaders years ago they
>were a beast to get
>the bullet and sabot down
>the barrel.
>
>O--one
>B--big
>A--ass
>M--mistake
>A--america
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
muzz, if you use blackhorn 209 you should be able to run quite a few rounds down the tube and still have easy loading. It's expensive but works great.
>new muzzleloader. Is the v2
>easy to load after being
>shot with sabots? When I
>hunted muzzleloaders years ago they
>were a beast to get
>the bullet and sabot down
>the barrel.
>
>O--one
>B--big
>A--ass
>M--mistake
>A--america
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
muzz, if you use blackhorn 209 you should be able to run quite a few rounds down the tube and still have easy loading. It's expensive but works great.
deadibob
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,067
throw that triple 7 in the trash or give it to some other fool ;-) Not only is blackhorn much cleaner and you won't need to swab between shots again, but, I get over 200fps with blackhorn 209 than I did with triple 7. That is verified velocities over my chronograph.
I have partial cans of pyrodex and triple 7 along with triple 7 pellets that I haven't touched in years. It sucks trying to get a follow up shot on an animal and taking a time out to swab your bore, if and when that scenario ever arises.
I have partial cans of pyrodex and triple 7 along with triple 7 pellets that I haven't touched in years. It sucks trying to get a follow up shot on an animal and taking a time out to swab your bore, if and when that scenario ever arises.
That scenario hasn't risen for me. Whatever I have shot was taking a dirt nap about the time I got the first patch down the muzzle, so time has been on my side. I pick my shots and shoot them dead. If I need rapid fire I would go with a bolt gun or semi-auto. Each powder has it's pros and cons. 777 just shoots too good for me.
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,590
2 of my rifles (T/C renegade and my White whitetail) won't shoot BH 209, and 777 works just fine in them. For my inlines though, BH is really nice and I wouldn't go back.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
deadibob
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,067
You are speaking out of ignorance if you haven't even tried blackhorn 209. I have yet to hear of anyone who tried it and didn't stay with it. Whether or not you kill everything first shot everytime, patching between shots is a needless, time consuming chore that eventually will get in the way.
I get more consistent groups with blackhorn than I ever did with 777. The chronograph data backs this up as there are less extreme spreads in velocity with blackhorn. I used to think 777 was great compared to pyrodex as far as velocity was concerned. Blackhorn is even that much better. Stick with what you like though, because you don't know what you're missing. The only pro I see with 777 is a lower cost. Of course you probably lose any savings with all the extra patches needed ;-)
I get more consistent groups with blackhorn than I ever did with 777. The chronograph data backs this up as there are less extreme spreads in velocity with blackhorn. I used to think 777 was great compared to pyrodex as far as velocity was concerned. Blackhorn is even that much better. Stick with what you like though, because you don't know what you're missing. The only pro I see with 777 is a lower cost. Of course you probably lose any savings with all the extra patches needed ;-)
deadibob
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,067
>Yeah I might have to try
>it next season. The new
>load I worked up with
>777 this spring is just
>too awesome in the accuracy
>department. To each there own.
>
Good luck and give it a try when you can. I too thought that 777 was the cat's azz until I tried blackhorn.
>it next season. The new
>load I worked up with
>777 this spring is just
>too awesome in the accuracy
>department. To each there own.
>
Good luck and give it a try when you can. I too thought that 777 was the cat's azz until I tried blackhorn.
COLOelkman
Very Active Member
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- 1,039
I'd also suggest considering a Knight Ultralite or a White. The Ultralite will shoot BH 209 and with a White, you won't have to swab between shots ever!
I shoot a T/C Omega with 80 gr. by weight of Blackhorn 209. 290 gr. Barnes Spitfire EZ sabot. I have Leupold QR rings so I can switch from my 2X7 to 1X scope or iron sights without having to re-sight in my scopes. I hunt CO, IL, NV & UT with a muzzleloader.
If I were to buy an muzzleloader today it would be a Remington Ultimate. Hands down. If I draw that NM Elk tag, it goes on my wish list.
You can have all my Triple Se7en and Pyrodex. I will never use it again.
A great resource is www.Randywakeman.com
If I were to buy an muzzleloader today it would be a Remington Ultimate. Hands down. If I draw that NM Elk tag, it goes on my wish list.
You can have all my Triple Se7en and Pyrodex. I will never use it again.
A great resource is www.Randywakeman.com
I have a Thompson center omega 50. I shoot triple seven pellets. and powerbelt bullets. I have never had a problem with my gun. Never misfired, and is accurate. I can shoot up to 225 yards. Further than that I don't shoot. I have killed a San Juan bull and Paunsagant deer with it and a few others. My 70 year old dad shot a 350 bull on the beaver unit with it. And friends have also killed big bulls with it. I have never owned another muzzleloader and if I were to buy a new one it would be the same kind.
cabinfever
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,382
I'm going to get hammered for saying this, but I'm not a fan of the break action muzzleloaders. If you don't get the same alignment every time you break and close the action you will have accuracy problems. I have a TC Omega which has the rolling block style action. I shoot a 100 grains of BH 209 pushing a 250 gr Thor. Deadly accurate out to 250 yards. I believe TC quit making the Omega. Bad decision IMO.
Elkslayer1125
Active Member
- Messages
- 234
I bought the Traditions vortek for my LE elk hunt this year, it's a great gun and is deadly accurate that's what I would go with if I were you.
joesikora
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,314
Hi skit, if you haven't bought a gun yet, I bought a used camo Thompson Centerline with the matching camo scope with some bullets, pellets, primers, etc after my first Muley hunt that I've never shot myself. Let me know if your interested, the only thing I seen it needs is a new ram rod.
Good luck to you
Joe
"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
Good luck to you
Joe
"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
Horniac
Very Active Member
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- 1,336
I am working up an ID legal load for my Knight MK85 .54 cal. The BH209 is legal in ID, but the #11 percussion caps are not hot enough to ignite the BH209 according to the manufacturer's data. Has anyone successfuly used BH209 with a #11 percussion cap? If not, I guess it will be 777 or Pyrodex to push the heavy lead conicals out of my old Knight. I remember everyone touting the many advantages of 777 over Pyrodex when it first came out, much like all the advantages BH209 has over 777 that you guys are talking about now...
Thanks,
Horniac
Thanks,
Horniac
mlycrzy
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,068
>I am working up an ID
>legal load for my Knight
>MK85 .54 cal. The BH209
>is legal in ID, but
>the #11 percussion caps are
>not hot enough to ignite
>the BH209 according to the
>manufacturer's data. Has anyone
>successfuly used BH209 with a
>#11 percussion cap? If not,
>I guess it will
>be 777 or Pyrodex to
>push the heavy lead conicals
>out of my old Knight.
>I remember everyone touting the
>many advantages of 777 over
>Pyrodex when it first
>came out, much like all
>the advantages BH209 has over
>777 that you guys are
>talking about now...
>
>Thanks,
>
>Horniac
It states directly on the BH209 bottle to not use flintlock-#11 percussion or musket caps!!
>legal load for my Knight
>MK85 .54 cal. The BH209
>is legal in ID, but
>the #11 percussion caps are
>not hot enough to ignite
>the BH209 according to the
>manufacturer's data. Has anyone
>successfuly used BH209 with a
>#11 percussion cap? If not,
>I guess it will
>be 777 or Pyrodex to
>push the heavy lead conicals
>out of my old Knight.
>I remember everyone touting the
>many advantages of 777 over
>Pyrodex when it first
>came out, much like all
>the advantages BH209 has over
>777 that you guys are
>talking about now...
>
>Thanks,
>
>Horniac
It states directly on the BH209 bottle to not use flintlock-#11 percussion or musket caps!!
Horniac
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,336
>>I am working up an ID
>>legal load for my Knight
>>MK85 .54 cal. The BH209
>>is legal in ID, but
>>the #11 percussion caps are
>>not hot enough to ignite
>>the BH209 according to the
>>manufacturer's data. Has anyone
>>successfuly used BH209 with a
>>#11 percussion cap? If not,
>>I guess it will
>>be 777 or Pyrodex to
>>push the heavy lead conicals
>>out of my old Knight.
>>I remember everyone touting the
>>many advantages of 777 over
>>Pyrodex when it first
>>came out, much like all
>>the advantages BH209 has over
>>777 that you guys are
>>talking about now...
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Horniac
>
>It states directly on the BH209
>bottle to not use flintlock-#11
>percussion or musket caps!!
Understood Mlycrzy! Just wondering if someone had used a certain brand of #11 caps that were hotter or something and were able to get reliable ignition with the BH209...
Horniac
>>legal load for my Knight
>>MK85 .54 cal. The BH209
>>is legal in ID, but
>>the #11 percussion caps are
>>not hot enough to ignite
>>the BH209 according to the
>>manufacturer's data. Has anyone
>>successfuly used BH209 with a
>>#11 percussion cap? If not,
>>I guess it will
>>be 777 or Pyrodex to
>>push the heavy lead conicals
>>out of my old Knight.
>>I remember everyone touting the
>>many advantages of 777 over
>>Pyrodex when it first
>>came out, much like all
>>the advantages BH209 has over
>>777 that you guys are
>>talking about now...
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Horniac
>
>It states directly on the BH209
>bottle to not use flintlock-#11
>percussion or musket caps!!
Understood Mlycrzy! Just wondering if someone had used a certain brand of #11 caps that were hotter or something and were able to get reliable ignition with the BH209...
Horniac
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,590
Even magnum #11 caps are much weaker than 209 primers and you need a strong 209 to get the job done.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
