NMWF ?

cosmic_cowboy

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There has been some very good ideas tossed around here but some of you guys are bashing the NMWF. I was just wondering why ? I've been to some of their meetings and they seem very pro hunting to me. Is it because of their affiliation with the NWF ?Don't think you can base it all on that. They are also affiliated with... Back Country Hunters and Anglers, Foundation for North American Wild Sheep, Mule Deer Foundation, National Rifle Asso. National Wild Turkey Federation, Qual Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Trout Unlimited. All pro hunting groups.They seem to be one of the only pro hunting lobbies we have. I'm a newbee here so enlighten me.
 
There are a number of outfitters on here that don't like NMWF because they are about to improve resident draw odds. I wish the MonsterMuleys website would add a "?" or something after professional outfitter's username to identify them. This would allow everyone to see who they are in forum posts.
 
I am not an outfitter.

I posted my concerns about NMWF.

Originally, I bought into their emails, I even sent them money.

I see much bigger problems that NM hunting is facing rather than us successfully screwing NR out of $ to fund our G&F like every other state.

Between the 2 of you guys you have 15 posts. Is the only interest you have in NM hunting is trying to get some more tags out of the NR pool.
How about some of the other issues.
This seems to be the only ones that motivated you to post.


***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
I take your comment about the low number of posts very offensive and a personal cheap shot!!!

I have nothing against non-residents, if they want better draw odds they are welcome to move to New Mexico!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-11 AT 10:08PM (MST)[p]I don't like NMWF and have said so.

They went out of their way to put resident hunters against Land Owners with the Antelope fiasco.

They are currently putting resident hunters against outfitters.

Their poorly orchestrated tactics are creating a hostile environment and driving a wedge between the resident hunters and the very organizations they need to better their hunting opportunities.

It's not the causes they have taken up, it's the way they're going about it.



"I have nothing against non-residents, if they want better draw odds they are welcome to move to New Mexico!!"

And I've been reading where NR have better odds. WTH??
 
Agree with the above post and Pauls. I've read some of NMWR and still don't know what they represent,and for whom. They do have a way of throwing groups against each other,for their benefit. This minority of folks here on the NM forum that seem to dislike non-residents,outfitters,and all landowners that get tags,do not represent most of the folks I know in NM. IMHO
 
Wow Paul I expected more from you. do you think this fourm is a contest as to who has the most posts ? Screwing the NR has nothing to do with Game and Fish funding. They get 70% of their funding from fishing not hunting anyway. And to say I don't have any interst in NM hunting.... I've been hunting NM for 42 years, raised two kids that both hunt and love it. No one is more passionate about NM hunting than me. My ? was why are you against the NMWF. Not about who has the most posts...
 
You guys are way to sensitive. Most of my post was a tongue in cheek comment and an attempt at humor (appears I did not achieve it, but it was an attempt).

Your not gonna last long if your that thin skinned.

As far as a contest for most posts, doesn't sound like a good idea. Some of the guys from UT have over 10000.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion about NMWF and whatever other opinions you may have about hunting.

I posted my concerns about NMWF on another thread and do not feel like typing them again.

Cosmic_coyboy, I appreciate that you posted your disagreement with me on forum. I apologize if I was a little harsh.

nmhntr, you reporting the post is more like a spoiled little baby. When your done crying to your momma your welcome to respond.
 
Let me start by saying that I've hunted mostly southern NM over 20 seasons as non resident(before everything went to a draw).I haven't drawn a tag in 9 years and I'm missing the land of enchantment soo much that I'm considering buying a landowner tag if I can find one I can afford. I love your state and the folks there have treated my hunting buddy and I great. I somehow started receiving e-mails from NMWF several years back and I can't see anything positive about their approach to wildlife management. I'm always amazed at some of the NM residents who think getting nearly 8 of 10 tags issued is just not enough. I wish some of you fellas would step away from the issue long enough to realize how greedy this sounds. I'm going to keep trying to draw another tag but unless my luck changes I'm going to be too damm old to hunt like I like to. Just my .02 cents on the topic.

P.S. If you guys ever work your way down to the Texas Gulf Coast
just give me a holler and we will attack the Red's and Speck's.
I've never seen so many reds in Galveston bay as we have right now. Later Taters
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-11 AT 04:03PM (MST)[p]I live in Kingwood but I fish upper Galveston and Trinity
bay most of the time. If your folks live on Smith's Point I'm sure they have seen the influx of the Reds since Hurricane Ike.
 
Yes, the NMFW is horrid!

How dare, Jermey, comes on here, and he was being honest.

A NM hunting organization fighting a corrupt system!

I am just shaking my head!
 
Sorry but NMWF roots are anti-hunting. Pro Wolves, Pro Cap & Trade, Pro any buisness killing item they can find. There very articles and newletters if you read are anti any buisness. Like Oil & Gas. They would rather you drive a prius than a hunting truck.

Just read some of the crap they publish. I find it sickening.

This whole thing about fighting for more tags. There is better ways. What they are pushing. Will demish Game & Fish funds, Kill several legitamite buisnesses of the state. And demish the funds going for Habitat.

All for the sake of getting a few extra tags, Maybe and thats a big maybe increasing your draw odds by 1%. Sorry but the negatives far outweigh the 1% in draw odds.

Oh and for record - I am not a outfitter or a guide.




Outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man.
 
30inchbuck,

So to be pro-sportsman you have to be pro oil and gas, anti-regulation of industry and allow public tags to be privatized?

Sounds like you want an organization that promotes ranching, oil and gas and the guiding industry at the expense of New Mexico hunters and anglers.

Luckily for you, there already is a "sportsman" organization that believes we should drill every inch of mule deer habitat, give guides access to whatever tags they want at the expense of residents, allow private landowners to dictate who can hunt antelope in New Mexico and generally support the corruption at NMGF and the commission. That "sportsman's" organization is SFW, but I think you already knew that.

Some of you guys that are so interested in protecting your little fiefdoms should think long and hard about the legacy you are going to leave and ask yourselves if your children and their children will be proud of your efforts or if they will be trying to clean up the mess you're making.

Public wildlife is a good thing, it's why we still have hunting when the rest of the world doesn't. Clean water, clean air and healthy habitat is the key to quality hunting and fishing.

If you can't get behind those simple ideas, then you're not a sportsman, you're just a jackass with rifle.

The privilege of hunting comes with the responsibility of stewardship, both to the land, and to the public ownership of our fish and wildlife.
 
Great points Greg.


30inchNutt (I mean buck),

I can not understand the ideology of using up our natural resources for profit at any cost. What is more conservative than wisely using natural resources so that they will be here in future generations. It absolutely infuriated me how the BLM (several yrs ago) wholesale leased our public lands in Wyoming for drilling without any consideration for wildlife, recreation, scenic values and other potential uses. They leased way more than could possibly be drilled and required little if any protection for wildlife resources. I don't oppose drilling but what is wrong with doing it responsibly.

What is wrong with taking care of valuable resources such as wildlife so they can be enjoyed by future generations?
 
NMWF "PRO SPORTSMAN" how do you figure that I guess that would mean the NR isn't sportsman. I guess the next thing will be to pit the archery guys against the rifle guys and so the archery guys can get more tags and long hunting seasons.NMWF will give you more tags and wolves to help eat those tags I hope you get rid of the Landowners tags too can hear the toliet flushing now,so the F&G can raise up those tags price for residents to hunt animals that wouldn't be there.I got maybe 15 years more hunting before I hang it up, I figure it will take that long for you all to screw it up so bad it wouldn't be worth travelling there to hunt then you residents can fight over the remains.
Hell shutdown the those gas and oil wells too and really screw the State up.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
If everyone was smart they would let this post die. The majority of sportsmen saw right through NMWF and will not support their pro wolf agenda.

As for the apparent ideas that are off in "left field", such as the opinions posted by elkman and cosmic cowboy, need to be disregarded by almost all.

These guys only get on here to pester every member on this site and are best taken with a deaf ear.

Usually my posts to elkman are followed with the typical rhetoric of "You need to go back to sixth grade english" or something simliarly childish.

Facts are the nmwf supports wolves. They admitted that in this very forum and the words are there for you to read. The data supports wolves slaughtering herds in yellowstone and idaho yet nmwf still supports them. Then instead of attack the E-plus system which is corrupt they go after the antelope and attack the NR's. They have zero intelligence in their leadership ranks if they are actually sportsmen.

Now lets not re hash this stupid issue. Facts are the NMWF does not stand with us and never will. Lets have the few immature stupid comments by elkman and then lets let this stupid thread die.

ego participate in Monasteriense muleys proinde ego sum bardus (I participate on monstermuleys therefore I am stupid)
 
You guys who are so focused on less than two dozen wolves while there are actual real sportsman's issues are a real hoot.

Your irrational fear of wolves used to frustrate me, but now it cracks me up.

Luckily there are plenty of sportsmen out there who do real conservation work instead of playing "OH my the big bad wolf" on the internet and blowing each other's egos.

I'm sure the Idaho/Montana guys would get a kick out of you guys who think New Mexico has a wolf problem.

And by the way, Montana did away with their outfitter set aside in November.

It's good to know that while those of us who prioritize our kids ability to draw tags are otherwise engaged in trying to change a broken system, a few of you will be keeping the faith by hanging out in an Albuquerque Starbucks and fear mongering on the internet about what rational people consider to be the least important issue facing hunting in New Mexico.

So pull up a chair and order yourselves a latte, tough guys.
 
I don't think I have seen one Idaho or Wyoming hunter laugh about their "small" wolf problem,That small problem is getting to a point that it is affecting a huge slice of country that men and women used to hunt and kill animals that how the wolves take I guess sooner or later those tags for those area's will no longer be used either, maybe they will give them back to the resident too, LOL. But now when your (10) wolves become a problem and it will, Do you really believe that it is going to stop at ten or grow,I believe they told Idaho and Wyoming the same thing and look they drank the same Kool-aid you are drinking as those numbers keep climbing, and they still don't have a season to control those numbers where does the feeding of the wolves stop ask those the Game Depts in ID & WY how many more tags they could issue if they didn't have a wolf problem I bet it more then 2000.
Is it 2 dozens wolves now or 10 who's numbers are you going to use the one's that will be wanting wolves in NM or the ones who wants them out, You choose.
Idaho and Wyoming wish they could go back 20 years ago before it got out of hand. Now is your chance don't blow it.

AZ,Co,UT and states around New Mexico has a stake it this too you think those wolves can read where the state lines are what animals they are allow to take.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
I didn't say they were laughing at their problem, I said they were laughing at you, because you think NM is even in the same league as them when in comes to wolves.

Thanks though, for that authentic piece of frontier gibberish, and don't forget to tip the barista.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-11 AT 10:12PM (MST)[p]What the hell are ya jabbering there, Greg?

Do you know what the heck you're flappin' about?

nah, I don't think you do

now what about it, 'tough guy'? let's hear it
 
NM isn't in the same league as Idaho and wyoming for one reason. We don't have vast wilderness areas the wolves can hide in and reproduce in at alarming rates. The wolves have to spread out of the gila wilderness and thank god for the common New Mexican we don't have a moral compass when it comes to wolves.

I'm gonna say what we all think so please excuse me when I use the "P" word. Lets just say I don't think many of use view shooting a wolf on sight is poaching. We see a wolf down here and he's dead.

Thank you to all the ranchers, sportsmen, and guys who understand our plight in shooting every wolf you see on sight. Good luck to the game department in protecting an animal we don't want here and never did want.

If you nature loving freaks want wolves so f'ing bad realease them in santa fe and albuquerque so they can prey on all your little tea pot chihuahua's and fags.

You want em? You raise em? As for us sportsmen, we don't want em and they will never be welcome here!

End of issue now lets move on. You can never force us to like wolves so get over it. END OF SUBJECT!
 
One last statement for all who read this. There are many out there who want someone to step out and claim they shot a wolf. I can't help but think if these idiots aren't related to the other side. Think about it! Don't fall for any of their crap and please ignore them in the future. Im seriously worried about anyone who would honestly try and get someone to mess up on line but I suppose stranger things have happened.

As for me: I hate wolves and hope those ranchers in the Gila get the last of them shot out! To bad the wildlife board didn't get the blessings of the guys who have to deal with the wolves first hand huh?

Like I said, realease them in albuquerque and lets see how long it would take you to grab a gun and protect whats yours.




ego participate in Monasteriense muleys proinde ego sum bardus (I participate on monstermuleys therefore I am stupid)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-11 AT 10:43PM (MST)[p]Stinky never ceases to amuze me. NMWF in my opinion purposfully picks topics that will be controversial only to be controversial. Publicity is publicity to these guys. Trying to grow a sustanable pack of wolves in SW NM is a waste of time, money and conservation efforts.

Kill the wolves

Reform the E Plus system (its not perfect yet and can be improved for both landowners and public)

Eat Spotted Owls (because they taste like bald eagles)

Vote Stinky for NM's next Govenor
 
Stump,

You do not agree with NMWF on the % issue of tags? I would think as a resident of craphole Artesia, NM you would like a bigger % of tags go to residents? I guess that, I am wrong!

What does this tag allocation, have to do with wolves?

No, matter what org you belong to, not eveyone will agree with every point?

Do you have of an in on landowner tags for 34?
 
What does this tag allocation, have to do with wolves.
Elkman what do you think wolves are going to eat, Wait now I remember you would like they to eat those Landowners cattle that you dislike so much.NMWF wants the tags now so later they can get from the residents it would be that hard for them because by then you will believe what they tell you and will not want to say hell I screwed up and let them in.

Greg do you think the States of Idaho and Wyoming started out with hundreds of wolves, NO they started just like NM with just a few dozen and then they breed and then they breed again and again. It didn't take long to have alot of pups that grew up to be nice little wolves.
I think even a guy like you can do the math and see how that ends ups.But you can go ahead and put your head in the sand and hide from the truth, So tell me how the wolf problem in thse States started how would change it or would you just let it go.

How many time does it have to happen before you realize that they lie to your face about their intentions really are. Here what they say we will only replace the animals that was here before to a level that we can support.They leave alot of loopholes to keep getting that number higher and higher while the whole time those numbers(wolves) are eating your deer and elk.
But your are right the sky isn't falling, But if you wait until it does you're to late, the problem is already eating your future.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
I never said that I was not for responsible Oil & Gas extraction. Never said I never guided. Just dont do it anymore, still friends with the outfitter. Friends with lots of guys.

Not many guys see what I have seen in the NW with the Oil & Gas industry. However they do more for habitat than the RMEF, MDF, SCI, SFW, NWTF combined. So yes if that makes me a bad sportsman then I laugh at you for being so ignorant.

Oh NMWF says it's priorities are Opportunity Habitat Youth. I would love to see one habitat project that they have done. Only thing I seen with the donated money is pay for adds to support Cap and Trade, pay for adds to pit sportsman against sportsman. Print the liberal rag that they send out being Anti's.
 
copy and paste in Qrl. "It called the begining of the end".
See how this works for you, It about wolves.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
I will make it quick.

I don't care for their way about trying to get things done.

When they tackled the "Antelope issue" they were throwing numbers and percentages around that were leading people to believe that the extreme was the truth. Instead of using overall odds to prove their points they would send out their news letters asking for help and would have some deceiving numbers tied into it.

I figure that if they are willing to do that then they would be willing to throw around other things to try and gain support
 
How many wild wolves are there in NM?

I mean GOD FOR BID NM residents want a bigger % of permits.

If this does not pass, the big bad wolves are going to eat all the poor landowners cows. That they run on publc land, and use their ranches for elk!

NM residents keep the 12% rule to outfitters, or the wolves are going to eat your Labrodoodle!
 
Conservation Comm. voted 7-1 in favor of tags being 90% Res, 8% NonRes with guide....and 2% NonRes. Ouch, that is, if you are a do-it-yourselfer from out of state. I can't justify the upfront costs for that few tags. That is 1/5 the odds of AZ, for goodness sakes, where 10% go to NR who can hunt on own. Message received loud and clear.
 
I guess the Outfitter industry is more important to NM than people gave them credit for.
Then again, they could have amended the Bill like that to make sure it gets killed down the road. I don't see an 8/2 split living very long.
 
Well if this is truly the case then New Mexico can officially kiss this NR goodbye. I know that is the whole point for the majority of the Resident hunter's, but come on. NR nonguided hunters are not even the focus of this mess or the so-called problem in the draw. I don't plan to hire a guide because I don't need one nor can I afford one.

Thank goodness the odds of me deer hunting with my resident family in New Mexico just went to around .001%.

Goodbye to all the middle class, every day Joe hunters in New Mexico.

Again, this is why NMWF is a load of crap.
 
I hope this means ElkMan gets a premium tag every year. If not he'll be calling for tags to be restricted to only native born residents or worse.

It's a damn shame with all the federal tax I pay every year that I'm continually restricted from hunting the national forest I pay to help maintain.
 
Good lord drop the internet badass act and learn to take a joke.

I am glad we agree the 2% to DIY NR is bs. If it's being dropped to 10% for NR so be it, but it shouldn't be mandated that NR use a guide to have any chance of drawing a tag.
 
I guess you aren't as smart as I thought you was.
How many wolves are there in NM Your guess is as good as anyone's, don't worry about those ranchers cows on public land they will deal with their losses that not the point here and charge F&G a good deal of money for those losses, the point is those tags you're trying to win for your fellow residents will be a distant memory if you let NMWF fool you in thinking they are your friends and they get wolves in here under the same type of crap they used up north to get the amount of wolves in Wyo,ID,MT we WILL have A sesaon on them, then that never happens and you are stuck with your friendly wolves.
I hope you guys go to the 2% then maybe the fed's will start up a Federal hunting license on Federal land shooting State animals. I can see right now the Fed's are missing the boat on the amount of money could get by selling hunting licenses, they are missing out on it could be in the Billons if you do all the states. LOL

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
I think WapitiBob is on to something. I almost hope this is the version that moves forward. I can not see this passing and if it does I do not see it standing up to a challenge. These absolutely crazy non-resident restictions have been challenged in other states.

Does anyone know of a group that helps to fight for the rights of all hunters to have reasonable access to hunting opportunities?

If this passes New Mexico will go from what I think is the best system in the west to the absolute worst system anywhere - from my perspective of course.

Is there anyone out there that would refuse to take these smaller steps at first and see if it helps:

1. Drawing for 1st choice only before looking at second choice.
2. Create a resident pool for Oryx, Ibex, etc. - so few tags who cares?
3. Require non-res to buy hunting license (only if tag allocations remain the similar to today and a bonus point system is created)
4. 10% non-res non-guided and 10% non-res guided (adds a couple to res pool)
5. Non-res can only draw one big game tag per year and must sit out one year after drawing any big game tag - but can still apply for a bonus point for all species.
 
Agree 100%.

If hunting is important to you at all wolves cannot be allowed a foothold in any state.
It will not stop with 1-2 packs. They will not be managed.
It becomes a politicians game once their established.
 
The amount of auction tags and "presidents" tags the federal government would create will make even Utah feel ashamed. :)

I believe New Mexico residents do have some legitimate complaints about their current system, mostly the landowner tag allocation system. Supporting an organization that thinks wolves should be reintroduced is not the way to get it done.
 

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