Own a camp chef??????

[eurosbyRT]

Dont know if any of you know but the owner of the company is joining with many other businesses trying to get the greater canyonlands bill passes by the president just like clinton with the grand staircase,here is the address,

https://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/del-albright/massive-attack-on-utah-lands-by-outdoor-industry-association/10151145395102106

this will take away some of our hunting areas as well as recreational areas.


Skull Designs: Quality European Mounts at affordable prices

 

[BuzzH]

I own a couple camp chefs, and now that I know they support protecting public lands...I'll continue to support them. Good to see companies support the idea of public lands.

What you meant to say is this could take away your right to tear through the areas in the proposed monument on your rhino, razr, atv, motorcycle, etc.

Hunting is allowed in monuments, roads are allowed in monuments. what isnt allowed is illegal off-roading, pioneering illegal roads, etc.

 

[elks96]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-12 AT 09:39AM (MST)[p]>I own a couple camp chefs,
>and now that I know
>they support protecting public lands...I'll
>continue to support them. Good
>to see companies support the
>idea of public lands.
>
>What you meant to say is
>this could take away your
>right to tear through the
>areas in the proposed monument
>on your rhino, razr, atv,
>motorcycle, etc.
>
>Hunting is allowed in monuments, roads
>are allowed in monuments. what
>isnt allowed is illegal off-roading,
>pioneering illegal roads, etc.

Wow your tool... I am pretty certain you have never been to the area, have no idea about the extensive work that ohv users and 4x4 individuals have put into this place. You also probably are just fine with feds stepping all over the states right and the will of the people in that state. Do you not realize that these very companies are also very anti-hunting and if given the opportunity they will shut out hunting as well. There are many National monuments where hunting is illegal. And these granolas would rather see no one have access then to allow any access to any one other than mountain bikers (who also pioneer roads) rock climbers who usually leave trash and drugs behind, etc. Go ahead and support them, but when it is your area you are being pushed out of, all I will do is help them kick you down the road.


Ultimately the area in question is great, but designating it a federally managed Monument is wrong. It will take all control out of the publics hands and place the managment of the area in the hands of officials in Washington. Under BLM control, they can do much more while still protecting the area. They already have done a ton in the last few years in cooperation with OHV and 4x4 groups. This has included development of existing trails, closure of area not appropriate for vehicle use, etc. The program is working and ultimately with reasonable management by the BLM the groups will all have a say in the use of the land. Going to a National monument will only hurt some 80-90% of the user that visit the area and really only benefit a small percentage.


BTW, much of this area is considered designated routes and trails only. As a result the real issue is making sure we work in the existing system to enforce rules etc. Also there are potential other resources in the area that can be a huge draw for industry. There is Gas and Oil production, Uranium mining etc. The more we lock up and exclude these areas that are known to have potential the more expensive and limited we will be able to successful fill our energy needs. Once it is gone there is no going back. Also realize there are many Monuments that do not allow hunting, and some that only allow vehicle travel on very specific sometimes only a single road. Both Colorado National Monument and Dinosaur National Monument are this way. Heck until this last year you could not even have a gun in either.

 

[elkun]

champ chef have gave 1000s of dollars worth of thier stuff to wildlife banquets , m.d. rmef sfw, please dont forget that,,,

 

[BuzzH]

elks96,

I'm a tool?

Thats funny coming from someone that doesnt even understand the basics of Federal Land Ownership, the vast amount of case law supporting the Federal Governments right to retain/manage said lands via Acts like the Taylor Grazing Act, the Forest Reserves, and a host of other Resource policy that you ignore in your comment regarding states "rights". I strongly suggest before you spout off a bunch of bullchit about "rights" you should make sure you're talking to someone that doesnt know better. You've been too busy listening to the likes of SFW and your esteemed, but illiterate and uninformed delegates from Utah in the pursuit of taking Federal lands. Congratulations? Oh, and good luck with that!

Now that your "state rights" argument has been totally trumped by case law, acts of Congress, and a couple hundred years of the Federal Government excercising their rights to manage/own/control Federal lands we can move on to your other BS.

I have worked in the area in question, and I've seen the illegal roads all over the place as is common throughout the West in the 8 states I work. It would appear that with 380,000 miles of roads open to motorized use on JUST the National Forests, its still not enough to satisfy the "needs" of the OHV/motorized access crowd. We wont get into the hundreds of thousands of miles of open roads on BLM, State, Tribal, etc. lands. I think its also fair to note that less than 5% (around 3.7% IIRC) of the total land mass in the lower-48 is designated as wilderness/roadless. Its also a fact that nowhere in the lower-48 are you ever more than 21 miles from a road accessible via passenger vehicle.

As to the argument that hunting MAY not be allowed, I seriously doubt it. Although, I see nothing wrong with certain areas being off limits to hunting. The BLM, FS, NPS, NWR, etc. all have areas that are off limits to hunting. These areas are needed to provide sanctuary to animal populations. For the record, do you know how many acres of National Monuments allow hunting VS. not allowing hunting? Look it up.

But, since you're so big into claiming you'll lose the right to hunt in the area in question, I suggest you get your Federal Representatives and Congressmen off their whining a$$es and put them to work. Instead of pursuing the losing arguement of state rights and transfer of Federal lands to the States, you need to ask them to represent your views on hunting and reasonable access into the proposed area.

You have yourself a good day.

Oh, and one last thing, I'd like for you to provide proof that the owners of campchef are "antihunting".

Laffin'....

 

[theox]

Dont mind buzz, he drinks tons of kool aid! Dont wast your breathe with him

 

[BuzzH]

theox,

Actually believing that Utah will have any success in taking over Federal Lands isnt drinking Kool-aid?

Yeah...

 

[sagebrush]

elk96 - My experience is the younger backpack/horseback crowd will always push for less access/road closures and there is nothing you can do to reason with them. Kinda like Obamaphiles. You have an uphill battle on your hands with them working against you.

I would say we have not had a good experience down here in AZ with federal implementation and enforcement of the new Travel Management Plan in the Coconino. The feds seem to be more interested in keeping everyone camped within 30 feet of open roads than going after the few that ignore road closures with ATV's. They will be happy to go through a camp with a tape measure while parked on a road but won't put their boots on the ground in a now roadless area for enforcement. There will be some regulation that will be contrary to normal land use in a new monument and the granola crunchers hired by the Park Service for enforcement will happy to cite any family that doesn't tow the line. Restrictions on hunting and hunting areas wouldn't surprise me. Things like carrying a loaded weapon or discharging it within 1 mile of a road or designated trail. It just depends on how vocal the extreme wackjobs are when the rules are being written. Of course, you will be allowed to comment during the public comment period, but your concerns will be promptly ignored. Once they go through the effort to prepare a preliminary set of proposed rules, they never listen to any public comment after that unless you have the juice to get personnel transferred out of the area.

In my opinion, you have every right to be concerned about the actual outcome in your state. Especially when people from outside your state will be influencing and actually making the decisions for you. They believe they know what is best for you and everyone else, will be happy to ram their opinions down your throat and put the force of law behind it. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[hossblur]

>champ chef have gave 1000s of
>dollars worth of thier stuff
>to wildlife banquets ,
>m.d. rmef sfw, please dont
>forget that,,,

They gave stuff to SFW, now that would be a reason to boycott. I have a problem with monuments only because it is an end run around the legislative branch by a president. Also, I never seem to see eastern states have land locked up by the feds, INTERESTING!



"Your just jealous because _____, so you can't know anything!!"

 

[elks96]

>Dont mind buzz, he drinks tons
>of kool aid! Dont wast
>your breathe with him

I can see he is not worth the time. I love how he made all these assumptions and is incorrect on all. The first one being that I am from Utah. I am not but as a kid I spent every Easter camping in the Esclanate Monument area. There were places we used to go as a kid that we can not even get a vehicle with in 60 miles. Out favorite camp sight that used to host all my family has since been totally closed. I have family and friends in the area that sure could have used the money that the natural resources in the Escalanta could have provided and the economic boost to the community. Ultimately the land is BLM and federal, but under the BLM the state and communities can have a say in how that land is managed and how resources are developed etc. Once it goes to monument there is no real hope.

Buzz pretty much feel that unless your head is sumerged as far up your own arse as his is you have no idea what you are talking about.

I wonder how many days he has spent in the area with the BLM designating routes, picking up garbage, closing trails, helping maintain trails. Closing areas that are critical and opening areas where recreation has minimal impact? I am sure I can none... On the flip I have worked on a variety of projects in the Moab area and donated tons of hours in helping the BLm monitor and manage the area.

He does not realize that hte most recent management plan for the said area had closed over 50 miles of established roads and a ton more miles of pioneered roads. He does not realize that it is already illegal to drive off road in the area, etc. If anything we should all be calling for the BLM and feds to provide the staff necessary to monitor and patrol the area. That is the real issue! If there is no way to enforce the rules they will not be followed... Wonder if they get this through they might just throw in the lasalles, henrys, etc...

It is a states right issue when the designation can have negative impacts on the economy. They surely will not allow mining, gas exploration, uranium, etc. There is already plenty of land in Utah designated in such a manner...

 

[BuzzH]

elks96,

Keep believing this is a state rights issue...while "your" areas on MY PUBLIC LANDS continue to be designated as monuments.

Keep up the good fight.

 

[klbzdad]

I'm going to buy one tomorrow.

But, just to clarify, there are some monuments where hunting is not allowed such as Cedar Breaks where I and any other big game hunter would LOVE to have access!

 

[elks96]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-12 AT 09:52AM (MST)[p]Here is a group that I work with extensively and would urge you to consider. This group is all about the responsible use of public lands and 4x4s. It has been a key factor in maintaining public lands, roads and also working with the BLM and other entities to ensure a reasonable/responsible method are used to develop, maintain and protect our public lands.

The newsletter clearly outlines why this move is bad. The truth of the matter is that such action are part of the death of rural America as we know it. It is also interesting to note that congress has been pushed by the same groups, but they have not acted. This is an attempt to side step the entire process and get this designation done with out any say in the matter. Again this is not about protection, it is not about road-less rules, it is not about maintaining the environment, etc. It is about all our rights to recreate responsibly on our public lands. Which can and does occur even with the use of OHV vehicles. What we need is a BLM that has the funding and man power to enforce the already existing Travel plan. This would help ensure that a few bad apples will not loose privileges for all.

http://www.ufwda.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/eNews-Nov-121.pdf

 

[drawback]

Elks96, you really have the folks at Camp Chef pegged wrong.

http://www.facebook.com/events/222330367900593/

____________________________

I hunt. I fish. I VOTE.

Get the F out of SFW

 

[elks96]

See it how you want. I am not here just about camp chef, but when you read the list of the other sponsors of this letter, you will really see the group that they teamed up with on this issue. It is all backpackers, environmentalist, etc. At least 4 of the companies I found are strong supporters of Earth First, and the HSUS. While Camp Chef may not be on that same level they sure threw in with this group on this letter.

I guess I am more concerned about the whole situation than just this one company. I am not calling for a boycott of camp chef as the original poster did. I am however looking at the potential of this move and the issues it will create for all recreational users of the area and the potential future development of the resource.

I was actually surprised that Camp Chef threw in with the others...

 

[Castnshoot]

What is going on here is there are a lot of people that would like to keep the energy companies off these public lands. For many different reasons.

But, the fact is every drop of oil, cubic foot of gas, or chunk of coal on this planet will be developed and used. And sooner rather than later.

There is no political power or technology that can stop this from happening.