Pack Goat Question

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pugs

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I know this question has been discussed on this forum in the past but I thought I would ask the question once again. I am extremely interested in purchasing three or four pack goats. Does anyone have any information that they would be willing to share with me regarding this? I would like to purchase 3 or 4 young goats to train myself. The problem with this thought process is I do not know where to start. What breeds should I be looking at? What age is it best to start the training process? Is there anyone in Utah, Idaho, or Wyoming that sells pack goats? What equipment would I need to purchase? How difficult is it to train them? How much weight can a goat pack? I would really like to have some purchased in the very near future so that I can begin using them this upcoming season. Thanks in advance for the help and advise.

Pugs
 
Don't apologize for asking your questions, that's what the forums are for. Anyway, I can't answer most of your questions, but I'm interested myself.
Many years ago, my dad had a couple goats that we used for a few years. One goat was huge, about 250 lbs. and as I recall, he could pack about 70 lbs+. The other was more of an average sized pack goat at probably about 170 lbs. He could pack about 40-50 lbs.

They worked out well. I wish I could have one or two myself.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
Will you LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook! I need a friend....
 
 
I was going to post my link but somebody beat me to it.
Where to start is a good question. You need a place to keep goats. Then you need the goats. Most people get them as kids before they feed off the mother. There is disease's that can spread from the mother to the kids. I had Saanens they are the big white ones. I had Lamancha's, they were the one's that look like they don't have ears. I also had an Alpine. They were all good but the best were the Lamancha's and they were the smallest. My Saanens were over 250 pounds. The Lamanchas were about 175. The saanens carried 90 pounds down hill several times packing out elk. The lamanchas did almost that much to pack out a bull.I Would not use nubian's they are noisy.

I started taking them for walks as soon as I got them. They remember the trail very well. They are not hard to train you just take them for walks and see new things.

February is the month that kids are starting to be born. If you tell the breeder you want them to pack they will triple in price.
I don't know anyone any more that sells gear or goats. I still have 4 full packs that I made. Some day I will do it again.

If you have a question feel free to ask. Ron
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-15 AT 07:57PM (MST)[p]I too want a few goats!! Seems to be more and more restrictions on goats in NF which really sucks. I am also concerned about goats attracting grizzlies or mountain lions. Idaho, have you had any issues with either of the two?

Here is a pretty good website for goat packing equipment. http://northwestpackgoats.com/
 
I really appreciate all the suggestions and advice. I was wondering if you all could help direct me to some websites or phone numbers to people who sale new born kids. I live in Utah but am willing to travel but the closer the better would be nice. Thanks again.

Pugs
 
I've kicked the idea around several times and did a fair amount of research. The issue I can't solve is what to do with them while I'm out hunting. I don't want them tagging along with me and from what I've read it's not a good idea to leave them tied up in camp cause they'd be easy pickins for predators. Does anyone have an answer for this?

Brad
 
Goats are really pretty easy to train yourself, especially compared to a horse. I have 2 year olds that are coming along nicely. I have been taking them hiking with me since they were just a few months old. They have never needed a halter or lead, but I chose to halter train them just for the purpose of being able to tie them off peacefully if I wanted to. They are great company if you like to hike alone and they will follow you literally up anything you can get up.
If you want to buy goats for this upcoming season, you will need to buy 3 year old goats!!!! DO NOT pack goats until they are in their third year, you will ruin their backs and joints. If you want to buy young kid goats, you can often get little bucks for very cheap. I bought mine for $25 each, and a good friend got his for $10 each. His are Alpine x Saenan cross and are great looking goats as well.
My boys are Alpine cross bred. They are 2 years old and right about 150 lbs right now. They should get up to about 175-200 as they finish filling out this year. I plan to pack about 30 lbs per goat, knowing that in a pinch on easier terrain I could increase that weight. I plan to pack my boys as many years as possible and don't want to be too hard on them.
I have built my own pack saddles and panniers as well. I was able to save a couple hundred bucks by doing it myself and they turned out really good. I will start packing them dry this summer and will start with some small loads packing this fall.


Here they were a few months old...in 2013

46841102599_10201922428806250_1841272862_o.jpg

and here is fall 2014 after a day of grouse hunting.
951010460860_10205025846509753_5341255335360003217_o.jpg
 
Your question is one that I have considered a lot. I think that you will either need a buddy to let your goats hang out with at camp or you'll need to learn to hunt with them. I plan on taking mine along when I rifle hunt, but for archery they will stay either at camp if there is friends at camp or at home. There is guys that take them bowhunting, I have seen some guys that have them trained to lay down in blinds or just follow along quietly.
 
I'll try anything once, twice if i like it!!!
this is something I tried once. There used to be a guy down in Springville that was into it. He rented goats, had boothes at the outdoor shows, etc. I talked with him, and it sounded promising. I rented 3 of them for a late cow hunt to give it a try. Loaded them up with their little cross-bucks and panniers, with my lunch, rifle, etc. Off we went. Or should i say off THEY went. It was a foot race. all of them critters trying to keep ahead of the others. When i caught them and rescued my gear, i loaded them down with rocks to where they could hardly walk. then they tailed along pretty good!! Shot a big ole cow that day, though, and they packed it all out, boned of course- none of them could carry two quarters. between the 4 of us, not too bad.
So i bought 3 of them, along with the whole kit and kaboodle of equipment. they were 3 yr olds, and had been "started".
OK- here is the rub- you gotta be good with animals. any Joe that just decides that he can go out and load a bunch of stuff on a critter and wander off into outback nirvana is gonna be really disappointed. I am fair with something with a key. The animal mind and mine are way to far out of kilter.
The one time i tried to pack with them was a disaster. I ended up almost having to drag one of them back, even though I had taken his whole load off him. I left him tied in camp the next day, and he ripped the back of my tent out ( I tied him behind it to keep him out of the wind, didn't want him freezing!!)he then climbed into the tent, took a long nap on my new down bag, pee'd and pooped on my buddies gear, and made a general mess of everthing. Ever slept in a goat pee saturated bag? not good.
I am pretty sure a guy could do well, providing he has the time and temperment. But not me. My pack animals say "honda" on them.
 
>I've kicked the idea around several
>times and did a fair
>amount of research. The issue
>I can't solve is what
>to do with them while
>I'm out hunting. I don't
>want them tagging along with
>me and from what I've
>read it's not a good
>idea to leave them tied
>up in camp cause they'd
>be easy pickins for predators.
>Does anyone have an answer
>for this?
>
>Brad


I used to leave mine in camp when bow hunting. They bawl for a little while but settle down. Now that we have wolves that might be a little riskier. I hunted with mine with a rifle and I killed several elk that I would not have had a chance with if it were not for them. I even used mine to hunt ducks.
 
Goats are the most wonderful pack animal. They must be used in groups, as they are a herd animal. Don't think of them as a mule or horse, they are an aid to back-packing.

I have about 15 goats, of which only about 5 are pack animals. It is really no big deal to train them.

They need to be bonded to you, the best way to bond them is bottle feed them.

There is a website/forum. www.thegoatspot.net/forum and www.packgoatcentral.com

Caprine Supply sells packs, as do other folks, just do a search. www.northwestpackgoats.com and others. There is a guy in Idaho that sells aluminum pack frames...Owyhee

Fer critters that wants ta eat ya (predators), get a portable fence energizer and put it around your camp. Weight is not a big deal, as they are the ones carrying it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PATRIOT-PS5...704?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c7d10c98

There are at least 1 magazine (goattracks magazine)and 2 books on the subject
http://www.amazon.com/The-Pack-Goat-John-Mionczynski/dp/0976255405
BTW, he does not like Nubians, and neither do I.

and
http://www.caprinesupply.com/produc...-practical-goatpacking-i-by-carolyn-eddy.html

The only thing that I disagree with that was said is that I think that they should be fed off their mom...although they can/do get diseases from their mom. They also get immunities. Tis just my preference. Oh yeah....leave their testicles alone for at least 6 months, otherwise they can get Urinary calculai...their urinary tract has to develop correctly in their youth http://www.definitions.net/definition/urinary calculi

The dairy breeds are what you want. I prefer LaManchas.

John 14:6
 
One of my Saanens is the cover picture for the book Practical goat packing. I have several other pictures in there and I helped to write a piece of the hunting section.
 
>I really appreciate all the suggestions
>and advice. I was wondering
>if you all could help
>direct me to some websites
>or phone numbers to people
>who sale new born kids.
>I live in Utah but
>am willing to travel but
>the closer the better would
>be nice. Thanks again.
>
>Pugs

Sending you a PM
 
Like all animals, a goat's qualification to be a packer is based both on conformation and personality. I think they are less sensitive than horses. I have three. One is a bit stand offish, but he does well in the mountains and with the other goats. He just wants to be a bit stuck up. The other two are as friendly as any dog. I've gone through six to end up with these three. You don't have to keep one very long to know.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-15 AT 07:50AM (MST)[p]I bought 3 from Scott @ Summit Pack Goats in Nebraska (402) 870-0211. They are 3 to 4 year olds and already trained. Once you get them home and they get used to you they will follow you all around. I have one who is a little lazy he is my biggest goat, he is a Sannen breed. My most loyal one is also a Sannen. And my littlest goat that is the beet workhorse is a Alpine.
There is getting to be restrictions on where you can take them. I packed them into the Windrivers and had to get 2 different stock permits, because we crossed into another forest service district. We could not go to the north end of Windrivers the forest service has restricted goats there. They think domestic goats will transmit disease to big horn sheep. I personally doubt that my goats will rub up against big horns!!
I have a horse trailer and also will put a truck shell on my truck and just load them in the back to haul them.
In the back country I take the pack saddles off them, and take them out with me hunting, rather then leaving them in camp. If your hunting were there is mountain goats, other wildlife can't distinguish between a mountain goat and a pack goat. They don't spook game. I also set up an electric fence around camp.
They are easy to keep I feed them hay fines. Find a guy who sales hay cubes and they will have fines that come off the cubes. They don't like the rain much. So you need a simple shelter. I have a metal carport for my goats. Trim there feet. There is a guy in Evanston Wyoming who is very knows about goats and he also rents them.
Hope this helps send me a pm. If you want.
 
Just a word about getting newborns. Even if they don't nurse the mother goat, they need to get the first milk (colostrum). This contains antibodies against all the diseases the mother has been exposed to/ vaccinated against. If they don't get it, they usually die. I am sure any reputable breeder knows this and will milk the mothers to obtain the colostrum and feed it to the kids. They only need to get it for the first 24-48 hours, then milk replacer is OK.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I am not a goat guy but I do love wild sheep.
One caution I will throw out there is the threat of domestic goats passing diseases to wild sheep. Close goat exposure to wild sheep can trigger a deadly sheep die off that could take decades to reverse.
 
I had pack goat for about 10 years. Great time when all goes right. But also had a few trips go south because of the goats. It takes alot of time and dedication to keep the in shape and ready for the trail. I agree with Idaoron the lamancha was the smartest and easiest goat we had. Almost like a dog and easy to train. If you get goats I still have some pack gear I'd let go cheap. Have fun and good luck!
 
There has been speculation about goats possibly passing disease to wild sheep. While it is confirmed that domestic sheep carry disease that wild sheep are susceptible to, I am unaware of any empirical evidence that confirms that goats are a threat. Common sense would indicate we give the mountain goats and sheep a wide berth, solely because of perceptions about it.

There is a move in many regions to close the national forests to goats based on speculation and fears. It is a precedent that will no doubt bleed over into restrictions in other areas. Safe guards based on real evidence make sense. Based on speculation and fear, not at all.
 
The pneumonia concerns for bighorn sheep in relation to Goats are legit, in the sense that is is "technically" possible for a goat to spread a bacterial pneumonia, most likely a pasteurella bacteria, to a bighorn sheep.
Now, there is pasteurella vaccinations that can and should be given to domestic goats to help prevent the disease from setting in to your goats, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that they will not be carrying the disease without symptoms.
The real fact to consider though, is that it would take direct nose-to-nose contact from a domestic goat to a wild sheep for the sheep to contract the bacteria. There is some people who claim that a breeze could spread the disease, but a lot of work has been done with captured bighorns, and the only time spread from domestic sheep to the captured bighorns was when they were allowed direct contact. Even when pens were kept as close as 10 yards apart there was no spread of bacteria after months, but once the animals were placed into direct contact the bighorns all died.
The chances of my pack goats to wander anywhere close to a bighorn would be less than highly unlikely. My goats will rarely get more than 5-10 yards away from me while on the trail and maybe 20-30 yards while free ranging in my camp. There is the off chance that a predator might chase the goat away from my camp, but he will probably then be wolf food long before he can mingle with the bighorns.

I think the biggest threat would be areas where the bighorn sheep are highly de-threatened by people. Sheep seem to "tame down" easier than most wildlife, and it is common to see people getting very close to sheep in some places, glacier natnl park is the first that comes to mind. If pack goats were used in places like this, that is the only way I could honestly see them being any threat at all, and even then extremely unlikely to spread bacteria to the sheep.

Wow, that was a lot more than I intended to write haha.
 

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