Please! Enough is Enough!

joesikora

Long Time Member
Messages
3,313
Hawkeye please let this go!

It's not worth the sacrifice of your well being, to continue this fight, or whatever your calling it now!
No one in 3 months or so will care one way or the other about these issues or the personal sacrifices you've made with your business and your family, fighting this,

SFW has agreed, starting in 2017- 2021 to give 100% of the $5 fees to the DWR and have it be accounted for.

That's what you told me is the only thing you ever wanted. Well they agreed to it, YOU WON!

No one is going to make SFW go back to the beginning years of the Expo and open their books for all the prior years! I don't believe there's a law that would allow that to even happen. If there was you surely would have exercised that law by now.

You told me in our conversations. At the beginning you wanted some questions answered from SFW,
and you were told no! You persisted and finally they/he told you to go pound sand, and that was the start of this.
Recently you volunteered to help RMEF get the Expo from SFW, and that failed, and here we are!

Now you say, you are literally going to research and write a 26 day expose' about the faqs that DWR posted as frequently asked questions, just to prove them wrong?

Please brother stop! This is not normal behavior. I'm asking this as a friend.
Hyper foucusing, although feels good to that person at that time, the effects it has on you and your love ones can be irreversible, and after you come out of it and see things clearly it's too late!

Please
Your friend
Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
I'll second that. After a couple thousand negative posts about SFW and DWR...OLD
 
Joe, What happened to your super mediation skills? Is this how it works, you just ask one side to stop? Ha Ha, thought so, what a joke you are!

YBO, You have my respect but it's old to you because you make a living from taking big money guys out on the best, most expensive hunts available. If you were a common Joe, you might not think the same way.

Joey





"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Hawkeye. I say keep it up . We need to ratchet up the pressure. Thanks for your efforts
Wes
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-16 AT 06:15PM (MST)[p]+1 Sage and Wes. If Uncle Joe thinks SFW plans to do what they mentioned when the new signed contract still allows them to do anything they want with the money with no oversight or audit, I would ask him if he'd care to buy some swamp land I have in AZ that I need to unload. The easiest thing for Joe to do is to skip all threads dealing with SFW because this is far from over and he's been no help here from the start!
 
Joe, respectfully, just letting this go is why we have the cesspool we have now.

Thanks to guys like Hawk and all of those involved in this.

It is normal, when a guy has had enough he has two choices, continue to take it or work to right the wrong.

I told the CAT almost 20 years ago, we'd get to this point and here we are.

SFW isn't going to account for any more than they are right now.

Keep the pressure on.


"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
HUNT"
Finn 2/14/16
 
Joe,
It just got going. After 7 years, we finally have some traction. Keep with it until the end of the month. It's only going to get good around points 9 or 10. So keep posted people. Keep sharing.
 
>Joe, respectfully, just letting this go
>is why we have the
>cesspool we have now.
>
>Thanks to guys like Hawk and
>all of those involved in
>this.
>
>It is normal, when a guy
>has had enough he has
>two choices, continue to take
>it or work to right
>the wrong.
>
>I told the CAT almost 20
>years ago, we'd get to
>this point and here we
>are.
>
>SFW isn't going to account for
>any more than they are
>right now.
>
>Keep the pressure on.
>
>
>"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
>
>MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
>HUNT"
>Finn 2/14/16

+1
 
I sure hope that your right!

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
Hawkeye,

Thanks for all your efforts on this issue. The recent contract debacle has brought national attention to this issue. Many of the other websites I frequent have SFW threads going as well, and SFW is taking a beating. It sounds like many of national organizations are distancing themselves from SFW and I have to believe their membership numbers are dropping. The information you have provided over the years is finally paying off. My personal belief is it's going to take a new governor to clean this mess up in Utah. But thanks to the tireless efforts of guys like you, the information is out there and it's only a matter of time.
 
>Joe, respectfully, just letting this go
>is why we have the
>cesspool we have now.
>
>Thanks to guys like Hawk and
>all of those involved in
>this.
>
>It is normal, when a guy
>has had enough he has
>two choices, continue to take
>it or work to right
>the wrong.
>
>I told the CAT almost 20
>years ago, we'd get to
>this point and here we
>are.
>
>SFW isn't going to account for
>any more than they are
>right now.
>
>Keep the pressure on.
>
>
>"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
>
>MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
>HUNT"
>Finn 2/14/16

That's 20 Points & Countin ww!:D






[font color="blue"]"I Don't get No Sleep!I Don't get No Peace!"

Hey Founder?

Did You get Permission From shotgun1 before you made your Last
Post?
[/font]
 
Joe respectfully Hawkeye has done a great job and he has the support of alot of people. And yes letting things go Is the reason things have been hidden and brushed under the rug.. and yes Hawkeye and all the others forced SFW's hands.

But sfw does not run the state and I am glad people like Hawkeye and others are putting and end to it
 
Joe would be singing a different tune if he lived in a state that had anything worth pursuing by SFW.


Hawkeye, I and many others greatly appreciate every ounce of your efforts.
As i'm sure you well know Idaho is under constant attack by
SFW and greedy politicans, keeping this in the spotlight
has played a very important role by informing many of us
and promting action.
You damn sure have my full support.
 
Joe-

I told you that I would let this go if the groups would earmark the vast majority of the $5 application fees to actual conservation projects and account for the use of those funds. While I am frustrated that we know little about the nearly $10 million raised to date, you are correct that I said I would drop this issue if the groups would fix the problem moving forward.

So tell me Joe, has the problem been fixed? Have the groups committed to using the vast majority of the funds for actual conservation? And have the groups committed to allowing an annual audit of those funds? You stated in your post that ?SFW has agreed, starting in 2017- 2021 to give 100% of the $5 fees to the DWR and have it be accounted for.? What the basis for that statement? Did someone from SFW tell you that? Are those commitments documented in the rule or the contract? Or is that just a commitment from the groups similar to when Don Peay told the public that ?it is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground? in order to get the tags approved?

I am asking because I honestly don't know. Let's look at what we do know. SFW and MDF released the following statements regarding the Expo Tag application fees:

?One dollar and fifty-cents of each $5 application fee is retained for the Utah Division of Wildlife and its wildlife conservation programs, and $3.50 evenly split between SFW and MDF, all of which is used to bolster wildlife conservation throughout the state of Utah benefiting multiple species. This commitment to utilize 100% of the application fee revenue to support Utah Conservation Initiatives included in the contract that SFW recently signed with the State to distribute expo permits from 2017 to 2021. We will annually disclose how these funds are utilized to benefit Utah wildlife. See http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/23283.html

So what does this mean? According to this statement, there will still be a 70/30 split of the Expo Tag revenue with the DWR receiving $1.50 and the groups retaining $3.50 from each $5 application. How will the 70% be used by the groups? According to the statement, the groups will use 100% of these funds to ?to support Utah Conservation Initiatives.? At first glance, that sounds great. But given the history, any reasonable person would ask what is a ?Utah Conservation Initiative?? Once again, according to this statement, the term ?Utah Conservation Initiative? is apparently spelled out in the contract between the DWR and SFW. Finally, according to this statement, SFW states that the groups ?will annually disclose how these funds are utilized to benefit Utah wildlife.? So what does this mean? Will the DWR perform an annual audit like they do with conservation permit funds? Or will the groups prepare their own report? Will the report address both the 30% turned over to the DWR for its wildlife conservation programs and the 70% retained by the groups to support ?Utah Conservation Initiatives?? The statement is silent on those issues.

Let's look at the contract to see if it addresses these questions. The DWR released a signed copy of the Expo Tag contract, which can be found at the following link: http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/expo_permit_contract.pdf

So what does the contract say about use of the Expo Tag revenues? Pursuant to Section 7.b, 30% of the revenues will be used for Division approved projects that benefit protected wildlife. I like that language a lot. I just wish it was more than 30% -- like 90 or 100%.

So what does the contract say about the 70% that is supposedly retained by the groups for ?Utah Conservation Initiative?? Pursuant to Section 7.c, those revenues must be used for ?policies, programs, projects and personnel that support wildlife conservation initiatives in Utah.? What does that mean? SFW/MDF can obviously use some of that money to fund projects. Can the SFW/MDF pay salaries to SFW/MDF ?personnel? with that money? Can they lobby with that money in an effort to affect ?policies?? Did the parties simply draft a provision that authorizes them to do what they were already doing? So tell me Joe, what exactly is a ?wildlife conservation initiative?? Why didn't the parties define that term in the contract? As a lawyer, I always define critical contract terms unless I am purposefully trying to leave the term ambiguous. I am guessing that is what happened here. I have asked for some clarification from some of my contacts but I have not heard back yet. Do you know what that term means? Does anybody know what this means?

It is also critical to point out that there is no audit provision for the 70% -- or for the 30% for that matter. And the annual report to be provided by the groups to the DWR only covers the 30% that has to be spent on approved projects. See Contract, Section 7.e. The groups have issued statement stating that they will "annually disclose how these funds are utilized to benefit Utah wildlife" and the DWR's FAQ's states that "SFW and its partner, MDF, have committed to annually disclose how 100 percent of these funds are used to benefit Utah wildlife." However, I don't see anything in the rule or the contract that requires any accountability or transparency with the 70% retained by the groups.

Given the history on this issue, I guess you could say that I am a little leery of believing that the money is going to be used for actual conservation projects and accounted for. If that was intended, then why didn't the groups and the DWR simply spell that out in the contract? Why isn't there an audit provision or even a reporting provision for the full 100% of the revenues in the contract? The public has been burned before by getting statements promising accountability or transparency without documenting those commitments in the rule or the contract. Perhaps we should all email the DWR and the groups and ask: (1) What exactly was agreed to by the parties? (2) What portion of the money will be earmarked for actual conservation projects? (3) What is a ?wildlife conservation initiative?? (4) Why didn't the DWR and SFW define that term in the contract? (5) What portion of the application revenues will be audited by the DWR or reported on by the groups? I am happy to listen to any information or clarifications that help answer these questions.

So returning to your original question Joe, I will drop this issue just as soon as the problem is fixed. As it stands right now, I don't see how the latest contract and statements by the groups fix the problem. If I am missing something, please let me know. Reach out to your contacts within SFW and see if they can answer these questions. You are correct that I would rather spend my time on family, work and hunting. But as you know, I am committed to seeing this issue through until it is resolved.

-Hawkeye-
 
Keep on fighting the good fight. When crap is exposed, people notice. The more it is seen, the less it can be ignored.
 
>Joe would be singing a different
>tune if he lived in
>a state that had anything
>worth pursuing by SFW.
>
>
>Hawkeye, I and many others greatly
>appreciate every ounce of your
>efforts.
>As i'm sure you well know
>Idaho is under constant attack
>by
>SFW and greedy politicans, keeping this
>in the spotlight
>has played a very important role
>by informing many of us
>
>and promting action.
>You damn sure have my full
>support.

Sincerely-Idaho sportsman
 
Hawkeye, you need to get a followup news release by the news agency that bought the issue to the public and have them ask questions. See if they will try to get the answers you brought up about the contract. It will be far harder for SFW and the wildlife board, that awarded the contract, to ignore a further in depth news investigation. The press will make it public if they are ignored or shined off.
You as an individual will get ignored at best or even lied to at worse. That wildlife committee will fear information getting out to the general public more then anything else and sooner or later some politicians will get involved, even if it is only to further their own careers by demanding a investigation by the Utah state government.

RELH
 
I suspect that Hawkeye couldn't stop this movement now even if he tried! He's been the catalyst that put it back in the limelight, but it's taken on a life of its own and it's way beyond his posts on this forum. While we appreciate your concern for his welfare, he certainly isn't spending any more energy or time away from his family fighting this mess than Don, Bryan, Jon, Miles and others spent creating it, but I notice you don't tell them Enough is Enough!
 
First things first. Many of us appreciate your efforts Hawkeye. If it wasn't for you and others id have no idea this was going on. I will not support sfw now. I wanna know what they did with our wildlife a money. Anyway keep it up!

Joe if u meant what u wrote u would have sent a private message not a post on a public forum. Sounds to me like more of a call out than a plea from a friend
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-16 AT 08:42AM (MST)[p]Hey Joe! Why don't you go ask all the great guys that were in the Cody, WY Chapter of SFW why they pulled out and told Don to go take a flying leap. I'll give you a little hint. UTSFW wanted the biggest share of the money they were making in their fund raisers and when they finally asked Bob Wharff, Executive Dir. of WYSFW, where the money was going and an audit to show them, they were told to go pound sand because it wasn't going to happen. Now that's a good one when that big Chapter within the organization can't even find out where their money is going. Are you now getting an idea that just maybe the organization isn't on the up and up even with the members?
 
I was tempted the last time Joe posted to Hawkeye about his mediation in the matter to bring up that he seemed pretty one-sided. He was lightly reprimanding Hawkeye for his comments on these issues online, while not saying anything to those that were personally attacking Hawkeye--even questioning his integrity and ethics.

I decided to not step into the fray as I wasn't involved and wasn't much of my business. However, when someone puts a post like this out there in a public forum, he makes it all our business. Joe, you are not an independent party here, your posts prove that loud and clear. I'm not saying you are a SFW plant, but it's clear you support their position from these shots at Hawkeye.

There is no doubt that SFW and other people that support their ability to stick it to the average hunter would just like to see this stop. But maybe the average joe hunter is finally seeing the bigger picture and is fed up?

I heard similar pleas to these 6 and 7 years ago regarding stream access in Utah. Several people, including state officials, made pleas to many to just let it go...it wasn't worth the fight. These also were people that supported screwing the public that own the water and the fish. Roughly 2,700 miles of public water disagrees, and the fight continues today.

Hopefully this fight doesn't stop, ever, until the issue is fixed. And the issue is not fixed simply when SFW acquiesces to public pressure. The real problem lies within the State.
 
Stay on them hawkeye, you have done a great job. These clowns tried to come to Arizona before for some free money. The sfw scares me a lot and the less respect everyone has for them the better.
 
10 years of having a dog in the fight but with no traction... Keep up the work and WE have to keep sending info to our state reps and dwr. They are trying a massive PR for getting everyone to believe them.

Don't by into it. The way things are going in this state we need every $ we can on the ground to help!

I have heard that alot of the SFW people are sick and tired of being dragged through the mud or having to stick their necks out on behalf of an org that wont make a statement. So they have decided to not come on here anymore..

I hope that the flashlight that has been shown on this issue will get brighter and brighter...

KEEP UP YOUR END HAWKEYE, I will help when I can.

Who cares if a FEW are sick of hearing it, IT NEEDS TO BE HEARD!!!!!
 
I'd like to say thank you once again to Hawkeye, and all the others who support transparency, and Accountability. Joe, exactly where is YOUR dog in this fight ? You do seem to me like a sfw guy.... What state are you a member in ? When you claim naivety it gets really comical at times.
.
. sincerely
.
. a

UTAH SPORTSMAN
. FOR OVER 50 years
. Jeff
 
Keep at it Hawkeye. You have support from many that are affected.
Many others along with myself, fully support you and will continue this fight along side you until this is resolved properly.





Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
Yes, please keep it up. Your replies have helped me formulate replies to elected officials email's. We have to keep the pressure on now. The DWR is making noise but I think it will take much more pressure to crack it open. There is too much to hide of what has been apparently done in the past to open this up without pressure.
 
So Joe I have a couple of very simple question for you.

You have talked to both sides on this issue (your statements) so where do you stand on it? 1) Do you now think that SFW/DWR were on the up and up on all that happened with the RFP process and 2) do you think SFW has accounted for all the money they have received from the 200 expo tags over the last 10 years??

If the answer to number 2 is yes please post the numbers.

Also a few days ago you where mad enough to spit blood but never posted (that I seen) what it was about. You were waiting for permission or something from someone or something like that. I might have missed why so if I did would you post it again or refer me to the post. If not please post up what had you so fired up.
 
Thanks for the kind comments and pat on the back but there have been many people involved in this effort. I appreciate everyone who has rolled up their sleeves and pitched in to share this story. We have not resolved anything yet but we have brought some attention to the problem.

Have any of you heard directly from friends with SFW as to how the latest announcement and contract supposedly changed things from their perspective. As stated in Post #15 above, I don't see any substantive changes in the contract or rule other than the reference to "Conservation Initiatives" which is not defined. I hope this is not another smoke screen.

-Hawkeye-
 
Hawkeye,

To me this is simply a play on words. Nothing has changed. This reminds me of the Bill Clinton and what the definition of is is.

It's a way to say taking a friend to dinner was done in the name of conservation. Giving a political sheep hunt is conservation. Even paying for a "consultant" to buy a vacation home could be considered conservation (via personnel salary).

It reminds me of the wizard of OZ. just ignore the little man behind the curtain and keep your focus on the great and powerful SFW.

The more they dig in the more pathetic this looks from the outside. That being said...IMO, Utah DWR and SFW will capitulate to some small demand but in the end the Utah public and wildlife will still take it in the shots.
 
Folk's, keep one thing in mind. SFW today, is not SFW of the past. Some of the key players that were in on starting the Expo, making key decisions within SFW, influencing key DWR decisions have moved on to other adventures. A few are still there, maybe not with as much influence as the past.

I have been told John Larsen is a good man. Give him a chance to correct past wrong doing. He should not be judged for others work in the past. Just saying ......
 
Right, because the two former presidents of SFW are now on the Wildlife Board making decisions to benefit us sportsmen. Don Peay and Ryan Benson, our lobbyists, are still on the board for SFW. So not a lot has changed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-16 AT 12:54PM (MST)[p]8mmMag-

I agree with your assessment of Jon Larson. Based upon a couple of minor conversations that I had with him, I like him. He seems like a good guy. However, this problem is result of the actions (and inaction) of the DWR, SFW and MDF over many years. If SFW is going to turn the corner and change for the better then the proof should be in the pudding. Right?

Look at SFW recent proposal to the DWR -- did they offer to increase the amount earmarked for approved conservation projects above 30%? No. If SFW wanted to address the public's concerns on this issue they could have made certain committments in their proposal.

Look at the recent press release issued by SFW and the contract signed with the DWR, did the groups make any substantive changes to benefit conservation and public accountability. The answer to that questions is still unclear. The groups agreed to earmark the 70% for "policies, programs, projects and personnel that supports conservation initiatives in Utah." So what does this mean? What exactly is a "conservation initiative"? Why wasn't this terms spelled out and defined in the contract? How can the money be spent under this new contract language? Did the groups just include this flowery language in the contract in an effort to the public off their backs and so they can say that 100% of the money is going to conservation without changing their behavior? Why does the contract require the groups to report on the 30% earmarked for approved projects but not the 70% earmarked for "conservation initiatives"? I don't know the answers to these questions and SFW, MDF and the DWR seem to be pretty quiet.

I guess what I am saying is SFW will be judged by what they have done in the past and what they are doing today. If they wanted to fix the transparency and accountability problems, they could do so overnight. However, they don't even recognize the problem and they are frustrated that the public does not appreciate what they are doing for us and wildlife. Until that attitude changes, it will continue to be a rocky road.

-Hawkeye-
 
>Right, because the two former presidents
>of SFW are now on
>the Wildlife Board making decisions
>to benefit us sportsmen. Don
>Peay and Ryan Benson, our
>lobbyists, are still on the
>board for SFW. So not
>a lot has changed.


From all that I could find out from current SFW members That I spoke with, Don Peay has ben put on a short leash, he does not run as free as in the past. SO I am told????
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-16
>AT 12:54?PM (MST)

>
>8mmMag-
>
>I agree with your assessment of
>Jon Larson. Based upon
>a couple of minor conversations
>that I had with him,
>I like him. He
>seems like a good guy.
> However, this problem is
>result of the actions (and
>inaction) of the DWR, SFW
>and MDF over many years.
> If SFW is going
>to turn the corner and
>change for the better then
>the proof should be in
>the pudding. Right?
>
>Look at SFW recent proposal to
>the DWR -- did they
>offer to increase the amount
>earmarked for approved conservation projects
>above 30%? No.
>If SFW wanted to address
>the public's concerns on this
>issue they could have made
>certain committments in their proposal.
>
>
>Look at the recent press release
>issued by SFW and the
>contract signed with the DWR,
>did the groups make any
>substantive changes to benefit conservation
>and public accountability. The
>answer to that questions is
>still unclear. The groups
>agreed to earmark the 70%
>for "policies, programs, projects and
>personnel that supports conservation initiatives
>in Utah.
" So what
>does this mean? What
>exactly is a "conservation initiative"?
> Why wasn't this terms
>spelled out and defined in
>the contract? How can
>the money be spent under
>this new contract language?
>Did the groups just include
>this flowery language in the
>contract in an effort to
>the public off their backs
>and so they can say
>that 100% of the money
>is going to conservation without
>changing their behavior? Why
>does the contract require the
>groups to report on the
>30% earmarked for approved projects
>but not the 70% earmarked
>for "conservation initiatives"? I
>don't know the answers to
>these questions and SFW, MDF
>and the DWR seem to
>be pretty quiet.
>
>I guess what I am saying
>is SFW will be judged
>by what they have done
>in the past and what
>they are doing today.
>If they wanted to fix
>the transparency and accountability problems,
>they could do so overnight.
> However, they don't even
>recognize the problem and they
>are frustrated that the public
>does not appreciate what they
>are doing for us and
>wildlife. Until that attitude
>changes, it will continue to
>be a rocky road.
>
>-Hawkeye-


I agree with you Sir, many years of poor control and accountability by the DWR, SFW, and MDF to the public. And yes, they should be accountable to the public. Since Utah wildlife belongs to the residents of Utah and all who pay their taxes here. Not rich people who fly in for their yearly tag and donation.

But lets just be totally honest about the whole thing, a hell of a lot of money has changed hands for many years. And I have no doubt, someone or a few have benefited from some of this money in ways the public would not agree with.

When the Fox is Guarding the Hen house, anything can and will happen !!! Money corrupts even the best people !!
 
Don on a short leash? Ha. I would like to see somebody tell him that. From SFW's website (http://sfw.net/about/):

SFW Leadership

SFW Executive Leadership


Jon Larson ? Chief Executive Officer
Troy Justensen ? Vice President
Chris Carling ? Chief Marketing Officer
Bryce Pilling ? Secretary

SFW Board of Directors

Dave Woodhouse, Chairman
Kevin Pritchett, Vice Chairman
Rusty Aiken
Ryan Benson
Don Peay
Brayden Richmond
Kurt Wood

Founder

Don Peay

-Hawkeye-
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-16
>>AT 12:54?PM (MST)

>>
>>8mmMag-
>>
>>I agree with your assessment of
>>Jon Larson. Based upon
>>a couple of minor conversations
>>that I had with him,
>>I like him. He
>>seems like a good guy.
>> However, this problem is
>>result of the actions (and
>>inaction) of the DWR, SFW
>>and MDF over many years.
>> If SFW is going
>>to turn the corner and
>>change for the better then
>>the proof should be in
>>the pudding. Right?
>>
>>Look at SFW recent proposal to
>>the DWR -- did they
>>offer to increase the amount
>>earmarked for approved conservation projects
>>above 30%? No.
>>If SFW wanted to address
>>the public's concerns on this
>>issue they could have made
>>certain committments in their proposal.
>>
>>
>>Look at the recent press release
>>issued by SFW and the
>>contract signed with the DWR,
>>did the groups make any
>>substantive changes to benefit conservation
>>and public accountability. The
>>answer to that questions is
>>still unclear. The groups
>>agreed to earmark the 70%
>>for "policies, programs, projects and
>>personnel that supports conservation initiatives
>>in Utah.
" So what
>>does this mean? What
>>exactly is a "conservation initiative"?
>> Why wasn't this terms
>>spelled out and defined in
>>the contract? How can
>>the money be spent under
>>this new contract language?
>>Did the groups just include
>>this flowery language in the
>>contract in an effort to
>>the public off their backs
>>and so they can say
>>that 100% of the money
>>is going to conservation without
>>changing their behavior? Why
>>does the contract require the
>>groups to report on the
>>30% earmarked for approved projects
>>but not the 70% earmarked
>>for "conservation initiatives"? I
>>don't know the answers to
>>these questions and SFW, MDF
>>and the DWR seem to
>>be pretty quiet.
>>
>>I guess what I am saying
>>is SFW will be judged
>>by what they have done
>>in the past and what
>>they are doing today.
>>If they wanted to fix
>>the transparency and accountability problems,
>>they could do so overnight.
>> However, they don't even
>>recognize the problem and they
>>are frustrated that the public
>>does not appreciate what they
>>are doing for us and
>>wildlife. Until that attitude
>>changes, it will continue to
>>be a rocky road.
>>
>>-Hawkeye-
>
>
>I agree with you Sir, many
>years of poor control and
>accountability by the DWR, SFW,
>and MDF to the public.
>And yes, they should be
>accountable to the public. Since
>Utah wildlife belongs to the
>residents of Utah and all
>who pay their taxes here.
>Not rich people who fly
>in for their yearly tag
>and donation.
>
>But lets just be totally honest
>about the whole thing, a
>hell of a lot of
>money has changed hands for
>many years. And I have
>no doubt, someone or a
>few have benefited from
>some of this money in
>ways the public would not
>agree with.
>
>When the Fox is Guarding the
>Hen house, anything can and
>will happen !!! Money corrupts
>even the best people !!
>


WRONg WRONG WRONG!!!!!

Not poor accountability. THis entire thing was set up the EXACT way it is today. It was intentionally set up with no accountability. It was intentionally set up without any thought as to the public good. This wasn't oversight, or accidental. THE DON, did what he does best, enriches himself at the public trough. If the opposite was true wouldn't $FW have gone broke by now? If they were truly inept, with little business sense how have they managed to expand like they have. There is no "benefit of the doubt" to be given after all these years. $FW isn't deaf, they hear whats going on, they know the voices against them, THEY DONT GIVE A SHIZZ! The honest truth of the matter is they never did, they just had excellent PR, and one of the best lobbyists in the state. While you and I now look and shake our heads at what we let happen, THE DON et al, planned for this decades ago, and made themselves Teflon by infiltrating the decision makers. They are currently Judge, Jury and excecutioner, and if you don't like it, HELL they just gave themselves a 10 year contract, HOW DID THAT TASTE?
See folks like THE DON aren't like you and I. You care about your reputation. You care about your good name, you care about your community, and you care about your future. Guys like THE DON, care about themselves. We are left to figure out how to fix it, THE DON hasn't missed a paycheck, or a high dollar hunt, and won't ever.
Over a year ago, JMO told me in a personal message to back off, give it some time, "the old guys were gone and there was new leadership". The same line of crap just spewed. It doesn't take that long. Tommorow $FW leadership could call a press conference, FSTOP I am sure would cover it(he is there in house propagandist), and announce 100% would go to wildlife, and Ernst and Young(insert accountant here) would be auditing the books and their findings would be published on Ernst and YOungs website so as to avoid any accusations of fixing the books. This can happen tomorrow. IT WONT, because all the of the negative things we believe about them....ARE TRUE. SO AGAIN, HOW DID THAT TASTE?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 

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