NEW EXPO TAG PROCESS

Tri-

There is nothing dishonest about calling for "transparency" with regard to Expo Tag monies. SFW promised sportsmen a "full accounting" and invited sportsmen to ask "how much of the money went to the ground" in the form of actual conservation projects. Those are their words. See direct quotes from SFW's founder and lobbyist below. Folks like me are just following up those promises and commitments 12 years later.

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
Actually there are people on these forums who hate the expo tags and think by screaming for "transparency" they will either get the tags removed from the expo or SFW harmed. If you are unawhare of their motives then you are being foolish or dishonest to all of us including you.
 
How could I attack him on that post when I am talking to him about the same stupid crap in post #112. Like I said, go back and read. I was trying to save you from looking more ignorant than you already do.

I was always told lawyers are good at reading and research. Those folks never met you.
 
Did the three lawyers that don't exist tell you that at the dinner you attended that didn't actually happen?

Tri, not every discussion on this forum revolves around you and your posts. Most of us actually ignore you most of the time. Discussion can take place between other members of the forum without us having to worry about your worthless nonsense.
 
Thanks for the info Elkfromabove,

Man you don't realize what goes into the whole process that's a ton of work.

Thanks again

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-18 AT 09:57AM (MST)[p]>Elkfromabove,
>
>There isn't enough TRANSPARENCY to not
>guess. But I have
>enough experience dealing with government
>agencies to know when they
>contract a job to a
>company that ain't the total
>cost.

Ditto the contract with the Expo Partners! The $1.50 the UDWR gets from the $5.00 application fees ain't all profit either as you claim in post #112. For instances, I recently sent a GRAMA to get a copy of the Expo tag winners from 2007 to 2018. Guess who the GRAMA went to and who emailed the list? And guess who has to clear the Expo winners for duplicate tags and wildlife felonies and pre-purchased licenses. And guess who has to now place them on the public draw OIL permit lists and the DWR website draw history, and guess who prints and mails the permits?
Clue: it ain't the Expo Partners! I'm "guessing" that the
UDWR actually does lose money on the Expo draw. :)
 
>Thanks for the info Elkfromabove,
>
>Man you don't realize what goes
>into the whole process that's
>a ton of work.
>
>Thanks again
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora

You're welcome.

And, of course, I only gave you the obvious tasks on the list, but that isn't all they do. It also includes a LOT of secured data keeping and transferring of funds and customer/hunter info. And with the constant changes being made in Utah hunting regulations, they have to constantly rewrite computer programs. Systems Consultants earn their keep alright!
 
You literally have no clue what profit and loss are. No idea what a gross is or how to calculate a net. These are buzz words like Vanilla says. You heard someone somewhere say them while talking about money and you figured it would help you crap on people if used them.
 
>You literally have no clue what
>profit and loss are.
>No idea what a gross
>is or how to calculate
>a net. These are
>buzz words like Vanilla says.
> You heard someone somewhere
>say them while talking about
>money and you figured it
>would help you crap on
>people if used them.

Everyone knows a gross is 144 and a net is for fishing, LOL! Bring on your next stupid post Tri!
 
Again, you're reading minds/guessing to make your personal attack. You don't know what I know or where I get my information. Remember, you're not the only one who's run/running a business or had to deal with government entities. Please quit making this an emotional shouting match and stick to the subject at hand. If you have information to back up your claims, then let's hear it. Otherwise, I'll just respond to other posters on this thread (or any other thread you happen to get on).
 
You are the one that admitted you are "guessing". I just pointed it out THAT YOU ADMITTED IT. But somehow you want us all to pass judgement on people you hate based on your "guesses"?????? Now you say I must provide you exact figures to prove your guesses are wrong??????? That's not how math works slick. That ain't how business works. THAT'S HOW TEENAGE GIRLS ARGUE. You admitted you "guess".

Fact: You don't know the total cost per applicant to the state. You know how much a subcontracted company charges them to help manage the draw. That is all.

Fact: You don't know how many people would put in for the draw on the 200 tags if they were to go back into the regular draw and therefore you can't even calculate a gross much less a net dollar figure to compare for the state.

Fact: You act like you know this stuff and spread BS all over this website to feed hate.
 
Question elk. What about the money the division gets from the sale of the expo tag. Isn't that money the division also gets besides the $1.50
 
Birdman-

Welcome back. I hope you've been up chasing Kokanees at Strawberry. I would love to hear thoughts and comments regarding the stream access issues as summarized in post 185-187 and 190 above. I assume you have been reading those posts but I am interested in your response. Thanks.

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-18 AT 08:29PM (MST)[p]>Question elk. What about the
>money the division gets from
>the sale of the expo
>tag. Isn't that money
>the division also gets besides
>the $1.50

Yes, they also get the tag money. But that's just money they lose from the regular public draws since that's where the Expo tags come from, so it's not additional profit. And, for that matter, it's also true of any hunting or combo licenses purchased at the Expo.
 
Elk. You are right but then the state benefits from the millions of dollars that come into the economy. That is a high benefit.
Hawkeye. I have stated on stream access. You keep pushing. I told you before I trust you about as far as I can throw you. Anyone who was offered to look at the books and turned it down then Denies it I cannot trust
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-18 AT 09:25PM (MST)[p]Birdman, what does Hawkeye have to do to get that invite to review financials? I'm pretty good at reading financial statements. I'll come too.

And I promise you, you won't be able to come on here and accuse me of refusing the offer if it was made. Because I'll be there.

And, PS, if you're the SFW stream access liaison and your understating is as misconstrued as it appears, your "trust me" claim on Expo spending doesn't carry much weight.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>Elk. You are right but
>then the state benefits from
>the millions of dollars that
>come into the economy.
>That is a high benefit.
>
>
Are you talking about the money that comes strictly from the Expo Permit draw or the money that comes from the Expo as a whole?
 
Your right elk. But then when the expo permits are being talked about so it s the money that comes to the economy. They have usually been oaired.
Griz ask Hawkeye what he if and to do
 
>Your right elk. But then
>when the expo permits are
>being talked about so it
>s the money that comes
>to the economy. They
>have usually been oaired.
> Griz ask Hawkeye
>what he if and to
>do

There's another completely unintelligible post by the Birdman!
 
?And, PS, if you're the SFW stream access liaison and your understating is as misconstrued as it appears, your "trust me" claim on Expo spending doesn't carry much weight.?

^^^ Yup!
 
>You're right elk. But then
>when the expo permits are
>being talked about, so is
>the money that comes
>to the economy. They
>have usually been paired.


I agree that's usually the case. However, I personally think the Expo Permit draw procedure could/should separately be modified to better serve it's original intended purposes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the draw itself was to be used to promote the Expo and bring in the hunting and fishing enthusiasts/public, which of course, it does, thus the millions to the state. But the draw application fees were to be used primarily for conservation and wildlife management and were never meant to help directly finance the Expo nor the promoters. It's this last part that has me and most of the posters concerned. With only 30% ($1.50) returning to the UDWR and no verifiable accountability for the other 70% ($3.50) I just don't see that happening like it should. As a result, I just GRAMA'ed a request for the DWR contract with the WHCE Partners to see if I'm missing anything. I'll let you know what I find out if my request is granted. Meanwhile:

Solutions? Explanations? Comments? Questions?
 
Will vanilla I dont much care what you think. I do know what I am talking about even if you dont believe me. But the if the financials were posted you would say they were fake.
Elk, I guess that $1.50 cant ho too far as the money the DWR spends in getting all your grams requests filled. Maybe they should charge ft. Or them to help pay for them.
 
No, you don't. Your posts and PMs prove that beyond any shadow of a doubt.

I'm sure your well-meaning and trying, but you don't know what you're talking about. The problem is you just won't listen. Listen more, talk less. That is how one learns.
 
"I'm sure your well-meaning and trying, but you don't know what you're talking about. The problem is you just won't listen. Listen more, talk less. That is how one learns."

This comes from a guy whom I literally tried to direct to a previous post so he wouldn't look like a dam idiot and he just talked sheet instead ON THIS SAME THREAD!

Vanilla, shutup! You can't help but type the most self-damming posts time after time.
 
You know vanilla I as m sure you know everything. Just ask you. That's what is great about some of the mm people. On the other hand I know more than you think I do even if you dont want to admit. So you keep pushing all your knowledge as and some bs and keep working on convincing yourself that you are smarter then everyone else. It will make you feel better. In the mean time I will continue to go to meetings that you say teaches the wrong BBC info and we will both be happy.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-18 AT 09:37AM (MST)[p]> Elk, I guess
>that $1.50 cant go too
>far as the money the
>DWR spends in getting all
>your GRAMA requests filled.
>Maybe they should charge
>for them to help pay
>for them.

You never quit trying do you! Apparently, you've never sent a GRAMA request because they do, in fact, charge me (or you if you request one) for them unless I request a waiver based on a presentation to the RAC's or Wildlife Board, which I didn't request this time. In this case, I've requested a $100 limit depending on how they sent it. I'll tell you how many $1.50 DWR Expo returns I saved when I get notice of the costs. They'll take it out of my credit card account like they do everything else.
 
Will elk, when I requested 1 and I only requested one a while back, no charge. But then I dont use them like you do. I am glad you have the money to spend on grams requests. I could not afford to the way you request them.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-18 AT 10:39AM (MST)[p]Birdman-

If you know so much about stream access issue due to your position within SFW and your bi-monthly DWR meetings, comment on the posts up above and tell Grizzly, Vanilla and me where we are off base. We laid our cards on the table, show us yours. It is called a discussion.

And since you continue to claim that SFW offered to show me an accounting of the Expo fees, which is precisely what I have been asking for over the last decade, let me know when and where, and I will be there. How about next Monday morning at 9 a.m., at SFW's offices? Confirm that you will have long-promised accounting ready and I will be there. We all know that you are playing with smoke and mirrors. If SFW had such a document ready and was willing to share it, it would simply post it up on its website. As I said before, that claim is about as true and when you accused me of seeking a high-ranking position within SFW and getting turned down? Or when you claimed that I sought out RMEF in an effort get even with SFW? Where do you get your facts?

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-18 AT 10:35AM (MST)[p]I'm still trying to figure out why Birdman, of all people, would be appointed by the Governor. Yet when you look at the fact we had to choose between Trump and Killary for presidency, it might make sense







"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
And just for the record Birdman, I have had multiple meetings and conversations with SFW leaders over the years, all of which were premised on a request from SFW that I not post the details of our discussions on these internet forums. I have honored that commitment 100% and have not referenced those discussions, who I met with, what was discussed, etc.

For you -- who was never involved in any of those discussions -- to make repeated false claims like you have some type of inside information, is truly pathetic. I will continue to honor the commitments that I made to folks within SFW not to post the details of our discussions but I will say that I have not seen nor been offered the accounting for the Expo fees that was promised long ago.

If you believe that offer was previously made then step up and honor it today.

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
Because he was nominated by SFW.

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
>Will elk, when I requested
>1 and I only requested
>one a while back, no
>charge. But then I
>dont use them like you
>do. I am glad
>you have the money to
>spend on grams requests.
>I could not afford to
>the way you request them.
>

You never quit trying! I've requested a total of 3 GRAMA's in my lifetime and all of them since I joined UWC in 2012. And so far I've only paid postage for one of them. So, yes, you could afford them if the actual truth was important enough to you.
 
Bird, I'm definitely not smarter than everyone. I've never claimed to be. But on stream access, there aren't many more well versed. I've been involved from day one. That's almost 10 years now.

I've read and studied every brief filed. I've literally read every single word involved in this issue in the courts. I was physically present for oral arguments. I saw the facial expressions of the justices and attorneys. I know the follow up questions Justice Lee posed after oral argument that has delayed the decision. I know the arguments both sides made in response to those questions.

You go to the Blue Ribbon meetings and talk about what might be coming in the future, like all the rivers and streams around the state that the Weber decision will impact, but when you say the Provo case is about navigability and if it will float a 6 inch log, it just shows you don't understand. It's simply not about that issue at all.

So while I readily admit there are a billion people smarter than me, there aren't many more well-versed on this specific issue than me. I've put in the time over almost 10 years now. I look forward to seeing where we go after the Supreme Court makes their ruling public. I hope you landowners learn from your friends on the Weber.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-18 AT 09:38PM (MST)[p]Will vanilla, I think I am well versed in it to. Hawk, Blue ribbon is not something where a organization nominates someone two. Good try.
 
Perhaps you were selected for your vast knowledge of stream access issues and firm commitment to public access rights?

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
Funny hawk. I would bet a matter what SFW says you would go against them because that is your goal to see them gone. Can I make a suggestion that being step back and look at all the overhaul set up and forget about SFW and look at the other things that are going on. Look up beyond going issues that are going on in this state. It could be scary. Now I have explained my issues on stream access and I'm going to stick by it. I have nothing more to say on the issue because it doesn't matter what I say you guys wouldn't believe it. Besides that Hawkeye you seem to know everything that there is about people on different groups and how they get there which is totally false but that's OK I understand you know what all.
 
You think you're well-versed on the topic, but you also think the Provo case is about floating 6 inch logs.

So....
 
>You think you're well-versed on the
>topic, but you also think
>the Provo case is about
>floating 6 inch logs.
>
>So....

Same ole same ole with Birdman that says he knows most everything that is going on because of being "in the know" regarding meetings he attends and the FACT that there is no way any of the "higher ups" in SFW aren't completely on the up and up, but when he is asked to state facts to back up his side of any discussion none are ever forthcoming and he just tells everyone like in his last posts that all we're interested in is seeing that SFW is gone, which is certainly not true in any way, shape, or form!
 
Back to the OP:

I think we should scrap the whole Expo Permit system as it now stands and just let the DWR buy a booth at the Expo like everyone else and conduct a special 200 permit PUBLIC second chance drawing out of that booth with a $10.00 application fee.

The only differences between the Expo public drawing and the regular public drawings would be that points aren't used nor given, the applicant still has to validate the application in person on site, there are no waiting periods for the LE tags (but the OIL rule applies for OIL tags, ie: only one drawn OIL tag in a lifetime), and hunters can apply once for all Expo tags (except OIL species if they have drawn one already). Otherwise, the applicant still has to be of age, have a valid hunting license, be eligible for a public drawing, limited to only one tag per species per year, and limited to only one Expo tag per year.

The applicants could be screened by the DWR at the time of the application instead of after the drawing like they do now and the drawing could be conducted by either the Nevada company (Systems Consultants) or the local company that currently does it for SFW. The odds of both drawings are about the same, the Expo drawing would still bring in the public. The Expo would still be supported by the public, the state and county Offices of Tourism and the local businesses. The Expo Partners and the Salt Palace would still have the shows, auctions, ticket fees, booth fees, food vendors, entertainment, parking fees, etc. And we could eliminate the trouble we had with the contract negotiations and the call for transparency.

I'm sure there's some things I missed, but I think we could work out any bugs much easier with the DWR than with SFW/MDF.

What say ye?
 
>Back to the OP:
>
>I think we should scrap the
>whole Expo Permit system as
>it now stands and just
>let the DWR buy a
>booth at the Expo like
>everyone else and conduct a
>special 200 permit PUBLIC second
>chance drawing out of that
>booth with a $10.00 application
>fee.
>
>The only differences between the Expo
>public drawing and the regular
>public drawings would be that
>points aren't used nor given,
>the applicant still has to
>validate the application in person
>on site, there are no
>waiting periods for the LE
>tags (but the OIL rule
>applies for OIL tags, ie:
>only one drawn OIL tag
>in a lifetime), and hunters
>can apply once for all
>Expo tags (except OIL species
>if they have drawn one
>already). Otherwise, the applicant still
>has to be of age,
>have a valid hunting license,
>be eligible for a public
>drawing, limited to only one
>tag per species per year,
>and limited to only one
>Expo tag per year.
>
>The applicants could be screened by
>the DWR at the time
>of the application instead of
>after the drawing like they
>do now and the drawing
>could be conducted by either
>the Nevada company (Systems Consultants)
>or the local company that
>currently does it for SFW.
>The odds of both drawings
>are about the same, the
>Expo drawing would still bring
>in the public. The Expo
>would still be supported by
>the public, the state and
>county Offices of Tourism and
>the local businesses. The Expo
>Partners and the Salt Palace
>would still have the shows,
>auctions, ticket fees, booth fees,
>food vendors, entertainment, parking fees,
>etc. And we could eliminate
>the trouble we had with
>the contract negotiations and the
>call for transparency.
>
>I'm sure there's some things I
>missed, but I think we
>could work out any bugs
>much easier with the DWR
>than with SFW/MDF.
>
>What say ye?


Sounds like a very good solution, but SFW will never go with that voluntarily and lose that one million dollars a year they make on average for their cut of the raffle tickets!
 
Wouldn't ever work elk. The 8 SFW haters on this website would cry for 5 years straight that they aren't getting a "full accounting" of what the state spent on the booth at the show.
 
>Wouldn't ever work elk. The
>8 SFW haters on this
>website would cry for 5
>years straight that they aren't
>getting a "full accounting" of
>what the state spent on
>the booth at the show.
>


You truly are an idiot.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-18 AT 09:44PM (MST)[p]>E. This entire discussion relates
>to efforts to improve the
>broken expo tag process.

>-Hawkeye-


Long (winded) discussion with a simple solution: end the expo tag program in its entirety.

Not sure why UT thinks it needs SFW administering this tag program to generate conservation money when every other western state does just fine without it and offers way more hunt opportunity than UT does.
 
>Dance monkey. Dance.


Looks like i get under your skin some how. I bet you didnt sleep again last night stewing over how you get owned on here by your enemy and the evil one Hawkeye. Keep at big guy. You might get it one day.
 
Actually I spent a weekend doing habitat restoration for deer. That's right some people actually work to make things better for future generations instead of crying like teenage girls for a decade on an internet forum.

Seemingly grown men who sit on the internet whining about the same stupid big game tags for a decade and to stupid to realize they are screwing their own kids get under my skin.
 
Actually I ran a bobcat doing yaupon removal on a low fenced ranch that over a dozen kids get access to year round including deer hunting for free. They can hunt dove, ducks, hogs, varmints, and deer. I killed my first deer there when I was twelve and its my responsibility, and others, to make sure kids keep getting to kill their first deer there.

In September I will make sure the corn feeders are running. :D
 
Wow! Tri ran a bobcat for part of a weekend so 12 kids can hunt on a ranch that still probably charges an arm and a leg for adults to hunt on if it's even open for them! Now back to gluing eyeballs in manikins, LOL!
 
Actually no one is charged anything to hunt on this property.

I run the bobcat a couple of times a year. Volunteers fix deer stands one weekend a year. I am building two new deer stands right now. I will have to build two new feeders this year and repair two others. We are implementing a brush management plan that we are three years into. We are hoping after four years of mechanical management we can start doing prescribed burns. We are also hoping to develop better habitat so one day eastern turkey will reestablish in the area.

It's a lot of work every year but it's much more productive than sitting on the internet crying like a teenage girl for some big game tags for ten years.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-18 AT 03:02AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-17-18 AT 11:26?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Aug-17-18 AT 11:18?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Aug-17-18 AT 11:08?PM (MST)

So, I received an answer to my GRAMA request (at least to 1/2 of it) in the form of an electronic copy of the latest UDWR contract with Systems Consultants out of Fallon NV.

I won't post a link to my email on this forum nor will I give you the full last pages of all of the draws, but here's the bottom lines:

-Total cost of the Bucks (2018 Big Game/Dedicated Hunter) Statement
of Work will not exceed------------------------------------------------------------$1,420,004.00

-Total cost of the Antlerless (2018) Statement of Work will not exceed ---------$206,454.00

-Total cost of the Bear (2018) Statement of Work will not exceed-----------------$55,627.00

-Total cost of the Cougar (2018) Statement of Work will not exceed-------------$20,750.00

-Total cost of the Turkey (2018) Statement 0f Work will not exceed--------------$45,429.00

-Total cost or this (2018 Sand Hill Crane, Swan, Sage Grouse, Sharp Tail)
Statement of Work will not exceed--------------------------------------------------$35,572.00

-Total cost of the Sportsman (2018-2019) Statement of Work will not
exceed-------------------------------------------------------------------------------$169,377.00

-Total cost of the (2018) telephone license sales will not exceed------------------$61,728.00



TOTAL = $2,014,901.00 (No guess needed per post 188!)

And, FWIW, the amount now paid to Systems Consultants is $2.53 per application which is $.48 LESS than the first year (2014) of this 5-year contract with yearly amendments which means that the UDWR now keeps $7.47 instead of the $6.99 I quoted earlier.

Edited to line up numbers and clarify the length of the contract.
 
Look everybody elkfromabove discovered numbers. He doesn't know how to use them but he knows what they are.
 
>Look everybody elkfromabove discovered numbers.
>He doesn't know how to
>use them but he knows
>what they are.

So says Tri, the Aggie who supposedly has a fancy degree in Biology from there and the career he ended up in is gluing eyeballs in manikins, LOL!
 
>>Look everybody elkfromabove discovered numbers.
>>He doesn't know how to
>>use them but he knows
>>what they are.
>
>So says Tri, the Aggie who
>supposedly has a fancy degree
>in Biology from there and
>the career he ended up
>in is gluing eyeballs in
>manikins, LOL!


So Top, I'm guessing being a taxidermist is as about as low as gets?
 
Gentlemen, stay on track!
This thread is not about people, it's about an idea that could replace the current Expo Permit Program to the better benefit of ALL stakeholders including the animals and the general hunting public. My update of the contract shows that the UDWR is receiving more money per application than they were for 2014. If they use it wisely, we'll increase opportunity.

The UDWR now retains nearly 75% of your general public draw application fee, but receives only 30% of your Expo draw application fee. IMO, the Expo draw application fee proportions need to change to at least match the general public draw proportions.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-18 AT 12:09PM (MST)[p]>>>Look everybody elkfromabove discovered numbers.
>>>He doesn't know how to
>>>use them but he knows
>>>what they are.
>>
>>So says Tri, the Aggie who
>>supposedly has a fancy degree
>>in Biology from there and
>>the career he ended up
>>in is gluing eyeballs in
>>manikins, LOL!
>
>
>So Top, I'm guessing being a
>taxidermist is as about as
>low as gets?


Nope, not at all! However, I doubt that there are very many guys that graduated from a top college with a degree in game biology as Tri says he has and that have ended up gluing eyeballs for a living and then are dumb enough that when they talk numbers chastising others use "%5" that way, is all I'm saying!
 
>Gentlemen, stay on track!
>This thread is not about people,
>it's about an idea that
>could replace the current Expo
>Permit Program to the better
>benefit of ALL stakeholders including
>the animals and the general
>hunting public. My update of
>the contract shows that the
>UDWR is receiving more money
>per application than they were
>for 2014. If they use
>it wisely, we'll increase opportunity.
>
>
>The UDWR now retains nearly 75%
>of your general public draw
>application fee, but receives only
>30% of your Expo draw
>application fee. IMO, the Expo
>draw application fee proportions need
>to change to at least
>match the general public draw
>proportions.

Sorry, but that's what happens when the site owner continues to allow the moron from Houston to interject his stupid posts on every serious thread and all they are intended to do is disrupt and ruin the thread. You have made several great points, but until the people in Utah unite and throw all the SFW Board members out and discontinue to allow DP to run the state then you'll continue to have threads like this and others discussing the way SFW has made a mockery of the political system that runs the DWR to the detriment of most average citizens.
 
Top, why wouldn't Founder want threads like this? He gets paid for every page view. How many times have you opened this single thread? Tri is his biggest money maker! (And you help a lot too.)
 
>Top, why wouldn't Founder want threads
>like this? He gets paid
>for every page view. How
>many times have you opened
>this single thread? Tri is
>his biggest money maker! (And
>you help a lot too.)
>

I've thought of that exact reason before and figured it must be the case. However, BuzzH was a great member and added a lot to the threads, but got banned for quite a while for a lot less stuff than what Tri does and I was also warned that I'd be next if I didn't behave! Yep, I help and should probably get a cut of the profits Brian makes, LOL!
 
The Expo tags program needs to end. Simple as that. Somehow, all the other western states seem to be able to generate the revenues they need, just can't explain why they can and UT cannot...
 
If your big game numbers are falling and your hunting opportunity is falling, which it is in almost every western state then its highly likely your wildlife agencies aren't getting all the funds they need.

If you know a state biologist go talk to him or her. More than likely they have great ideas for projects the state needs to do that would benefit hunters and wildlife but the answer is the same year after year. NOT ENOUGH MONEY. That's the truth.

Come up with a better reason to get rid of the system if that's what you want but don't BS people about "transparency".
 
>If your big game numbers are
>falling and your hunting opportunity
>is falling, which it is
>in almost every western state
>then its highly likely your
>wildlife agencies aren't getting all
>the funds they need.
>
>If you know a state biologist
>go talk to him or
>her. More than likely
>they have great ideas for
>projects the state needs to
>do that would benefit hunters
>and wildlife but the answer
>is the same year after
>year. NOT ENOUGH MONEY.
> That's the truth.
>
>Come up with a better reason
>to get rid of the
>system if that's what you
>want but don't BS people
>about "transparency".


(Individual) hunting opportunity is falling in NM because of the increase in applications, not because of mismanagement or lack of funds.

If there is a lack of funds, there are poor politics at play...

I'm quite certain this has been discussed before to the point the dead horse has been buried multiple times, but just why did RMEF not get awarded the expo?
 
Here is a way to help solve all the problems. There is an opening of an assistant director for Utah dwr. You guys need to pick someone to apply and then the rest write letters of recommendation for him. Then you have someone who can fix things.
 
>Here is a way to help
>solve all the problems.
>There is an opening of
>an assistant director for Utah
>dwr. You guys need
>to pick someone to apply
>and then the rest write
>letters of recommendation for him.
> Then you have someone
>who can fix things.


That's all well and good Birdman, BUT with the SFW controlling the Board that oversees the DWR the guy would go nuts in short order if he got the job! You can also just about bet anything you want to that there will be an in house promotion to that job spot or somebody on the outside with SFW ties will get it.
 
That's really a great answer but you show how much you really dont know what goes on. Its also a great excuse why you guys dont want to solve problems. It is true you have no knowledge of what goes on. You sit on here slamming others, right now tri as to what he knows when the truth of the matter is he is smarter than you on the issues. Oh wait, you know all. Your so good you can predict all.
 
"But, but, but........ but."



Watch'em squirm!


Yall are actually terrified of doing the tiniest bit of real work in an effort to solve your dilemma.


Like I said before. You don't care about conservation or big game. It's just little kid hissy fits for big game tags.
 
>That's really a great answer but
>you show how much you
>really dont know what goes
>on. Its also a
>great excuse why you guys
>dont want to solve problems.
>It is true you have
>no knowledge of what goes
>on. You sit on
>here slamming others, right now
>tri as to what he
>knows when the truth of
>the matter is he is
>smarter than you on the
>issues. Oh wait, you
>know all. Your so
>good you can predict all.
>

So it appears you're saying that a person already in the DWR won't move up and take that spot and that the SFW doesn't hold the power on the Board with the number of people they have now managed to get on there? What friggin state do you live in and here I thought you said with your position in the SFWthat you know everything going on, LOL! If what I mentioned isn't true, then how did SFW get the EXPO bid over the RMEF that was ten times as good? Answer that one MR, Genius! Now you're saying that Tri is in the know when he knows jack chit about nothing other than maybe how to glue eyeballs in manikins, LOL! How about YOU tell is who will get the job and why what I said won't come true. I'm just asking the great guru of Utah that is right there in the SFW trenches and knows more than anyone else in the state or country, especially on stream access issues, LOL! I'm going to laugh all the way to the bank when the position is filled and you have to eat crow one way or the other because I'm right!
 
"ten times as good"

Is that a scientific figure?


How will Birdman have to eat crow when the position is filled. YOU, or one of the other haters, HAVE TO TRY AND GET THE APPOINTMENT AND WE KNOW YOU CAN'T GET OFF YOUR BUTTS FOR THAT.

You talk big Topgun about people eating crow all the while you are getting served plates of humble pie.


Post after post you and others call me a troll and question why I haven't been kicked off of here. All the while you and the other haters hi-jack thread after thread after thread just to spew uneducated half truths and all out bull about this garbage. Nobody sits and cries about "why hasn't topgun, hawkeye, robiland, vanilla, etc...." been kicked off for their constant childish whining. Nope we treat yall just like any other American with a hateful and contemptuous voice. Just another mild annoyance we have to put up with while the rest of us contribute to something greater.


I know this post won't mean anything to you. And I know next month there will be some other thread yall will hijack and turn into BS "transparency" war against SFW. I can't speak for Birdman but I imagine, similar to me, he will actually be doing something to help your kids and grandkids get to enjoy the outdoors while you sit on your butt giving pansy girl excuses for why you aren't man enough to make a difference in this world.
 
>"ten times as good"
>
>Is that a scientific figure?
>
>
>How will Birdman have to eat
>crow when the position is
>filled. YOU, or one
>of the other haters, HAVE
>TO TRY AND GET THE
>APPOINTMENT AND WE KNOW YOU
>CAN'T GET OFF YOUR BUTTS
>FOR THAT.
>
>You talk big Topgun about people
>eating crow all the while
>you are getting served plates
>of humble pie.
>
>
>Post after post you and others
>call me a troll and
>question why I haven't been
>kicked off of here.
>All the while you and
>the other haters hi-jack thread
>after thread after thread just
>to spew uneducated half truths
>and all out bull about
>this garbage. Nobody sits
>and cries about "why hasn't
>topgun, hawkeye, robiland, vanilla, etc...."
>been kicked off for their
>constant childish whining. Nope
>we treat yall just like
>any other American with a
>hateful and contemptuous voice.
>Just another mild annoyance we
>have to put up with
>while the rest of us
>contribute to something greater.
>
>
>I know this post won't mean
>anything to you. And
>I know next month there
>will be some other thread
>yall will hijack and turn
>into BS "transparency" war against
>SFW. I can't speak
>for Birdman but I imagine,
>similar to me, he will
>actually be doing something to
>help your kids and grandkids
>get to enjoy the outdoors
>while you sit on your
>butt giving pansy girl excuses
>for why you aren't man
>enough to make a difference
>in this world.

Would you like me to say that the RMEF bid was %100 better than the SFW bid so yall can understand what I said, LOL!
 
Like I said to, you have no idea how it all works. Do you really think the wildlife board decides on positions in the dwr? Is that what your saying. Another stupid statement by top gun. You dont know crap.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-18 AT 05:29PM (MST)[p]Excuse me. I forget topgun news it all. Bringing in the best is the idea. Would not surprise me if an out of state person was brought in. According to topgun, SFW will have to give their ok. Mule deer I guess also since they are part of the expo.
 
>Like I said to, you have
>no idea how it all
>works. Do you really
>think the wildlife board decides
>on positions in the dwr?
> Is that what your
>saying. Another stupid statement
>by top gun. You
>dont know crap.


Again your reading comprehension sucks because I never said that! I said with the SFW controlling the Board the guy would never be able to accomplish anything positive even if he got the position and wanted to make necessary positive changes. I never said a thing about them approving or disapproving the appointment, but I'd bet they would be right in there telling the DWR people who they wanted or didn't want in the position and you can take that to the bank. You need to stick to your fishing knowledge on stream access Ken. Oops, I forgot that you also suck at that too, as you really got schooled by Vanilla and Hawkeye on that and still won't admit you are wrong on just about everything you posted on that subject!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-18 AT 06:35PM (MST)[p]>Excuse me. I forget topgun
>news it all. Bringing
>in the best is the
>idea. Would not surprise
>me if an out of
>state person was brought in.
> According to topgun, SFW
>will have to give their
>ok. Mule deer I guess
>also since they are part
>of the expo.


How can anyone take you seriously when your spelling and incoherent attempt at sentences makes you look like you're in grade school?! I don't "news it all", but I sure know how to spell and put sentences together that people can read and understand unlike yourself and that post was a good example. What in the heck does that last attempt at a sentence mean? Maybe you should have your wife start writing everything for you like you said she does other stuff for you so we know it's the English language we're reading!
 
You see top. You work things to fit you. Sorry to say SFW does not gave any say nor do they get involved
As far as stream access goes, I'll stick by what I said. When all is said and done it will show I know m pi re than you think. Just finished a meeting with Attorneys the other day. I'll stand by my past statements. Oh wait a min. Top knows all. Tell me top h ok w ou s it as LLC going to end
 
>You see top. You work
>things to fit you. Sorry
>to say SFW does not
>gave any say nor do
>they get involved
> As far as stream
>access goes, I'll stick by
>what I said. When
>all is said and done
>it will show I know
>m pi re than you
>think. Just finished a
>meeting with Attorneys the
>other day. I'll stand
>by my past statements.
>Oh wait a min.
>Top knows all. Tell
>me top h ok w
>ou s it as LLC
>going to end

Well there is another typical unintelligible post by the Birdman! I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you since you can't make one single post that makes any sense. This was one of your worst ever because I have not a clue as to what you said in that garbled up mess of a post, especially the last comment if that's even what it was, LOL!!!
 
>If your big game numbers are
>falling and your hunting opportunity
>is falling, which it is
>in almost every western state
>then its highly likely your
>wildlife agencies aren't getting all
>the funds they need.
>
>If you know a state biologist
>go talk to him or
>her. More than likely
>they have great ideas for
>projects the state needs to
>do that would benefit hunters
>and wildlife but the answer
>is the same year after
>year. NOT ENOUGH MONEY.
> That's the truth.
>
>Come up with a better reason
>to get rid of the
>system if that's what you
>want but don't BS people
>about "transparency".

What a joke. If your defense of these expo tags is the critical need of funds for the State...then how in the hell do you defend the SFW bid which only guarantees 30% of funds to the State over RMEF's bid which guaranteed 100%?
 
Wow, not sure if I should be happy, proud, embarrassed, prideful, guilty or what, to be lumped with some names of people that actually do care about what is going on here in UTAH. Myabe i have gotten under your skin a bit. Maybe you know I shoot bigger deer than you. (You brought this up for some reason). Jealousy is a bad thing, it leads to anger, anger leads to evil.

If Skippy here only knew the amount of time spent trying to make changes for the better of WILDLIFE in UTAH by these men, he would shut his pie hole.

And Birdman, you should really stop. You are not helping your cause or the DWR or SFW. You've dug a hole so deep, you're dang near to China.
 
Probably because there is more to a bid than that number.


Case in point the highway bid in front of my house was picked off of one number. Six years later the highway is a torn up mess costing businesses in the area billions of dollars, the construction company is bankrupt and there is no end in sight. You pick a bid based on one single characteristic and you will get what you paid for.
 
Hahahahahahahaha.

I knew I'd jerk you back here with that one. Dance monkey. DANCE!

If you think those internet crybabies do great for your wildlife you have really low expectations.

Hey how old a buck you killing this year? 10? No? Maybe 12? Maybe you'll get that 15 year old forky you've been after. You know when they get that old they start looking like babies again.
 
>Probably because there is more to
>a bid than that number.
>
>
>
>Case in point the highway bid
>in front of my house
>was picked off of one
>number. Six years later
>the highway is a torn
>up mess costing businesses in
>the area billions of dollars,
>the construction company is bankrupt
>and there is no end
>in sight. You pick
>a bid based on one
>single characteristic and you will
>get what you paid for.
>

So your argument is RMEF - who has been around a heck of a lot longer, has more members, more success stories, more professional staff, more experience raising funds for wildlife, substantially more outreach...and the list could go on...- but your argument is they would not be able to raise at least as much as SFW from those tags (not even counting the fact they commit to 100% return)? In what universe do you live that there is a credible argument against RMEF?

I would buy your argument if the bid came from joe schmoe and his cousin.
 
My argument is you have one proven local group you have dealt with and you know what to expect bidding against unproven outsiders. You are going to save money alone dealing local. plus there is more to a bid than just a single dollar figure. Did you read the bids? Did you read the state decision? I did. They based their decision on several factors. Not just one.


Do you know how many times I have had new vendors come to me with deals to good to be true? Wanting me to jump ship from a local vendor that has done right by me for years? Do you know how often I see later they burned other businesses I know and subsequently folded?

I understand you probably don't understand business. You probably think McDonald's burgers are the same as In and Out Burger but McDonalds is way cheaper so they are the better deal. Right?
 
Hey Fat Boy, how old a buck you going to shoot this year? Before you can worry about how old of a buck, you need to first go beg yo massa for permission. Squirm worm squirm.

The only thing that illiterate fool birdman is going to leave his kids and grand kids is a legacy of privatized water, privatized land and privatized wildlife. His grand kids will be begging their massas for permission to hunt just like you fat boy.
 
Try,

like always you didn't answer the question. Squirm worm squirm.


Try, I'm in absolute awe of all your hunting photos that you post.


Btw Try, why did you take down your Wade Lemon, his guides and that skank from TexASS are sheep poachers thread?

Blaaaaam!!!!!!
 
>My argument is you have one
>proven local group you have
>dealt with and you know
>what to expect bidding
>against unproven outsiders. You
>are going to save money
>alone dealing local. plus
>there is more to a
>bid than just a single
>dollar figure. Did you
>read the bids? Did
>you read the state decision?
> I did. They
>based their decision on several
>factors. Not just one.
>
>
>
>Do you know how many times
>I have had new vendors
>come to me with deals
>to good to be true?
> Wanting me to jump
>ship from a local vendor
>that has done right by
>me for years? Do
>you know how often I
>see later they burned other
>businesses I know and subsequently
>folded?
>
>I understand you probably don't understand
>business. You probably think
>McDonald's burgers are the same
>as In and Out Burger
>but McDonalds is way cheaper
>so they are the better
>deal. Right?

The decision was rooted in corruption and people should be in jail for mismanaging public resources.

Again, your vendor argument is a joke...RMEF is not some new, out of the blue vendor. They are a superior, vastly more trusted, transparent, and qualified organization when it comes to raising funds for wildlife conservation. SFW only really operates in one state because all the rest see what a cancer they are. RMEF has a big presence in all western states and across the US.

Until you can figure out 100% is more than 30% you can spare me on how great your business acumen is...fraud is where you seem to have expertise.
 
Like the rest of these haters you run to the B's argument of corruption. Why don't you contact the FBI and turn them in??? Somehow you and a half dozen internet sleuths have the goods on them but not a single regulatory or police agency can find any evidence of this corruption you speak of?????? You are living in drama fantasy land. Reality doesn't work how you think it does.

Go read the bids, the decision, run a business, and then maybe, just maybe, you can unstick your head from the hole it is stuck in.
 
Will towel, tell me what you are doing for wildlife in Utah. Your gr res st st making fun of people. One thing for sure, I am involved in Yrsh wildlife. I am not sitting back bitching about what is going on but I am getting in the trenches working to get things done. It's a hell of a lot better than complaining about what others do.
 
Robiland. Difference between you as and I is I am hands on. I will not sit back and m as ke fun if others trying to do good. I dont care one bit about people shooting bigger elk, deer, catching bigger fish etc. You dont measure a good hunt with a tape measure, but with the memories made.
 
If SFW is so great why have they been rejected in every state but Utah? Yet RMEF is well established in every state?

Hint...its because far more than a half dozen internet sleuths see the corruption...more like the majority of sportsmen in all western states can see the fraud and abuse.
 
You keep saying your assumed opinion but you can't figure out why all the taxing authorities, regulatory agencies, and federal investigators never seem to have a problem with them. YOU KEEP OVERLOOKING THAT FACT. But you accuse them of corruption.

Maybe you actually don't know what that word means.


By the way I never sat here and told you SFW is "so great". Get your spit straight. I told you they won a bid which you haven't the time nor mental capacity to read.
 
>Robiland. Difference between you as
>and I is I am
>hands on. I will
>not sit back and m
>as ke fun if others
>trying to do good.
>I dont care one bit
>about people shooting bigger elk,
>deer, catching bigger fish etc.
> You dont measure a
>good hunt with a tape
>measure, but with the memories
>made.


Birdman,

this is proof that you have not read or can not or will not read what others have said. Your boy Trystick keeps asking why I kill baby deer. I asked him a few times where this keeps coming from. But of course, he doesnt answer. And he doesnt read what others say. just keeps popping away at sweet nothings.

And what is your hands on difference between you and me? I sit because you have a better title than me? Not sure where you get this either. I teach plenty of youth fishing and shooting skills all the time. IN fact, I am taking a group of kids Fishing this Friday. It will be their 1st time for all of them. The parents of these kids are way excited to see the kids get out. Just last week on the archery opener, I took a few hours on saturday and invited a kid and dad to camp that were struggling with archery set ups (BUT STILL OUT HUNTING) and worked with the kid and his form and tweaked the bows for both of them to where they were shooting WAY better, even out to 50 yards. Both were happy campers after that.

So does this help me be better "HANDS ON"? or do I need to have a title?
 

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