% of bull elk tags on private lands

[ELKMAN]

I would love to see the % of bull elk tags on big private ranches compared to cow tags sold? It is public record, because they still have to buy a NM permit!

Many large ranches throw their cow tags in the trash!

Then, G and F does a survey, and they hammer the public lands with tags!

ENOUGH

 

[Bullbreath]

All would do is prove what we are saying. It is all about greed. If it was about wildlife eating there forage, they would get cow tags as they are the main group of eaters. It will just make us even more upset to see the %. Something has got to be done. It is not going to be easy but the fight is on.

 

[JACOB2006]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-10 AT 10:11AM (MST)[p]Would be nice if lo only got female tags!!!!guess I'll keep dreaming!!!!!

 

[tooele]

OK guys, sounds like you guys are calling making a living greed. I'll bet in your jobs it is all altruistic. There is never a compromise made to make a profit. Maybe a landowner doesn't shoot cows, because it increases, the number of bulls in future years. Noone ever said that fish and game is the best managers. In fact some ranches manage game much better than the fish and game. Anyone, I am not even a landowner, but to listen to you guys whine, shocks me that the fish and game, commisioners even consider listening to you. So why don't one of you guys get the facts. Lets start somewhere so we don't have to hear you whine and we come really come to some good conclusion.

Let's start with 16 D. Somebody post the total tag numbers, the total land owner tags and the total non-resident tags, excluding the landowner tags. Let's see if what you are whining about is really true.

 

[rockn9858]

16 D
LO MB 12
LO A 12
LO ES 18

Public draw
ES 150
MB 125
A 100
A youth 120

 

[Bullbreath]

>OK guys, sounds like you guys
>are calling making a living
>greed. I'll bet in
>your jobs it is all
>altruistic. There is never
>a compromise made to make
>a profit. Maybe a
>landowner doesn't shoot cows, because
>it increases, the number of
>bulls in future years.
>Noone ever said that fish
>and game is the best
>managers. In fact some
>ranches manage game much better
>than the fish and game.
> Anyone, I am not
>even a landowner, but to
>listen to you guys whine,
>shocks me that the fish
>and game, commisioners even consider
>listening to you. So
>why don't one of you
>guys get the facts.
>Lets start somewhere so we
>don't have to hear you
>whine and we come really
>come to some good conclusion.
>
>
>Let's start with 16 D.
>Somebody post the total tag
>numbers, the total land owner
>tags and the total non-resident
>tags, excluding the landowner tags.
> Let's see if what
>you are whining about is
>really true.


Definitely sounds like your whining. If you cannot stand reality of your group being challenged then go cry somewhere else. I think it is funny you picked 16D. What a coincidence. Glad you fessed up that its about money. How about lets start with a few units. Not just a specifically focused one (Wink). units 15,34,9,16e, just for starters.

 

[JACOB2006]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-10 AT 11:34AM (MST)[p]Also add in bull to cow numbers!!Remember those lo tags are to help control # on the private land.Let me know if you find a unit that has too many bulls!!!!

 

[Bullbreath]

>Also add in bull to cow
>numbers!!Remember those lo tags are
>to help control # on
>the private land.

Ethical facts are at odds against the money. Who will win??? the tax paying NM sportsmen or LO/OFs. You decide, we report Most think a balance favoring the sportsman will be the common sense approach to such gross injustice in this state. Have a great day.

 

[rockn9858]

unit 15
LO MB 237
LO A 162
LO ES 179

public draw
ES 600
youth ES 25
A 500
A youth 120
MB 699

 

[JACOB2006]

You need to post that under the 16d post.So everyone sees it!!

 

[MeatHnter]

I am no land owner, but I do have an opinion siding with them. What right does anyone have to dictate what does or does not happen within the boundaries of another's private property. It's outright Un-American! And a land owner who does not make every effort to maximize the profitability of their land will not be a land owner for long. If I had a property with resident/migrant herd...you're damn right I would petition for every tag possible...let me find the balance between profit and management for future profit. On the flip side, I do disagree with unit wide tags issued to LO's. There is no reason to privatize public access and I believe all sportsmen should be at odds with our law makers over that.

Basically, if you have land and elk are making a living off of your land, you should have the right to manage your land as you see fit. The instant you take profit from wildlife out of a LO's pocket, you negate all value and the wildlife become nothing but a burden/pest. After that LO's will have no choice but to "protect" their investment via wildlife harassment/killing, denial of access to wildlife(fences) or some other way to convert their property into profit (possible development). That my friends...is not going to do any of us any good in the future.

LO's who are serious about profiting from wildlife on their property in general do a good job of managing their game. Those who only play temporary host to wildlife but don't have anything to hunt during prescribed seasons should still be entitled to compensation...though I am not sure exactly what and how much...it's a grey area.

Remember, just because you have the biggest HDTV in town does not give a stranger the right to plop his ass down on your couch with a beer and brat to watch Monday Night Football!

 

[Bullbreath]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-10 AT 01:50PM (MST)[p]"And a land owner who does not make every effort to maximize the profitability of their land will not be a land owner for long"

Greed defined,thanks. I come from a east coast large farm. My grandfather opted to "rest" each section every 5 years. Many thought he was crazy to throw away "more profit". He had a about 8 sections so they got rotated to rest and recoup nutrients. He made as much as the rest and felt better about the higher quality tobacco he had. Every one in Hollywood MD knew how granddad had the best tobacco at the market. Unit 15 is a prime example of LOs not giving it a "rest". They have been screaming for more tags for 15 years. Some are in denial about it, but unit 15 is not close to what it use to be. I remember from 1994-98 there were multiple 400 class bulls coming out of that unit. You might here of a couple out of the entire gila now. My grandfather was a "farmer" "rancher" he let people hunt "wildlife on his property". There needs to be a balance because those animals are NOT the ranchers property. They have exploited elk and I laugh when they talk about helping them with water. LOs have destroyed Q in our state. Unit 15,34 and 4 are prime examples where "they aint what it used to be. The biggest increase in these once super units is LO tags over the last 15 years. Think about it.

 

[WapitiBob]

How many paychecks do you give back each year?

 

[NMelkhunter]

If I have an ant problem in my house and I call the Orkin Man to come reduce my ant population, I think I will ask him for a fee to take care of the problem instead of me paying him.

You see, the problem is that the LOs have figured out that they can make some $$$ off the solution to reduce what they claim is a problem, when really there is a solution out there that would solve the problem but the LOs wouldn't get near the $$$ out of the deal. Bring in resident and non-resident hunters to reduce the population of game animals on the ranch and voila! Problem solved...at least as much as it is with the current system of LOs selling permits to kill these same animals.

 

[NMPaul]

I have been trying to stay out of this, however.......

This year I have been shopping for a Ranch only or unit wide bull tag for the family.

One of the "situations" I came across was a ranch that has about 1400 acres. Of that 200 is right off of a main road and 640 has elk on it rarely (though we all know that is subject to change).


For these 1400 acres they get a total of 12 elk tags. Most of these are of course bull tags.

They have a broker (I mean a joker) selling them for them.

I played along because I was curious about what they were getting.

Basically they are asking $1250 for a bull tag. The clown that is selling them for the LO claims that he is not a hunter so he does not have to answer any real questions.
He also is not keeping track of when any of the people are coming out to hunt what is basically one section that occasionally have elk.

To me this is wrong in many ways.

Not only is that a screwing to some unsuspecting hunter that may buy the tag. (I know this property and basically elk may occasionally pass through this one section. It can be hunted in about 40 minutes).

Also, you would be hard pressed to do $12500 damage to a property by way of elk.

I really do not blame the landowner. I blame the system.

The landowner is good people. They just want to make as much off of a poor system as they can. I know some of you may blame them, but, I do not. I think the pimp selling them is a cockroach liar. He knows what he is selling and hiding behind the a story of not being a hunter so he answers no important questions.
How would you like to buy a tag for $1250 on a property that it takes 40 minutes to hunt and find someone else has a tag there or maybe a party of 3 other hunters have a tag at the same time?????

I also know of a ranch that has over 16000 acres and the guy gets 6 bull tags and 2 cow tags. Now, this guy is not a hunter also, but, he understands what an elk eats, damages, and he has a sense of fairness.

G&F will give a LO almost what ever they want. Many LO are doing the right thing. Some are not. Do not lump them all together.

Last example I know a guy with a prime piece of elk Country with water and feed. He has planted food plots, put in extra water, thinned trees, seeded grass. He takes a fair number of tag so his family can hunt. He has made an effort to create habitat for the elk.

The system is in place and LOs handle it in many ways. We do hear about and remember the bad ones.
G&F is afraid of a depredation law suit so they give tags almost as requested.

There are some out there that need to be told what they should have.

SCR is a whole other animal.

 

[MeatHnter]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-10 AT 03:59PM (MST)[p]Bullbreath - "Greed defined,thanks. I come from a east coast large farm. My grandfather opted to "rest" each section every 5 years"

That "rest" you referred to is called "sound" management. I believe you can also call that "management for future profit" as I stated in my post. LO's who do not use "sound" management will soon find that they no longer have game to manage and will lose future profit...their choice. You have no more right to force their choice than I do to forcibly take one of your grandfather's sections to grow hay for my horses just because he has and I don't.

NMelkhunter ? You speak of a perfect world. There are some wonderful LO?s out there that allow public access as a management tool. But with public access on private land comes public liability. ?Irresponsible hunter Jim Bob was walking to close a ridgeline and slid off the edge breaking his back and is now suing property owner for not posting the dangers of gravity? or ?Irresponsible hunter Dip Stick celebrated his successful harvest by getting s$&# faced drunk, building a bonfire with gasoline and prairie grass burning 640 acres of prime grazing land. Property owner must sell off stock due to food shortage.? Or ?Irresponsible hunter Dumb S*#@ failed to identify his target through the branches of a tree and mistakenly killed property owners prized Hereford bull.? There are many reasons that LO?s don't what to allow public access, most of which involve not wanting to deal with the idiots who make the responsible hunters look bad. Would you let the Orkin Man take a week long residence in your living room and leave a 5 day pile of crap on your hallway floor? Will the Orkin Man somehow benefit from his experience with the ants you have deemed to be a ?problem?? If the Orkin Man, through his civic duty, accidentally burns your home down with your family in it?are you going to let the next Orkin Man into your new house?

Both - It is a shame we all can't live in peace, harmony and bliss?but the truth is that someone will always F&*% it up for everyone else. As far as greed, if you want to call a LO greedy because he wants to profit off of his land then you should ask your employer to reduce your pay to minimum wage and turn down any future raises?anything you make above minimum wage is just Greed ? Defined!

 

[MeatHnter]

NMPaul,

I agree with the majority of your post. We all have the responsibility to be educated consumers. Sounds like you are one and identified a bad product. If only everyone was so well equipped, LO's would not be able to sell such bullsh$# tags and the system would naturally change for the better. Somewhat like narcotics...If there were no junkies there would be no dealers...then doctors could prescribe treatment more confidently to those who actually need the stuff without worry about supporting a bad habit. Always someone screws it up for the rest!

 

[Bullbreath]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-10 AT 09:09PM (MST)[p]"you should ask your employer to reduce your pay to minimum wage and turn down any future raises?anything you make above minimum wage is just Greed ? Defined!"

This is garbage. Minimum wage? Do you think the rancher had elk in mind when the ranch was started? Get real, most ranchers in NM have made there living off cattle. They understood that going in. There are feast and famine years as it was back east. Granddad weathered them all without milking whitetails on the side. I suppose if granddad grew pot and had to go back to tobacco, in his mind it may seem like minimum wage. That is life. Whining is definitely a huge issue.

 

[NMelkhunter]

Forget my employer...I was actually thinking about calling up the state and asking them if I could get compensation for the darn roadrunner that keeps stealing all of my lizards that I feed to my hamster. Now I have to go buy food for him and it is quite the strain on my budget. If they would just meet me halfway, I could make ends meet.

 

[NMelkhunter]

I think that is just the type of situation that has many hunters so upset with "the system". Good thing you knew the situation but I sure feel sorry for those that would not be aware of what they were wasting their money on. However, I wouldn't be so quick to let the LO slide without a lashing. Who submits the application for them every year to get these tags? If it's the LO, then I find them as culpable as the guy trying to pawn these tags off.