NM Bighorn outfitter pool

M

muleyman99

Member
Messages
17
Who are you applying with for the outfitter pool for Bighorns? I would like to apply wife, son, & myself in the outfitter pool. Recommendations please!! Thanks
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-18 AT 05:54AM (MST)[p]>>I'd recommend applying with an outfitter
>>that has experience hunting bighorn
>>sheep ?
>
>+1 to that


GT Nunn with Frontier Outfitting is one of the best and most experienced sheep guys you will find. Look at his website and you will see what I am talking about.
 
GT Nunn with Frontier and Bill Lewellen with One on One are the best sheep guys in the state hands down. Can't go wrong with either of them.
 
GT Nuun frontier outfitters,Mick chapel ,Jfwrc kill good rams.usually a good BHS outfitter you got to go find.they won't find you . That's a red flag.
 
Just a heads up to all of you.

Be sure to ask any outfitter you are researching if they have the State and Federal Permits necessary to allow them to guide you on these lands. There have been some nightmare situations out there where the hunter found out days before the hunt that his outfitter can't take them because they don't have a commercial BLM or USFS permit. It takes a while to get these and established outfitters have either a priority or temporary permit that allows them to operate.

Jim
www.newmexicobiggamehunting.com

Our link to Sheep Hunts is below:
https://www.newmexicobiggamehunting.com/hunt/new-mexico-bighorn-sheep-barbary-sheep-hunts/
 
Gentlemen, thank you for the help. I understand and agree that the correct sheep guide is important. I appreciate your thoughts/experience on this manner.
 
Thanks, I was applying with Bill for years. However when he decided to charge $25 per species to ?utilize? his outfitter number I decided to move on. I am fine with him charging what the market bears, however I am not willing to pay him $75 a year for sheep applications for a less than 1% chance. Thus the need to find a new sheep outfitter. Thanks for the reply.
 
Jordan from a3 new mexico, knows nm sheep and works extremely hard for his clients. And he doesn't charge you for his outfit number
 
The outfitter requirements changed in NM this year. So it probably costs him a bit for you to apply. I believe a contract has to be in place.
 
Contracts always have to be signed before applying. An applicant who is a NR is already forking out a decent amount just to apply,I can't see paying a non refundable app fee to an OF. ESPECIALLY when your odd of drawing is under 1%, that's basically a donation.
 
+1 I agree 100%. I have been signing the contract for years. I am happy to sign a contract. However there is not expense to emailing me the same contract year after year to apply for a hunt with a <1% draw odd. Of which if drawn I would pay $9K for. Thus the need to help identify a new outfitter to both apply with and be contractually obligated to for a large sum of money on the potential hunt of a lifetime! I am happy to pay for a hunt, however not a $25/fee for each species that is then x's 3 hunters. That add's up! Thanks for the posts guys, I appreciate the help. Deadline is approaching.
 
I hunted with Kiowa hunting service last year for oryx and during our hunt I talked to Tim about sheep hunting. His son was out guiding a sheep hunt at the time of my hunt and after my hunt was over our guide went to help on the sheep hunt. So he sent out another guide, no charge to the client to help, this impressed me. I would recommend giving him a call and see what units he specializes in. I've also seen a few sheep hunters on this site that have used Kiowa in the past. Maybe they will chime in.
 
Can?t you apply by yourself then hire Bill if you draw ? Him and his outfit is the one for sheep in NM !!
If you ever do draw you want the odds stacked in your favor. Old saying....You get what you pay for. Good luck.
 
Thanks a lot foldem, I appreciate the comment. I will follow up with him. You obviousely had a good hunt with them. Any pics? I plan on applying with them for oryx/ibex both.


I hunted with Kiowa hunting service last year for oryx and during our hunt I talked to Tim about sheep hunting. His son was out guiding a sheep hunt at the time of my hunt and after my hunt was over our guide went to help on the sheep hunt. So he sent out another guide, no charge to the client to help, this impressed me. I would recommend giving him a call and see what units he specializes in. I've also seen a few sheep hunters on this site that have used Kiowa in the past. Maybe they will chime in.
 
>Can?t you apply by yourself then
>hire Bill if you draw
>? Him and his outfit
>is the one for sheep
>in NM !!
>If you ever do draw you
>want the odds stacked in
>your favor. Old
>saying....You get what you pay
>for. Good luck.

Not if you want to be in the Guide Draw. I use JFW Ranch Consulting for my sheep applications.
 
>Thanks, I was applying with Bill
>for years. However when he
>decided to charge $25 per
>species to ?utilize? his outfitter
>number I decided to move
>on. I am fine with
>him charging what the market
>bears, however I am not
>willing to pay him $75
>a year for sheep applications
>for a less than 1%
>chance. Thus the need to
>find a new sheep outfitter.
>Thanks for the reply.


SAME - applied with him the last couple years, am not paying him to apply.

ALSO - for GTNUNN - READ HIS CONTRACT before you sign it.

I did and there's some language in there I cant' abide by. Like he legally retains the rights to all pictures and video of the hunt. Even though its your tag and your ram and your pictures and you paid him. Legally, his media. Unless he has changed it.

I objected and asked him to amend it and he told me to get bent.

SO - even though both those mentioned are great on the mountain, I put in with KIOWA also since I'm doing ibex and oryx with them also.
 
>ALSO - for GTNUNN - READ
>HIS CONTRACT before you sign
>it.
>
>I did and there's some language
>in there I cant' abide
>by. Like he legally
>retains the rights to all
>pictures and video of the
>hunt. Even though
>its your tag and your
>ram and your pictures and
>you paid him. Legally,
>his media. Unless he
>has changed it.
>
>I objected and asked him to
>amend it and he told
>me to get bent.


>
>SO - even though both
>those mentioned are great on
>the mountain, I put in
>with KIOWA also since I'm
>doing ibex and oryx with
>them also.


Hello all. I am here to speak for G.T Nunn and Frontier Outfitting to provide some clarification on the statement and incorrect interpretation of the contract by DoeNob stated above

By stating in the contract that Frontier Outfitting reserves the rights to photos or videos taken during the hunt, this is only meaning that we can use any photos from the hunt for advertising purposes such as brochures, publications, websites, or social media. This does not mean you are not allowed to take whatever photos or videos you want during your hunt and take them home and enjoy them with your friends and family or whatever you see fit. It is purely a statement that Frontier Outfitting reserves the right to be able to use photos from your hunt for advertising purposes. As many people know, we have taken a lot of great Bighorn Sheep in this state and made some awesome memories for clients and have never had an issue with clients and the right to use their photos.

I normally don't post in these forums but just thought I would try to provide an explanation

Good luck in the draw.
 
>
>>ALSO - for GTNUNN - READ
>>HIS CONTRACT before you sign
>>it.
>>
>>I did and there's some language
>>in there I cant' abide
>>by. Like he legally
>>retains the rights to all
>>pictures and video of the
>>hunt. Even though
>>its your tag and your
>>ram and your pictures and
>>you paid him. Legally,
>>his media. Unless he
>>has changed it.
>>
>>I objected and asked him to
>>amend it and he told
>>me to get bent.
>
>
>>
>>SO - even though both
>>those mentioned are great on
>>the mountain, I put in
>>with KIOWA also since I'm
>>doing ibex and oryx with
>>them also.
>
>
>Hello all. I am here to
>speak for G.T Nunn and
>Frontier Outfitting to provide some
>clarification on the statement and
>incorrect interpretation of the contract
>by DoeNob stated above
>
>By stating in the contract that
>Frontier Outfitting reserves the rights
>to photos or videos taken
>during the hunt, this is
>only meaning that we can
>use any photos from the
>hunt for advertising purposes such
>as brochures, publications, websites, or
>social media. This does not
>mean you are not allowed
>to take whatever photos or
>videos you want during your
>hunt and take them home
>and enjoy them with your
>friends and family or whatever
>you see fit. It is
>purely a statement that Frontier
>Outfitting reserves the right to
>be able to use photos
>from your hunt for advertising
>purposes. As many people know,
>we have taken a lot
>of great Bighorn Sheep in
>this state and made some
>awesome memories for clients and
>have never had an issue
>with clients and the right
>to use their photos.
>
>I normally don't post in these
>forums but just thought I
>would try to provide an
>explanation
>
>Good luck in the draw.


Bobby,
Isn't there a cowboy you should be saving right now from a bull,??.. good look brother. Sure you'll have some pics of some great animals to share this fall . Look forward to it!
 
Hi crazeymaez, do you guide for Bighorn with Jim?

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
What a joke, guys will go pay over a thousand dollars for a Sitka or Kuiu outfit to be fashenable on the hunt but god forbid if an outfitter, and I mean a good outfitter wants to cover his cost ..... lol I bought a high dollar furnace last year and installed it myself when it wouldn't keep running after the first cycle and I couldn't figure it out I called an HVAC guy. He came out said it needed a 10in drain hose, cost about a dollar but the service call cost me $300 after reading this thread guess I should have told him to get the #@*& out I'm not paying you for that.....If I drew a coveted NM sheep tag $25 ain?t getting in the way of two of the best sheep outfitters in the state !! Hell you'll piss away more than that just traveling to the hunt. ...wtf
 
nmbowhunter is absolutely correct.GT and his crew work extremely hard to give their hunters the very best life long memories and they put more big rams on the ground than any other outfitter.It doesn't matter if you are a wealthy multi millionaire or every day hunter Gt has worked his entire life to build his business and has guys who are hunters themselves that have been together for years, those words on the contract are no different then other outfitters with very good reputations.These outfitters do this to protect their work, many an outfitter has worked their butts off to have others take credit, and those "rights" protect them so other dishonest guys cannot take credit or profit from ones work....
 
I completely agree with the last couple posts. Most outfitters are telling what order to put your apps in also so in turn they are giving information. Sounds like a fee is being charged for info in a lot of cases. If you want the best you know what two are the best. GT and Bill are spending endless hours scouting in the off season to give good information to possible clients.
 
>Be careful with kiowa. I was
>riding around with the game
>warden last year. Kiowa was
>contracting hunters, taking their $2509
>and only showing up the
>day before the hunt to
>tell them where to hunt.
>It was basically a $2500
>diy hunt. The people the
>warden checked were not happy
>they werent being guided and
>the contract specifically states the
>guide has to be with
>you at least 2 days
>in the field. The warden
>said he was going to
>go after kiowa license. So
>not sure what happened with
>that whole lawsuit. Just make
>sure you know what your
>getting.
>
>Also do not talk ill of
>any outfitters on here like
>i just did. It really
>pisses off most people and
>you will have nothing but
>a lot of ticked off
>people at the end of
>the day for being whistle
>blowers.


????? Long time no read Stomp .
 
Kiowa does 1/2 guided hunt, you are pretty much paying to be in the outfitter pool and they do the bare minimum required because these people didn't pay the full guide fee. (2 days in the field) Other outfitters doing this also, its not just them.

They got some of the best Ibex guys and do OK on oryx.

You can re-read my posts, Bill and GT are 2 of the best sheep guides in the state, but I am not paying a private application fee and I am not signing away rights to my property. Plenty of people will, and they will kill big sheep with both guys. I have not disparaged in anyway their guiding skills - I don't like their contracts.

As with buying a outfitter pool only hunt, as you mentioned - buyer beware, know the terms of the contract you sign with your outfitter. Applies for all 3 of these guys.

Really the outfitter pool needs to be done away with. Go to straight 10 or 15% NR tag allocation and the guides can get thier own business without state welfare. But what do I know.
 
I agree 100% with what DoeNob has stated. The only thing I would add is that I will not pay the $25/species application fee to Bill. This is way over the top, I have not run across another outfitter in another state that feels the need to do this. Especially with less than 1% odds! If Bill can get it, then great. But not for me.
 
I'm agreeing with muley man. ITS BASICALLY A DONATION! To charge an application fee is ludicrous, ESPECIALLY when the odd is under %1! Do the above mentioned take great Rams? HELL YES! No arguing that!
 
This is Tim Barraclough and I am the President Kiowa Hunting Service, INC. and this message is for Mr. Stomper and his Game Warden friend. Last year, the law specifically read that we only had to meet with a client twice during his hunt. The length of the meeting was up to the outfitter and agreed to by the client. The length of the meeting had to be stipulated in each and every contract that was with the hunter-client. A day before the scheduled hunt and the day after the scheduled hunt, counted in the time frame to meet with the client. I can provide a signed contract with each hunter-client, that stipulates out exactly what was provided for each and every client, also pictures of my registered guides meeting with the clients twice, as stipulated by law. It needs to be noted that this was last year's regulation and it is totally different this year and must mandate a two day guide, this was not the case prior to January 1, 2018..

By law, the regulations stated that the contract between the outfitter and the hunter-client, must stipulate the time frame that we must be with the hunt. It was a meet and greet and had to be no more that that. What an outfitter decides to do and what the outfitter provides is stipulated in the contract and it is signed by the client acknowledging the stipulations. You state some monetary number, that is not remotely what we charged for the service, so what. Those hunters knew exactly what we would provide and what the costs involved were. If they did not like either item, then go somewhere else. Any person that contracted with Kiowa, about the use of the outfitter number, was told exactly what he/she was paying for, prior to accepting any terms. if that person agreed to it, signed the contract to apply for a hunt in the outfitter pool, and then applied, has no room to complain about anything.

You come on this forum and make slanderous remarks about Kiowa Hunting, with only hearsay information or third hand information from your game warden buddy or you got it from somewhere, on a subject that leads a client to believe that we did or would do anything illegal. This could potentially lead to a lawsuit because we have zero toleration for statements that defame us, if the statements were to continue. You can also tell your "buddy" the Game Warden to come on and present these clients, his case and his information, and we will talk about it. I will meet him at any time he wants, in the Director's office, to present his case. Evidently this happened last fall and no one has contacted me except for this post The reason no one has contacted me is the game warden was wrong in his interpretation of the law, if that is where it came from. Lastly there is no law suit, no citation, no contact period because he was wrong.

I spent 26 years enforcing Game and Fish laws and I feel that I have a pretty good feel for interpreting Game and Fish regulations and statutes as to what is legal.

You made one correct statement on your forum and that was "Also do not talk ill of any outfitters on here like i just did. It really pisses off most people and you will have nothing but a lot of ticked off people at the end of the day for being whistle blowers".

I can live with whistleblowers but cannot, and will not deal with anyone that makes slanderous remarks and that includes your game warden for starting slanderous information and you for passing on misinformation.

Anyone that wants to ask me any questions, my contact information is below.

Kiowa Hunting Service
www.kiowahunting.com
[email protected]
 
Out of this here is my take....

If u pay someone to see their outfitter number, find a new one.

Gary Nunn has killed more rams than the plague.

Th outfitter draw needs to become extinct.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-03-18 AT 08:50AM (MST)[p]>Ha, POST # 29 thread is
>gone.....Someone got called on the
>carpet....


I saw that, you can still read the original rant from Stomper on post 30. At least for now...

I am curious to see if he has any response to Oso?s rebuttal
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-18 AT 08:56PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Apr-03-18
>AT 08:50?AM (MST)
>
>>Ha, POST # 29 thread is
>>gone.....Someone got called on the
>>carpet....
>
>
>I saw that, you can still
>read the original rant from
>Stomper on post 30. At
>least for now...
>
>I am curious to see if
>he has any response to
>Oso?s rebuttal


Interesting...he's uncharacteristically silent. Point must have been made.
 
Doubt I ever go on another guided hunt in my lifetime, but, Bill Llewellen is the real deal. Hunted with him a long time ago. He is Legit.
 
DoeNob is absolutely correct! Why should any state establish a requirement wherein one has to contract with a private for profit business in order to participate in a form of public recreation? Granted the states have control and ownership of wildlife within their borders presumably for all but establishing a set aside for one particular occupational class is just wrong. Alaska is the worst. For sheep a NR needs a signed contract before they can even apply! Imagine if a state told a nonresident if they want to stay in the best hotel rooms while on vacation they have to book the rooms via a state mandated set aside of hotel owners! Simply put, state government should not be in the business of enabling a certain occupational class, i.e, Alaska, Nevada, New Mexico.
 
>DoeNob is absolutely correct! Why
>should any state establish a
>requirement wherein one has to
>contract with a private for
>profit business in order to
>participate in a form of
>public recreation? Granted the
>states have control and ownership
>of wildlife within their borders
>presumably for all but establishing
>a set aside for one
>particular occupational class is just
>wrong. Alaska is the
>worst. For sheep a
>NR needs a signed contract
>before they can even apply!
> Imagine if a state
>told a nonresident if they
>want to stay in the
>best hotel rooms while on
>vacation they have to book
>the rooms via a state
>mandated set aside of hotel
>owners! Simply put, state
>government should not be in
>the business of enabling a
>certain occupational class, i.e, Alaska,
>Nevada, New Mexico.



I do think that the outfitters cut themselves just a little to sweet of deal a few years ago. State, local and fed governments do it all the time. Whether it is tax incentives, or tariffs. This is nothing new. I argue with my outfitter friends about the deal they cut.

But, that being said, if you ask yourself the question is NM hunting better off with a strong Outfitter association over a weak one. The answer is a resounding yes. It is obvious that getting regular hunters to do or agree on anything politically is like herding cats. Having a strong outfitter council has made sure that we can fight some of the stupid stuff that comes out of Santa Fe.
 

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