Need an experienced and licensed Arizona guide to do a Unit 9 antelope hunt!

[DonMartin]

If any of you experienced licensed guides would like to do a Unit 9 antelope hunt, I've got a hunter all booked.

Unfortunately I just had to let go the guy who was assigned to do the hunt; thus I need someone immediately. You need to provide a camp, plus you need experience in guiding antelope.

I have the forest permit.

Call me at 928-303-9481 for more information.

Thanks,

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

 

[AZBORN]

I bet the hunter has no idea you're doing a last minute scramble to find a him a guide whom you have yet to meet or qualify. But I guess that's his problem now.

 

[AZ4life]

Yeah, might be time to give his deposit back so he can find another outfit.

 

[AZBORN]

I agree, that was my first thought too. AZ wildlife Outfitters mission (per website) is to guarantee 'quality'. But doing a 'Craigs list' style search for an unknown and un-vetted person to cook, clean and hunt, with just a few days till the season opener is...(fill-in one of many choice words here).
Poor hunter spent 20 years trying to draw an antelope tag. Then wrote a hefty check.
Nothin against the guide personally but the backlash here is deserved.

 

[PLK]

Both of you guys should personally apologize to Mr. Martin. The mere thought that he would hire some "unknown and un-vetted person" is just nonsense. AZBORN, you have made it clear from your previous posts that you are simply against guides in general as they are not needed and put too much pressure on the trophy animals. Don has spent years building a great reputation and you can rest assured that he is exploring all avenues (including reaching out on Monster Muleys) to find a capable replacement guide. Why are you guys even worried about it! Don most likely has more integrity than both of you combined.

In any case, I figured you guys would be happy if the guided hunter ate his tag or shot a smaller buck; then there would be 1 more big antelope buck for you DIY guys to hunt.

 

[fortheloveofit]

People against guides don't realize some people don't have the time it takes to kill a quality animal. Thus they hire a guide like myself or others to go do what we as guides will do regardless of hunters or just the love of being out in the hills looking at quality animals. My honest opinion is guys against guides are jealous that we get compensated to do what we love. I have been privileged enough to hunt with some amazing guys through my career and have made life long friends with everyone of them. Say what you want about guides but we are just blue collar guys living out our love of hunting

 

[AZBORN]

We hear you PLK. But Mr. Martin's very unusual appeal at the last minute is a head scratcher. The appearance that he is putting his business interests ahead of his client is worth comment. AZ4life is justified to suggest the man's money should be returned while he still has a chance to find a guide service who is ready to do the job. Mr. Martin is not ready to do the job as he has made clear. That's how a reputation is made... by putting other's interests ahead of your own. He has decided to take a business risk the will find a good enough guide and the hunter will be satisfied. He is forcing the client to take that risk with him. Not fair to a guy who has waited two decades for his antelope tag.
Your last comment was a jab. I would love to hear about the hunter killing the new state record antelope 'as a DIY hunter'. Because he then, really is a hunter, not a follower and trigger puller. Its very doable if you try. No excuses about being out of state etc.
But who cares? I don't care what choices people make in life... until we see it starting to have an effect on the rest of us. You're absolutely right about the excessive pressure being placed on trophy buck/bulls in the trophy units of AZ. Guides camp on these deer year round as a money making business. In our trophy units its harder and harder to see those big deer or to have an enjoyable hunt experience (at or near any water source). That's the only reason I care that people have started buying their trophies and stopped being the hunter.

 

[AZBORN]

As long as their are those who have lost what you seem to have (loving the real hunt) you will be fine in your guide business. Most of us would like to see the pendulum swing back where it has always been.
Its an old line to say you do it for the love of the hunt. Be real, its a money maker.
Take away the money that you're are banking from each non-hunter, and lets see how long you keep guiding strangers ... for "the love of it".

Guides are putting way to much pressure on the biggest bucks and bulls, and its getting worse.

 

[AZBORN]

THE issue here in Arizona and what needs to be addressed...

We see the impact of guides greater than most states. Arizona's famous big mule deer bucks are located in a small percentage of the state north of the grand canyon. In comparison to other states, the area is much flatter and easy to hunt. In Colorado you can find big bucks from the very north to the south of the state. Far east to far west. Not so in AZ. Guides have saturated our 'much smaller area' with hundreds of paid helpers and trail cams.
The pressure on the monster muleys has become excessive in recent times. Making it harder and harder for the DIY guys (majority of hunters) to locate a 190+ buck. Simi-local guides with very local helpers live on-top of the deer year round. They are like the paparazzi taking thousands of pics and giving them names.
The bigger bucks can't stand this pressure forever and the hunt quality is worse now than ever. Its TRUE. The catalyst has been the online world that can stoke a flame. There's a hire-a-guide frenzy that we see now with internet/social media. If you draw a coveted tag in AZ, people will say that you better hire a guide as if your hunt and life depended on it.
Its a sad time for "the love of the hunt". Our generation has decided to exploit our big game. We all know why.

 

[fortheloveofit]

AZBORN

If you think people are guiding to get rich you sadly mistaken. I work full time a to provide for my family and my hobby of being out in the hills. No doubt guiding off sets the fuel spent but by no means am I getting rich. Also yeah I will continue to take people hunting me money or no money I love the challenge of finding "the biggest" animal possible. This puts no more stress on big animals. What's the difference between me chasing after them for a hunter or you chasing after them for yourself. I put the time and effort in to every animal we harvest. Where's the wrong in this am I missing something

 

[AZBORN]

More and more people should watch this MossyOak Camo Video:

https://youtu.be/_jDLXe3vk78

We need to get back to the respectful concept of 'earning' what we achieve. The extremely high pressure placed on monster bucks from paid guides will start to ease off a tad.

If you don't have the time to scout and hunt.. wait til you do. But don't let a guide do it for you.

Go DIY... the inner you will thank you

 

[fortheloveofit]

Why are you worried about what other tag holders are choosing to do with their tag. They have paid their dues waited their turn and if they decide to hire a guide so be it. Just because said guide has 6 helpers the hunter is in one area. In guiding terms your only as good as your hunter. If you put the time and effort in then you have done your part for the tag after all it's hunting not killing no one is for sured a big buck whether it's the diy guy or the guy with 10 helpers it's all public land fair chase.

 

[AZBORN]

Thank God you're not doing it to get rich. If that were the case all would be lost. I never mentioned u getting rich. But you do take strangers out for the 'profit' more than the love. Test it by taking away the money component and we'll see how long your desire lasts to guide strangers for the love of it.
But do what you want, I don't care, until it starts to effect me and others.


...Its starting to effect me and others.

 

[fortheloveofit]

Work harder than I do and the results will be shown whether it's you that I'm taking hunting of joe blow that I have never seen in my life you both will have the same hunt. If your tired of guides killing bigger animals for their hunters than what your killing start putting more time and effort into your hunting but don't bag on the people that are spending the money putting the time and effort out and in turns showing the results

 

[AZBORN]

You are glossing over my point Fortheloveofit, and missing the real issue. The pressure of the paparazzi guides on monster bucks is getting to be more than the deer can bare. Its effecting all of us now. If it weren't for that, then do what you want.. who cares.
My hats off to you for the hard work you speak of. I admire that effort and most of us would enjoy listening to your hunt stories. However.. We don't have to like how you brag about all your 'hard work' for the loveofit, when we all know its motivated by the thousands of dollars you take to do it. You tell me to work harder. I tell you to stop cashing thousands of dollars in checks and see how your work effort is affected. It will be affected AND the deer herd will thank you.

Its not you, but I would like to persuade the clients who don't put any effort to locate and outsmart a monster. Persuade them to re-learn the respectful 'DIY or nothing' mentality that dad, granddad and great granddad embraced. Its respectful and admirable. AND the deer herd will thank them.

It is said many times and I will repeat it to the clients out there. "Its not about killing, its about hunting". To the check writers and trigger pullers, it can only be about killing, under the guise of hunting.

its just good we can dialogue about it. I don't have any hard feelings toward you as a guide. If I had to bet, I would bet you're a good guy.

Its about the extreme pressure on our shrinking monster buck herd. ($$)

 

[DoeNob]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-02-16 AT 02:39PM (MST)[p]Meh, all of society is changing to becoming less self reliant, hunting is the same way. Older generations were more self reliant - everyone used to change their own oil, cut their own lawn, do their own home improvements.

Now I've got a maid, a lawn guy a babysitter and I don't change my oil either. A lot of guys have wives that work instead of having her handle the household so you sub out a lot of that work.

I still make time to scout some of my hunts though because I WANT to, I enjoy it. Sometimes I hire a guide if I haven't had the time to scout. Traveling thousands of miles kind of takes you out of being able to scout more than 1 or 2 weekends by the time they tell you that you drew the tag until the hunt anyway. On lower density units, that may not be enough time to get it done.

And you have to pick and choose - I may have 3 out of state tags in different states any given year and no way I could scout all of them to the fullest.

Neither way is wrong, it's definitely more satisfying to DIY all the way but it's not a realistic expectation for anyone that lives great distance from the unit.

 

[CAelknuts]

Interesting, and disturbing, direction this thread has taken. AZborn obviously has a problem with hunters hiring guides and more specifically, with guides themselves. As a non-resident who has drawn AZ tags two years in a row, last year 13A deer and this year unit 10 antelope, I feel just a little bit qualified to weigh in.

Last year, I hired A3 to guide me as I knew the strip would be a tough hunt with great potential and it would very likely be the only time I ever get to hunt there on my own tag. I did not have time to scout. It was the right decision. I had an outstanding hunt even though I didn't kill a giant. I did pass up a great buck opening day that would have been my biggest to date (likely 190-195" buck) in hopes of finding a giant. We did find a bigger buck and spent a week hunting him, without ever having a shot opportunity. In the end, I ended up shooting a very old, downhill buck to cull him from the herd. My choice. The A3 guys were a bit stunned that I shot him but heck, my guided hunt had already ended a day earlier and they were still out trying to help me find a buck. If I ever draw another strip tag, I'll hire A3 again without hesitation. They're The Best, IMO.

This year I decided to hunt on my own and try to kill a B&C pronghorn. Even though I didn't hire them, the A3 guys gave me good suggestions on places to scout/hunt and I saw some very neat areas. I scouted 4 days prior to opening day. Last night, I shot a very cool looking buck that isn't quite as big as I'd hoped to take but I fell in love with his character. He scores a bit north of 82" and is my biggest pronghorn to date. It was a wonderful hunt to share with my son. I'm very happy with both last year's and this year's bucks.

In closing, I'd like to share a few observations. #1, with the low tag numbers that AZGFD issues in 'trophy' units, I do not think too much pressure is being placed on the animals. #2, if I just burned 23 points (my points this year) on a pronghorn tag, and booked a guided hunt, I would not be happy to learn that my outfitter was looking for a guide just a few days prior to opener, regardless of the reason. I know Don Martin has a great reputation and I'd happily hunt with hi if I wanted a guide other than the ones I've used in the past. Still, I would be very concerned about this situation. #3, with the difficulty in drawing tags for a non-resident, guides make great sense for the majority of out of state hunters. #4, now that I'm done antelope hunting, my son and I are headed to unit 9 to go look at some elk. #5, AZborn is a jack wagon who I don't care to read any more posts from.

From a motel in Seligman,

Dan