New debate on HB0002

[mulecreek]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

I honestly thought it would be higher than 50% overall success and 20% success on the target buck. Given where it ranks with total hunter success rates its about the same as the uninformed, unguided hunter.

With no tangible difference between your clients and the general population I wonder why people are signing up? I suppose people by useless stuff all the time.

From the success rates you show I would agree that your services impact is negligible on both quantity and quality. However, the Bill doesn't just prevent Brian Latturner from doing it, it prevents anyone from doing it. If only one guy in Wyoming was shooting from 500 yds plus then long range rifles would be a negligible impact as well. If the Expo in Utah only auctioned off one tag then the impact would be negligible as well. If only one guy was poaching bucks on the winter range then that would be negligible. If there was only one well pad in the desert then that would be negligible. etc.

 

[Founder]

>Thanks for the info, I appreciate
>it.
>
>I honestly thought it would be
>higher than 50% overall success
>and 20% success on the
>target buck. Given where
>it ranks with total hunter
>success rates its about the
>same as the uninformed, unguided
>hunter.
>
>With no tangible difference between your
>clients and the general population
>I wonder why people are
>signing up? I suppose
>people by useless stuff all
>the time.
>
>From the success rates you show
>I would agree that your
>services impact is negligible on
>both quantity and quality.
>However, the Bill doesn't just
>prevent Brian Latturner from doing
>it, it prevents anyone from
>doing it. If only
>one guy in Wyoming was
>shooting from 500 yds plus
>then long range rifles would
>be a negligible impact as
>well. If the Expo
>in Utah only auctioned off
>one tag then the impact
>would be negligible as well.
> If only one guy
>was poaching bucks on the
>winter range then that would
>be negligible. If there
>was only one well pad
>in the desert then that
>would be negligible. etc.
>

So if you agree that there is no tangible difference in herd quality or quantity or opportunity, why would it matter if there were a thousand people doing what I do? If my client success rate is the same as everyone else?s, then it wouldn't matter how many me?s are out helping others, would it? Success rate would still be the same, about 50%.
I agree, and that's why I have the opinion I have. Me selling my knowledge doesn't change herd quality or quantity. What it does, is shifts around ?who? might harvest a deer with big antlers. That's it.

Plus, if you're in the belief that those who buy my reports are just throwing their money in the trash, then why fight it at all, let people throw whatever money they want away.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!

 

[Founder]

And not that you really care, but the information reports and consulting provide are not valuable to most just because they showed the location of where a big buck was seen. There?s more too it than just that.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!

 

[mulecreek]

I have made my personal stance on your service very aware over the years on the countless threads about it. But here it is again, what you are doing is just one more way to turn the animals we hunt into a commodity. I think it does absolutely no good to anyone other than the person selling wildlife locations. Wildlife was turned into a commodity on an industrial scale in the mid 1800's and it damn near lead to the disappearance of entire species we currently get to hunt. We stopped that through solid regulation. What resulted from that regulation was the envy of damn near every other country. Now in the last 20 years we have seen the rise of more ways to turn wildlife into a commodity except now its based on antler size. I'll beat you to it and state that yes there are lots of ways and people trying to make a dollar off of a bucks antlers why try to stop just this one? I'll answer that with, you eat an elephant one bite at a time.

When asked how this is any different than outiftters all I can say is outfitting use to be different. It is or already has morphed into a sale of bucks and bulls antlers and I don't like that either. The only saving grace I can say about the modern day outfitting industry is there are applications where it benefits a person beyond being able to post antlers on Instagram. In certain locations it can help a person get to experience a hunt for a species or in locations they may otherwise not be able to in any practical way. What you sell doesn't even do that. The people you assist aren't incapable of going hunting without you. They aren't incapable of accessing the backcountry without you. They aren't incapable of finding a buck without you. They aren't incapable of killing a buck without you. What they are is so worried they wont get the biggest buck possible that they are willing to pay you $1000+ to tell them where one lives with only a 20% chance they will even see that deer. Your service strives to remove the hunt as much as possible. I am confident that if you could tie these bucks to a tree until the hunter arrives you would. I am also confident that you would have people lining up to buy that service.

When I hear folks on this thread say those that oppose your service just have "penis envy", I can only view it the other way around. Those that use your service so envious of the antlers you have found they will pay you just to tell them where it was when you saw it.

As I have said before, I do not think you are a bad guy for doing what you do. I don't think the people that use your service are bad folks either. But it is so polar opposite of what hunting means to me and in my eyes will only lead to further destruction of the animals I love to hunt with no benefit to anyone or anything other than yourself, that I am willing to work to try to end it. I know that I wont change your mind so I don't try to convince you otherwise. Just as you will never change my mind on this issue.

 

[mulecreek]

>And not that you really care,
>but the information reports and
>consulting provide are not valuable
>to most just because they
>showed the location of where
>a big buck was seen.
>There?s more too it than
>just that.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Is your graduated fee schedule based on how awesome the camping spot and water source is or is it based off the B&C score of the buck?

 

[grosventrehunter]

Very well said mulecreek, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Founder]

Fair enough. Your opinion is respected.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!

 

[hossblur]

>>
>>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6kSHOoFVc1LN0xMR1FmalhhUnc/view?usp=drivesdk
>>
>>Seems its a little more costly
>>to "share" for guides.
>>
>>They also have insurances, bonds, camps,
>>etc.
>>
>>From a business standpoint its easy
>>to see how they are
>>irritated that they are paying
>>big money to do what
>>you do free of charge?
>>
>>
>>But I'm fine with not allowing
>>guiding on public land.
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>
>Educate yourself on "why" insurance, bonds,
>F.S. permits, etc. are required
>by the F.S.
>And read above, I'd be happy
>to pay double the fee
>the state charges guides. Heck,
>I'd be fine paying what
>the outfitters pay the state,
>I'd just have to help
>more people.
>My complaint has never been about
>paying a fee if one
>was required to sell a
>report filled with information.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Sorry. Imagine my confusion. I had no idea you had to pay a fee share your 1st amendment knowledge.

Its amusing that its gone from "I'm getting a civil rights lawyer and suing" to now you'll pay double what guides do?

I asked you last year. I've asked you again. Where in "scouting services" should the line be drawn? Would YOU, FOUNDER, sell real time info? Would you "light one up" like military scouts do to guide GPS projectiles? Would you tag one? I agree totally on LR. But that's not the question. In fact if you want to lead a crusade, I'm on board. But that doesn't address where SCOUTING SERVICES are, or more important, WHERE ITS HEADING.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[hossblur]

For the record Founder. I think you were targeted.

Its kind of a backhanded compliment to you knowing your chit.

Doesn't change my stance, on the industry, but I never disagreed the WYOGA was gunning for you specifically.

Also props for the open debate you took part in. I owe you a beer sometime( beer is what us fat azz loud mouths drink?).


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[rockymtnhunter]

Mulecreek - You hit the bullseye! Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Robiland]

So will this bill eliminate trail cam use? Because if a guide uses a trail cam and shows a client the buck/bull the animal, he then hunts that animal in known spot of trial cam pics, that is in violation of selling coordinates, I would assume. But maybe thats just me.